Building A Small Village Shop - Cost

[TommoPhysicist]

Again, not the OPs question, he is asking about sending money to his in laws to open a shop, not about opening a shop for his wife and him being there.

If he sends money he will have no control over how it is spent, or if they even bother to build in the first place.

Seen guys send money to have houses for retirement build, most never goes to the house. One German was sending money for 3 years, came to look at his new home and found 6 concrete poles.

Never heard of anyone getting what they think they are paying for. Come on there must be someone who has sent money to family and the money was actually spent on what it was meant for. Jim

Just goes to show that you cant generalise and each situation needs to be thought through carefullyon its own merits with lots of questioning and observation first.

SantiSuk

you have posted nothing to indicate Jim is wrong in any way, you have no direct experience, only an opinion.

Give it a go, give them 500kbht to set up a shop, see how long it lasts. At 2kbht a month that should last them 20 years, sitting on their bums.

From my experience, Jim is entirely right.

Giving away huge amounts of money to front a 'bogus' business is completely pointless.

Edited September 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[rgs2001uk]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

None of my business and if I am wrong please say so.

I assume you have set up a proper company and have a work permit that allows you to make deliveries, taxes being paid etc?

[jamescollister]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

way to much generalization there jim

Not really, if the in laws had wanted a house shop they stick out a table and sell things, no real investment required and I have yet to hear of a farang sending money to set something up and it worked.

If the in laws were go getters and had a real interest in doing a business, they would already have a business.

Happy to be corrected by others who have sent money to set up small businesses and they worked, but seen the tractor deals, farang buys tractor, in laws will live happy ever after on the income. 6 months later tractor is rusting in a field or has been sold. etc etc.

Think if you don't work for it yourself, it's easy come easy go. Jim

But in the OPs original post Jim we learn that his GFs parents are farmers, but are getting too old for the fields. They prefer farming to running a shop, presumably, but now they need to find something else to fill their time.

If the alternative were just giving them some money to sit on their bums I would prefer to give them something to do. The points about giving stuff away free is a good point though. I would not want to be funding free-loaders in the village. My village is different and is a bit more affluent than the ones stuck way out in the sticks, so a well-thought out shop could work well (with passing trade on the main road too). My in-laws make a subsistence living from both farming and selling bagged curries in the local markets in the evening (mother and sisters are good Issaan cooks). They are no fools - they give nothing away for free except maybe the odd bit of unsold food.

Just goes to show that you cant generalise and each situation needs to be thought through carefullyon its own merits with lots of questioning and observation first.

Steve you are there to see, would you send money if you were living in the UK. If my in laws were running a small shop and had for a few years and needed money to expand, different story.

These are farmers who think if we get a shop all life will be easy.

As you say your in laws are hard workers, but would you think of giving them money to open a beauty shop or internet cafe, when they have been farming all their life. Jim

[Richie1971]

Thanks for all the helpful and not so helpful ideas.

I just want to give them something to stop them from breaking their back in the fields all day - I have been with their daughter 7 years and although times were hard at the start I am now in a postion to help them out.

I don't need to make a profit and what they do with it is up to them, I have never been asked for any money from them which in part made up my mind to help them out or at least give them an opportunity to help themselves.

If it all goes to <deleted>, so be it - but I won't finance anything else again

I know about the family/locals etc asking for credit etc but this is something they'll have to manage

If not a shop can anyone suggest anything else? I'm not giving them a lump sum of cash and saying do what you want because having a wad of cash (substantial in the village) it is far too tempting to find more 'pressing' or more attractive priorities.

[TommoPhysicist]

If not a shop can anyone suggest anything else? I'm not giving them a lump sum of cash and saying do what you want because having a wad of cash (substantial in the village) it is far too tempting to find more 'pressing' or more attractive priorities.

Open yourself a Bangkok bank account with Internet banking.

Transfer 2-3K a month into their account.

You can't give them a lump sum, as they have no money management skills.

You can't set them up in a business, as they have no money or business management skills.

I doubt they can even read or write, how could you expect them to run a business?

Providing them with a monthly pension, if you can afford it, really is the right and safe way to do it.

Then they can choose to work to supplement their pension or not, at harvest time they can make money.

Edited September 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[stevo2]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

None of my business and if I am wrong please say so.

I assume you have set up a proper company and have a work permit that allows you to make deliveries, taxes being paid etc?

Like I said, the business belongs to my wife.It is a Thai company. It has nothing to do with me. I helped set it up. All the money I lent has been paid back. I have no need to control her. How do people know I was not living away when the company was started. There was a question somewhere about people who have set up something that has succeeded. I just answered "Yes" to that question.

As far as making deliveries goes, well that has been covered on other threads on this forum.

[TommoPhysicist]

As far as making deliveries goes, well that has been covered on other threads on this forum.

You have admitted to running the website, checking orders and making deliveries.

Hardly an independent business by your wife, and illegal as you have no work permit to do any of those things.

You are risking forcible deportation and a lengthy exclusion from Thailand if caught.

[stevo2]

As far as making deliveries goes, well that has been covered on other threads on this forum.

You have admitted to running the website, checking orders and making deliveries.

Hardly an independent business by your wife, and illegal as you have no work permit to do any of those things.

You are risking forcible deportation and a lengthy exclusion from Thailand if caught.

It may have escaped your notice but this is the 21st century. Websites can be maintained from anywhere.

[jamescollister]

Thanks for all the helpful and not so helpful ideas.

I just want to give them something to stop them from breaking their back in the fields all day - I have been with their daughter 7 years and although times were hard at the start I am now in a postion to help them out.

I don't need to make a profit and what they do with it is up to them, I have never been asked for any money from them which in part made up my mind to help them out or at least give them an opportunity to help themselves.

If it all goes to <deleted>, so be it - but I won't finance anything else again

I know about the family/locals etc asking for credit etc but this is something they'll have to manage

If not a shop can anyone suggest anything else? I'm not giving them a lump sum of cash and saying do what you want because having a wad of cash (substantial in the village) it is far too tempting to find more 'pressing' or more attractive priorities.

OK you want to give them the chance and that's fair enough, but a small shop may well be to much for them. To be honest I won't know how to run a shop, source goods, monitor in-comings out goings etc. Would no doubt get the software to do it, but I am guessing they have never used a computer.

Maybe they would be more suited to a plant nursery, very popular round here at the moment. They are farmers and growing things may be in their blood.

Corner stores are everywhere and the husband still works or has an other business. My local, the husband has a rice thrasher and delivers the rice.

You should talk with your wife and see what they really want to do and as you say, there will be no more business opportunities from your money. They might well be happier in the knowledge that you will send a few grand a month and they will not go hungry.

In the end, if the store folds or makes nothing. your wife will not let her parents starve. Good luck with it. Jim

[rgs2001uk]

If you want to fund your in-laws give them 2kbht a month.

Enough to live on, and they can't keep asking you to bail them out, like they would when the shop fails.

Also you get to keep control of your capital, the in-laws, and thereby your wife.

As for the shop setup costs ....... depends entirely on your resemblance to a buffalo.

Oh dear. What a sad outlook on things.

I set up a small business for my wife. Those of you who live in Buriram will probably know me and the company.

I do have some input, usually keeping the website up to date, checking orders and doing some deliveries( my wife cannot drive a car yet). I have not been involved financially for over 2 and a half years.

I am proud to say that the company is running as strong as ever after just over 3 years in business.

None of my business and if I am wrong please say so.

I assume you have set up a proper company and have a work permit that allows you to make deliveries, taxes being paid etc?

Like I said, the business belongs to my wife.It is a Thai company. It has nothing to do with me. I helped set it up. All the money I lent has been paid back. I have no need to control her. How do people know I was not living away when the company was started. There was a question somewhere about people who have set up something that has succeeded. I just answered "Yes" to that question.

As far as making deliveries goes, well that has been covered on other threads on this forum.

Cant be assed reading other threads on this forum, I neither know you or your business, and too be honest I dont give a toss.

However your reluctance to answer the question leads me to believe that you dont have a work permit.

As mentioned before, I dont give a toss, but having visited and spent time up your way I know there are many spiteful vindictive farangs and their ex BG partners that driven by greed and jealousy, coupled with hate and resentment have nothing better to do than make problems for someone making a go of their business.

I was always taught to cover my ass, up to you.

[stevo2]

This thread started off as a guy asking advise. There was then a question about success. I answered that question to the affirmative. I was not going to get involved at all, but I was starting to get a bit peeved at the way the thread was going. It was starting to get like one of those " Thai people know nothing", " Thai people are there to riip off the farangs", " Thai people are lazy liars".

Soon after I dispelled these thought as nothing but generalisations I get jumped on about other issues. People making mountains et al.

My wife runs the business. She takes orders, she makes the orders. She buys supplies and runs the inventory. I do sometimes lend a hand. Maybe my first post was misleading and made people assume that I was more hands on than I am.

So I sometimes drive the car. Not sure really if that makes me a delivery man. I sometimes put a photo on her website. I sometime check her spelling, the majority of customers are westerners. Not sure that this makes me an editor. I also wash the car. Does that make me a valet? I cut the grass. Does that make me a gardener? I take my family to Big C. Does that make me a taxi driver? Took some people to a funeral the other day. May be I am an undertaker too. Maybe all of us are one or more of these things. Work permits?

Please give credit where it is due instead of going off topic to take the gloss off of things. Any doubters are more than welcome to come over and visit.

Thank You.

Edited September 27, 2012 by stevo2

[DILLIGAD]

I dont give a toss, but having visited and spent time up your way I know there are many spiteful vindictive farangs and their ex BG partners that driven by greed and jealousy, coupled with hate and resentment have nothing better to do than make problems for someone making a go of their business.

I was always taught to cover my ass, up to you.

Very true and many stereotype people after visiting anywhere. The fact that you mention what you were taught, suggests you have been no chior boy either?

As a matter of interest which towns did you visit to get to that assumption and how many times?

[Farma]

A lot depends on the family attitude to life and things in general.

I know an 80 year old widower who is more than self sufficient without outside help. He has his large fish pond with the fish providing food for him and income from sales. Add to that a reasonable amount of chickens for food and sale. Additional income comes from people growing rice on his land. He gets 50% of the rice crop. He's been a farmer all his life so these things come naturally to him.

On the other hand a few hundred metres down the road is a family who've been hand fed money from their farang son in law (not me) whether it be by his good intentions or the urging of his wife.

There was the piggery now abandoned and covered in weeds. Then came the village shop which closed after the family ate all the stock and couldn't be bothered to restock or show interest in running it.

Later there was the hair dressing salon. Work went in to concrete block an area under the house, they just never got around to completing the job. The hair dressing equipment sits unused exposed to the weather. Never fear the area is well used...by the family sitting around drinking all day.

[farang000999]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

this nailed it.op get over your ego and just send them a monthly salary. i know you are trying to do the whole "teach them to fish" thingy but it will just end in more frustration and failure. just send cash or better yet, booze.

[rgs2001uk]

I dont give a toss, but having visited and spent time up your way I know there are many spiteful vindictive farangs and their ex BG partners that driven by greed and jealousy, coupled with hate and resentment have nothing better to do than make problems for someone making a go of their business.

I was always taught to cover my ass, up to you.

Very true and many stereotype people after visiting anywhere. The fact that you mention what you were taught, suggests you have been no chior boy either?

As a matter of interest which towns did you visit to get to that assumption and how many times?

Towns visited in that neck of the woods, Buriram, Prasat, Surin and Ubon.

Lost count of how many times, sometimes double up, last month visited a friend living in Ubon and stopped in Prasat to visit another on the way back.

By covering my ass I meant I dont get involved in anything illegal and cant understand why others do.

Many times I have heard "the locals dont give a shit or care what we do", that may or not be true,personally it doesnt affect me, but I fail to understand why others would put themselves at risk.

Last one I met was on overstay selling 5 baht ice creams to school kids in Ubon.

In the same town there is a farang (also on overstay)living with a married Thai lady, when the ladies farang husband comes on holiday the lover moves out for a while.

Yes I have seen it all.

[farang000999]

Most people buy in bulk at a local wholesaler, one of the big rip offs is a "Fridge". they never think through the cost of a MUST HAVE A FRIDGE and the return of kleeping things cold.

My in-laws use ice boxes, ice truck comes through every second day, they buy ice, keep things cold.

MUCH cheaper,

She has a noodle shop, very profitable, more so than having to re-sell things from a wholesaler, but you have to be a good cook to make it work and have no competition around.

Some wholesalers deliver. That works too, otherwise sometimes a trip to Macro you see people stocking up for the small village shops too.

Teaching people the basics of business is a good idea, sometimes they are keen, my in-laws where, they just need a few 1000's baht to get going and are totally self sufficient, so I had no problems helping them get going, and give a few tips on how to price things, and she is very popular in the village.

Why not? Kee Neo Farang!

My fridges where free one from Pepsi and 1 from coca cola also the trick is to use your shop as the main source for all the other little shops to buy from ....basically overpower them and give a wide variety of goods for the locals and children......it is also good as you say to have food on the go either rice or noodles or both.

Meat is a good seller and vegetables from the garden in the AM.

Basically a village shop here is an investment for years and an income even if it is small....nobody opens a shop if you are a farang and think you are going to get rich here,it is enjoyable at times but also hard work and the avenue to speak Thai is open wide for you.

If you can earn anything over 20.000 baht a month you are doing very well.

did you mean 2000 baht? lol at making 20 000 baht a month with a little village shop selling veggies. do these "veggies" make you see funny colors?

[how241]

OP don't waste your time or money, if your in laws had wanted a shop they would have opened one.

You will pay to make and stock, they will sell and spend. When all the stock is gone there will be no money to re stock, it's the Thai way and that's why little shops, noddle bars etc pop up and disappear.

Better to just send them money to live if they can't work, all these schemes are just away of justifying helping out the in laws. Jim

Not to be negative but this might be correct. Just offer to pay/give them a little money each month. Easier for all.

[SlyAnimal]

I think, you should give them the following 3 options:.

1/ Give them 3,000 Baht a month, every month and then they don't need to work

2/ Give them 24,000 Baht as a one time payment, to help setup their shop, their way, and give them 2,000 every month.

3/ You pay all of the setup costs for a shop, and assist with running it for the first 3 months, and give them 2,000 every month.

Pros / Cons:

Option 1 - Set monthly income for them, if they just want to live comfortably then they can do so. You should also decrease the amount of times which they potentially ask you for money, as they'll have a budget already, and hopefully savings.

Option 2 - The lump sum payment helps them to setup their business, then they only need to make 1000 Baht a month to get ahead, they should do that easily. From your perspective, it pays itself off in around years, and should leave your MIL/FIL in a much better position.

Option 3 - This should cost around the same as the lump sum payment in option 2. But it'd give you/them certainty that the business would be setup (Since if it blows the budget, you can cover it), and an opportunity to train them in western business practices. It would cost you time as well, but the long term benefits to their business could be quite substantial, and it would help with further developing the relationship between yourself and your MIL/FIL.

*The figures which I've given above, are just examples. Depending on your own situation, you might want to give them a bit more (I wouldn't recommend any less though, as it's already very low). Hopefully they'll become self sufficient from their business though, in which case any additional money you give them, will go into either improving their standard of living, or savings for the future.

Edit: Also I asked my gf how much she thought her mum's small shop cost to setup. She said around 10,000 for shelves, 20,000 for a fridge, and then maybe 70,000 for stock (Mainly Whiskey spikes up the costs on this. As maybe 2000-3000 per 12box of whiskey, and they'd want to have around 5+ different types of whiskey + a few boxes of Chang/Leos which are a bit pricey too (Likewise a decent amount of soda). Her shop isn't huge, but it's also bigger than a lot of the small village shops we see too.

Edited September 27, 2012 by SlyAnimal

[ALFREDO]

If you can earn anything over 20.000 baht a month you are doing very well.

did you mean 2000 baht? lol at making 20 000 baht a month with a little village shop selling veggies. do these "veggies" make you see funny colors?

Maybe 20.000 Baht turnover?

Working? Doing anything without a workpermit.

The involvement with a sometime helping hand in a small Thai village, in the country side, is,

as far as I see and saw it, not so dangerous and must not be in steady fear to be soon facing legal proceedings. (Different in cities and Tourist towns)

My German neighbor in a Chayaphum rural village, tried all kind of different farming, with and without animals and did even the heavy labor himself.

Over years, no problem.

Another buddy from the Netherlands, in a Udon Thani rural village, modified his Pick Up and drives with 2 dozens of school children to and from school,

for a small amount of money, paid from the school children, since long time. Sometimes he and his Pick Up, is also rented out as a Taxi.

No official complains! He is part of the community, but lives alone, his Ex GF is in Sweden with the 'new' guy from the Internet.

All what he invested in land and the house he built and lives in, is in his Ex GF name.

Until now that is accepted.

To the -OP-

-Skyanimal- and some others said it well and all already.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ALFREDO

[Semper]

Another idea would be to marry your gf and pay the sinsod.

[Richie1971]

Some good replies - However the family are neither drinkers or layabouts - I have a feeling some of the posters have had bad experiences in the past (or more likely living the dream nightmare with a Leo and a keyboard for company) and are feeling bitter - I merely asked about the set up costs for a shop in a village, nothing more nothing less

[maprao]

I wanted to do this and my wife told me NO.

People take stuff telling they will pay and then do not. This surprised me.

I then thought of a laundry operating "Thai" prices and she thought that might work....Any business in a village is hit or miss. They seem to come and go where I am.

[Farma]

Once the shop is set up what plans does the OP have when it comes to resupply. Do the parents have access to a pickup that can make the weekly trips to wholesalers in Ubon or closer. Ice, water and icecreams are regularly delived by the supplier. Is there a makro or other similar sized wholesaler for the other stock nearby.

Depending on the size of the village it's also worth thinking about a 7-11 opening up nearby. Regardless of what you think of 7-11 and their prices it's a strong brand that sucks the life out of many small town/village shops and mini marts.

[jamescollister]

Some good replies - However the family are neither drinkers or layabouts - I have a feeling some of the posters have had bad experiences in the past (or more likely living the dream nightmare with a Leo and a keyboard for company) and are feeling bitter - I merely asked about the set up costs for a shop in a village, nothing more nothing less

Set up cost, same as anywhere minus the building cost or rent. A fridge is similar in price here to Australia, imagine same UK, freezer ditto. Stock cheaper , less tax.

Do they have a pick up to go buy from bulk suppliers, if not they will not compete in price with the shop down the road. I know some supplies deliver, but that is at a cost.

To set up a proper, profit making store with goods to sell will cost.

If you are looking at making a real attempt at your in laws having a fair go at a shop that will support them, a lot of money.

If you are talking a shop that turns 300 Baht a day and makes a profit of 60 Baht, then not much. jim

[Richie1971]

I have heard from over yonder that some sort of fertilizer/weed killer for the paddies is in much demand and can only be obtained in the next town, everyone is supposed to use these products so might be more viable than a Lao Cao/Leo top up station. Probably taste better than Lao Cao as well

[jamescollister]

I have heard from over yonder that some sort of fertilizer/weed killer for the paddies is in much demand and can only be obtained in the next town, everyone is supposed to use these products so might be more viable than a Lao Cao/Leo top up station. Probably taste better than Lao Cao as well

Again the fertilizer sales people tour villages,trying to sell there goods. They often run on a buy now pay later, if your credit is good. The bigger towns have bulk supplies, who deliver and the bigger buyers, like me get interest free credit for a month or 2.

Small shops sell small bags, small turn over, big stores have trucks and forklifts, big investment. Jim

[Richie1971]

Another valid consideration Jim

[jamescollister]

Op, how about we take a different tact on the subject, How much do you want your in laws to generate [profit ] from the business. How much are you willing to give, money wise.

Thailand is not some sort of magic utopia, where everything is cheap and when you sell you make a fortune. Businesses here run the same as in the west. 10% is a good return, here or anywhere.

Just like in the west most small unprepared businesses fail, if there is an opportunity Thais with money are not slow to take it.

So if we say you want them to earn say 300,000 a year, you are looking at an investment of 3 mil. ball park numbers.

Before anyone jumps up and says you can do it on less, yes Bill Gates started with nothing and a few others, but most have to pay for the job.

OP have a look a bahtandsold. People would not be paying that kind of money if they could just set up on the cheap and make the same profits.

If you find an opening that makes money in a village please tell me.

On the fertilizer side, I have a factory and was approached by a fertilizer company about setting up a sales point. The amount of money I would have needed for trucks forklifts, warehouse etc was not that much different than it would have cost [owing the land ] in the west and no local store could compete on cost. Jim

[somo]

Perhaps the richest lady in our village owns the village store but that is just a front for her drug dealing.

However she does claim to make good money from her second hand clothes. Think she goes to markets close to the Cambodian border to buy them (Aranyaphatet??)

[jamescollister]

Perhaps the richest lady in our village owns the village store but that is just a front for her drug dealing.

However she does claim to make good money from her second hand clothes. Think she goes to markets close to the Cambodian border to buy them (Aranyaphatet??)

They not second hand clothes, they are given by the big brand names as a donation to the poor of Cambodia [ over stocked and a tax write off ] The clothes never see the poor and are sold in border towns. My wife loves it, designer brands at 30 Baht.

Don't get caught taking a truck load to BKK though. Jim