Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts Clash On Darunee Case

[Singlebarrel]

Mind you IMO all it takes is a fairly minor verbal altercation like this to escalate and rekindle the Red Shirt flames. Also plenty of anti-Red Shirt rhetoric - as usual - being bandied around.

http://youtu.be/cA7m4RAhiJ4

[Buchholz]

No luck reading the article you describe.

but you must have seen the link on google yeah? strange isn't it...

it's uncommon, but I've seen that occur before when a media source wants to redo an article.

anyway, i honestly couldn't care less who started it, i was just repeating what i had read in the BP that it was the breaking up of the car that caused the violence, i suppose they meant when it got real ugly maybe.

Well, we can see from other sources and the video that wasn't the case with the punching and whatnot occurring prior .

As for "real ugly", I didn't see anything from either side that was all that severe, which, while not optimal, is some degree of progress compared to previous incidents.

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[lineofentry]

I have some sympathy for the reds. It appears to me that they keep winning elections by huge majorities, something which the yellows don't have cat in hell's chance of doing, only to be forced out of office by vested interest groupings who then proceed to install a puppet government who then doctor the law in their own favour.

In the long term, I would suggest that some intelligent and thoughtful opposition work by the yellows would gain them far more legitimacy and electability than just buying another short term coup.

This latest little fracas is of no strategic importance.

I should be getting paid for this.

[indyuk]

In another local paper I notice the sign above the red shirt truck says "red skills radio 96.35 MHz". Is this where the reds learn the skills of pouring blood on peoples' private residence gates, burning city halls, burning shopping centers, invading hospitals, illegally stopping and searching of private citizen cars and trucks, firing M79 grenades, assaulting anyone who disagrees with them including the sitting Prime Minister, invading Internation meetings causing the participants to leave by helicopter, just to name a few of their wonderful traits and deeds. Red democracy at its finest.

Oh Brother you actually seem to want the 'Truth and Reconciliation' process to fail. That's insanity!

[OzMick]

In another local paper I notice the sign above the red shirt truck says "red skills radio 96.35 MHz". Is this where the reds learn the skills of pouring blood on peoples' private residence gates, burning city halls, burning shopping centers, invading hospitals, illegally stopping and searching of private citizen cars and trucks, firing M79 grenades, assaulting anyone who disagrees with them including the sitting Prime Minister, invading Internation meetings causing the participants to leave by helicopter, just to name a few of their wonderful traits and deeds. Red democracy at its finest.

Oh Brother you actually seem to want the 'Truth and Reconciliation' process to fail. That's insanity!

What chance has the truth and reconciliation process got when the reds deny they did anything wrong? That's stupidity !

[Skywalker69]

The yellow shirts,

Those that r here since 2006 will know that there was a idea from the PAD to send all farangs home as to protect the Thai nationalism and culture.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

Links please.

[Skywalker69]

I have some sympathy for the reds. It appears to me that they keep winning elections by huge majorities, something which the yellows don't have cat in hell's chance of doing, only to be forced out of office by vested interest groupings who then proceed to install a puppet government who then doctor the law in their own favour.

In the long term, I would suggest that some intelligent and thoughtful opposition work by the yellows would gain them far more legitimacy and electability than just buying another short term coup.

This latest little fracas is of no strategic importance.

I should be getting paid for this.

Not without election promises that is on the way to empty State Treasury, and wote buying.

[473geo]

The elite billionaire and millionaire red shirts probably own at least a shophouse or two.

.

I seem to recall Thaksin was no. 19 on the 2011 Thai rich list.....

[FOODLOVER]

In another local paper I notice the sign above the red shirt truck says "red skills radio 96.35 MHz". Is this where the reds learn the skills of pouring blood on peoples' private residence gates, burning city halls, burning shopping centers, invading hospitals, illegally stopping and searching of private citizen cars and trucks, firing M79 grenades, assaulting anyone who disagrees with them including the sitting Prime Minister, invading Internation meetings causing the participants to leave by helicopter, just to name a few of their wonderful traits and deeds. Red democracy at its finest.

Oh Brother you actually seem to want the 'Truth and Reconciliation' process to fail. That's insanity!

Oh brother, wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.

[Buchholz]

The elite billionaire and millionaire red shirts probably own at least a shophouse or two.

I seem to recall Thaksin was no. 19 on the 2011 Thai rich list.....

Yes, lots of rich Red Shirts, and I believe he owns at least a shophouse or two.

His property business, SC Asset, has certainly benefited while his sister is PM.

samples:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074619

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074470

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4859456

,

Edited September 27, 2012 by Buchholz

[noob7]

The yellow shirts,

Those that r here since 2006 will know that there was a idea from the PAD to send all farangs home as to protect the Thai nationalism and culture.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

Links please.

Right!

Protecting Thai nationalism and culture, how should that work, without double pricing (not only) Farang people?

Huge income loss, for Thai 'culture' related business fields (scams). And lot of less nationalism growing!

[jayboy]

The elite billionaire and millionaire red shirts probably own at least a shophouse or two.

I seem to recall Thaksin was no. 19 on the 2011 Thai rich list.....

Yes, lots of rich Red Shirts, and I believe he owns at least a shophouse or two.

His property business, SC Asset, has certainly benefited while his sister is PM.

samples:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074619

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074470

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4859456

,

Getting a bit desperate aren't we, providing links to your own quotes.

Difficult to know what your point is these days.Perhaps you are suggesting it's odd that there are rich businessmen supporting the redshirt cause.I don't find it particularly odd since there is no anti-capitalist movement to speak of in Thailand.From a purely cynical viewpoint it could simply be a sense of enlightened self interest.Only the naive would believe the major Thai corporations don't keep a foot in both camps, particularly now the unelected elites are on a downward trajectory.

I'm used now to the fuzzy and imprecise language the usual suspects use, whether from a lack of articulacy or a wish to obfuscate (or both) - it's hard to tell.However we have an example here:

"His property business, SC Asset, has certainly benefited while his sister is PM."

Does this mean that SC Asset has prospered since Thaksin's sister came to power or because his sister came to power? The joke is that SC Asset's earnings have actually declined this year but that recognition would actually mean doing research instead relying on a barrage of lies.

[Buchholz]

I seem to recall Thaksin was no. 19 on the 2011 Thai rich list.....

Yes, lots of rich Red Shirts, and I believe he owns at least a shophouse or two.

His property business, SC Asset, has certainly benefited while his sister is PM.

samples:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074619

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5074470

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4859456

Getting a bit desperate aren't we, providing links to your own quotes.

Difficult to know what your point is these days.Perhaps you are suggesting it's odd that there are rich businessmen supporting the redshirt cause.

When those quotes include quotes of news media sources, what on Earth is desperate about them?

Or are you just that desperate in your attempt to disparage them?

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

On the contrary it's a fatuous point in which once again meaning is distorted by sloppy use of English and I'm afraid a rather crude understanding of the dynamics to the current political struggle.

If you are suggesting that within the redshirt leadership there are wealthy individuals, that would be correct.Within redshirt supporters as a whole there are far more educated and prosperous people than is often realised or admitted.As a matter of fact rather like the English and American Civil Wars there are often supporters of different causes within one family.It suits the interests of some to maintain otherwise.However in the context of the Thai political crisis it's quite clear that one side has contempt for democracy and progress towards equality and one side doesn't.Then there are the Whigs who stand for the old order but have the intelligence and sense of self interest who understand compromise and slow dilution of wealth/political power is necessary for their interests to survive the transition to a better Thailand more or less unscathed.Of course there are exceptions and overlapping areas as there always are.But the overall position is clear.

However there will always be an element that thinks only in childish terms."Ooh look the redshirts have rich people too, so they're just elite as well, innit" or similar dimbulb stuff.

Edited September 27, 2012 by jayboy

[Buchholz]

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

On the contrary it's a fatuous point

Your typical derogatory and insulting language and Whig discussion aside, I'll defer and abstain from one of your patented bickering sessions.

There's been enough deleted posts in this thread already.

.

[TheKrayTriplet]

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

On the contrary it's a fatuous point

Your typical derogatory and insulting language and Whig discussion aside, I'll defer and abstain from one of your patented bickering sessions.

There's been enough deleted posts in this thread already.

.

Well I've been called a fool and told it was for my benefit so I don't see how fatuous is so insulting. Does this mean that if the Whig discussion is put aside you will also put aside your discussions about SC Property and we can all get back to the thread?

Edited September 27, 2012 by TheKrayTriplet

[Buchholz]

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

On the contrary it's a fatuous point

Your typical derogatory and insulting language and Whig discussion aside, I'll defer and abstain from one of your patented bickering sessions.

There's been enough deleted posts in this thread already.

.

Well I've been called a fool and told it was for my benefit so I don't see how fatuous is so insulting. Does this mean that if the Whig discussion is put aside you will also put aside your discussions about SC Property and we can all get back to the thread?

The insulting language was snipped.

I'm all in favor of discussing the yellow shirt, red shirt clash.

Hopefully others are as well.

.

[TheKrayTriplet]

The insulting language was snipped.

I'm all in favor of discussing the yellow shirt, red shirt clash.

Hopefully others are as well.

.

C'mon I've re read it. Insulting I'm sure you've been called worse, or should have been

[Buchholz]

The insulting language was snipped.

I'm all in favor of discussing the yellow shirt, red shirt clash.

Hopefully others are as well.

.

C'mon I've re read it.

Re-read Forum Rule # 1

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[jayboy]

The point of the oriinal quote was simply to point out that there are elite Red Shirts to counter a claim the elites are all yellow shirts.

It's quite an easy point, really. Even 473geo got it.

On the contrary it's a fatuous point

Your typical derogatory and insulting language and Whig discussion aside, I'll defer and abstain from one of your patented bickering sessions.

There's been enough deleted posts in this thread already.

.

I would politely suggest that if you lose or are unable to sustain an argument it makes more sense to accept defeat gracefully rather than descend into personal abuse.On the other hand if you have any serious points to make let's hear them.

[TheKrayTriplet]

The insulting language was snipped.

I'm all in favor of discussing the yellow shirt, red shirt clash.

Hopefully others are as well.

.

C'mon I've re read it.

Re-read Forum Rule # 1

.

Nuff respect! Maybe a few on here should read it and actually uphold it.

[rixalex]

If you are suggesting that within the redshirt leadership there are wealthy individuals, that would be correct.Within redshirt supporters as a whole there are far more educated and prosperous people than is often realised or admitted.

Ten out of ten for spinning around the usual negative sentiments applied to wealthy yellows along the lines of, rich and greedy elite hell-bent on keeping the masses down - to the starkly contrasting sentiments expressed here of: "far more educated and prosperous people".

Like an estate agents blurb, a run-down dingy cramped semi becomes a full of character cosy home in need of some TLC.

However in the context of the Thai political crisis it's quite clear that one side has contempt for democracy and progress towards equality and one side doesn't.

I'm sorry, i don't mean to be offensive, but this is just laughable. To suggest that there is any side in all of this that hasn't acted on numerous occasions with contempt for democracy and progress towards equality, beggars belief, it really does.

[jayboy]

If you are suggesting that within the redshirt leadership there are wealthy individuals, that would be correct.Within redshirt supporters as a whole there are far more educated and prosperous people than is often realised or admitted.

Ten out of ten for spinning around the usual negative sentiments applied to wealthy yellows along the lines of, rich and greedy elite hell-bent on keeping the masses down - to the starkly contrasting sentiments expressed here of: "far more educated and prosperous people".

Like an estate agents blurb, a run-down dingy cramped semi becomes a full of character cosy home in need of some TLC.

However in the context of the Thai political crisis it's quite clear that one side has contempt for democracy and progress towards equality and one side doesn't.

I'm sorry, i don't mean to be offensive, but this is just laughable. To suggest that there is any side in all of this that hasn't acted on numerous occasions with contempt for democracy and progress towards equality, beggars belief, it really does.

I am afraid I don't understand your first point or even if, ranting aside,whether you are making any kind of point at all.I have no issue with rich people or the capitalist system that made them (or their families) rich.I do have a problem with the abuse of power, military coups and entrenched feudal interests.Actually I have some sympathy with the PAD movement particularly in its early days when there was genuine outrage among the middle classes at Thaksin's meglomania.Of course it soon became apparent the yellowshirt leadership was a particularly revolting bunch of proto fascists (and sanctimonious at that), and mass support ebbed away.Still I would never besmirch the decent instincts of many yellowshirts in the early days.The current rump is not a very attractive group but is correspondingly less influential.(The old order now prefers judicial intervention to violent street protests).

As to your second comment, I am on surer ground.Not only do I understand the point you are making but I mostly agree with it.Politics is a rough and ready business where unlikely partners are forced together, and compromises forged.Clearly in Thailand there are some villains everywhere in the political spectrum.Actually I don't believe wickedness is the main problem though it certainly exists at the higher level of the old entrenched order:but the main factor is fear, particularly on the part of the mainly Sino Thai urban middle class - which has cast its lot in with the old order.In fact they have nothing much to fear from the new Thailand where all the people will be more fairly represented.As George Orwell said in a slightly different context, "they have nothing to lose but their aitches."There is no monopoly of virtue but taking the broad view I believe that morality and fairness lies with the redshirt movement than its violent opponents.We will see what the future brings but I would guess that the redshirts will evolve into something more middle class, less extreme and more pragmatic.

[rixalex]

Ten out of ten for spinning around the usual negative sentiments applied to wealthy yellows along the lines of, rich and greedy elite hell-bent on keeping the masses down - to the starkly contrasting sentiments expressed here of: "far more educated and prosperous people".

Like an estate agents blurb, a run-down dingy cramped semi becomes a full of character cosy home in need of some TLC.

I am afraid I don't understand your first point or even if, ranting aside,whether you are making any kind of point at all.

Ranting? Where?

Even if, whether i am making any kind of point at all?

The point was a fairly obvious one i thought, picking up on how, when the conversation switched from rich yellow supporters to rich red supporters, your language changed. Suddenly we stopped talking about rich people as being evil and dastardly, and started talking about rich people as being, "well-educated and prosperous".

[jayboy]

Ten out of ten for spinning around the usual negative sentiments applied to wealthy yellows along the lines of, rich and greedy elite hell-bent on keeping the masses down - to the starkly contrasting sentiments expressed here of: "far more educated and prosperous people".

Like an estate agents blurb, a run-down dingy cramped semi becomes a full of character cosy home in need of some TLC.

I am afraid I don't understand your first point or even if, ranting aside,whether you are making any kind of point at all.

Ranting? Where?

Even if, whether i am making any kind of point at all?

The point was a fairly obvious one i thought, picking up on how, when the conversation switched from rich yellow supporters to rich red supporters, your language changed. Suddenly we stopped talking about rich people as being evil and dastardly, and started talking about rich people as being, "well-educated and prosperous".

You really must try harder not to come up with prescriptive definitions.As I pointed out earlier I have nothing against the rich, nor have I criticised yellow shirts for being rich.In the kindest possible way if you can't keep up with a marginally sophisticated discussion there are plenty of hard liners on the for you can trade platitudes with.

[rixalex]

You really must try harder not to come up with prescriptive definitions.As I pointed out earlier I have nothing against the rich, nor have I criticised yellow shirts for being rich.In the kindest possible way if you can't keep up with a marginally sophisticated discussion there are plenty of hard liners on the for you can trade platitudes with.

I wasn't saying that you criticised the yellows for being rich, i was saying that you attack the rich elements within the yellow movement for the way in which they have capitalised at the expense of the poor (fine, i agree) but then imply that the rich elements within the red movement are somehow different. They are not.

They rich yellows may have the head start on the rich reds by a few generations, in terms of taking advantage of the poor, but the rich reds are certainly doing their darnedest to catch up.

[jayboy]

You really must try harder not to come up with prescriptive definitions.As I pointed out earlier I have nothing against the rich, nor have I criticised yellow shirts for being rich.In the kindest possible way if you can't keep up with a marginally sophisticated discussion there are plenty of hard liners on the for you can trade platitudes with.

I wasn't saying that you criticised the yellows for being rich, i was saying that you attack the rich elements within the yellow movement for the way in which they have capitalised at the expense of the poor (fine, i agree) but then imply that the rich elements within the red movement are somehow different. They are not.

They rich yellows may have the head start on the rich reds by a few generations, in terms of taking advantage of the poor, but the rich reds are certainly doing their darnedest to catch up.

Actually I haven't attacked the rich in the yellow movement for the reasons you give.In fact I haven't attacked them at all as far as I recall.The rich in any case tended to be behind the scenes and it was eventually just the useful idiots - Chinese grannies and a few thugs that were out on the streets spouting the usual race hate and accompanying nonsense.As for the rich in the red ranks well sorry to rub salt in the wound but yes I do believe they chose the more moral and decent side.Or to be more cynical they recognise which way history is going and chose the better side.

[nurofiend]

No luck reading the article you describe.

but you must have seen the link on google yeah? strange isn't it...

it's uncommon, but I've seen that occur before when a media source wants to redo an article.

nope, no redoing of the article

i guess it was just too red friendly and they rang the alarm bells.

[Buchholz]

No luck reading the article you describe.

but you must have seen the link on google yeah? strange isn't it...

it's uncommon, but I've seen that occur before when a media source wants to redo an article.

nope, no redoing of the article

i guess it was just too red friendly and they rang the alarm bells.

"they"?

The other paper has now done three articles on the incident. I don't think "they" (whoever that means) did anything. Articles do get pulled from time to time and it's been my experience that they do so when they are re-written with either additional information or to correct articles that were in error.

One of the main issues regarding the incident now seems to revolve around the police and how they didn't inform either group that there was no court case that day (the reason for both rallies). Even before the first group (the yellow shirts) arrived, the case had been already been decided that a continuance was issued and the case would be heard at the end of October. They failed to inform the yellow shirts as well as the red shirts who came later. The police also are being questioned as to the poor job they did keeping the two groups separate.

.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Buchholz

[nurofiend]

it's uncommon, but I've seen that occur before when a media source wants to redo an article.

nope, no redoing of the article

i guess it was just too red friendly and they rang the alarm bells.

"they"?

The other paper has now done three articles on the incident. I don't think "they" (whoever that means) did anything. Articles do get pulled from time to time and it's been my experience that they do so when they are re-written with either additional information or to correct articles that were in error.

"they", as in the editors

"and it's been my experience that they do so when they are re-written with either additional information or to correct articles that were in error."

and that corresponds to this how? the article was completely deleted, no corrections or re-writes.