To Invest A Condo In Pattaya. Will It Be A Good Investment?

[JSixpack]

Even in the middle of bangkok center there are a few.

We aren't talking about Bangkok--again. Think, and try to remember--what subforum are you in?

But yes, even in a city of 7 million and 1,600 km² there are a few!

What a totally convincing, irrefutable argument you've made for the horrors and devastation we continue to suffer in this post-apocalyptic Thailand since 1997! How SHOCKING!

I might also observe that some developments left over from that era are still empty mainly owing to the slow pace of the Thai legal system. Argument, settlement, and liquidation just take forever. By the time they finish, the structure has too far deteriorated.

There was a case like that in Jomtien, nice big building stayed empty for a decade owing to a legal dispute. Finally resolved and now units have been selling.

And regarding the empty city near the elevated highway, if you knew what you were talking about you should not call that a bad location, since it borders at that hughe river,don't know the name, and has it's own marina.Hilton had leased both towers at that time, untill the ceiling fell to the floor for developers in Thailand.

Even if Hilton got a deal, it's ridiculous to think that river traffic and yachts were gonna support that huge development in that location. Nothing around there. Duh!

Not "developers." Some developers.

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Huge NEW development, not "so many years." Got a few more units left, esp. the Thai quota. It doesn't have to be !00% sold out before YOU can pronounce it successful, 'cause you KNOW.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JSixpack

[jbrain]

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Huge NEW development, not "so many years." Got a few more units left, esp. the Thai quota.

A few more units left. 5555 You think to sell a "few" Thai quota units they set up a booth at Big C at 15.000 Baht per day rent . Take a look at the booth, there is much more than a "few " units for sale.

It was completed 2 years ago.Can't find the exact date but probably started selling more than 5 years ago.

[sotsira]

If prices are inflated, why, as you say, more concrete coffins are going up? it defies all logic.

Logic and economic decision-making seem to have parted ways (e.g. is it logical to raise prices when you have no customers?). The large investors believe that hype will sell the units. Many people have bought into the real-estate road is paved with gold myth. They are terrified reality will surface. One has already posted on this thread--always showing up to make critical remarks about people who do see reality.

The reality for me is i bought five condos over the last 8yrs, i've sold 3 of them in the last 2yrs and made a 50% profit.

The other two are joined as a 1bedroom condo which i use to live in.

ok either you bought absolute bargains or spent a lot of money refurbishing or both or whoever bought them off you got seriously ripped off or you're bullshitting, I could believe as I nearly bought the unit I was renting when I first moved here 8 years ago for 600k baht - 13th floor 50sqm corner unit with wrap round blacony and windows which was for sale recently at 2m baht so it is possible

No, im certainly not bullshitting, have no reason to, you don't know me as i don't know you, i'm just stating the facts

of what i've done in the last 8 years with the property market.

Your last sentence above is exactly the reason why i made a 50% clear profit on the 3 condos that i sold because that's

how cheap they were back in 2004/05 compared to current market value.

Those 3 were already refurbished and ready to live in, 2 years old at the time i purchased them.

The one i live in know, i bought off-plan as shells in 2008 but i don't plan to sell it anytime soon as it's my home.

[smedly]

I dob't thibk anyone here is saying not to buy and that their aren't units that can be bought at the right price or even cheaper, what most are saying is be careful and don't walk into a property agent and think that 3 million baht for a shoebox in the arsehol_e of nowhere is the correct market price just because it's advertised as such

[JSixpack]

a booth at Big C at 15.000 Baht per day rent .

Peanuts to a big developer. Probably seems like a lot to you, though, hard scrabbling for turnip roots to eat among the ruins of post-apocalyptic Thailand, I mean Bangkok, I mean Pattaya. Gotta look hard for them ruins, too, to maintain the survivalist lifestyle.

We must all have stockpiles against The Final Days, which may come just any moment now.

Ah, love these DYING PATTAYA threads! Big C was supposed be totally deserted, by the way; nobody was ever going to shop there after Carrefour. Same with Central Festival, it was supposed to be a deserted concrete cavern surrounded by all the concrete coffins; in fact, it was supposed to fall down! Still waitin' . . . just any time now, I know . . . .

[londoedan]

If Northpoint is so successful, then why it is still promoted at Big C at the moment.I would think that a successful project would have sold out after so many years.

Huge NEW development, not "so many years." Got a few more units left, esp. the Thai quota.

A few more units left. 5555 You think to sell a "few" Thai quota units they set up a booth at Big C at 15.000 Baht per day rent . Take a look at the booth, there is much more than a "few " units for sale.

It was completed 2 years ago.Can't find the exact date but probably started selling more than 5 years ago.

Now you're talking, Northpoint - I wouldn't mind buying something there.

What do the RE experts feel would be a fair price for a unit in that development, 50K per sq m ?

[BKKBobby]

One thing I just thought about, I dont see what the talk about "concrete cages" or what you are calling it is about... I mean I have 45 sqm, 2 rooms, and a petite kitchen... I only use the bedroom for sleeping, so in reality im practically not even using my full space. Im turning 30 years this year, might be cause of the age, I dont know, and Im single, I mean I wouldnt even know what to do with 80-90 sqm, It would be a lot of space I dont really use just for show when I got visitors

Edited September 30, 2012 by BKKBobby

[londoedan]

One thing I just thought about, I dont see what the talk about "concrete cages" or what you are calling it is about... I mean I have 45 sqm, 2 rooms, and a petite kitchen... I only use the bedroom for sleeping, so in reality im practically not even using my full space. Im turning 30 years this year, might be cause of the age, I dont know, and Im single, I mean I wouldnt even know what to do with 80-90 sqm, It would be a lot of space I dont really use just for show when I got visitors

Some of the units going up in Pattaya are less than 30 m2.

My place is 55 m2, in two rooms and a small kitchen and I wouldn't like anything much smaller than that.

[jbrain]

a booth at Big C at 15.000 Baht per day rent .

Peanuts to a big developer. Probably seems like a lot to you, though, hard scrabbling for turnip roots to eat among the ruins of post-apocalyptic Thailand, I mean Bangkok, I mean Pattaya. Gotta look hard for them ruins, too, to maintain the survivalist lifestyle.

We must all have stockpiles against The Final Days, which may come just any moment now.

Ah, love these DYING PATTAYA threads! Big C was supposed be totally deserted, by the way; nobody was ever going to shop there after Carrefour. Same with Central Festival, it was supposed to be a deserted concrete cavern surrounded by all the concrete coffins; in fact, it was supposed to fall down! Still waitin' . . . just any time now, I know . . . .

I think you are taking things out of it's context, just for the sake of having an argument Mr know it all.Well my father is bigger than yours, is that ok?

The point of my post was not the price level of a booth at Big C, but at that price you just don't put up a booth for an extended time if you only have a few unit's left of such a successful development, as you insist.Oh and you might be correct that Pattaya isn't dying, YET. Have a look at Spain, Marbella or Malaga for example.

Not so long ago you couldn't buy and sell properties fast enough, yet today those same investors aren't happy at all anymore, as they now have a gigantic portfolio which they even can't sell at a loss. I'm sure you heard of the problems Spain has these days, and which the prime reason is for that.

Of course, this would never happen (again) in Thailand, and for sure not in Pattaya.

Anyway, not so long ago I spoke a couple of times with a nice lady who had real estate booth at Big C extra and had a portfolio of projects , and she was so honest to tell me that she removed the booth before the rental agreement was finished , as she couldn't be bothered to sit there all day without selling ANYTHING.

Oh and by the way, since you mentioned the deserted Big C.This evening at 7 pm I was in the Jomtien area and decided to pick up a small air compressor at Tesco south pattaya, but had to retract from that idea, since I couldn't find a parking space available on the huge parking lot.

I decided to go to Big C then, where I could walk around with my eyes closed without touching another customer.And this is on the last day of the month, you probably understand what that means for a supermarket.

Edited September 30, 2012 by jbrain

[PattayaPhom]

One thing I just thought about, I dont see what the talk about "concrete cages" or what you are calling it is about... I mean I have 45 sqm, 2 rooms, and a petite kitchen... I only use the bedroom for sleeping, so in reality im practically not even using my full space. Im turning 30 years this year, might be cause of the age, I dont know, and Im single, I mean I wouldnt even know what to do with 80-90 sqm, It would be a lot of space I dont really use just for show when I got visitors

45sqm is a reasonable size, especially for a younster living alone. Its the 28sqm and now even 22 sqm that are going to be problematic in renting or reselling...ideal if your here on business frequently for a few days each month but apart from that no good.

[JSixpack]

One thing I just thought about, I dont see what the talk about "concrete cages" or what you are calling it is about... I mean I have 45 sqm, 2 rooms, and a petite kitchen... I only use the bedroom for sleeping, so in reality im practically not even using my full space. Im turning 30 years this year, might be cause of the age, I dont know, and Im single, I mean I wouldnt even know what to do with 80-90 sqm, It would be a lot of space I dont really use just for show when I got visitors

Yeah I laugh at my "house poor" suburbanite friends back in the States. Typically got 5 bedrooms, living room, rec room, etc. all stuffed to the ceilings with junk. Not a single square meter of space anywhere. Wanna set down a glass? Clear stuff out of the way first. Shelves all packed to overflowing, a lot of contents duplicated so as not to have to hunt far back in the shelves. Huge fridges and freezers w/ contents falling out . . . .

It's just ridiculous. Glad I avoided that fate. Downsizing is the way to go.

[121Advice]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

[PattayaPhom]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

And your avatar puts you as an IFA............thats funny man, great advice

[121Advice]

IFA or not, it's simple common sense! Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out! Sure some may have specific reasons to buy - but they are the minority. Leave your capital offshore and don't get cocky. No regrets

[rgs2001uk]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

And your avatar puts you as an IFA............thats funny man, great advice

Thats funny, pot kettle black.

Coming from someone involved in the real estate business I wouldnt have expected anything less.

At least his avatar shows his intent, does yours?

[121Advice]

Offshore as in country of domicile or elsewhere as cash. Not in market or otherwise. No pot, no kettle, no jumping to conclusions!! Why oh why do so many Thai Visa respondents seem to read more than what is actually written?

[121Advice]

If anything you would be better off buying property anywhere in the EU right now.... High rental yields, no one can get a mortgage and prices have downward pressure. I do not and have not sought any gain from these comments. The original post was concerning whether to buy or not. I say NO, if you say otherwise then good luck - but I stick to my renting argument for Thailand!

[simple1]

Offshore as in country of domicile or elsewhere as cash. Not in market or otherwise. No pot, no kettle, no jumping to conclusions!! Why oh why do so many Thai Visa respondents seem to read more than what is actually written?

Dementia...

[121Advice]

The very start of my second post states...."IF ANYTHING"....... It does not say DO IT!

Someone has an axe to grind by the looks of it.

Pure economics would indicate a bias toward investing in areas where property prices are depressed. I would suggest therefore if someone has a burning desire to invest in property (speculatively and NOT as a home) then other countries afford better value right now. For the purpose of this enquiry there is always a fine line between direct comparisons and simple logic. The latter would suggest renting due to inflated prices and over supply. This being the case, if the enquirer is sitting on capital I would advise holding it in cash offshore/out of Thailand in a common currency. Short term there is likely to be no Thai Baht devaluation agreed, but logger term regal & fiscal concerns could well undermine the Thai Baht. At current FX levels why invest in something via the Baht - you would likely get hit hard longer term "if" "when" exchange rates return to pre-2008 levels. I see little harm in adopting a more cautious rental stance and deem it prudent at this juncture.

[121Advice]

And yes, I very much agree with an alternative post where it states that very well run condo developments do indeed hold their value. There are numerous poor ones for every good one though, so caveat emptor etc etc.. Older units tend to be larger than the more modern shoe boxes and I agree that these can be rented out much more easily (if you are so inclined to do so). The REAL money of course is in the land. Buying and sitting on it. Of course that's not particularly feasible unless you are either Thai or have balls of steel!! (No I am not even going to venture into the realms of Thai company setups or should that be "stitch ups?") I shall leave that for others to justify..... Dicey ground.

[PattayaPhom]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

And your avatar puts you as an IFA............thats funny man, great advice

Thats funny, pot kettle black.

Coming from someone involved in the real estate business I wouldnt have expected anything less.

At least his avatar shows his intent, does yours?

I very rarley deal with developers, any properties I list are checked for ownership or tenancy and as such copies of all are held at my office for inspection. I do not load prices and refuse to list properties unless a vendor agrees to a valuation by us. Yes there are many bad agents/brokers but there are a few that play by the rules, and in that brings repeat customers and recomendations. What annoys me is the hard core members on here that spout off the same rubbish each time a thread on buying comes along just because they havnt the money to buy themselves. Renting suits some, buying suits others, I dont understand the big deal, and saying its trying to warn the naive is utter poppycock.

[smedly]

poppycock is what poppycock does - we are all looking at you

I you are so confident in your business perhaps you will share on here what company you represent, Im sure you won't have a problem with my request since you sell yourself as the model realter.......waiting

[rgs2001uk]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

And your avatar puts you as an IFA............thats funny man, great advice

Thats funny, pot kettle black.

Coming from someone involved in the real estate business I wouldnt have expected anything less.

At least his avatar shows his intent, does yours?

I very rarley deal with developers, any properties I list are checked for ownership or tenancy and as such copies of all are held at my office for inspection. I do not load prices and refuse to list properties unless a vendor agrees to a valuation by us. Yes there are many bad agents/brokers but there are a few that play by the rules, and in that brings repeat customers and recomendations. What annoys me is the hard core members on here that spout off the same rubbish each time a thread on buying comes along just because they havnt the money to buy themselves. Renting suits some, buying suits others, I dont understand the big deal, and saying its trying to warn the naive is utter poppycock.

Awesome post.

"and saying its trying to warn the naive is utter poppycock."

By your own admission,

"Yes there are many bad agents/brokers"

"do not load prices"

"there are a few that play by the rules"

What rules would that be?

What about the many that dont play by the rules?

Your choise of profession is of no concern to me.

The services you peddle are of no concern to me.

If someone chooses to buy or not buy is of no concern to me.

If someone chooses to rent is of no concern to me.

In an industry awash with spivs conmen wideboys and former barrow boys is it any wonder posters urge the unwary to tread with care and exercise due diligence.

"because they havnt the money to buy themselves"

The finances or lack of, of people who post on here are of no concern to me, frankly I am surprised you can judge posters finances, still never mind.

For the record I believe the OP would be better advised to buy a property in Bkk and rent it out, then use his rental income to rent a property in Pattaya.

PS, still waiting on you enlightening us as to where these properties returning 8% are to be found.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Why do people assume that if you think it is a bad time to buy a condo then you must be poor and/or jealous of others who can buy? Believe me, I have enough money to buy a nice condo. I choose not to do so for all of the reasons that have been presented on this thread. Are there positives about Pattaya-Jomtien? Yes, but, to me, the negatives far outweigh the positives. I do not want to be trapped there when reality kicks in.

[JSixpack]

Why do people assume that if you think it is a bad time to buy a condo then you must be poor and/or jealous of others who can buy? Believe me, I have enough money to buy a nice condo. I choose not to do so for all of the reasons that have been presented on this thread. Are there positives about Pattaya-Jomtien? Yes, but, to me, the negatives far outweigh the positives. I do not want to be trapped there when reality kicks in.

Yeah, you been choosing not to for the last 15 years, just paying rent when you could have more than doubled that money you've paid in rent. I was here during the '97 reality check and am so glad I was.

Even if you own a property, you are never "trapped." Another ridiculous exaggeration.

Thought you were moving to Bang Chang anyway, or is choosing to stay here anyway no matter what the same as being "trapped?"

Edited October 2, 2012 by JSixpack

[candid]

DON'T! Rent and then if the neighbours from hell move in you can move. If you lose your view you can move. If the Baht depreciates you will feel ecstatic and if you ever decide to leave you can simply walk away....

And your avatar puts you as an IFA............thats funny man, great advice

Thats funny, pot kettle black.

Coming from someone involved in the real estate business I wouldnt have expected anything less.

At least his avatar shows his intent, does yours?

I very rarley deal with developers, any properties I list are checked for ownership or tenancy and as such copies of all are held at my office for inspection. I do not load prices and refuse to list properties unless a vendor agrees to a valuation by us. Yes there are many bad agents/brokers but there are a few that play by the rules, and in that brings repeat customers and recomendations. What annoys me is the hard core members on here that spout off the same rubbish each time a thread on buying comes along just because they havnt the money to buy themselves. Renting suits some, buying suits others, I dont understand the big deal, and saying its trying to warn the naive is utter poppycock.

I don't know if I qualify as hard core but I certainly could buy a condo or house if I wanted to. I chose not to for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, I was scammed by a developer who was also a biggie in the Pattaya Real Estate market in 2006. I took legal action and won my case(along with many others) but have very little chance of seeing any money. The court system in Pattaya is rather lengthy and allows for many delays. I therefore have little reason to believe anything which comes from an estate agent's lips.

Secondly, I believe that any money to be made on condos was made before 2007-2008. Before that, the exchange rates made it rather attractive. Also prior to the 2007-2008 period, you had a better chance of a building actually being finished and handed over.

Thirdly, condo buying and living has lost it's attraction for many people. Even rock bottom priced developments have not been completed (as evidenced by the Suan Sawarn fiasco) but the developer is free to start fleecing people at will.

[breadbin]

if a property is cheap enough, i mean cheap that a good deal if you can sell it.

[candid]

if a property is cheap enough, i mean cheap that a good deal if you can sell it.

You want to sell cheap? Good investment strategy that

[Rimmer]

Off topic personal attack on another member removed.

Please end this bickering now.

[breadbin]

if a property is cheap enough, i mean cheap that a good deal if you can sell it.

You want to sell cheap? Good investment strategy that

Didn't mean that, I meant if you buy cheap its a good deal as long as you can sell it. BTW how as Eton as you are obvioulsy more intelligent that me?