To Invest A Condo In Pattaya. Will It Be A Good Investment?

[lovetotravel]

If you have a family here and you want to ensure thay have something when you are gone then sure why not buy.

Now I have run out of reasons for buying property in Thailand.

Everything is really stacked against a foreigner buying property here so I can see no other valid reason for buying other than what i already mentioned.

Better to rent here and invest in your home country where you have some rules that protect you and you have much more possibility of making a good investment return.

I am not saying you cant make money here on property investments but it is not easy and the place is littered with people who didnt make money and who cant sell their existing property.

Naitives of USA, most of UK, Spain and parts of Europe would disagree considering prices have dropped North of 50% in some areas...dosnt make Thailand suitable for everyone but the above isnt a particulary good alternative.

Prices are rising in the US and it's a great place to invest now. Plus, not all places had prices drop by 50%. Some places barely changed.

[smedly]

If you have a family here and you want to ensure thay have something when you are gone then sure why not buy.

Now I have run out of reasons for buying property in Thailand.

Everything is really stacked against a foreigner buying property here so I can see no other valid reason for buying other than what i already mentioned.

Better to rent here and invest in your home country where you have some rules that protect you and you have much more possibility of making a good investment return.

I am not saying you cant make money here on property investments but it is not easy and the place is littered with people who didnt make money and who cant sell their existing property.

Naitives of USA, most of UK, Spain and parts of Europe would disagree considering prices have dropped North of 50% in some areas...dosnt make Thailand suitable for everyone but the above isnt a particulary good alternative.

Prices are rising in the US and it's a great place to invest now. Plus, not all places had prices drop by 50%. Some places barely changed.

and do you understand what you just said ?

would you like me to spell it out for you or maybe just read back a few posts

If it wasn't for stupid cash rich falangs coming here and being suckersed into overpriced property here the picture would be very different

Most people when they buy property in the west it involves a financial institution of some sort putting up the dosh over 20+ years - called a mortgage, along with that comes regulation - valuation etc.......here it is mostly falangs paying what they think or what they are told is the right price

if you want to price a brick and a sliver of cement and how much to put it on the brick then you will know the true value of property here

[toenail]

If one plans to live here...10 years or more, yes, buying a condo would make sense, but most likely will not bring in a profit when re-selling (unless it is right on the sea). The problem with Pattaya (especially) is that the city government is not keeping up with the infrastruture... lack of sewage systems (Example:some of the condo projects on Thapisit Hill have to have the sewage pumped out into trucks due to no sewage system), more and more raw sewage flowing into Pattaya Bay; a serious water crisis in the future just like there was 7 years ago because of not enough water resevoir, and needless to say anything with the lack of enforcing building codes or zoning laws (if there are any). Malaysia would be the place to invest an apartment. The only drawing card of Pattaya compared to other places is its night life and for those who are desperate for a ATM chasing "girlfriend".

[lovetotravel]

<snip>

if you want to price a brick and a sliver of cement and how much to put it on the brick then you will know the true value of property here

What about the value of the land? Empty, Pattaya's is worth way more than Nakon Nowhere. And way more than most other areas in SE Asia. Supply and demand.

[lovetotravel]

If one plans to live here...10 years or more, yes, buying a condo would make sense, but most likely will not bring in a profit when re-selling (unless it is right on the sea). The problem with Pattaya (especially) is that the city government is not keeping up with the infrastruture... lack of sewage systems (Example:some of the condo projects on Thapisit Hill have to have the sewage pumped out into trucks due to no sewage system), more and more raw sewage flowing into Pattaya Bay; a serious water crisis in the future just like there was 7 years ago because of not enough water resevoir, and needless to say anything with the lack of enforcing building codes or zoning laws (if there are any). Malaysia would be the place to invest an apartment. The only drawing card of Pattaya compared to other places is its night life and for those who are desperate for a ATM chasing "girlfriend".

Pattaya, like most other growing cities in SE Asia, has done a horrible job with infrastructure. I read about the water shortage in Sattahip. Lots needs to be done.

I looked at Malaysia. Just didn't seem fun to me. But that's my personal opinion. I've been married for quite some time now, but still like Pattaya. I wish the beaches were cleaner, and less traffic. But traffic is a problem in any large city. And I prefer larger cities to smaller ones.

If you have a 10 year horizon and nowhere else to invest your money, then Pattaya is an OK option. At least you don't have to pay rent and deal with a landlord.

[Rimmer]

Please do not alter a quote in your reply and that includes altering the colour it is against forum rules and it will likely be removed.

[Asiantravel]

If one plans to live here...10 years or more, yes, buying a condo would make sense, but most likely will not bring in a profit when re-selling (unless it is right on the sea). The problem with Pattaya (especially) is that the city government is not keeping up with the infrastruture... lack of sewage systems (Example:some of the condo projects on Thapisit Hill have to have the sewage pumped out into trucks due to no sewage system), more and more raw sewage flowing into Pattaya Bay; a serious water crisis in the future just like there was 7 years ago because of not enough water resevoir, and needless to say anything with the lack of enforcing building codes or zoning laws (if there are any). Malaysia would be the place to invest an apartment. The only drawing card of Pattaya compared to other places is its night life and for those who are desperate for a ATM chasing "girlfriend".

Pattaya, like most other growing cities in SE Asia, has done a horrible job with infrastructure. I read about the water shortage in Sattahip. Lots needs to be done.

I looked at Malaysia. Just didn't seem fun to me. But that's my personal opinion. I've been married for quite some time now, but still like Pattaya. I wish the beaches were cleaner, and less traffic. But traffic is a problem in any large city. And I prefer larger cities to smaller ones.

If you have a 10 year horizon and nowhere else to invest your money, then Pattaya is an OK option. At least you don't have to pay rent and deal with a landlord.

Under normal conditions perhaps. But you nor anyone else has any idea how the expat community and indeed demand by overseas buyers would be affected if there was a major Middle East war which is looking increasingly more likely everyday.

When the risk of war has dissipated then yes perhaps but a war which could involve not just the Middle East but Russia and China could have very unpredictable consequences even on world travel.

Buying a property at this point in time particularly when the rest of the world is so subdued economically seems like an unnecessary risk.

The name of the game at this point in time is as much flexibility as possible and that doesn't include having what could be an albatross around your neck.

[JSixpack]

If you have a 10 year horizon and nowhere else to invest your money, then Pattaya is an OK option. At least you don't have to pay rent and deal with a landlord.

Under normal conditions perhaps. But you nor anyone else has any idea how the expat community and indeed demand by overseas buyers would be affected if there was a major Middle East war which is looking increasingly more likely everyday.

You've missed the point. If you plan to live in your condo for 10 years as lovetotravel said, then you're still living in it safely during the feared Middle East war--so it doesn't matter.

But have you considered global warming yet or an asteroid hitting the earth?

[Rimmer]

I lived in Singapore for 22 years and paid an average rent of S$2500 a month, maybe some one with a calculator would like to work out how much I wasted over that period in Thai Baht.

I have learnt my lesson and no longer pay rent

[londoedan]

I lived in Singapore for 22 years and paid an average rent of S$2500 a month, maybe some one with a calculator would like to work out how much I wasted over that period in Thai Baht.

I have learnt my lesson and no longer pay rent

True that, but could you have ever afforded to buy somewhere in Sing ? I know I couldn't; decent new developments at the moment seem to start at 1M S$ ! Lovely place to live but property prices are a shocker.

[Asiantravel]

If you have a 10 year horizon and nowhere else to invest your money, then Pattaya is an OK option. At least you don't have to pay rent and deal with a landlord.

Under normal conditions perhaps. But you nor anyone else has any idea how the expat community and indeed demand by overseas buyers would be affected if there was a major Middle East war which is looking increasingly more likely everyday.

You've missed the point. If you plan to live in your condo for 10 years as lovetotravel said, then you're still living in it safely during the feared Middle East war--so it doesn't matter.

But have you considered global warming yet or an asteroid hitting the earth?

You might be living in it comfortably but when oil prices double or triple how can you tell how badly this city will be affected by lack of tourism?

Yes and I'm not one of those kinds of people to give my money to Bernie Madoff characters either

Edited October 15, 2012 by Asiantravel

[davesnothere]

Just looking and trying to get my head around the real value of a condos worth and I am thinking of using Kbank to finance it.

Has anyone had experience in how tight the banks are in their valuation of condos? ...for example they offer to lend 80% of the valuation on a 1,000,000 baht condo, how often do they come back to you and say their valuation comes in at 750,000 baht? thus making you aware of the true market value, or are they inclined just to go with the flow?

[TruthEyes]

Having owned a condo for 7 years now in Pattaya, my gut feeling is I will never be able to sell it, even at low end market value.

Some times I have been able to rent it out and made a few baht, other times rent it out and got scammed by the estate agent, and then their are all the common fees, maintenance and utility charges, etc.

Also there is the continual outside noise, and the noise generated inside from other owners doing renovations, upgrades etc.

And then the next developer builds one each side, and the next developer one behind and then one in front.

Forget it mate, minefield, rent a place, most flexible

[Tolley]

Having owned a condo for 7 years now in Pattaya, my gut feeling is I will never be able to sell it, even at low end market value.

Some times I have been able to rent it out and made a few baht, other times rent it out and got scammed by the estate agent, and then their are all the common fees, maintenance and utility charges, etc.

Also there is the continual outside noise, and the noise generated inside from other owners doing renovations, upgrades etc.

And then the next developer builds one each side, and the next developer one behind and then one in front.

Forget it mate, minefield, rent a place, most flexible

One of the biggest problems with the large condo developments is the fact that someone is always renovating and it is terribly noisy. Great waking up every morning to nosiy workmen.

[JSixpack]

If you have a 10 year horizon and nowhere else to invest your money, then Pattaya is an OK option. At least you don't have to pay rent and deal with a landlord.

Under normal conditions perhaps. But you nor anyone else has any idea how the expat community and indeed demand by overseas buyers would be affected if there was a major Middle East war which is looking increasingly more likely everyday.

You've missed the point. If you plan to live in your condo for 10 years as lovetotravel said, then you're still living in it safely during the feared Middle East war--so it doesn't matter.

But have you considered global warming yet or an asteroid hitting the earth?

You might be living in it comfortably but when oil prices double or triple how can you tell how badly this city will be affected by lack of tourism?

Lemme see. Half the bars and go-gos will close, leaving only 1,000 from which to choose. TQ doing fine. 300 baht buses taken off the road. Traffic and parking, no more problems. Foodland, Tesco, movie theatres still open and less crowded. Crazy Dave's, Kiss, Jolly Friar, Goose's--our TV expat eating havens--doing fine. Songran cut back to 3 days!

WHAT a disaster for those living in their condos for 10 years or more!

[davesnothere]

So maybe the real value in condo investment is in lifestyle and the possiblity of a tax write off rather than short to medium term capital gain?....

[JSixpack]

So maybe the real value in condo investment is in lifestyle and the possiblity of a tax write off rather than short to medium term capital gain?....

Well, I dunno about any tax write off for anything.

Lifestyle, yes. Capital gains, iffy. A cheap condo away from the beach, you'll probably recover your initial investment if you keep it long enough. More difficult to rent out, so you'd better be living there; that way, at least you're recovering rent money otherwise lost. Some--richer than I am--just like having their own vacation home and aren't worried much about a capital loss or rental income.

Nice beachfront condo, very likely rentable, higher class of neighbors, capital gains likely but hardly guaranteed. Partly depends on currency fluctuations.

The cautions mentioned in the thread apply. Rent in the complex for a while, talk to other owners, check out the management, etc. Due diligence highly important.

[Asiantravel]

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^, serves you right you mug.

One word, greed, thought you could make a quick buck by flipping it, som nam na.

Who in their right mind would pay cash upfront for something that doesnt even exist?

If you cant see it or touch it, dont touch it with a bargepole.

[IamNotaNumber]

What a plonker!

I think there's only one thing anyone needs to remember: the likelihood that any white person selling Pattya property is telling lies is only slightly less than the likelihood of the sun rising tomorrow morning.

Lies, damned lies and real estate agents.

[Ohio]

I do know one fact that several Condos I looked at for sale 2 + tears ago are the same ones an Agent just offered to show us on our coming trip.

[Asiantravel]

I do know one fact that several Condos I looked at for sale 2 + tears ago are the same ones an Agent just offered to show us on our coming trip.

So are the asking prices you are being quoted now for these same properties higher, lower or equal to what they were 2 + years ago?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Asiantravel

[watcharacters]

An interesting range of comments here. I paid 3 million for my "concrete coffin" over 6 years ago which luckily at the time equated to 50,000 GBP. Now i did gather my thoughts and compared that to what a 100 sq m apartment would cost on the English coast or Med, a bargain i thought. I have had 6 happy years here so far and hope to have many more. If i had not bought but rented or stayed in hotels around the world i'm sure i would have already spent close to that 50,000. Even if i sold at half the purchase price i would still come out ahead.

Well said Chris.

Mind giving an estimate on a realistic value of your place in todays market?

[watcharacters]

I do know one fact that several Condos I looked at for sale 2 + tears ago are the same ones an Agent just offered to show us on our coming trip.

So are the asking prices you are being quoted now for these same properties higher, lower or equal to what they were 2 + years ago?

I live across the street from a house owned by the developer that's been empty for four years. It's never been occupied or sold. The asking price has never dropped.

Thais don't seem willing to drop prices in accordance to limited interest or demand.

[how241]

Keep your money in the bank. To many properties getting built not enough buyers.

I agree with this.

[JSixpack]

Keep your money in the bank. To many properties getting built not enough buyers.

I agree with this.

Just to give you Chicken Littles something to sneer at:

"Meanwhile, Chon Buri province - both Pattaya and Sri Racha districts - continues to see strong demand for vacation residences, according to a survey by the Agency for Real Estate Affairs (AREA)."

Property market hot in Hua Hin, Chon Buri - The Nation

http://www.nationmul...i-30180040.html

Edited October 17, 2012 by JSixpack

[Ohio]

I do know one fact that several Condos I looked at for sale 2 + tears ago are the same ones an Agent just offered to show us on our coming trip.

SAME

[Asiantravel]

Keep your money in the bank. To many properties getting built not enough buyers.

I agree with this.

Just to give you Chicken Littles something to sneer at:

"Meanwhile, Chon Buri province - both Pattaya and Sri Racha districts - continues to see strong demand for vacation residences, according to a survey by the Agency for Real Estate Affairs (AREA)."

Property market hot in Hua Hin, Chon Buri - The Nation

http://www.nationmul...i-30180040.html

Wow you are really trying to push the positive spin hard aren't you even though you are

clearly swimming against the tide of sentiment in this forum.

Obviously those that have come to the conclusion that keeping one's money in the bank have a totally

unbiased perspective.

so what is your agenda?

You must be an agent or are you one of those desperate vendors trying to sell your own place?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Asiantravel

[JSixpack]

Keep your money in the bank. To many properties getting built not enough buyers.

I agree with this.

Just to give you Chicken Littles something to sneer at:

"Meanwhile, Chon Buri province - both Pattaya and Sri Racha districts - continues to see strong demand for vacation residences, according to a survey by the Agency for Real Estate Affairs (AREA)."

Property market hot in Hua Hin, Chon Buri - The Nation

http://www.nationmul...i-30180040.html

Wow you are really trying to push the positive spin hard aren't you even though you are

clearly swimming against the tide of sentiment in this forum.

Obviously those that have come to the conclusion that keeping one's money in the bank have a totally

unbiased perspective.

so what is your agenda?

You must be an agent or are you one of those desperate vendors trying to sell your own place?

Yawn. Anyone positive about some aspects of the real estate market here--just some, not all, and based on reasonable evidence--will always be accused of being a real estate agent by our forum Chicken Littles, who must hail from gloomy climates. These threads recur every few months; the same things are always said. In fact, even before there was a thaivisa.com, letter writers in the Pattaya Mail regularly proclaimed the "last nail in the coffin" had just been driven into Pattaya and "the goose who laid the golden eggs" was on his deathbed.

Me, I'm quite comfortable and set up. My most desperate issue recently was that of making homemade natural peanut butter. I succeeded.

My agenda--thank you for your interest--is, first, recreational: to point out and laugh at the daily nonsense posted on the forum, of which there's never any shortage. I particularly enjoy deflating know-it-alls and blowhards. Secondly I try to be helpful towards the sincere and reasonable posters when possible, often offering an alternative viewpoint to the standard and typical.

Edited October 17, 2012 by JSixpack

[Asiantravel]

Just to give you Chicken Littles something to sneer at:

"Meanwhile, Chon Buri province - both Pattaya and Sri Racha districts - continues to see strong demand for vacation residences, according to a survey by the Agency for Real Estate Affairs (AREA)."

Property market hot in Hua Hin, Chon Buri - The Nation

http://www.nationmul...i-30180040.html

Wow you are really trying to push the positive spin hard aren't you even though you are

clearly swimming against the tide of sentiment in this forum.

Obviously those that have come to the conclusion that keeping one's money in the bank have a totally

unbiased perspective.

so what is your agenda?

You must be an agent or are you one of those desperate vendors trying to sell your own place?

Yawn. Anyone positive about some aspects of the real estate market here--just some, not all, and based on reasonable evidence--will always be accused of being a real estate agent by our forum Chicken Littles, who must hail from gloomy climates. These threads recur every few months; the same things are always said. In fact, even before there was a thaivisa.com, letter writers in the Pattaya Mail regularly proclaimed the "last nail in the coffin" had just been driven into Pattaya and "the goose who laid the golden eggs" was on his deathbed.

Me, I'm quite comfortable and set up. My most desperate issue recently was that of making homemade natural peanut butter. I succeeded.

My agenda--thank you for your interest--is, first, recreational: to point out and laugh at the daily nonsense posted on the forum, of which there's never any shortage. I particularly enjoy deflating know-it-alls and blowhards. Secondly I try to be helpful towards the sincere and reasonable posters when possible, often offering an alternative viewpoint to the standard and typical.

You don't have to be a ' know-it-all or" blowhard ' to realise a big part of the Pattaya condo market has been nothing more than a gigantic Ponzi scheme.

The greater fool theory

The greater fool theory (also called survivor investing) is the belief held by one who makes a questionable investment, with the assumption that they will be able to sell it later to "a greater fool"; in other words, buying something not because you believe that it is worth the price, but rather because you believe that you will be able to sell it to someone else at an even higher price

Edited October 17, 2012 by Asiantravel