Marxist Group Small But Big On Ideas

[Lite Beer]

Marxist group small but big on ideas

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on sunday September 30, 2012 1:00 am

BANGKOK: -- There is a group, little known to the general public, whose members must observe rules that include: "Every member must read the newsletter and help sell it to the public. Members must also participate in 'group studies' at least once a month."

This may sound like an edict from a fundamentalist religious group or cult, but it is in fact part of the rules for members of the Thai Marxist group Liew Sai, or Turn Left.

The group has only 10 active members but they are confident they are making some impact, even if most members of the general public may never have heard of it before.

As for the rules, Patchanee Kumnak, a 35-year-old bespectacled and shy-looking member, said some members may not have read all the articles in each issue of the news letter, which is sold by members at various political symposiums and gatherings at Bt20 per issue - but that's okay. Three hundred copies are published of each edition.

As for the resemblance to religious fundamentalism, Patchanee said she and other members have faith - not in God, but in human progress. And the rules, she said, are a "tradition" that has been passed down over the years.

"Each member must be able to analyse politics and we encourage every member to present topics during group study," said Patchanee, who came from a humble background but managed to finish her postgraduate degree in politics at Chulalongkorn University.

Patchanee said not enough is being said about this labour movement, a genuine political party that belongs to the people, although issues like the welfare state, which the group has been advocating for years, are now part of the mainstream political discourse. They also believe that genuine political struggle must be based on organised struggle, and not on a single or a few charismatic leaders. The Thai capitalist system, she said, has blinded the public from seeing the issue of class consciousness and class exploitation which continue to exist, even with many saying that communism is dead.

This, she explains, is one of the major reasons why there was never anything like the Occupy Wall Street movement in Thailand, although something similar occurred in Hong Kong.

One of its key former members, former political science lecturer-cum-Marxist activist Ji Ungparkorn, left the group after he fled to England to escape a possible lese majeste charge a few years ago. But today, Turn Left is determined to make a political difference, even if it takes a bit longer.

"As a group we may be small, but as a thinking group, we influence ideas," Patchanee told The Nation.

Patchanee said that although the group tries to spread its influence among the so-called progressive parts of the red shirt movement, she said many reds continued to behave more like members of "fan clubs" of their political leaders.

Instead of having "fans", said Boonphin Sunthrarak, 57, a factory worker in Samut Prakan province and another member, there are close to a thousand supporters of the group, and he believes Turn Left can contribute more to society in the future

-- The Nation 2012-09-30

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Great, just what Thailand needs, what's next Thai Fascists?

[asiawatcher]

Marxists or socialists, anything to do with politics in Thailand is simply subject to corruption for survival. And the mouse continues to run in the wheel going nowhere fast.

[tomross46]

Are they red shirts?

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Great, just what Thailand needs, what's next Thai Fascists?

Forgot, there is already one group dressed in brown in Thailand, and they behave very similar to the fascists.

[DocN]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

[JemJem]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

Nice one !

I am not a communist but as a hardcore anti-fascist social democrat, I like and appreciate the quote above.

[ballpoint]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

Each to his own, but you'll never catch me in a humanitarian restaurant.

[jayboy]

Great, just what Thailand needs, what's next Thai Fascists?

Already got them in case you hadn't noticed.

[davejones]

Is this some kind of joke or troll thread?

[Om85]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

[Thai at Heart]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

Well one couldn't say it is actively flourishing either?

[yoshiwara]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

Sounds like a right-wing Menshevik to me.

[ags83]

The entire problem (everywhere in the world) is governments stealing from the population (which is what will always happen when a certain group of people are given a licence to steal).....how exactly is giving more power to the government going to help....

It is scary that these are the ideas that people turn to in times of trouble. People, economies and markets need freedom to improve, not more oppression from groups of corrupt elites.

Edited September 30, 2012 by ags83

[Bluespunk]

Communism is dead, Marxism is not. Communism was a form of Marxism (some would say a corrupted one) which tried to bring about social equality from above and in most cases by force. It generally turned into the thing it originally sought to overcome. The philosophy Marx exposed is still as valid as any other form of political philosophy, whether it is valid or not is another question. Nice to see that it can still inspire others to work towards a better world.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Bluespunk

[hellodolly]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a communist for humanitarian ideological reasons! You can not be a fascist for humanitarian reasons!

[davejones]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

It's not possible to have Marxism AND freedom, so you'll have to drop one of them.

[davejones]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

Nice one !

I am not a communist but as a hardcore anti-fascist social democrat, I like and appreciate the quote above.

What's the difference between a social democrat and an anti-fascist social democrat? Are some social democrats also fascists?

Edited September 30, 2012 by davejones

[Om85]

Communism is dead, Marxism is not. Communism was a form of Marxism (some would say a corrupted one) which tried to bring about social equality from above and in most cases by force. It generally turned into the thing it originally sought to overcome. The philosophy Marx exposed is still as valid as any other form of political philosophy, whether it is valid or not is another question. Nice to see that it can still inspire others to work towards a better world.

Agree with you, Communism has proven not to be the answer , neither capitalism and it concept of "democracy" which is just an illusion, I think that the problem with communism is that it has been imposed by force, I believe in talking to people and show them that a better world is possible, a world in which people can have the same opportunities to develop their potential, not a world based on exploitation and consumerism, a world in which people and not profits are the most important thing.

[Om85]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

It's not possible to have Marxism AND freedom, so you'll have to drop one of them.

Who told you that, Marxism and Communism is not the same.

[DocN]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a communist for humanitarian ideological reasons! You can not be a fascist for humanitarian reasons!

a) no, that is definately not what was said

b ) do not confuse the reality with the theory. The later is, what was talked about!

[ags83]

Agree with you, Communism has proven not to be the answer , neither capitalism and it concept of "democracy" which is just an illusion, I think that the problem with communism is that it has been imposed by force, I believe in talking to people and show them that a better world is possible, a world in which people can have the same opportunities to develop their potential, not a world based on exploitation and consumerism, a world in which people and not profits are the most important thing.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy. Also what we have now is not 'true' capitalism, not even close. All capitalism really is is the acceptance of property rights, which creates an incentive for people to work and leads to society gaining more material wealth (which in turn generally leads to greater happiness, although it is only a part of it).

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Definition of Socialists and Fascist (and of other groups that want to steal your dreams and blind your eyes)

A SOCIALIST: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

AN AMERICAN REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

AN AMERICAN DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.

A COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk.

A FASCIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create clever cow cartoon images called Cowkimon and market them World-Wide.

A GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

A BRITISH CORPORATION: You have two cows. They are mad. They die. Pass the shepherd's pie, please.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A SWISS CORPORATION: You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you. You charge others for storing them.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation declares bankruptcy.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You worship both of them.

A CHINESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim full employment, high bovine productivity, and arrest the newsman who reported on them.

AN ISRAELI CORPORATION: There are these two Jewish cows, right? They open a milk factory, an ice cream store, and then sell the movie rights. They send their calves to Harvard to become doctors. So, who needs people?

[pedro01]

10 people? lol - more than that have replied to this thread.

Perhaps in tomorrows Nation, they'll have an article about the "movement" participating on this thread.

[JemJem]

I don't know, who said it, but is true: you can be a comunist for humanitarian reasons! You can not be a facist for humanitarian reasons!

Nice one !

I am not a communist but as a hardcore anti-fascist social democrat, I like and appreciate the quote above.

What's the difference between a social democrat and an anti-fascist social democrat? Are some social democrats also fascists?

No; it's just that I wanted to EMPHASIZE the fact that I am a hardcore anti-fascist and that I take the threat of fascism very seriously (some social democrats are a bit ignorant on this issue). I mean, look at the current situation in Greece. The fascist party, Golden Dawn, keeps increasing its percentage. Latest polls put Golden Dawn at close to 10 percent ! Fascism had never had much support in Greece till a few years ago. There are similar recent gains by fascist parties in some other countries in Europe.

Also, look at what's been happening in Russia in recent years. The fascists there haven't formed into a strong political party but there have been many incidents of neo-Nazi thugs killing and wounding immigrants and human rights activists. Putin has been way too weak in dealing with fascists.

Edited September 30, 2012 by JemJem

[Farma]

There are communist groups dotted around the country. An area near the Chong Mek border sees occasional communist activity. Another area to the S.E of Det Udon is occupied by former communists convinced to give up their ideals with offers of free land by the Govt. Another group if you could call them communists or a cult are led by a former senior army officer. They have an area near Khantharalak closed to outsiders. They live by the rules of the leader and survive by selling home made produce.

[yoshiwara]

Is not difficult to understand why they think as they do, the problem is not the economy, is not the people, the problem is the system, I am a marxist myself and a humanist, but I am not communist, I believe in freedom of speech, and in all the freedoms, but those who think that communism is dead, they are fooling themselves.

It's not possible to have Marxism AND freedom, so you'll have to drop one of them.

Who told you that, Marxism and Communism is not the same.

Is that why, in the Preamble to the Communist Manifesto, Marx says: 'It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself.'

[rakman]

What ever the political persuasion, it is all about power, how to retain it and milk the benefits for the ruling class. How you get the non-eliite (non-government officials) to go along is done in 3 ways:

1) terrorize them into submission, while keeping them uneducated

2) give away the largess of others, or borrow from even dumber people who'll buy your bonds, to give to the dumb masses while keeping them uneducated

3) educate them, create and maintain an honorable capitalist republic with a populace, rich and poor, that understands the rule of law, and is fairly applied to all.

Seeing the recent Thai history, neither the red or yellow shirts adhere to an honorable rule of law, nor desire to educate the masses. In addition, it would seem the red shirts appear to be the more violent of the two.

Having a Constitution that can be easily changed on whim of the newly elected is just dictatorship with a longer time span.

[yoshiwara]

Agree with you, Communism has proven not to be the answer , neither capitalism and it concept of "democracy" which is just an illusion, I think that the problem with communism is that it has been imposed by force, I believe in talking to people and show them that a better world is possible, a world in which people can have the same opportunities to develop their potential, not a world based on exploitation and consumerism, a world in which people and not profits are the most important thing.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy. Also what we have now is not 'true' capitalism, not even close. All capitalism really is is the acceptance of property rights, which creates an incentive for people to work and leads to society gaining more material wealth (which in turn generally leads to greater happiness, although it is only a part of it).

Communism is not achieved by a cosy little chat. Democracy may be bourgeois democratic but it has proved to be the most durable to date.

[noitom]

Communism looks like it may be on life support in Thailand. The Thai elites better marshall up the forces of the Village Scouts again and get them into action to defend against a communist threat.