A Million Dollars Net Worth In Thailand

[Scully]

Hi Scully

Its always best to invest using finance as well as a depsite.

For example, I invest 1 mill and borrow 3 mill. Lets say the apartment rents for 25k and the mortgage is 15k, then overpay the morgage. 20 years later you have an apartment for 1mill plus whatever upkeep costs you spent.

Though in this case, I am not looking to speculate or rent however, I want to have the option to rent it later if I get bored of keeping it.

Cheers

I really don't see your logic, you have cash which is not working hard enough for you.

Why not buy outright and pocket the full 25k, in 20 years you will have a property which cost you nothing with profit on top.

You will be paying a high percentage to borrow money while you have cash sitting there that is giving you a low percentage.

I can understand it if you don't want cash tying up for investment in the future though. Good luck.

[DonW]

Hi Scully

Its always best to invest using finance as well as a depsite.

For example, I invest 1 mill and borrow 3 mill. Lets say the apartment rents for 25k and the mortgage is 15k, then overpay the morgage. 20 years later you have an apartment for 1mill plus whatever upkeep costs you spent.

Though in this case, I am not looking to speculate or rent however, I want to have the option to rent it later if I get bored of keeping it.

Cheers

I really don't see your logic, you have cash which is not working hard enough for you.

Why not buy outright and pocket the full 25k, in 20 years you will have a property which cost you nothing with profit on top.

You will be paying a high percentage to borrow money while you have cash sitting there that is giving you a low percentage.

I can understand it if you don't want cash tying up for investment in the future though. Good luck.

You use someone else's cash to work for you - in this case the banks and a potential renter.

You say my cash is not working hard enough, well, if its invested in an apartment it cant be invested elsewhere so if you use someone elses cash in the apartment (bank and renter) then even if my capital is doing just 4%, thats 4$ it wouldnt have been doing if it was invested in the apartment (instead of the banks cash and the renter paying the bank for me!)

I have a friend in the UK with 10 buy to lets, he has on average 30k invested in each property and the other 150k for each place is via a bank. So, renters pay the banks for him. Can you see the logic? He has perhaps another 300k elsewhere in bonds etc but essentially renters pay his mortgage. in 15 years time, they'll have paid off the 10 properties.

[Scully]

Yes I can see the logic because to have 10 properties in the UK funded by a bank as you need to have millions of UK pounds to fund it.

It's comparing apples with pears.

You are buying 1 Thai property for a relatively cheap price compared to your cash holding.

Getting a mortgage you borrow say 4 million baht and over its life you pay back around 8.

The renter will be paying you the rent not the bank.

[DonW]

Out of interest, what do you do for a living Scully?

[loong]

I understand that most buildings in Thailand only have a 20 to 30 year lifespan.

Would a condo still have any value by the time the loan is paid off?

I have heard of people with old condos being faced with excessive refurbishment costs from the condo management but that is 2nd hand info, so I don't know if true or not.

[Scully]

Out of interest, what do you do for a living Scully?

Own a business in UK.

Anyway you seem like you have made up your mind about a mortgage so that's your choice

[DonW]

Cheers Scully. I see your point too.

[jacktrip]

IMO theres a strong smell of Troll emanating from the OP as I have seen his original post word for word on another thailand forum and he seems to be getting similar reactions from members on there as well !

I believe that guys who start threads like this (with their "alleged" wealth right in the thread title) are not looking for help or advice at all. They are in fact trolling these forums, thinking that there are hot, young, desperate Thai women out there who would take the bait. So transparent and pathetic.

or it's people trying to get PM's from those that need money, loans etc. as a lead in to a bait and switch. thailand is full of these types of scammers and 'petty deal' blokes.

[HerbalEd]

FWIW ...

You most likely won't actually get $1M when you cash in.

One-million dollars doesn't go as far as you probably think/wish ... and in 30 years from now, the money won't go anywhere near as far as it does now. IOW, you always need much more money than you think.

And finally ... Based upon a lot of what you say, I'd never hire anyone like you. No offense ... you're probably a very nice guy, but probably not a good employee.

[hotandhumid]

These types of threads are vulgar and cringeworthy and there seems to be a few of them recently.

A bunch of strangers on a internet forum discussing the finances of somebody they don't even know.

YUK!

The vast majority of posters here are existing on 30-40k a month, living in a shoebox, eating noodles and riding baht buses, then you get these types of threads. It doesn't sit well and the OP should be a bit more sensitive about people here who barely survive here reading this nonsense and making themselves feel even worse. And for the record, no I am not one of these people thankfully.

Mods need to start locking these types of threads.

Edited October 7, 2012 by hotandhumid

[Spoonman]

I guess one question would be, what exactly do you do?

He operates a polygraph machine, but seems to be lying about his age. one day it is 38 and the next 39.

[dhsg]

Are you looking for investment advice or advice on options as to how to keep yourself active in Thailand? Or interested to find some good projects? What are your qualifications if your looking to do something else other then teach English? If I knew what your talents are I could suggest some connections.

[how241]

I have a million USD in property, savings and investments

The key word is liquidity and the investment mix. I too have a lot of cash, but it pays less than 2% in interest. After tax, I have nothing much., at least not like back in the good old days where I was getting 5%.

Personally, I dont think you have enough of an income to make a go of it in Thailand. Oh sure, there are some that can, but they are at an age where they can draw down on the assets. You are young and should not. The other factor is to consider is your comfort level. If you want a decent standard of living (AC, western toilet, comfortable accomodations, the ability to do as you want like going into the supermarket and buying without concern for the cost) then you had better budget accordingly and determine if you will have the income to support the lifestyle.

It's a personal choice, and one which I would not do. I'm probably wealthier than than the typical TVFer, but I maintain a conservative approach to investments and spending. I won't retire until I have a much larger investment portfolio because I believe that the economy is about to nosedive after the US and German elections. I am risk averse, but there are others that can live with the risk and that are quite happy to live on a shoestring budget or not worry about income. You have to decide what your mental health can sustain. A 65 year old with a modest investment portfolio and pensions is in a much better position to retire than a young person, eeven if the younger person has lots of money.

No one can give you the answer you want. The best that you will be told is to make your decision based upon the stress you can handle and the lifestyle you want.

I agree about not drawing on the assets and that has always been the plan ...I am not a big spender at all and neither is the wife. Essentially, my tastes and comforts are such that I can live on 50k though 100k Thai baht a month is more to my liking.

As for interest, the best I can do now is 4% before tax in the UK and I agree, the 5% no risk before tax just isnt there now (though I think you can squeeze 4.5% before tax and go non-resident).

Good advice, thanks. I too dont want to risk my capital, it was too hard come by!

If you're invested in dollars you should be worried. The way the US is printing them to pay bills, and with a national deficit and debt and unfunded liabilities around $100 trillion, and with the economy still tanking...

It's very possible if not probable that US$1 million will just buy a loaf of bread in about ten years. It's very possible that the West could collectivelly crash into the toilet from deficits and debt and a shrinking economy, taking the emerging economies with them.

Don't worry NeverSure, I already have 30 trillion USD saved up. I might throw you a few bread crumbs from my million dollar bread loaf in 2022 if you're hungry.

Interesting thread.

[Jingjok]

Hi Don

Firstly, I don’t understand why people think you’re a troll – your story sounds convincing to me.

I’m a bit older than you are, spent five years in Thailand, became hugely disenchanted and did what people on here always say: ‘If you don’t like Thailand why don’t you leave?’ Well, I did exactly that. I have one house in Phuket still to sell, everything else has gone. I expect to come out even: five years free holiday, and back where I started financially. Exchange rate fluctuations helped.

But my policy was only to come here once I had a secure offshore income - making much money in Thailand itself is difficult, especially if you’re an honest chap. You say you earn a reasonable income in UK, so rates in Thailand might come as a shock. I was able to run my UK business by remote control – the internet is a wonderful thing – so earn in GBP/USD (at Western rates), but spend in THB. This worked very well. Could you do that?

Your situation appears less secure – could you work when you are inn Thailand? There’s no way you can live out your life on USD 0.5M. The plain fact is it’s not enough. That does not even buy a decent house these days, or certainly not one which will be of the quality to last a lifetime.

If you have a house to sell in the UK, in addition to your offshore investments, maybe that might work, but I’d counsel most strongly against doing that unless you immediately buy further property in a secure and low-tax jurisdiction which you can then rent out, and perhaps live on the income. (Malaysia is good.)

In fact, why Thailand? Why not consider Malaysia (Look up MM2H visa) or Singapore? You can get intelligent conversations and a good job there. You can buy properties freehold (it's effectively still British law ) in your own name. Then have a little holiday place in Thailand for beach weekends? Jump over on Air Asia, it's a doddle. Best of both worlds.

For ‘retirement’ at your age you need to own a property/properties. But absolutely not in Thailand – the legal and cultural framework is unacceptable for so many reasons. (A house to live in, sure, but not an investment portfolio).

Just having USD0.5M offshore is no good: it will gradually get reduced as temptations take their toll, then one day you’ll wake up with a lot less cash and no recovery strategy.

In one line: Don’t do it!

Good luck, Mark

[Jingjok]

Oops! - I mean USD 1.0M, not 0.5M.

Brain malfunction. Same comments apply.

[UKJASE]

just go for it man..... u will do well i am sure

i am from the uk, 41, recently married, and dont have a miilion bucks

we have bought a nice house in a nice area for about £44,000 GBP, and after that can live reasonably cheaply if we want to / wife allows us to..... we live in hua hin and this area is booming it seems..... lots of opportunities for a smart lad like yourself to make some money.... go for it man.... chok dee

[londoedan]

Oops! - I mean USD 1.0M, not 0.5M.

Brain malfunction. Same comments apply.

0.5M US is about 15M baht. Invested and say you can get an average of 5% (that might be a big if).

That would give you about 60K baht per month and you wouldn't be touching the capital: I could live on that .

(plus I'm 49 and none of us are going to live for ever, get to about 65-68 and you can start spending the capital).

[Jingjok]

0.5M US is about 15M baht. Invested and say you can get an average of 5% (that might be a big if).

That would give you about 60K baht per month and you wouldn't be touching the capital: I could live on that .

(plus I'm 49 and none of us are going to live for ever, get to about 65-68 and you can start spending the capital).

OK, let’s guess the OP’s has cash of 0.5M and fixed assets of 0.5M.

And 5%? Where’s that return on cash these days?

More like half that after tax.

But even if you’re right, THB 2,000 per day, for you, wife (? plus child/children) utility bills, house maintenance, vehicle costs, food, clothing, occasional airfares and holidays, tax?

Subsist, maybe, but ‘live’? Naa.

And remember this chap has a good income in the UK so is probably used to a fairly comfortable Western lifestyle. He (and I expect certainly his wife) is unlikely to be some beach-hut loser who could happily spend the rest of his life dossing about and eating noodles.

And he’s bored in the UK; wait until he’s been in Thailand for a few years!

[foxboy]

some people are quite clearly retarded. OP isnt a big spender

Withdraw 20mil baht

10mil baht buys you 1 small condo in the city + 1 small beach house or you can get a massive ranch in the middle of nowhere for those days you need to get away + a decent car

Then spend 5-10mil baht on a bunch of cheap thai accomodations(building them is better), install washing machines, internet computers and your own minimart in front of it.

After that you have 10mil left that you keep invested and you can easily make 100k per month with 10mil baht worth of small thai rooms. Every washing machine will net you about 2-3k per month by itself add to that wifi fees/overcharging electricity by a little bit and those millions of ramen noodles per month from the minimart. Easy money.

I know someone who does that and with only 2 locations he gets about 40-50k.

Too many old idiots who failed here. I had exactly one business here and it cosst me 120k to open and after 2months i was in profit and it netted me 100k per month for barely any work. All you need is someone with half a brain to run it. I sold it to inlaws and now they barely make 40-50k hehe.

Know a few other people who invested very little for big profits here but they were all very inteligent people. All the dumb idiots who taught they could outsmart thais failed though. Seen a lot of them and it was obvious that they'd fail.

good answer and great advice. I've had to read all the accusations of trolling and smart arse comments attacking the OP to get to this post. Unbelievable how cynical people are on these forums. I think you summed it up with 'Too many old idiots who failed here', too quick to knock other people's success or ambition to make a go of it here.

[Orac]

Oops! - I mean USD 1.0M, not 0.5M.

Brain malfunction. Same comments apply.

0.5M US is about 15M baht. Invested and say you can get an average of 5% (that might be a big if).

That would give you about 60K baht per month and you wouldn't be touching the capital: I could live on that .

(plus I'm 49 and none of us are going to live for ever, get to about 65-68 and you can start spending the capital).

The problem there is that to preserve the capital you still need it to increase at the rate of inflation else its value will steadily get whittled down so, once you take your inflation rate off the return which could be higher than the official figure, you potentially could be looking at a negative return.

[bkk_mike]

If you bought your house when you were younger (or inherited your parent's house), and had a decent job and saved a bit, then a million dollars is relatively easy - especially if any of the property is in London...

If you already own property in the UK that's rented out, I'd be inclined to continue to rent it out so long as the after-tax rental income more than covers the mortgage payments. (Admittedly I'm selling a rental property of my own at the moment but that's because the rules on EU residency for student loans means I'm moving back so that my kids can afford to go to University. But I've been out of the country long enough that I'm currently exempt from capital gains tax, so can realise the capital gain tax-free now.)

In the long run, property should rise in line with wages, which should generally rise faster than inflation, so it's usually a good place to put money long term. (But transaction costs are quite high, and prices can fall as well as rise, especially in the short term, and there are additional costs with being a landlord, like leaky plumbing or roofs, etc.) It's also an area where it's relatively easy to use leverage to increase your capital (by having a mortgage that's covered by the rental income).

Alternatively you could buy a range of shares with a reasonable dividend yield and hope the shares rise in line with inflation and the dividends are enough to live on.

[Jingjok]

... I've been out of the country long enough that I'm currently exempt from capital gains tax, so can realise the capital gain tax-free now ...

Is that so?

I thought one needs to remain 'ordinarily resident overseas' (but not necessarily domiciled offshore) for a further four years after the tax year in which the gain occurs to avoid UK CGT.

I'm no tax accountant - but I took advice from my bank and the Revenue about just this point before leaving UK seven years ago. On returning after five years plus, UK assets I'd sold in year one were exempt.

I'm not sure, but suspect anything sold just before becoming resident again may attract the full whack. Care is required!

BTW, your post gives very good advice.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Jingjok

[Melpomene]

... I've been out of the country long enough that I'm currently exempt from capital gains tax, so can realise the capital gain tax-free now ...

Is that so?

I thought one needs to remain 'ordinarily resident overseas' (but not necessarily domiciled offshore) for a further four years after the tax year in which the gain occurs to avoid UK CGT.

I'm no tax accountant - but I took advice from my bank and the Revenue about just this point before leaving UK seven years ago. On returning after five years plus, UK assets I'd sold in year one were exempt.

I'm not sure, but suspect anything sold just before becoming resident again may attract the full whack. Care is required!

BTW, your post gives very good advice.

Sidetracking here a bit I know, but if you'd sold the asset in year 1 wouldn't you have then paid the CGT following your next tax return ? And I too am most definately not a tax accoutant

[Jingjok]

... but if you'd sold the asset in year 1 wouldn't you have then paid the CGT following your next tax return ? ...

Sorry, I explained it badly. You are already non-resident and registered as such in 'year 1.' Therefore the total minimum time offshore is five full tax years.

The gain occurs whilst non-resident, therefore no UK tax is payable. Unless you foolishly return 'early'.

After a year or two the Revenue accept that you really have left the UK, and send a letter to your offshore address stating that no further UK tax returns are required.

At that point one jumps up and down with glee, makes simian whooping noises, and opens Champagne.

[Melpomene]

... but if you'd sold the asset in year 1 wouldn't you have then paid the CGT following your next tax return ? ...

Sorry, I explained it badly. You are already non-resident and registered as such in 'year 1.' Therefore the total minimum time offshore is five full tax years.

The gain occurs whilst non-resident, therefore no UK tax is payable. Unless you foolishly return 'early'.

After a year or two the Revenue accept that you really have left the UK, and send a letter to your offshore address stating that no further UK tax returns are required.

At that point one jumps up and down with glee, makes simian whooping noises, and opens Champagne.

Aah that explains it - cheers for clarifying...

[DonW]

k.

And finally ... Based upon a lot of what you say, I'd never hire anyone like you. No offense ... you're probably a very nice guy, but probably not a good employee.

No worries but out of interest, why would I make a poor employee?

[DonW]

These types of threads are vulgar and cringeworthy and there seems to be a few of them recently.

A bunch of strangers on a internet forum discussing the finances of somebody they don't even know.

YUK!

The vast majority of posters here are existing on 30-40k a month, living in a shoebox, eating noodles and riding baht buses, then you get these types of threads. It doesn't sit well and the OP should be a bit more sensitive about people here who barely survive here reading this nonsense and making themselves feel even worse. And for the record, no I am not one of these people thankfully.

Mods need to start locking these types of threads.

Would discussing money with real life friends be more 'yuk'?

And why would compete strangers feel bad about themselves because someone has more money. You seem like a very sensitive soul, perhaps you need to not envisage how others think by using yourself as the yardstick......just saying.

[DonW]

Hi Don

Firstly, I don’t understand why people think you’re a troll – your story sounds convincing to me.

I’m a bit older than you are, spent five years in Thailand, became hugely disenchanted and did what people on here always say: ‘If you don’t like Thailand why don’t you leave?’ Well, I did exactly that. I have one house in Phuket still to sell, everything else has gone. I expect to come out even: five years free holiday, and back where I started financially. Exchange rate fluctuations helped.

But my policy was only to come here once I had a secure offshore income - making much money in Thailand itself is difficult, especially if you’re an honest chap. You say you earn a reasonable income in UK, so rates in Thailand might come as a shock. I was able to run my UK business by remote control – the internet is a wonderful thing – so earn in GBP/USD (at Western rates), but spend in THB. This worked very well. Could you do that?

Your situation appears less secure – could you work when you are inn Thailand? There’s no way you can live out your life on USD 0.5M. The plain fact is it’s not enough. That does not even buy a decent house these days, or certainly not one which will be of the quality to last a lifetime.

If you have a house to sell in the UK, in addition to your offshore investments, maybe that might work, but I’d counsel most strongly against doing that unless you immediately buy further property in a secure and low-tax jurisdiction which you can then rent out, and perhaps live on the income. (Malaysia is good.)

In fact, why Thailand? Why not consider Malaysia (Look up MM2H visa) or Singapore? You can get intelligent conversations and a good job there. You can buy properties freehold (it's effectively still British law ) in your own name. Then have a little holiday place in Thailand for beach weekends? Jump over on Air Asia, it's a doddle. Best of both worlds.

For ‘retirement’ at your age you need to own a property/properties. But absolutely not in Thailand – the legal and cultural framework is unacceptable for so many reasons. (A house to live in, sure, but not an investment portfolio).

Just having USD0.5M offshore is no good: it will gradually get reduced as temptations take their toll, then one day you’ll wake up with a lot less cash and no recovery strategy.

In one line: Don’t do it!

Good luck, Mark

Hi Mark, and thanks for that, I dont know why they are saying that either. Hey well, takes all sorts.

I couldnt run my polygraph business remotely (and to be honest I regret selling the other business previously). I have 1mill USD in savings and a house in Thailand on the Eatern Seaboard. However, I get your point regards securing offshore earnings also.

The reason I want to come to Thailand is I spent 6 years there and loved it, my Thai is also OK at intermediate and will get back to where it was previously (and hopefully improve) and I get on very well with the relatives having been married since I was 21 to a Thai.

I get your point re: Singapore and could likley secure a job there. However, Thailand is where its at.

Ive done some research and the polygraph business make not work well in Thailand. At the moment I have been offered a guarantee of 5 sessions a month at 8K THB a session which isn't enough to live how I want to live without touching the capital. At today's rates I would need 100k THB to live in Thailand and maintain the standard of living I want including trips to the UK etc.

I'll keep beavering away and thank you for the sensible post. Its appreciated.

Don

[DonW]

just go for it man..... u will do well i am sure

i am from the uk, 41, recently married, and dont have a miilion bucks

we have bought a nice house in a nice area for about £44,000 GBP, and after that can live reasonably cheaply if we want to / wife allows us to..... we live in hua hin and this area is booming it seems..... lots of opportunities for a smart lad like yourself to make some money.... go for it man.... chok dee

Thanks mate, appreciated. Seems the thread has shed the <deleted> and the sound posters are present now!

[Spoonman]

I have 1mill USD in savings and a house in Thailand on the Eatern Seaboard.

You wealth seems to have increased dramatically since your OP stating you had "a million USD in property, savings and investments".

I don't know whether to say congrats or call bullshit.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Spoonman