(Pure) Gasoline Not To Be Sold In Thailand After January 2013

[anon210]

Apparently those of us who tried to avoid gasohol will not have the choice anymore after January 2013. I guess second-hand cars will then definitely be the thing to avoid thereafter (ethanol increases the internal corrosion of motors).

Edited October 5, 2012 by Tywais
Link to Bangkok Post removed

[stingray]

No panic! It will not happen. Things allways change in Thailand. Maybe anothger new goverment and all the rules gonna be changed again.

There are to many old cars on the road. Do peaple have to trow them away? Who will be responsable for the damages, not only in the engine, but fuel pumps, rubber hoses, seals, etc. they are not made for gasohol.

There was a time, 15 years ago, where they declarde a new law at tht time. no tinted window films over 40%. And what happen with that law? Its desapeard, with so many other laws as well. No panic!, They allways made decisions first without thinking and finally they have to change it again. In my homecountry Switzerland, noone uses Gasohol. We have not even 91 Benzene. We have 95 and 98 Octane.

[anon210]

I am not overly concerned as I have a diesel motor... But indeed, I feel all those old engines will have some trouble to face the change to exclusively gasohol.

What you seem to forget is that most of the people are unaware of the damaging effects of gasohol on their engines (or any of the side-effects of using ethanol to fuel a motor).

[Semper]

In my homecountry Switzerland, noone uses Gasohol. We have not even 91 Benzene. We have 95 and 98 Octane.

Why don't they have it here? Are there some people who makes money on the gasohol?

[keemapoot]

One of the reasons I gave up on owning collector cars here. It started when 95 disappeared, now this. But, I believe Stingray's comments are probably correct.

[Payboy]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

[anon210]

In my homecountry Switzerland, noone uses Gasohol. We have not even 91 Benzene. We have 95 and 98 Octane.

Why don't they have it here? Are there some people who makes money on the gasohol?

Of course! The agricultural lobby, where soybeans or other intensive cultivation crops can be transformed into ethanol, thus bringing in more money than selling food crops. On top of that, the country's exterior trade balance profits from having less petrol imported from abroad. One should never forget that Thailand's policy has long being to strive towards auto-sufficiency - a very absurd goal in an interconnected globalized world for a country relying mainly on its exports.

[sotsira]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

[Payboy]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

Thanks for that. Now I must have a word with the garage guy who said gasohol 95 was actually better.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Payboy

[keemapoot]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

Thanks for that. Now I must have a word with the garage guy who said gasohol 95 was actually better.

It's worse than that. It erodes and damages hoses and other engine parts on older cars not equipped to handle gasohol.

[anon210]

Indeed:

http://cjandrews.hubpages.com/hub/Pros-and-Cons-of-Ethanol-in-Gas

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/state/new-e-15-ethanol-gasoline-blend-coming-soon-could-pose-big-problems

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/2011/03/09/what-you-arent-being-told-about-ethanol-and-corrosion/

[Tywais]

Link to Bangkok Post has been removed in the OP.

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[Semper]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

Correct, but some engines are also designed to run on 95 octane or above, so I would go for 95 if the manufacturer says so.

[muratremix]

What about motorbike drivers? They drive on 91 benzine?

[LucidLucifer]

I have a new car, delivered in the last 3 months. According to the manufacturors handbook, and the advice I was given at the dealership, it can run on a multitude of fuels.

I use gasahol 91, that is what was recommended by the dealership.

My question is, are new multifuel cars built to withstand the long term detrimental affects gasahol will apparently have my engine?

[muratremix]

I have a new car, delivered in the last 3 months. According to the manufacturors handbook, and the advice I was given at the dealership, it can run on a multitude of fuels.

I use gasahol 91, that is what was recommended by the dealership.

My question is, are new multifuel cars built to withstand the long term detrimental affects gasahol will apparently have my engine?

Your new car is most likely have an E20 engine. You have nothing to worry about gasohol or E20 fuels. E20 compatible engines are more resistant to ethanol.

[sotsira]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

Correct, but some engines are also designed to run on 95 octane or above, so I would go for 95 if the manufacturer says so.

95 OCTANE with what fuel, benzine or gasohol?

Also when checking with the manufacturer, don't rely on the word of some unqualified receptionist or mechanic

in the local dealership, always get the information from the technical dept of the manufacturer or look online,

or the owners handbook for the info.

[Semper]

Isn't Gasohol 95 better for the engine compared to Benzene 91?

No cos many engines are designed to run efficiently with benzine, not gasohol.

Correct, but some engines are also designed to run on 95 octane or above, so I would go for 95 if the manufacturer says so.

95 OCTANE with what fuel, benzine or gasohol?

Also when checking with the manufacturer, don't rely on the word of some unqualified receptionist or mechanic

in the local dealership, always get the information from the technical dept of the manufacturer or look online,

or the owners handbook for the info.

As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) octane rating is octane rating, whatever fuel you use.

[sotsira]

Semper,

What i meant was which fuel?

as in, when some engines were designed there was no gasohol around,

so the engines were designed to run on benzine (gasoline) only,

at 91, or 95.

The problem here is each country has different types of fuels available to the public

so each car owner has to decide what fuel fits best for the vehicle they own.

[LeCharivari]

There are to many old cars on the road. Do peaple have to trow them away? Who will be responsable for the damages, not only in the engine, but fuel pumps, rubber hoses, seals, etc. they are not made for gasohol

Not only "old cars" - this ignores all the generators, chain saws, lawn mowers, strimmers, water pumps, etc, which are either 2-stroke and so cannot be used with gasohol or which are 4-stroke but not made to take gasohol (very few are).

[jcw]

It is part of the Conspiracy, all older petrol cars engines will be stuffed in 2 years time, requiring people to go into debt to buy a new car.

[muratremix]

There are to many old cars on the road. Do peaple have to trow them away? Who will be responsable for the damages, not only in the engine, but fuel pumps, rubber hoses, seals, etc. they are not made for gasohol

Not only "old cars" - this ignores all the generators, chain saws, lawn mowers, strimmers, water pumps, etc, which are either 2-stroke and so cannot be used with gasohol or which are 4-stroke but not made to take gasohol (very few are).

My newly bought gasoline generator will become trash if they stop selling it.

[hakku]

i think everybody is going a bit overboard on this, unless we're all driving lamborghinis at the limit of their performance all the time and my guess is that we're not. Gasohol standard is E10, meaning 10% ethanol in the mix. from engineering perspective, you'd need to feed a bit more fuel to the engine (3%) to make sure the car wont run to lean. Most electronic ecu will handle that margin easily. I'm not mentioning carburettors for cars since that's antique. In case of stationary engines, they are per definition not performance engines and designed to run on crap, no trouble there.

Then the so called erosion; alcohol/ethanol has a cleaning and degreasing effect, so has regular fuel, no issue with that. The only problem might be that if you switch you'll loosen lots of dirt and crap in the fuel system due to the cleaning effects and that might initially cause some issues, but nothing that a good fuel filter and replacement cant handle.

that leaves the rubber hoses and some of the seals/gaskets in older vehicles (mainly before 1997 so thats 15 years old) being sensitive or not able to withstand the ethanol. you either replace these with modern materials or you just see what happens.

I honestly dont think its as big a deal as people make out of it.

Collectors cars and high performance cars; for collectors cars or classics, you can just order special fuels, 100 octane avgas with lead or 98 octane or 102 octane race fuels, yes i know more expensive but if you collect multi million baht classics, 80 baht a liter shouldn't be a problem.

For the rest, just don't bother.

Hak

[WarpSpeed]

It is, for dual fuel cars which ironically effects more older cars. Less lubrication to the top end of the engine and Gasohol sitting idle for long periods of time in the system will cause a multitude of problems as will the tuning capacity come tune up time.. Harder to get a balance between gasohol and Lp that doesn't do the engine harm through detonation while running gasohol. It's already hard enough to do with benzine and takes a very skilled tuner which is quite a commodity here.

Edited October 6, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[guzzi850m2]

i think everybody is going a bit overboard on this, unless we're all driving lamborghinis at the limit of their performance all the time and my guess is that we're not. Gasohol standard is E10, meaning 10% ethanol in the mix. from engineering perspective, you'd need to feed a bit more fuel to the engine (3%) to make sure the car wont run to lean. Most electronic ecu will handle that margin easily. I'm not mentioning carburettors for cars since that's antique. In case of stationary engines, they are per definition not performance engines and designed to run on crap, no trouble there.

Then the so called erosion; alcohol/ethanol has a cleaning and degreasing effect, so has regular fuel, no issue with that. The only problem might be that if you switch you'll loosen lots of dirt and crap in the fuel system due to the cleaning effects and that might initially cause some issues, but nothing that a good fuel filter and replacement cant handle.

that leaves the rubber hoses and some of the seals/gaskets in older vehicles (mainly before 1997 so thats 15 years old) being sensitive or not able to withstand the ethanol. you either replace these with modern materials or you just see what happens.

I honestly dont think its as big a deal as people make out of it.

Collectors cars and high performance cars; for collectors cars or classics, you can just order special fuels, 100 octane avgas with lead or 98 octane or 102 octane race fuels, yes i know more expensive but if you collect multi million baht classics, 80 baht a liter shouldn't be a problem.

For the rest, just don't bother.

Hak

OK so for most of us no problem but what about the quite large number of super cars that I see in Pattaya during the weekend, 99% coming from BKK, I don't think they have enough fuel onboard to go BKK-Patt-BKK and parading their cars on Beach Road as well.

Amazing Thailand.

[canuckamuck]

There are to many old cars on the road. Do peaple have to trow them away? Who will be responsable for the damages, not only in the engine, but fuel pumps, rubber hoses, seals, etc. they are not made for gasohol

Not only "old cars" - this ignores all the generators, chain saws, lawn mowers, strimmers, water pumps, etc, which are either 2-stroke and so cannot be used with gasohol or which are 4-stroke but not made to take gasohol (very few are).

This is correct, Most of the rural population depends upon a large variety of small engines which are not gasohol compatible and the percentage of motorbikes in the villages that can run gasohol is very small. If implemented it would essentially cripple agriculture and cause a huge amount of inconvenience for villagers.

Do they think the rural poor will upgrade all their machinery in the next 3 months?

Edited October 6, 2012 by canuckamuck

[Tywais]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

[Payboy]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

[Tywais]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

I was alluding to the government making it the only diesel available same as with the gasohol. I understand diesels can run on vegetable oil. Something to consider, recycle all that oil from restaurants and vendors.

[Tywais]

Thailand still far from reaching renewable energy target

BANGKOK: Several quarters have admitted that Thailand now remains far from reaching its national target of promoting renewable energy, especially gasohol.

Thai News Agency reported the acknowledgement was echoed at a seminar on renewable energy organised by the National Economic and Social Advisory Council here on Tuesday.

People in the country expressed concerns over Thailand's ability to reach the national renewable energy target of using some nine million litres of ethanol and nearly six million litres of biodiesel a day by 2021, as the country currently produces and uses only 1-3 million litres of gasohol a day.

Amnuay Thongsathit, chief inspector-general of the Thai Ministry of Energy, told the seminar that his ministry is seeking cooperation from other petrol retailers, apart from state-supported PTT Public Company Limited (PTT) and Bangchak Petroleum Public Company Limited (Bangchak), to sell gasohol E20 and is encouraging local motorcyclists to use more gasohol.

Amnuay said that his ministry also plans to end domestic supply of 91 octane petrol by January 2013 despite its high demand, as about 500,000 cars, 500,000 motorcycles and a number of farm vehicles cannot use gasohol and his ministry, therefore, plans to compensate the motorists.

Star Motoring

//note -Wonder how they are going to 'compensate' the motorists? Pay for all the modifications, replace engines, etc? The total number of vehicles doesn't feel quite right either.