(Pure) Gasoline Not To Be Sold In Thailand After January 2013

[WarpSpeed]

...now I can see,how this one of the most informative TV forums goes to "she_ep"(!)...come on MRO,stop hiding...

He is among us... But you must count his fingers to recognize him... You will know him when you read a real well-informed post. And imho, it is a very good thing for TV's motor forum.

Back on topic: in tropical countries, it seems commonly admitted that it is a nonsensical idea to put ethanol in Gasoline. Partly because of nocive effects on motors... Partly because it detracts important farming land from food crops which are essential to feed the population (be it cassava, which was promoted as a cheap source of food for impoverished local communities).

Would anyone care to elaborate instead of speaking in tongues? Is there an opposing well informed opinion that is contrary to what's been posted and confirmed fact so far? If so, post it?

Curious that, if one is well enough informed to recognize a well informed post (?). Why then is one not well enough informed to make the post themselves?

Edited October 8, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[anon210]

...now I can see,how this one of the most informative TV forums goes to "she_ep"(!)...come on MRO,stop hiding...

He is among us... But you must count his fingers to recognize him... You will know him when you read a real well-informed post. And imho, it is a very good thing for TV's motor forum.

Back on topic: in tropical countries, it seems commonly admitted that it is a nonsensical idea to put ethanol in Gasoline. Partly because of nocive effects on motors... Partly because it detracts important farming land from food crops which are essential to feed the population (be it cassava, which was promoted as a cheap source of food for impoverished local communities).

Would anyone care to elaborate instead of speaking in tongues? Is there an opposing well informed opinion that is contrary to what's been posted and confirmed fact so far? If so, post it?

Curious that, if one is well enough informed to recognize a well informed post (?). Why then is one not well enough informed to make the post themselves?

Warp, no worries, we were talking about other things. For me at least, your point is very well made and valid.

No opposing opinion, we were just talking about the alleged reincarnation of a well-known contributor to this forum.

[WarpSpeed]

Ok I'm well aware of MRO and his unfortunate forced retirement, if in deed he is here, then the forum will be back to it's glory days minus one who'll not be joining anytime soon it seems and good to know and welcomed back, just the wording was seemingly a bit antagonistic and demeaning in it's tone and I'm not so much speaking of your post..

In response to your second paragraph they don't seem to want the local farmers to move beyond the water buffalo in technology anyways..The mantra is to not do more then they can (tink to mut) and to stay local and forget the international market and grow only enough for themselves, their families and the local market. I hear this decree on the radio at least once a day put out by the one who must be obeyed..

Edited October 8, 2012 by WarpSpeed

[arthurwait]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Isn't biodiesel here already?

I was alluding to the government making it the only diesel available same as with the gasohol. I understand diesels can run on vegetable oil. Something to consider, recycle all that oil from restaurants and vendors.

Been there done that. The Thai government mandated all diesel to be B2 biodiesel several years ago and planned to go to B5. This was about as controversial as Gasohol for users of old diesels (Fishermen, farmers and heavy machinery contractors etc).

B2 did replace normal diesel for a short time in 2009 or 2010 and a few old engines with rotary fuel pumps suffered fuel leaks as a result. Some time in 2011 it was quietly dropped, apparently because of short supply or cost of palm oil.

For Diesel there was a lot of debate about issues for old engines above B2, similar to the debate for Gasohol above E10. Unfortunately in Thailand information about changing fuel standards or the pros and cons of the different fuel is often poor.

The trees in the country got struck by a diesease which stopped the supply apparently.

[arthurwait]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Not to hijack the thread as it's kind of related but I saw a pick up truck yesterday with large writing on it talking about an available Diesel compatible Lpg system here now.. It turned the other way before I could get the info from the truck though as I saw it at the last minute..

Do you mean diesel engines with LPG injection ? Supposedly meant to vastly increase power and increase mileage ?

Don't know much about it just remember when it made magazines in the UK a few years back now.

[WarpSpeed]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Not to hijack the thread as it's kind of related but I saw a pick up truck yesterday with large writing on it talking about an available Diesel compatible Lpg system here now.. It turned the other way before I could get the info from the truck though as I saw it at the last minute..

Do you mean diesel engines with LPG injection ? Supposedly meant to vastly increase power and increase mileage ?

Don't know much about it just remember when it made magazines in the UK a few years back now.

Yes exactly, it caught me off guard though so I was unable to catch the full ad and company name before the pick up with a big ad on it's side turned in the other direction but maybe some searches may turn something up. It definitely said Lp injection technology for diesel trucks now available here in Thailand..

[IMHO]

Yes exactly, it caught me off guard though so I was unable to catch the full ad and company name before the pick up with a big ad on it's side turned in the other direction but maybe some searches may turn something up. It definitely said Lp injection technology for diesel trucks now available here in Thailand..

Back in 2010 Chev Thailand sold a factory-backed diesel+LPG version of the Colorado for a few months, before it was quietly removed from the market again... The LPG system they used was very clearly 3rd party, and there never was any official explanation as to why they pulled the models from the market, so one can only wonder....

[Khonwan]

...now I can see,how this one of the most informative TV forums goes to "she_ep"(!)...come on MRO,stop hiding...

He is among us... But you must count his fingers to recognize him... You will know him when you read a real well-informed post. And imho, it is a very good thing for TV's motor forum.

Back on topic: in tropical countries, it seems commonly admitted that it is a nonsensical idea to put ethanol in Gasoline. Partly because of nocive effects on motors... Partly because it detracts important farming land from food crops which are essential to feed the population (be it cassava, which was promoted as a cheap source of food for impoverished local communities).

Wrong again. Cassava has never been promoted as a cheap source of food in Thailand! 99.99% of the cassava grown in Thailand are bitter varieties that are never directly consumed by people; the other 0.01% are sweet varieties that are not processed for ethanol or anything else but are consumed directly by people (including me). Cassava grown in Africa is indeed almost entirely consumed directly by people and not used for ethanol production.

Try to research before propagating myths.

Khonwan

Cassava Farmer (for 16 years)

Edited October 9, 2012 by Khonwan

[IMHO]

He is among us... But you must count his fingers to recognize him... You will know him when you read a real well-informed post. And imho, it is a very good thing for TV's motor forum.

If he'd stop posting one sentence replies we'd probably be able to spot his posts easier

[SoCalChris]

Yes exactly, it caught me off guard though so I was unable to catch the full ad and company name before the pick up with a big ad on it's side turned in the other direction but maybe some searches may turn something up. It definitely said Lp injection technology for diesel trucks now available here in Thailand..

Back in 2010 Chev Thailand sold a factory-backed diesel+LPG version of the Colorado for a few months, before it was quietly removed from the market again... The LPG system they used was very clearly 3rd party, and there never was any official explanation as to why they pulled the models from the market, so one can only wonder....

Back in the US I considered using propane injection as an add-on performance enhancement for my diesel vehicles. This is sometimes used when you don't want to go through the hassle of extrude honing the diesel fuel injectors for increased diesel fueling. However, the emissions (both NOx and HC) goes to crap when used in the manner.

In Chevy's case, they were probably using it as an alternative fuel source, not as a performance enhancement. Propane and butane that's found in LPG have higher heat of combustion over diesel by about 10%. This would most likely cause the NOx emission to increase to an un-acceptable level to be offered as a factory option. NOx emissions is one of the biggest challenges when designing an emission-friendly diesel engine, and manufactorers sometimes use special NOx catalytic converters and/or urea injection to get around it.

Edited October 9, 2012 by SoCalChris

[arthurwait]

Guess diesohol is next, then they can really screw things up.

Not to hijack the thread as it's kind of related but I saw a pick up truck yesterday with large writing on it talking about an available Diesel compatible Lpg system here now.. It turned the other way before I could get the info from the truck though as I saw it at the last minute..

Do you mean diesel engines with LPG injection ? Supposedly meant to vastly increase power and increase mileage ?

Don't know much about it just remember when it made magazines in the UK a few years back now.

Yes exactly, it caught me off guard though so I was unable to catch the full ad and company name before the pick up with a big ad on it's side turned in the other direction but maybe some searches may turn something up. It definitely said Lp injection technology for diesel trucks now available here in Thailand..

I can just about remember some of the articles.

If I remember right the amount of LPG used increases with engine speed something like 5% at tick over upto 30 % (????) at full engine speed. The mixture burned quicker than diesel alone letting the engines rev higher than normal.

One article tested it on an old diesel I can't remember if it was a turbo diesel or not but they were claiming power increases of (I may not be remembering correctly) but maybe 60 or 80%. I really can't believe I'm remembering that right. They weren't boy racer magazines so they weren't pronbe to making stupid power claims.

The mileage increased and obviously due to LPG being cheaper than diesel running costs were lower.

As it was an old diesel it probably was running low power anyway compared to a more modern one.

It needed a ECU to run both systems and if it went wrong or it wasn't programed by someone who really knew what they were doing the engine would go bang in an expensive way.

All of this is a hazy memory so this maybe wrong.

[tangcoral]

I am assuming pure gasoline is benzene 95? Just moved to Chiangmai and I dont see benezene 95 sold here. Did they get rid of it here in CM?

[funcat]

I am assuming pure gasoline is benzene 95? Just moved to Chiangmai and I dont see benezene 95 sold here. Did they get rid of it here in CM?

...long time ago...

[Pattaya46]

Do they think the rural poor will upgrade all their machinery in the next 3 months?

Are you serious. This project has been announce about 10 years ago already.

The removal of Regular 95 was planned 2001 to 2006

The removal of Regular 91 was planned 2005 to 2011 (it took 1 year late)

See by example : http://www.bkkriders.com/gasohol.html

[canuckamuck]

Yes I am serious, and I can tell you that here in the village most know nothing of the plan to eliminate gasoline. There has not been enough information getting out to rural areas.

I told my wife they were getting rid of benzine, and she was genuinely shocked.

Having a 20 year old machine up here is very normal.

[llp]

Pulled up today to one of my regular gas stations here in Chiang Mai, the 91 Benzine has disappeared completely when it was just available a week ago. Went to a Shell station and they still have the benzine, chatted with the staff and they are very familiar with only gasohol no benzine in 2013.

[LeCharivari]

Do they think the rural poor will upgrade all their machinery in the next 3 months?

Are you serious. This project has been announce about 10 years ago already.

The removal of Regular 95 was planned 2001 to 2006

The removal of Regular 91 was planned 2005 to 2011 (it took 1 year late)

See by example : http://www.bkkriders.com/gasohol.html

What is planned/announced is never necessarily what happens, either in Thailand or elsewhere. 95 Octane (non-gasohol) is still available from a number of suppliers in some areas, but not in others, as is 91 Octane (non-gasohol).

The problem is not just 2-stroke motorbikes, but is all 2-stroke engines: grass strimmers, generators, pumps, chainsaws, etc. Take all those away or only allow them to use fuel that damages the engine far more quickly and those using them have a major problem.

It is not a question of the "rural poor" being uninformed, but of what is available - in my local hardware store, for example, of the ten petrol-engined grass strimmers currently available only one was a 4-stroke. Apart from its effect on carburettor seals, floats, etc, gasohol should not be used in 2-stroke engines as the ethanol prevents conventional 2 stroke oil from forming a bond with metal by actually getting between the metal and the oil; this effect can be reduced considerably by using pure synthetic 2-stroke oil, but synthetic oils are not only a lot more expensive but not widely available.

[Neilly]

Just to add my two cents worth...I had a 2006 WR450F Yamaha and put 95 gasohol in it...once...it melted the fuel strainer and completely gummed up the carb. Perished the fuel line and just about anything else it came in contact with...nasty stuff

[Heng]

I'm sure someone will still 'grey' import it in.

[mortenaa]

And today 26th August 2013. My car relies on Benzine 95, and never had a problem finding it. Most PPT's and Esso's carry it, especially in rural areas.