Living Off Your Investments ...

[Cassandra]

"all Americans seem to think their middle class"

Most of them ARE middle-class, and that's what makes that country economically viable. The bottom 10% can't afford the luxuries that you expect, and the top 10% only buy relatively few (but, generally expensive things. Economically, the middle-class in the US make between $25K-$100K, and they buy most of the stuff. It's a wide financial disparity, but that doesn't preclude the term "middle-class".

Too, isn't the phrase "living off your investments" the same as "retired"? At least in the US, retirees generally have a better standard of living than those who are still working.

You can also try the calculator @ www.financialengines.com, developed by a Nobel Prize winning economist. It's very cool.

You simply repeat my point that most Americans (80% by your calculation) consider themselves middle class.But to outsiders it seems very strange.Taking the bottom of your middle class spectrum ($25,000) this might indicate middle class in say India but would definitely not in prosperous parts of Europe.Any observer of the US is often surprised to see clearly blue collar or working class types describe themselves as middle class.My guess is that this anomoly may have historical roots dating back to slavery.Subconsciously many Americans may feel there is a black underclass which would always mean under achieving whites are not , in their own estimation at least, at the bottom of the pile.The dreadful scenes in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina suggest they may have a point.

[Carmine6]

...Any observer of the US is often surprised to see clearly blue collar or working class types describe themselves as middle class...

I think we're talking different definitions here because I don't see why blue collar or working class can't be middle class. What are the other options? Lower class? Uppper class? Rich? Poor? These latter 2 are the most common.

Dealing with the income side doesn't cover the whole story since taxes are supposedly much lower in the US than in Europe, especially for low incomes. Consumer goods aren't as expensive either - Wal-Mart, nor is food. Plus a side effect of all the consumerism is that people trade up all the time and used furniture, electronics, cars, etc. are all easy to find for great prices. So you can be "middle class" on lower incomes.

[Cassandra]

...Any observer of the US is often surprised to see clearly blue collar or working class types describe themselves as middle class...

I think we're talking different definitions here because I don't see why blue collar or working class can't be middle class. What are the other options? Lower class? Uppper class? Rich? Poor? These latter 2 are the most common.

Dealing with the income side doesn't cover the whole story since taxes are supposedly much lower in the US than in Europe, especially for low incomes. Consumer goods aren't as expensive either - Wal-Mart, nor is food. Plus a side effect of all the consumerism is that people trade up all the time and used furniture, electronics, cars, etc. are all easy to find for great prices. So you can be "middle class" on lower incomes.

Mm, interesting though bizarre point.I suppose what I am saying reflects my view that the American system seeks to convince large numbers of people, who by any rational definition are not very well off, that they are "middle class" and thus should accept the status quo.Meanwhile the fat cats prosper.This leads to a situation where a men like George Bush and Dick Cheney can get elected to very high office, whereas such people would be unelectable anywhere else in the civilised world.The joke is that the relatively poor people who vote for leaders so unsympathetic to their genuine interests can ignore reality by wrapping themselves in the American flag and thinking of themselves as "middle class".

[BKKGuitar]

Well, i've been "living off my investments" for 11 months now. i resigned from a job i hated (in USA) and started traveling (PI and Thailand). i didn't have anywhere near the money piled as recommended in the replies you've gotten so far, but i just decided i want to enjoy my life more.

without going into exact figures, i started with a lot less than $200,000, all in Charles Schwab accounts, 1 non-retirement and 1 retirement. my money is divided pretty much in half: half in the non-ret, half in the ret.

I haven't been paying close attention to the accounts, i just transfer an amount from the Schwab non-ret to my checking account every 3 months. i've been living on around $1,000/month for the last 11 months. but i'm single and i know cost will go up when i get married and have family. now here's the crazy part: the non-ret acct has come down a little, and the ret acct has gone up a little, and i have a little MORE now in total than when i started, believe it or not. i have free internet in my serviced apt in bangkok, and do balance inquiries and transfers online.

now i have to file taxes, so i guess i'll be paying taxes on capital gains, on the money that i tapped from the Schwab account. i'll probably file to get an extension of time, and deal with that when i have to.

but this is just to say that yes, i think it's possible. it's been possible for me, at least. but i'm 47, i know i can go back to work if i need/want to. i'm thinking of buying a house or condo now back in the Philippines. for now, i feel like i'd be content/happy never returning to the US.

[LoveDaBlues]

...Any observer of the US is often surprised to see clearly blue collar or working class types describe themselves as middle class...

I think we're talking different definitions here because I don't see why blue collar or working class can't be middle class. What are the other options? Lower class? Uppper class? Rich? Poor? These latter 2 are the most common.

Dealing with the income side doesn't cover the whole story since taxes are supposedly much lower in the US than in Europe, especially for low incomes. Consumer goods aren't as expensive either - Wal-Mart, nor is food. Plus a side effect of all the consumerism is that people trade up all the time and used furniture, electronics, cars, etc. are all easy to find for great prices. So you can be "middle class" on lower incomes.

I'm from the United States and should have stated so in my previous post; my mistake, sorry.

Yes my 'definition' of middle class is from a U.S. view. Logically I figured starting in the middle of the bell curve (middle class) and letting the OP adjust toward the tails would be of the most help to him.

I have no idea what the generally accepted 'class definitions' are in the different regions of the world; my knowledge on that is limited.

When I retired at 48 statistics by 'The Hartford' corporation showed my net worth to be in the top 1% for persons in the U.S. in my age group. Perhaps in some regions of the world this would put me in the 'poor' class......I really don't know or care. My only concern when I retired was that I could live a 'middle class' (again by U.S. standards) life style in the United States the rest of my life without working again. Then I decided to try Thailand and of course have more than enough income to live here.

It's not true that Americans think everyone is 'middle class' or wealthy. There are many poor (unemployed) and many 'working poor' in the United States. Most studies show roughly 40 million Americans without health insurance.

A good thing about America is its broad educational and business opportunities. It's possible for a person to be working in a 7-11 and through hard work and persistence rise to greater and greater heights (monetarily speaking) and even retire at a relatively young age. I know it's possible because I did it.

Steve <---- BTW this is new and cool smilie; thanks to whoever did it!

[LoveDaBlues]

...Any observer of the US is often surprised to see clearly blue collar or working class types describe themselves as middle class...

I think we're talking different definitions here because I don't see why blue collar or working class can't be middle class. What are the other options? Lower class? Uppper class? Rich? Poor? These latter 2 are the most common.

Dealing with the income side doesn't cover the whole story since taxes are supposedly much lower in the US than in Europe, especially for low incomes. Consumer goods aren't as expensive either - Wal-Mart, nor is food. Plus a side effect of all the consumerism is that people trade up all the time and used furniture, electronics, cars, etc. are all easy to find for great prices. So you can be "middle class" on lower incomes.

Mm, interesting though bizarre point.I suppose what I am saying reflects my view that the American system seeks to convince large numbers of people, who by any rational definition are not very well off, that they are "middle class" and thus should accept the status quo.Meanwhile the fat cats prosper.This leads to a situation where a men like George Bush and Dick Cheney can get elected to very high office, whereas such people would be unelectable anywhere else in the civilised world.The joke is that the relatively poor people who vote for leaders so unsympathetic to their genuine interests can ignore reality by wrapping themselves in the American flag and thinking of themselves as "middle class".

Quote: Meanwhile the fat cats prosper.

hmmmmmm.......isn't this true everywhere in the world......not just America? Those with money/power tend to build even more money/power?

Quote: who by any rational definition are not very well off

I guess this is why millions of legal and illegal immigrants flood into America each year. Their dream is to be "not very well off"

[expatgaz]

I don't know why I keep replying but I do.Cassandra is absolutely spot on, 25,000 USD is anything but middle class, in the U.K the same would be 13,000 GBP, this is lower class infact poverty line stuff.Middle class is a family income of approx 45,000 GBP, 80,000USD.

This topic is changing rapidly and I think the Americans amongst us a great deal of you are suffering from the America the Great Syndrome. EPG.

[LoveDaBlues]

I don't know why I keep replying but I do.Cassandra is absolutely spot on, 25,000 USD is anything but middle class, in the U.K the same would be 13,000 GBP, this is lower class infact poverty line stuff.Middle class is a family income of approx 45,000 GBP, 80,000USD.

This topic is changing rapidly and I think the Americans amongst us a great deal of you are suffering from the America the Great Syndrome. EPG.

quote: I don't know why I keep replying but I do.

Pretty obvious....another American basher......have fun!

[expatgaz]

Lovedablues,

You forgot

[LoveDaBlues]

Lovedablues,

You forgot

So sorry, master!

[Cassandra]

I don't know why I keep replying but I do.Cassandra is absolutely spot on, 25,000 USD is anything but middle class, in the U.K the same would be 13,000 GBP, this is lower class infact poverty line stuff.Middle class is a family income of approx 45,000 GBP, 80,000USD.

This topic is changing rapidly and I think the Americans amongst us a great deal of you are suffering from the America the Great Syndrome. EPG.

quote: I don't know why I keep replying but I do.

Pretty obvious....another American basher......have fun!

I can see why you might think so but I am far from being an America basher.In fact in my last post I was on the point of concluding on the following lines.The great redeeming factor is that in the US it is possible through ability and hard work to achieve great things and move upwards, more so I think than in Europe and other "old" countries.The US is definitely the land of opportunity but it is not a land to be poor in and the capitalist baron class is a generally repulsive one.And my points hold.To have a man like Cheney as VP is a national disgrace.One can only speculate what a great American such as FDR would say to this man.I'm no socialist but do believe that a mark of a civilized society is how it treats its lowest and most helpless individuals.By this criterion America currently fails.But most Americans are decent and generous.It's high time they had a government reflecting these qualities.

[NovaBlue05]

I don't know why I keep replying but I do.Cassandra is absolutely spot on, 25,000 USD is anything but middle class, in the U.K the same would be 13,000 GBP, this is lower class infact poverty line stuff.Middle class is a family income of approx 45,000 GBP, 80,000USD.

This topic is changing rapidly and I think the Americans amongst us a great deal of you are suffering from the America the Great Syndrome. EPG.

The US is a very large and culturally diverse country and not effectively painted with a broad brush as some would seem to attempt (although I suspect doing so will significantly simplify the thought process). Different people have different expectations. The cost of living varys drastically depending on region A $25K salary is worth WAY more in the middle region or south than on the east or west coasts although granted, it really isnt enough anywhere to raise a family on as a sole income. In my city, $300K will barely buy you a tiny condo while in other regions, it will get you a 4 bedroom home with land. A family would struggle on an $80K income here but do well in other areas.

Yes, the thread has gotten off topic. Your closing comment added no real value beyond indicating an unrelated personal bias.

[LoveDaBlues]

I don't know why I keep replying but I do.Cassandra is absolutely spot on, 25,000 USD is anything but middle class, in the U.K the same would be 13,000 GBP, this is lower class infact poverty line stuff.Middle class is a family income of approx 45,000 GBP, 80,000USD.

This topic is changing rapidly and I think the Americans amongst us a great deal of you are suffering from the America the Great Syndrome. EPG.

quote: I don't know why I keep replying but I do.

Pretty obvious....another American basher......have fun!

I can see why you might think so but I am far from being an America basher.In fact in my last post I was on the point of concluding on the following lines.The great redeeming factor is that in the US it is possible through ability and hard work to achieve great things and move upwards, more so I think than in Europe and other "old" countries.The US is definitely the land of opportunity but it is not a land to be poor in and the capitalist baron class is a generally repulsive one.And my points hold.To have a man like Cheney as VP is a national disgrace.One can only speculate what a great American such as FDR would say to this man.I'm no socialist but do believe that a mark of a civilized society is how it treats its lowest and most helpless individuals.By this criterion America currently fails.But most Americans are decent and generous.It's high time they had a government reflecting these qualities.

quote: To have a man like Cheney as VP is a national disgrace.

Agreed (well..... 'disgrace' may be a little harsh but Americans deserve better). It seems of late Americans don't have much to choose from with regards to the president/vice-pres.

[KhunPadThai]

kaisaigai,

Let me just chime in with a slightly different slant. If you are going to try to live off your investments, don't give your money to an "investment professional" to manage for you. For starters, there is no such thing as an "investment professional." In the professions, such as medicine, law, or architecture, you have a reasonable expectation of performance with accredited practitioners above some threshhold of competence. For example, if you send a diabetic to ten doctors you get back ten diagnoses of diabetes and nonsense from one incompetent. By contrast, there simply is no such thing as minimal competence among investment managers. If you consult the investment returns of CFAs, Harvard MBAs, stockbrokers, equity managers, hedge fund operators, and suburban housewives they will be all over the map. There is such a thing as talent among investment managers, some of whom do indeed regularly outperform the marketplace. But you won't have access to such people and you don't know enough to spot them among the crowd of sharks eager to feed off your money. There are many, many stories of people who entrusted their hard-won assets to sharpies with a good line and lost it. For years I worked for various equity managers here in New York City with whom I would never have entrusted a dime of my own money. They were mostly honest at least, but lost piles of money all the same.

I urge you to view managing your own investments as your next occupation to which you should devote yourself with all the intensity available to youth. Few people are able to live off investments and fewer still at your age so you would have to beat the odds somehow. After you have read a lot, perhaps taken some courses at a university, and done some investing of your own, you may know enough to be able to hire a manager, or you may not need to. I can recommend many titles, but a good starter would be: "How to Retire Early and Live Well on Less than a Million Dollars", by Gillette Edmunds.

Good luck to you.

Khun Pad Thai

[NovaBlue05]

quote: To have a man like Cheney as VP is a national disgrace.

Agreed (well..... 'disgrace' may be a little harsh but Americans deserve better). It seems of late Americans don't have much to choose from with regards to the president/vice-pres.

I also agree that the Country deserves better than the candidates either party have offered in recent memory. Many people....myself included...felt they were voting for the "lesser of two evils" for the last few elections. This is a country of 300 million people and I know there is better out there because I meet better people every day. Right now, the two partys demonstrate a behavior that indicates that they could care less about the real issues and instead act like two private Boys Clubs whose sole purpose is to "one up" each other . I guess if there is any consolation, it doesnt appear that many other major western countries are having much more luck.

Now then....How much does it cost to live comfortably in Thailand ?......Never mind, I think I know

[paulnuek]

Hi all,

I was wondering how many of you actually pay the bills in Thailand by living off your investment portfolio. I am building a well-diversified portfolio, albeit a small one , and hopefully it will provide me with enough income to live in Thailand. I am a bit scared though to be totally dependent on the performance of my stocks and bonds et cetera...and a severe bearmarket will definitely disturb my sleep.

I expect an average return of around 7,5% per year and after inflation (2,5%) en taxes this will result in an real annual yield of circa 4%. My tolerance for risk is pretty low, although I know - being only 32 - I should probably invest more than 60% in stocks.

For those of you who are in a similar situation, I would like to hear more about your strategies.

By the way I will settle for a monthly income of around 25.000 baht, providing that I own an apartment/house so I won't have to pay rent. I will be looking for a place to live somewhere outside BKK. After my savings/investments have reached the value of 200.000 euro, I would be able to take the leap...can't wait...

or I might move to Thailand earlier and do some teaching work, while my current small investment portfolio will hopefully turn into the above mentioned amount over time.

I am in the same or similar boat to you.

Slightly older at 38 and after investments I should have more than you are hoping to live on.

I am thinking of renting rather that buying,however.

A condo can be had at around 7000-8000 baht per month.

That however is more than a quarter of your monthly income.

You could live on the rest of your income,but it would be tight.

Are you married to a Thai?If not you will have to endure visa runs every few months,which will eat into your income.

What about "entertaining" and going out?

You cannot stay in the condo forever!!!!

Having said all that I wish you the best of luck.

If you don`t do it now you will put it off and probably never make the leap.

I bet you will always wonder "what if I....."

[Firefan]

Kaisaigai: "I expect an average return of around 7,5% per year and after inflation (2,5%) en taxes this will result in an real annual yield of circa 4%. My tolerance for risk is pretty low, although I know - being only 32 - I should probably invest more than 60% in stocks. "

Kaisaigai; to go back to your original question I think that is a resonable expectation for the return from a low cost, well diversified (both asset class and country/currency wise) portfolio 60/40% equity/fixed income.

That is very similar to my current portfolio split - but I have added commodities, metals and reits for more diversification. Cheers!

[jing jing]

Kaisaigai: "I expect an average return of around 7,5% per year and after inflation (2,5%) en taxes this will result in an real annual yield of circa 4%. My tolerance for risk is pretty low, although I know - being only 32 - I should probably invest more than 60% in stocks. "

Kaisaigai; to go back to your original question I think that is a resonable expectation for the return from a low cost, well diversified (both asset class and country/currency wise) portfolio 60/40% equity/fixed income.

That is very similar to my current portfolio split - but I have added commodities, metals and reits for more diversification. Cheers!

I thought the OP was interested in "living off" his investments. If so, then an asset allocation of 60/40 equity/fixed income would require quite a large principal amount to generate a viable income in Bangkok or any of the resort areas.

I know, it's possible to live off 25K in the boonies if your house and car are paid for, and it's possible to rent a condo for 7000 baht in Bangkok, but...

Has the OP seen what a 7000 baht condo in Bangkok looks like?

Has the OP experienced the "rural" Thai lifestyle, i.e. spent time in a village in Issan?

I am with the folks who say that to live in Thailand with any degree of comfort (subjective, I know, but at some point we need to agree that having running water, a toilet, and A/C when the temperature is 100 degrees with 95 percent humidity are among the basic requirements to be"comfortable") you will need somewhere between 50K and 100K per month before paying your rent, depending on where in the country you live and what lifestyle you choose. 200K/month would be nice in Bangkok if you wanted to live semi-hiso.

Consider that in New York, L.A., London, Tokyo, or even Hong Kong you would probably need 3 or 4 times that much to live an equivalent (semi-hiso) lifestyle.

Let's consider 50K baht per month - a little more than a decent English teacher's salary - as a baseline amount: that's 600K per year, or about $15KUS, which is most certainly borderline poverty level in most parts of the USA.

To generate $15K you would need $300K invested at a 5% after-tax yield (which is a bit more than what you would get today in a safe fixed-income investment). So, if your income producing assets are only 40% of your portfolio, that means you need a total principal amount of $750K to produce that 50K baht per month income in Thailand.

Remember that money invested in stocks (unless they have a dividend), REITs, commodities, currencies, and the like not only do not produce any current income, but may actually incur loss of principal over any given period of time.

Enough rambling for now.

[Cassandra]

Kaisaigai: "I expect an average return of around 7,5% per year and after inflation (2,5%) en taxes this will result in an real annual yield of circa 4%. My tolerance for risk is pretty low, although I know - being only 32 - I should probably invest more than 60% in stocks. "

Kaisaigai; to go back to your original question I think that is a resonable expectation for the return from a low cost, well diversified (both asset class and country/currency wise) portfolio 60/40% equity/fixed income.

That is very similar to my current portfolio split - but I have added commodities, metals and reits for more diversification. Cheers!

I thought the OP was interested in "living off" his investments. If so, then an asset allocation of 60/40 equity/fixed income would require quite a large principal amount to generate a viable income in Bangkok or any of the resort areas.

I know, it's possible to live off 25K in the boonies if your house and car are paid for, and it's possible to rent a condo for 7000 baht in Bangkok, but...

Has the OP seen what a 7000 baht condo in Bangkok looks like?

Has the OP experienced the "rural" Thai lifestyle, i.e. spent time in a village in Issan?

I am with the folks who say that to live in Thailand with any degree of comfort (subjective, I know, but at some point we need to agree that having running water, a toilet, and A/C when the temperature is 100 degrees with 95 percent humidity are among the basic requirements to be"comfortable") you will need somewhere between 50K and 100K per month before paying your rent, depending on where in the country you live and what lifestyle you choose. 200K/month would be nice in Bangkok if you wanted to live semi-hiso.

Consider that in New York, L.A., London, Tokyo, or even Hong Kong you would probably need 3 or 4 times that much to live an equivalent (semi-hiso) lifestyle.

Let's consider 50K baht per month - a little more than a decent English teacher's salary - as a baseline amount: that's 600K per year, or about $15KUS, which is most certainly borderline poverty level in most parts of the USA.

To generate $15K you would need $300K invested at a 5% after-tax yield (which is a bit more than what you would get today in a safe fixed-income investment). So, if your income producing assets are only 40% of your portfolio, that means you need a total principal amount of $750K to produce that 50K baht per month income in Thailand.

Remember that money invested in stocks (unless they have a dividend), REITs, commodities, currencies, and the like not only do not produce any current income, but may actually incur loss of principal over any given period of time.

Enough rambling for now.

Just once in a while one sees a post on the subject of Thailand cost of living which is absolutely spot on.The above is such a post, even tempered and accurate.

[BlackJack]

"all Americans seem to think their middle class"

Most of them ARE middle-class, and that's what makes that country economically viable. The bottom 10% can't afford the luxuries that you expect, and the top 10% only buy relatively few (but, generally expensive things. Economically, the middle-class in the US make between $25K-$100K, and they buy most of the stuff. It's a wide financial disparity, but that doesn't preclude the term "middle-class".

Too, isn't the phrase "living off your investments" the same as "retired"? At least in the US, retirees generally have a better standard of living than those who are still working.

You can also try the calculator @ www.financialengines.com, developed by a Nobel Prize winning economist. It's very cool.

i must be blind where is the calculator

[Firefan]

Jing Jing I fully agree with your overall statement - and I only focused on the % return expected from a well diversified 60/40% portfolio. Historically (and that is all we have to go by) stocks have done 10-11%/year (emerging markets and small caps a bit more - but more volatile of course) and bonds(developed countries) about 5-6%.

Most of the calculators out there like www.fireseeker.com basically use "income" from both stocks(dividends as well as capital gains) AND bonds as they re-balance once a year - and that has historically survived 4-5% with drawal per year.

If one only wants income from fixed income vehicles then you are certainly right that a much bigger nest egg is needed.

Best thing one can do is go to Thailand for a "test-retirement" for some months and find out ones "satisfactory" standard of living.

Cheers!

[BlackJack]

if you see one of my earlier posts

you will see that it is possible to get an apartment and rent it out -(not Pattaya or there abouts as there is a very high vacancy rate) around Sukhumvit are etc

There is an element of risk however you can get a 9% return and if managed properly you can use the Taxsin style of creativity and reduce tax on the income

If you look around the world you will see that you can get deposit interest on your savings

in Australia its 6% at call

in NZ its over 10%

however again some risk - but manage the risk

foreigners can open these accounts and pay 10% tax on the interest earned

shares in managed funds have been paying over 20% (Australia for the past 5 years)

you can double your money in 5 mins if you want

go to casino - put it all on red

well punk

do you feel lucky

[expatgaz]

Jing Jing, your post is very good, its accurate and pretty much like I was trying to say but you said it better. I was beginning to feel outnumbered by the 20,000 baht a month brigade, string vest , shorts, house with no running water, no AC and a bowl of sticky rice a day....oh and for the monthly enjoyments.....push the boat out and drink 4 bottles of chang Thats what I call a real middle class kind of retirement

Before all the shirty replies, Iam only joking

EPG

[Firefan]

Black Jack; finding those 9% in todays BKK property market can be hard I think, the rent/purchase ratio does not look even close to 9% these days (and let's not forget vacancy periods, management fees, maintenance, non-paying clients and so forth) - but yes, it is another potential way of making the money work for you.

Splitting the money up - with some in real estate, some in high interest accounts, some in global bonds and some in global stocks/commodities seems the most prudent way to me.

Cheers!

[kaisaigai]

Thanks for all the replies guys, some of them are really helpful.

I think it is quite easy to generate an income from an investment portfolio and a return of 7 or 8% (4-5% after inflation/taxes) is realistic. What about selling call-options on stocks that offer a relatively high dividend. You can even protect a part of your portfolio with put-options.

Black Jack, it might be a good idea to buy a condo in BKK and rent it out. You will not only have a relatively stable income stream, but you will also have a natural hedge against currency fluctuations. One of my main worries is a sharp depreciation of the euro against the baht over time, considering the meagre long term economical prospects in Europe. The ageing population will have dramatic implications for several economies.

What would be the best location to buy a condo. You mentioned BKK, for example Sukhumwit or Silom ? What kind of management fee can I expect ?

[cclub75]

One of my main worries is a sharp depreciation of the euro against the baht over time, considering the meagre long term economical prospects in Europe. The ageing population will have dramatic

You are perfectly right.... but on the long term (ageing population, health care, retirements funds...)

Before, I'm not sure.

All the asians countries have a big achille's heel : energy.

On short and medium term, it's likely that we are going to suffer a major oil crisis (middle east, and even the begining of the peak oil)...

Europe can "handle" very high prices of oil... But not asia.

If this happens, all the money that had flowed into asian economics, will pull out and go back to Europe and USA. It will have a tremendous impact on the region. And 1997 will appear like an amusement park.

[johnnyk]

... One of my main worries is a sharp depreciation of the euro against the baht over time, considering the meagre long term economical prospects in Europe.

Can't agree with this.

Maybe when (if) Thailand starts to rival Euroland as a producer of extremely high-value and high-quality manufactured goods along with sophisticated financial and consulting services.

With the current education system and corruption at every turn in Thailand don't look for it to happen in our lifetime.

[BlackJack]

Black Jack; finding those 9% in todays BKK property market can be hard I think, the rent/purchase ratio does not look even close to 9% these days (and let's not forget vacancy periods, management fees, maintenance, non-paying clients and so forth) - but yes, it is another potential way of making the money work for you.

Splitting the money up - with some in real estate, some in high interest accounts, some in global bonds and some in global stocks/commodities seems the most prudent way to me.

Cheers!

hello i just signed off on one last month and so my findings are current

i actually broke my foot walking around looking at so many places - finally i worked out the right equation and bingo - i found the place and the tenant on the same day

My equation worked very well and if i had the bucks i would have bought another -

but no i had to save some for my beach retirement property

BTW the 9% is NETT with maintenance fees taken out - of course there will be vacant periods in the future - maybe - maybe not - but location is the key and finding punters wanting to stay in little clicky areas

So do your homework guys

[Firefan]

Blackjack; good for you and happy to hear that those deals are still out there! Cheers!

[Napolean_Complex]

Thanks to all for the sound advice that has been given so far.

First of all i want to say that I love this forum, its my most favorite topic. Retiring in Thailand and how much does it take. Since I seem to be in the presence of so many knowledgable individuals let me tell you my story, If I may...

Im a 26 year old male that resides in canada. A net worth of approx 330,000 (My province is BOOMING with oil and gas plants springing up everywhere) My house has increased 50K which I plan to sell after I hold onto it for the full year and I have stock options currently worth 60K that will vest in april 2008. Aprill 2008 I am SERIOUSLY thinking about at the very least semi-retiring with around 440,000CAD. Id like to teach english to all the kiddies (mostly so I wont spend money) Just curious about all your thought on this. Im pretty sure that I can live off 50K THB/Month as I have already built a house in TL (although small).

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks to all for the sound advice that has been given so far.

I am aware of the fact that it's quite ridiculous to think about retiring at such a young age. I am just longing for an escape from my current miserable life (having burn-out symptoms....like insomnia but I won't bother you with that).

The easy-going lifestyle that Thailand has to offer is quite tempting for me and despite all the scepticism I will probably take the plunge even before I have reached the 'meagre' amount of €200.000.

As I am used to living frugally, I do think that 25.000 baht will be enough. Buying a condo will provide me with a natural hedge against euro/baht-fluctuations. By the way, I hope I can top that amount with 10.000 baht per month by sub-letting my apartment in Holland. But given the risks I guess this won't be sustainable.

All in all I know that it's probably better to stay and work here at least another 8 or 10 years...but the idea alone makes me depressed

I am interested in stories of tv-members who have actually retired early in thailand and made a succes of it...