Are Older Men in Thailand Trading Love for Financial Ruin

[fame1nexpleta]

Hi all,

I'll be launching a BKK based web startup in the coming months and, although excited, I am trying to go into this with both eyes open. I've spent a great deal of time in Thailand, (lived in BKK for 7 months working on personal projects, 3 years of coming back and forth), but my professional experience here is limited. For those concerned, I will be able to afford walking away, should that be needed. I can complete most of the work myself and will not need to employ more than 2 individuals (and they may be possibly contract work).

Although the site will be targeting the Thai market, I am considering hosting and business location options. From reading the forums, it seems Hong Kong is a better option for registering a company. The opinions I have seen here kind of leave me seeing the Thai system as byzantine and overly favoring locals vs. foreign investors. Although the website can be hosted anywhere, the main source of income will be Thailand and I have concerns about transfers if I should register in Hong Kong.

Sorry if this post is rambling, I am still in the process of researching all of my options and browsing the forums. That said, any relevant experiences or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[beano2274]

just remember the big WP!!!! (Work Permit)

[fame1nexpleta]

just remember the big WP!!!! (Work Permit)

Thanks Beano.

[fame1nexpleta]

just remember the big WP!!!! (Work Permit)

Four Thais per work permit is a bit much and I don't think I would have enough work for all of them everyday. I also do not want to invest a great deal of time in managing and training people I don't necessarily need. I would much rather see the business grow organically than having to staff bodies.

I'm considering having my girlfriend setup a business in her name and run the administrative side and collect the profits. We could avoid all of the strings that come attached to foreign companies. I can easily administer the site and have it hosted in Singapore. I maintain leverage throughout, since I have the keys to the castle (site source code, databases, domain name, etc). I'll need to research further on how this will be structured legally (transferring the profits to me, taxes, etc). As it stands now, it seems wiser not to commit fully to a foreign/Thai company until I see a compelling reason to do so.

[beano2274]

If you work for the company your girlfriend will still have to employ staff, but they could be her parents or friends, this will allow you to get the required Work Permit

[Soutpeel]

If you work for the company your girlfriend will still have to employ staff, but they could be her parents or friends, this will allow you to get the required Work Permit

and pay their social security etc...the only fully legal avenue for the OP...ie WP etc...is to start up a THB 2.0 million BHT Ltd company, seeing he is not married and a representative office structure, (where in he would forgo the 4 employee requirements) appears to be a none starter as well

[fame1nexpleta]

If you work for the company your girlfriend will still have to employ staff, but they could be her parents or friends, this will allow you to get the required Work Permit

and pay their social security etc...the only fully legal avenue for the OP...ie WP etc...is to start up a THB 2.0 million BHT Ltd company, seeing he is not married and a representative office structure, (where in he would forgo the 4 employee requirements) appears to be a none starter as well

Although I have the cash, 2M Baht is more than I feel comfortable with walking away from. I'm leaning more towards launching the site and just having the girlfriend manage the content. If and when the site becomes popular, my logic would change and I may be more inclined to invest money in it. Google Adwords and paypal seem to be safer bets for revenue than local funds at the moment. Also, I'm sure 2M baht is just the tip of the iceberg - would that just need to be put in a Thai bank? I'm certain that a situation like that comes with plenty of barriers to prevent the money from ever leaving Thailand.

I'm also interested in if I can have the girlfriend and her company "lease" the site from me. She would manage content and local ad revenue and I would maintain infrastructure (all hosted in a third country). The sticky issue there looks like it will be getting the money out of Thailand.

If I could get away with 1M baht and total control of the enterprise, I would be happy, but it doesn't look like that's possible. I understand the purpose of these laws, but I can't help but feel innovation is being stifled and Thailand is missing out on (a sliver) of foreign investment here.

Thanks again for the help here.

[Soutpeel]

If you work for the company your girlfriend will still have to employ staff, but they could be her parents or friends, this will allow you to get the required Work Permit

and pay their social security etc...the only fully legal avenue for the OP...ie WP etc...is to start up a THB 2.0 million BHT Ltd company, seeing he is not married and a representative office structure, (where in he would forgo the 4 employee requirements) appears to be a none starter as well

Although I have the cash, 2M Baht is more than I feel comfortable with walking away from. I'm leaning more towards launching the site and just having the girlfriend manage the content. If and when the site becomes popular, my logic would change and I may be more inclined to invest money in it. Google Adwords and paypal seem to be safer bets for revenue than local funds at the moment. Also, I'm sure 2M baht is just the tip of the iceberg - would that just need to be put in a Thai bank? I'm certain that a situation like that comes with plenty of barriers to prevent the money from ever leaving Thailand.

I'm also interested in if I can have the girlfriend and her company "lease" the site from me. She would manage content and local ad revenue and I would maintain infrastructure (all hosted in a third country). The sticky issue there looks like it will be getting the money out of Thailand.

If I could get away with 1M baht and total control of the enterprise, I would be happy, but it doesn't look like that's possible. I understand the purpose of these laws, but I can't help but feel innovation is being stifled and Thailand is missing out on (a sliver) of foreign investment here.

Thanks again for the help here.

Its THB 2.0 million capitalised Ltd company...not THB 2.0 million in the bank or even in the company for that matter, for THB 1.0 million in cash you could get set up a THB 2.0 million capitalised company easy in Thailand

further what do you mean by total control...you know if you are a non-American, under the Amity agreement, you cant own 100% of business in Thailand, its 49% , but the share structure is set up as preferential shares so you cant be out voted..

I would strongly suggest before you get into anything here consult a legal firm who know how to set all this up properly as this will save you possible pain later on

Edited October 6, 2012 by Soutpeel

[fame1nexpleta]

If you work for the company your girlfriend will still have to employ staff, but they could be her parents or friends, this will allow you to get the required Work Permit

and pay their social security etc...the only fully legal avenue for the OP...ie WP etc...is to start up a THB 2.0 million BHT Ltd company, seeing he is not married and a representative office structure, (where in he would forgo the 4 employee requirements) appears to be a none starter as well

Although I have the cash, 2M Baht is more than I feel comfortable with walking away from. I'm leaning more towards launching the site and just having the girlfriend manage the content. If and when the site becomes popular, my logic would change and I may be more inclined to invest money in it. Google Adwords and paypal seem to be safer bets for revenue than local funds at the moment. Also, I'm sure 2M baht is just the tip of the iceberg - would that just need to be put in a Thai bank? I'm certain that a situation like that comes with plenty of barriers to prevent the money from ever leaving Thailand.

I'm also interested in if I can have the girlfriend and her company "lease" the site from me. She would manage content and local ad revenue and I would maintain infrastructure (all hosted in a third country). The sticky issue there looks like it will be getting the money out of Thailand.

If I could get away with 1M baht and total control of the enterprise, I would be happy, but it doesn't look like that's possible. I understand the purpose of these laws, but I can't help but feel innovation is being stifled and Thailand is missing out on (a sliver) of foreign investment here.

Thanks again for the help here.

Its THB 2.0 million capitalised Ltd company...not THB 2.0 million in the bank or even in the company for that matter, for THB 1.0 million in cash you could get set up a THB 2.0 million capitalised company easy in Thailand

further what do you mean by total control...you know if you are a non-American, under the Amity agreement, you cant own 100% of business in Thailand, its 49% , but the share structure is set up as preferential shares so you cant be out voted..

I would strongly suggest before you get into anything here consult a legal firm who know how to set all this up properly as this will save you possible pain later on

I am American but I'm seeing conflicting information on the Amity agreement - I get the impression it's more for large MNC's. I'll need to research this further - thank you.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'capitalized'? I interpreted that as a valuation of the company/assets - how can I set up a company for less than its capitalization?

And I agree, I will need to see a lawyer. Thanks for the help here.

[davejones]

I don't know where you're from, but you could set up a company in your home country (e.g. UK) and run the business via that company. That company could employ the two workers you need. You don't have to set up a company in the country that you're selling things to. But depends what you business is. If you;re sourcing goods in Thailand and selling them here, than that's different. But if you're selling something like software then it doesn't matter where your company is based.

[Soutpeel]

it doesn't matter where your company is based.

It does is the OP is using the company to permit a long stay/WP in Thailand and get around paying full tax somewhere...

[davejones]

it doesn't matter where your company is based.

It does is the OP is using the company to permit a long stay/WP in Thailand and get around paying full tax somewhere...

I don't think the OP needs a work permit though. Also, he won't get around paying tax if he has a company based here. Just seems much easier to start a company elsewhere if it suits his needs.

[MrHammer]

Southpeel, please stop your misinformation about the 2.0 mill capital and four employees. IT/online companies can easily be registered as a BOI company for a total cost of around 50-70K baht. I know several who have done this, no problem at all if in that business.

OP, just contact a competent lawyer, not the Thaivisa sponsor.

[Khun Jean]

competent and a lawyer. Where to find such a person?

The best thing is to become competent yourself.

Start here... http://www.boi.go.th....php?page=index

and this http://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/BOI-A%20Guide%202011-EN-REV-2_20417.pdf

categorie for ecommerce on page 47-48

Edited October 14, 2012 by Khun Jean

[Soutpeel]

Southpeel, please stop your misinformation about the 2.0 mill capital and four employees. IT/online companies can easily be registered as a BOI company for a total cost of around 50-70K baht. I know several who have done this, no problem at all if in that business.

OP, just contact a competent lawyer, not the Thaivisa sponsor.

Ok please provide details then how does one do it and the criteria applied by the BOI, as if this is so easy why do we have "on-liner's" bleating on about getting legal in Thailand being so hard, cant get a WP, the law doesnt consider them, the law is old...blah blah etc etc

I have provided no mis information, the info I supplied was for a standard limited liability company in Thailand, this is not mis-information

further you are stating a specific legal company is non-competant ?....are you a lawyer passing your learned opinion ? pretty sure the legal company concerned wouldnt agree with you as regards their competancy ..

Please share with us your knowlege as it appears you have found the answer to all the on-line business men and women working "illegally" in Thailand for the princely sum of 70k

[Soutpeel]

competent and a lawyer. Where to find such a person?

The best thing is to become competent yourself.

Start here... http://www.boi.go.th....php?page=index

and this http://www.boi.go.th...REV-2_20417.pdf

categorie for ecommerce on page 47-48

section 5.8 of the PDF talks about a THB 10 million investion under "Software" section 5.9 appears to be quite ambigious/non specifc...so if "Mr Hammer" has the details of how section 5.9 is interepreted by the BOI then he needs to share, as my understanding to get involved with the BOI, you are usually talking about quite significant amounts of money involved and is not intended for small buisness'

[DTiger]

Southpeel, please stop your misinformation about the 2.0 mill capital and four employees. IT/online companies can easily be registered as a BOI company for a total cost of around 50-70K baht. I know several who have done this, no problem at all if in that business.

That does not sound better as information...... usual "Thai" rumors, without more information!

[Khun Jean]

Indeed. BOI stands for Board of Investment. Small is not the intention.

And even if you have the intention to invest the needed amounts you still need to be approved.

[Soutpeel]

Indeed. BOI stands for Board of Investment. Small is not the intention.

And even if you have the intention to invest the needed amounts you still need to be approved.

Correct..which is why I am wating in anticpation for "MrHammer's" "easy and no problem" solution for THB 70k under BOI....

[MrHammer]

Listen guys, I know several Chiang Mai based BOI companies in SEO/webdesign/online consulting. They paid 50-70K with a Thai lawyer. The proof is in the pudding as they say as both companies employ 20+ legal foreigners. Believe it or not, what do I care, the simple fact is that there are lawyers who can get you legit if you're an IT consultant for that amount of money. But if you'd rather believe the hearsay and holier than thou wage slave drivel then so be it.

[Soutpeel]

Listen guys, I know several Chiang Mai based BOI companies in SEO/webdesign/online consulting. They paid 50-70K with a Thai lawyer. The proof is in the pudding as they say as both companies employ 20+ legal foreigners. Believe it or not, what do I care, the simple fact is that there are lawyers who can get you legit if you're an IT consultant for that amount of money. But if you'd rather believe the hearsay and holier than thou wage slave drivel then so be it.

No one is disputing it can be done, but look what you have written "both companies employ 20+ legal foreigners" etc this is a "large scale" operation and the fact they have 20+ foreigners suggest they have invested a fair chunk of change in this....read what the OP wrote...himself + maybe 2 people

its not quite the same thing...as far as I understand BOI, a lawyer maybe able to get you so far, but each project is reviewed on a case for case basis before approval is given..

[MrHammer]

One guy I know only has 5 or 6 employees most Thais. They're all in Chiang Mai though, so couldn't say if it's easier to do up there. But I'm a member of a Facebook group of entrepreneurs and business people in Thailand from my own country and they all recommend BOI and it doesn't sound difficult at all if you're in the IT biz. If you really wanted anyway how hard would it be to find someone with a BOI company and get a proforma employment, then just pay the social security and taxes. As always, it seems like good connections with real business people goes a long way instead of relying on anonymous strangers on the internet. In any case, I'm going the BOI route, but maybe start with some lawyer company until I am ready to hire a few foreigners. Stuff like this really shouldn't be a showstopper if you're determined to do business in Thailand. The rules probably work fine as is to keep the dreamers away.

[MrHammer]

Actually I did some research with friends and as usual there's no set rules. Most paid 50-70K to their lawyer and then it took 3-4 months for acceptance. Some had to show 300-500K baht in the bank, others didnt'. It's fair to say, that there right lawyer here can probably accomplish a great deal.