Military: Arms Seized By Red-Shirt Protesters Missing

[Buchholz]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

Ditto....

Buchholz:

They probably will and that's fine.

btw, they'll save it for re-referencing countless times.

.

[Buchholz]

Out of the 5 stories

The first photo is the ONE that was handed back. The second photo is of the reds still in possession of them.

The first one happened before the April 9th incident of the OP and the second reflects when Red Shirts took weapons from police, not army.

Ergo... there were multiple times when Red Shirts stole weapons from both the army AND the police.

Thanks for pointing that out, Triplet.

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Buchholz

[TheKrayTriplet]

^ if you're going to post photos, please don't imbed over-sized ones that distort the page

Sorry, Mod. I resized after posting. If they reverted to original size don't blame me.

[Sharp]

"The bullies claim to be bullied" ...... Just like Lance Armstrong ...... Just like my ex Thai wife! I think if you researched Thaksin (or Armstrong) you would find that they are both socio-paths. These people lie and cheat their way into positions of power, and it is a psychological condition that Thaksin displays in his many actions. These people are dangerous for the world because they are unable to comprehend the severity of their actions and behaviours. If you study Lance Armstrong you'll see the similarities. Those not involved in the cycling world do not know just how much power he had and how much mayhem he created. They have the ability to make people believe them but if you can see behind the facade then you'll know just how bad these peeps are.

What does lance Armstrong have to do with this thread. By the way how many drug test did he pass.

Does lance have a few of the missing M-16s

Wwwwwoooooaaahhhhhh....

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[TheKrayTriplet]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

You have no case to answer. The Army Spokesmans word will be forever tainted and not just for the remarks reported here. Anything he says is suspect and to have him answer to a committee as a witness is to invite derision. Likewise Prayuth is of a similar ilk as a "we didn't fire at the protesters" - It does not just refer to these specific dates.

And why address your comment to Buchholz? You'll only reinforce that "leader" tag.

[TheKrayTriplet]

Out of the 5 stories in this one piece may I suggest a closer look at the supposed main story: Arms seized by red shirts still missing says Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd.

• This supposed action took place two and a half years ago and nothing has been said about the missing "arms" since then - until Sansern needs a diversion from his evidence.
  
• The arms abandoned by the Red Shirts were given back to the police - see photos. Paperwork shouldn't be hard to check to see what was handed back.
  
• The Army has previous in this. A very relaxed attitude to "guarding" their war weapons. Remember the the loss of grenades and RPGs that happened back in 2010 that Gen. Anupong eventually concluded were stolen by his own soldiers and sold on the borders
  
• The complete cock up regarding the handing out and re-requisition of ammunition not used during 2010
  
• How convenient to blame the red shirts
  
• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

<snipped photo>

Anti-government protesters return weapons they snatched from security at Parliament to the police in Bangkok April 7, 2010. "Red shirt" protesters briefly occupied the grounds of Thailand's parliament on Wednesday as they stepped up pressure on the government to call an election. Hundreds of protesters, who have already forced the capital's main shopping district to close since Saturday, pushed through a thin line of riot police, but then left after about 20 minutes and massed outside the building. (REUTERS/Sukree Sukplang)

<snipped photo>

Weapons seized from Thai riot policemen by Red Shirt protesters are returned after clashes at Thaicom station in Pathum Thani on the outskirts of Bangkok on April 9, 2010. Thai security forces used tear gas and water cannon against anti-government protesters who stormed a television station on the outskirts of Bangkok, an AFP reporter witnessed. (ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

Photos from Boston Blog, http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

Now the Tavors seem to be conspiculously missing. As they would probably form the more modern part of the soldiers equipment I would have thought that BIG questions would have been asked at the time by the army if these had gone missing in the alleged numbers - 25? - Not two and a half years later in an committee hearing.

And for this we rely on the word of the army spokesman, though this seems to be a popular trend on here. So if you believe him about the guns do you also believe the rest of his stories?

By the way, looking forward to Abhisits book the The Truthless Colour, or some such nonsense.

The first photo is the ONE that was handed back. The second photo is of the reds still in possession of them.

So, the second photo description is to be disregarded?

"Weapons seized from Thai riot policemen by Red Shirt protesters are returned after clashes at Thaicom station in Pathum Thani on the outskirts of Bangkok on April 9, 2010."

[whybother]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

You have no case to answer. The Army Spokesmans word will be forever tainted and not just for the remarks reported here. Anything he says is suspect and to have him answer to a committee as a witness is to invite derision. Likewise Prayuth is of a similar ilk as a "we didn't fire at the protesters" - It does not just refer to these specific dates.

And why address your comment to Buchholz? You'll only reinforce that "leader" tag.

Read the earlier comments and you'll understand why I addressed the comment to Buchholz.

[TheKrayTriplet]

The first one happened before the April 9th incident of the OP and the second reflects when Red Shirts took weapons from police, not army.

Ergo... there were multiple times when Red Shirts stole weapons from both the army AND the police.

Thanks for pointing that out, Triplet.

.

Is it stealing when the army abandon the weapons?

[TheKrayTriplet]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

You have no case to answer. The Army Spokesmans word will be forever tainted and not just for the remarks reported here. Anything he says is suspect and to have him answer to a committee as a witness is to invite derision. Likewise Prayuth is of a similar ilk as a "we didn't fire at the protesters" - It does not just refer to these specific dates.

And why address your comment to Buchholz? You'll only reinforce that "leader" tag.

Read the earlier comments and you'll understand why I addressed the comment to Buchholz.

Oh I know why. Just seems odd and impolite that you'd discuss my comments without inviting me to counter any claim you may have, but it's all right, you don't. Did Buchholz give his approval?

[TheKrayTriplet]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

Ditto....

Buchholz:

They probably will and that's fine.

btw, they'll save it for re-referencing countless times.

.

See

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/589905-military-arms-seized-by-red-shirt-protesters-missing/page__st__25#entry5737563

[Nickymaster]

Out of the 5 stories in this one piece may I suggest a closer look at the supposed main story: Arms seized by red shirts still missing says Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd.

• This supposed action took place two and a half years ago and nothing has been said about the missing "arms" since then - until Sansern needs a diversion from his evidence.
  
• The arms abandoned by the Red Shirts were given back to the police - see photos. Paperwork shouldn't be hard to check to see what was handed back.
  
• The Army has previous in this. A very relaxed attitude to "guarding" their war weapons. Remember the the loss of grenades and RPGs that happened back in 2010 that Gen. Anupong eventually concluded were stolen by his own soldiers and sold on the borders
  
• The complete cock up regarding the handing out and re-requisition of ammunition not used during 2010
  
• How convenient to blame the red shirts
  
• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

<snipped photo>

Anti-government protesters return weapons they snatched from security at Parliament to the police in Bangkok April 7, 2010. "Red shirt" protesters briefly occupied the grounds of Thailand's parliament on Wednesday as they stepped up pressure on the government to call an election. Hundreds of protesters, who have already forced the capital's main shopping district to close since Saturday, pushed through a thin line of riot police, but then left after about 20 minutes and massed outside the building. (REUTERS/Sukree Sukplang)

<snipped photo>

Weapons seized from Thai riot policemen by Red Shirt protesters are returned after clashes at Thaicom station in Pathum Thani on the outskirts of Bangkok on April 9, 2010. Thai security forces used tear gas and water cannon against anti-government protesters who stormed a television station on the outskirts of Bangkok, an AFP reporter witnessed. (ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

Photos from Boston Blog, http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

Now the Tavors seem to be conspiculously missing. As they would probably form the more modern part of the soldiers equipment I would have thought that BIG questions would have been asked at the time by the army if these had gone missing in the alleged numbers - 25? - Not two and a half years later in an committee hearing.

And for this we rely on the word of the army spokesman, though this seems to be a popular trend on here. So if you believe him about the guns do you also believe the rest of his stories?

By the way, looking forward to Abhisits book the The Truthless Colour, or some such nonsense.

The first photo is the ONE that was handed back. The second photo is of the reds still in possession of them.

So, the second photo description is to be disregarded?

"Weapons seized from Thai riot policemen by Red Shirt protesters are returned after clashes at Thaicom station in Pathum Thani on the outskirts of Bangkok on April 9, 2010."

I wonder whose weapons the Reds used to commit following crimes:

1) the firing of an M79 into the 11th Infantry Regiment on January 28, 2010;

2) the firing of grenades during the incidents at Kok Wua intersection on April 10, 2010, which caused 5 deaths of soldiers (including that of Col Romklao);

3) the firing into the oil depot at Prathum Thani on April 21, 2010;

4) the firing of an M79 into the BTS station at Sala-Daeng on April 22, 2010, which caused 2 deaths and 78 injuries;

5) the firing of an RPG into Dusit-Thani Hotel on May 17, 2010

6) the firing attack into the police flat at Lumpini Police Station on May 19, 2010, causing deaths and injuries of police officers and their families;

7) the firing of an M16 on police officers and soldiers in front of the Krung Thai Bank, Sala-Daeng Branch, on May 7, 2010, which caused 1 death and 2 injuries of policemen;

8) the firing into the UCL (อื้อ จื่อ เหลียง) building on May 14, 2010, causing 1 deaths and 4 injuries of police officers (see Thairath).

Edited October 9, 2012 by Nickymaster

[TheKrayTriplet]

I wonder whose weapons the Reds used to commit following crimes:

1) the firing of an M79 into the 11th Infantry Regiment on January 28, 2010;

2) the firing of grenades during the incidents at Kok Wua intersection on April 10, 2010, which caused 5 deaths of soldiers (including that of Col Romklao);

3) the firing into the oil depot at Prathum Thani on April 21, 2010;

4) the firing of an M79 into the BTS station at Sala-Daeng on April 22, 2010, which caused 2 deaths and 78 injuries;

5) the firing of an RPG into Dusit-Thani Hotel on May 17, 2010

6) the firing attack into the police flat at Lumpini Police Station on May 19, 2010, causing deaths and injuries of police officers and their families;

7) the firing of an M16 on police officers and soldiers in front of the Krung Thai Bank, Sala-Daeng Branch, on May 7, 2010, which caused 1 death and 2 injuries of policemen;

8) the firing into the UCL (อื้อ จื่อ เหลียง) building on May 14, 2010, causing 1 deaths and 4 injuries of police officers (see Thairath).

Have you got that page on "Repeat" ?

Edited October 9, 2012 by TheKrayTriplet

[Nickymaster]

Out of the 5 stories in this one piece may I suggest a closer look at the supposed main story: Arms seized by red shirts still missing says Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkam-nerd.

• This supposed action took place two and a half years ago and nothing has been said about the missing "arms" since then - until Sansern needs a diversion from his evidence.
  
• The arms abandoned by the Red Shirts were given back to the police - see photos. Paperwork shouldn't be hard to check to see what was handed back.
  
• The Army has previous in this. A very relaxed attitude to "guarding" their war weapons. Remember the the loss of grenades and RPGs that happened back in 2010 that Gen. Anupong eventually concluded were stolen by his own soldiers and sold on the borders
  
• The complete cock up regarding the handing out and re-requisition of ammunition not used during 2010
  
• How convenient to blame the red shirts
  
• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Anti-government protesters return weapons they snatched from security at Parliament to the police in Bangkok April 7, 2010. "Red shirt" protesters briefly occupied the grounds of Thailand's parliament on Wednesday as they stepped up pressure on the government to call an election. Hundreds of protesters, who have already forced the capital's main shopping district to close since Saturday, pushed through a thin line of riot police, but then left after about 20 minutes and massed outside the building. (REUTERS/Sukree Sukplang)

Weapons seized from Thai riot policemen by Red Shirt protesters are returned after clashes at Thaicom station in Pathum Thani on the outskirts of Bangkok on April 9, 2010. Thai security forces used tear gas and water cannon against anti-government protesters who stormed a television station on the outskirts of Bangkok, an AFP reporter witnessed. (ROSLAN RAHMAN/AFP/Getty Images)

Photos from Boston Blog, http://www.boston.co...n_thailand.html

Now the Tavors seem to be conspiculously missing. As they would probably form the more modern part of the soldiers equipment I would have thought that BIG questions would have been asked at the time by the army if these had gone missing in the alleged numbers - 25? - Not two and a half years later in an committee hearing.

And for this we rely on the word of the army spokesman, though this seems to be a popular trend on here. So if you believe him about the guns do you also believe the rest of his stories?

By the way, looking forward to Abhisits book the The Truthless Colour, or some such nonsense.

LOL. Praising Reds for returning some of the weapons they took from officials and used to kill officials. How many officials did they kill with those weapons? 20 or so?

[Nickymaster]

I wonder whose weapons the Reds used to commit following crimes:

1) the firing of an M79 into the 11th Infantry Regiment on January 28, 2010;

2) the firing of grenades during the incidents at Kok Wua intersection on April 10, 2010, which caused 5 deaths of soldiers (including that of Col Romklao);

3) the firing into the oil depot at Prathum Thani on April 21, 2010;

4) the firing of an M79 into the BTS station at Sala-Daeng on April 22, 2010, which caused 2 deaths and 78 injuries;

5) the firing of an RPG into Dusit-Thani Hotel on May 17, 2010

6) the firing attack into the police flat at Lumpini Police Station on May 19, 2010, causing deaths and injuries of police officers and their families;

7) the firing of an M16 on police officers and soldiers in front of the Krung Thai Bank, Sala-Daeng Branch, on May 7, 2010, which caused 1 death and 2 injuries of policemen;

8) the firing into the UCL (อื้อ จื่อ เหลียง) building on May 14, 2010, causing 1 deaths and 4 injuries of police officers (see Thairath).

Have you got that page on "Repeat" ?

Does it hurt?

[TheKrayTriplet]

Does it hurt?

Well no actually, just that you use it a lot for seemingly any thread disregarding whether it is relevant or not.

[TheKrayTriplet]

LOL. Praising Reds for returning some of the weapons they took from officials and used to kill officials. How many officials did they kill with those weapons? 20 or so?

Oh dear, now the nickymaster has finally lost the plot. You have proof of course that these very guns (which were handed backed to the officials) have been used by red shirts to kill officials. And where on earth did you get the 20 or so figure? Or are you counting the medics the army shot in with your total.

It would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious subject.

[Nickymaster]

LOL. Praising Reds for returning some of the weapons they took from officials and used to kill officials. How many officials did they kill with those weapons? 20 or so?

Oh dear, now the nickymaster has finally lost the plot. You have proof of course that these very guns (which were handed backed to the officials) have been used by red shirts to kill officials. And where on earth did you get the 20 or so figure? Or are you counting the medics the army shot in with your total.

It would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious subject.

You know what is laughable: You defending criminal activities by your red heroes and then praising them for returning some stolen weapons. That is laughable.

Even though the subject is so serious.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

Does it hurt?

Well no actually, just that you use it a lot for seemingly any thread disregarding whether it is relevant or not.

"It doesn't hurt to provide another view". Remember those words?

[SICHONSTEVE]

The military did not fire live bullets at the protesters but shot into the air to frighten them, he added.

This is one of the problems with this debate.

Was this statement talking about a specific incident/day? It obviously wasn't the case for the whole protest. So is it a reporting issue, where they leave out specifics, or was Sansern talking about a protest in a different universe?

The same goes for the existence of the MIB. It is clear to everyone that they were there. It is clear to everyone that they supported the red shirts. The TRCT reported that the MIB had the support of the red shirts, which seemed obvious from many other reports as well. Not all red shirts would have known about them. Maybe, initially, not all the red shirt leaders knew about them, but by the end of the protests they would have known a lot more about them. But there is still denial from red shirts, their leaders, their supporters, and PTP MPs that they didn't exist. They're in the same universe as Sansern.

They DO exist, otherwise there is something wrong with my eye sight!!! There is indisputable evidence showing them getting out of a van, firing off several rounds and then disappearing into the shadows - what could be more convincing than this!!!

Anyone who disputes this matter are blind idiots. liars, or BOTH!!!!

[hellodolly]

This subject is going around & around so many times now I'm getting dizzy.. & bored.

It was a dis-organised protest that should never have been allowed to mass in numbers as it did, it then got way out of control & ended

with a deadly crackdown.

Shootings, deaths & mistakes made by all concerned, put the history books away & move on!

People will always correctly blame the other side, because there was blame on both sides, so it will never end !

But lets not drag this again & again into the limelight, learn & move on.

Talk is cheap. Let's move on. Ya right.

We still have the man who paid for it running the government while he is in exile. Tell him it is over with, he lost now get out of the way.

Be sure to get back to us how successful you are.

Tell us how grateful he is for you coming up with the answer to this complicated problem.

Who knows maybe he will fly back with you to surrender himself to authorities and serve his time

plus any he would accrue from his other charges.

Not likely he will probably at the least have you thrown out as a lunatic.

Edited October 9, 2012 by hellodolly

[jcw]

This story is so incredibly outrageous, it even beats the best form notthenation

[hellodolly]

^ if you're going to post photos, please don't imbed over-sized ones that distort the page

When you have nothing that makes sense that is what you do to cover up your bias.

[Buchholz]

• My, what a reliable army mouthpiece Sanserm is. Still maintaining the army didn't shoot at protesters and the "fact" that it was still unclear as to whether the army was responsible for the deaths at Wat Prathumwanaram - how contemptible an attitude is that?
  

Buchholz ... I rest my case.

You have no case to answer. The Army Spokesmans word will be forever tainted and not just for the remarks reported here. Anything he says is suspect and to have him answer to a committee as a witness is to invite derision. Likewise Prayuth is of a similar ilk as a "we didn't fire at the protesters" - It does not just refer to these specific dates.

And why address your comment to Buchholz? You'll only reinforce that "leader" tag.

Read the earlier comments and you'll understand why I addressed the comment to Buchholz.

I rest my case now, whybother.

EDIT to add:

Fellow Gang of 7 Member

Edited October 9, 2012 by Buchholz

[thaicbr]

i think the reason that the guns have not been returned is very simple...... they used them as bongs... peace maaaaaaaaaan. Phua Thai say they were peaceful protesters....right.

[TheKrayTriplet]

Does it hurt?

Well no actually, just that you use it a lot for seemingly any thread disregarding whether it is relevant or not.

"It doesn't hurt to provide another view". Remember those words?

On a thread despite not being relevant? Sorry, thats not what I had in mind when posting "It doesn't hurt to provide another view" and nor should it be.

You tried linking the thread about allegedly missing guns with a list of incidents by unknown people in the most case which include 3 gun incidents out of the 8 provided. The remainder are grenade incidents and an "RPG" which wasn't an RPG incident but an M79 incident.

Now look again and tell me how relevant that list is to this thread?

[TheKrayTriplet]

i think the reason that the guns have not been returned is very simple...... they used them as bongs... peace maaaaaaaaaan. Phua Thai say they were peaceful protesters....right.

OH NO, It's

Could explain some of the posts..............

Edited October 9, 2012 by TheKrayTriplet

[Thai at Heart]

Did they lose them again?

[Noistar]

In this thread, is there ever a hint of criticism of the Red Shirts from certain poster? I can't find it.

Seems to be black and white for them. Army/Abhisit bad, Red Shirts/Thaksin good.

End of topic

[rubl]

The weapons belonging to the Army were confiscated by red protesters during the bloody protest in April 2010. They were displayed on the red-shirts' stage at Rajdamnern Avenue on the day, he said.

The description two and a half years ago was slightly different

"Thousands of "Red Shirt" protesters swarmed back into an area that had briefly been taken by government forces on Saturday night. The streets were littered with bullet casings, rocks and pools of blood as protesters showed off a pile of weapons captured from the troops, including rifles and heavy calibre machine-gun rounds."

http://news.uk.msn.c...entid=152978069

[Thai at Heart]

In this thread, is there ever a hint of criticism of the Red Shirts from certain poster? I can't find it.

Seems to be black and white for them. Army/Abhisit bad, Red Shirts/Thaksin good.

End of topic

Well being in the Thai army when you get involved in shooting your own people is hardly destined to make you popular.

The reds pushed, abhisit had no choice, some people shot at the army, the army shot back, thaksin got his blood bath.

It's not as though it is a popularity contest. The army did more or less what they had to do, but it doesn't make then the good guys.