Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[MAJIC]

I have seen some nice documentaries, its not only metabolism but also for some they just don't feel hungry or dont have the need to eat.

I know that i am one of those guys that has to put a lot of effort in it to loose weight. My metabolism isn't that fast. That does not mean i can't loose weight just takes more of an effort as the gifted people.

MAJIC, the stones thing don't say a thing to me im all for KG's.

As for the Thais i seen plenty of fat ones too but that again is down to diet.

In the end it is a choice.. but if you don't know any better that what your eating is not good then you got a problem.

I should converted, anyway 1 stone =6.35 kg

so 8.5 Stone = 53.97 Kg

That is not heavy at all, wow, that is almost Thai style weight.

Considering all my ailments,being underweight is probably keeping me alive a bit longer,and the Beer helps

[billd766]

I started it way back in 2006.

In 2008 I lost 12.5 kg, 2009 I lost 11kg, 2010 only 5.5kg, 2011 5.2kg but each year I slowly put it back on because I enjoy good food.

IMO this contradicts your original attitude/post. You say you're happy being fat, but you dieted for 5 years in an attempt to lose it.

It looks more like you're a failed dieter rather than a person who is happy to be fat. Even the fact that you visited this forum points that way.

Let me tell you something, we all like good food - that never changes. You're no different in that regard than the rest of us.

You are more than welcome to your opinion of me but the truth is I don't give a rats a** what anybody on the forum thinks about me.

No I am not a failed dieter. I dieted for a while as after working in NZ and having the opportunity of eating many of the foods I used to eat in the west I overindulged.

As I said in an earlier post I am happy with me and I know that I will die one day and it is MY choice to die fat and happy than thin and miserable.

[billd766]

The very idea of choice is generally overrated. The "could-have-done-otherwise" arguments are purely hypothetical, ignoring actual contextual or situational constraints in the past and presents. I am afraid, this is not a very practical approach for future action.

Your post is the perfect definition of "gobbledegook".

http://www.urbandict...=gooble-de-gook

You are entitled to my your opinion.

http://opinion.urbanup.com/790706

It would be better if you stopped hijacking the thread. Thank you.

Well out of the 32 posts before this 9 of them or 28% were yours.

[smokie36]

I like pizza, beer and burgers. I also enjoy salad and pasta, chocolate etc.....eat whatever I want whenever I wish to eat it.

However I exercise in the swimming pool at least 100 lengths 3/4 times a week, sometimes more.

If I didn't exercise I would eat less junk for sure.....as there is no way I would want to join the teletubbies.

Looking at my diet I wonder how many people get so large....I mean I have a poor diet but weigh 80 kg. These guys must do zero exercise and eat 10 times a day!!

I'm not looking for advice by the way...

[tropo]

You are more than welcome to your opinion of me but the truth is I don't give a rats a** what anybody on the forum thinks about me.

No I am not a failed dieter. I dieted for a while as after working in NZ and having the opportunity of eating many of the foods I used to eat in the west I overindulged.

As I said in an earlier post I am happy with me and I know that I will die one day and it is MY choice to die fat and happy than thin and miserable.

That's a feeble excuse for 5 years of dieting to lose weight. 5 years is not "a while" - it's a long time.

I would say you're fat and UNHAPPY, and in denial.

I really think "you give a rat's a**" because you kept very accurate records, down to 100 gram (5.2kg) accuracy... and that was up until last year.

[tropo]

Well out of the 32 posts before this 9 of them or 28% were yours.

Check the definition of hijacking.

[tropo]

I like pizza, beer and burgers. I also enjoy salad and pasta, chocolate etc.....eat whatever I want whenever I wish to eat it.

However I exercise in the swimming pool at least 100 lengths 3/4 times a week, sometimes more.

If I didn't exercise I would eat less junk for sure.....as there is no way I would want to join the teletubbies.

Looking at my diet I wonder how many people get so large....I mean I have a poor diet but weigh 80 kg. These guys must do zero exercise and eat 10 times a day!!

I'm not looking for advice by the way...

Let's get this into perspective. Your kilogram weight is irrelevant. You could be 80kg and 40% fat or 10% fat. How tall are you? How old are you?

I weigh 100kg and I'm lean. Going on BMI I would be considered obese.

We need specifics besides bodyweight to appreciate your success at sustaining a healthy bodyfat level on a bad diet.

[smokie36]

I like pizza, beer and burgers. I also enjoy salad and pasta, chocolate etc.....eat whatever I want whenever I wish to eat it.

However I exercise in the swimming pool at least 100 lengths 3/4 times a week, sometimes more.

If I didn't exercise I would eat less junk for sure.....as there is no way I would want to join the teletubbies.

Looking at my diet I wonder how many people get so large....I mean I have a poor diet but weigh 80 kg. These guys must do zero exercise and eat 10 times a day!!

I'm not looking for advice by the way...

Let's get this into perspective. Your kilogram weight is irrelevant. You could be 80kg and 40% fat or 10% fat. How tall are you? How old are you?

I weigh 100kg and I'm lean. Going on BMI I would be considered obese.

We need specifics besides bodyweight to appreciate your success at sustaining a healthy bodyfat level on a bad diet.

My BMI is hang on...24.7.

[tropo]

My BMI is hang on...24.7.

As I tried to explain before, BMI tells us nothing about how much fat you're carrying.

[bonobo]

Being fat is a choice, pure and simple. Calories in vs. calories out.

However, and this is a big however, there are many factors which affect that at well. Some people are genetically predisposed to gaining weight. They can eat the same amount as someone else, exercise as much, and they will be heavier. Some have truly addictive tendencies that can make it almost impossible to refrain from certain foods without medical treatment. SOme people lead lifestyles that make it very difficult to maintain a fitness regimen.

To top it off, overeating is not the same as smoking, for example. Anyone can quit smoking, but imagine if a smoker was trying to cut down, but was forced to smoke two cigarettes per day. Imagine how difficult that would be? You cant go cold turkey on food, either. You have to eat something.

For some people, even if they understand that being fat is a health issue, their choice is to enjoy life, the good food, the beer, etc, consequences be damned. That is a personal choice, and, frankly, it is easy to understand it. Food is one of the most sensuous pleasures in life, after all. Living a possibly shorter life but with great food could sound better than a longer life eating rice crackers.

If we had a similar choice about sex, what would most of us do? If sex led to heart attacks and diabetes, would we give it up? The mere fact that people practice unsafe sex in the age of HIV would seem to indicate to me that most of us would still have sex even if it led to health problems. So I think it is easy to understand that many people would go the same way with food--enjoying it even knowing that their habits lead them to gain weight.

[tominbkk]

I would say most overweight people who don't have a medical condition are eating to replace something else missing in their life. People will eat to mask anger, fear, sadness, loneliness, tiredness. We learn how to do this usually from parents (I did). These comfort foods are also usually high carb and low nutrition (people don't eat a bowl of celery and steak when they are sad).

[tropo]

If we had a similar choice about sex, what would most of us do? If sex led to heart attacks and diabetes, would we give it up? The mere fact that people practice unsafe sex in the age of HIV would seem to indicate to me that most of us would still have sex even if it led to health problems. So I think it is easy to understand that many people would go the same way with food--enjoying it even knowing that their habits lead them to gain weight.

I would give up sex if it caused hear attacks and diabetes - but a better cure is getting married.

The problem with getting fat is that it creeps up slowly. People don't notice it on a daily basis and by the time they take notice it has become a big problem.

BTW, you can eat very well (good food) and still stay lean. I don't believe it is "good food" which makes most people fat, it's convenience - fast, junk food. It takes effort to buy and prepare good food. Seeking it out in restaurants is not easy either. Staying lean takes a bit of effort for most people.

[JSixpack]

Smoking, over-eating, drugs, alcohol ..... all personal lifestyle choices.

It's up to you!

Yes indeed i agree 100%, as long as your not bothering anyone with it im ok. Nobody should tell someone what to do.

Problems start if healthy people have to finance the healthcare of the unhealthy. Not happening here but back in my home country it does. So there id say let the people doing unhealthy things pay more. (no need to discuss it here) You could argue they die sooner so cost less.

Exactly.

And there are peripheral issues as well, like having to sit next to an obese person taking up half your seat in an airplane or bus.

Complaints/lawsuits from the obese who demand to be accommodated.

Even something like buying clothes--it seems a bit harder now to find good-fitting clothes in the old normal/slim sizes.

[tropo]

People will eat to mask anger, fear, sadness, loneliness, tiredness. We learn how to do this usually from parents (I did). These comfort foods are also usually high carb and low nutrition (people don't eat a bowl of celery and steak when they are sad).

Perhaps that has made it easier for me. When I'm angry, lonely, tired, fearful or sad I eat less.

[robblok]

@bonobo,

Good points, and things are not always fair some people do have it easier as others. Some have to work real hard for results but in the end like you said its a choice.

When you choose you give up other pleasures and food can indeed be real pleasurable.

Things like health and such you don't really notice until your confronted with the effects of being fat and then its usually too late.

[tropo]

There hasn't been much talk about alcohol. I think for many overweight people being fat is a side effect of being addicted to alcohol. Alcohol provides 7 calories per gram and slows down the metabolism.

People who are drunk or under the weather from alcohol are not likely to make healthy food choices either, so it's huge problem.

[robblok]

There hasn't been much talk about alcohol. I think for many overweight people being fat is a side effect of being addicted to alcohol. Alcohol provides 7 calories per gram and slows down the metabolism.

People who are drunk or under the weather from alcohol are not likely to make healthy food choices either, so it's huge problem.

I gave up on alcohol 10 months ago for that reason, i had my occasional binge night once a week or once every 2 weeks. Once i decided to really go for it that was the end of the alcohol.

[Tolley]

If we had a similar choice about sex, what would most of us do? If sex led to heart attacks and diabetes, would we give it up? The mere fact that people practice unsafe sex in the age of HIV would seem to indicate to me that most of us would still have sex even if it led to health problems. So I think it is easy to understand that many people would go the same way with food--enjoying it even knowing that their habits lead them to gain weight.

I would give up sex if it caused hear attacks and diabetes - but a better cure is getting married.

The problem with getting fat is that it creeps up slowly. People don't notice it on a daily basis and by the time they take notice it has become a big problem.

BTW, you can eat very well (good food) and still stay lean. I don't believe it is "good food" which makes most people fat, it's convenience - fast, junk food. It takes effort to buy and prepare good food. Seeking it out in restaurants is not easy either. Staying lean takes a bit of effort for most people.

Funny things is that when you get used to eating good wholesome food your body craves it and you enjoy it. The body knows when it is getting good fuel and it reacts badly when it is getting rubbish.

I dont enjoy eating fatty food, overeating etc because it makes me feel bad. Food is not just about the initial taste sensation. Plenty of things taste good but then react badly with your body and health which is a signal to avoid that type of food.

[laislica]

Smoking, over-eating, drugs, alcohol ..... all personal lifestyle choices.

It's up to you!

Until they become an addiction which starts taking over your mind.

I've never smoked, but I've heard people say that even after decades of abstinence they can still get urges to smoke. That's one example of a mighty powerful addiction.

Here comes a serious post so - Get the Hammers out lads!! This is TV and everyone must be bashed

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mohandas Gandhi

Tropo you have hit the nail on the head.

Addiction!

Sugars of any type are high in instant energy and cause the release of "Feel Good" chemicals in the brain, Dopamine etc., exactly in the same way as tobacco, alcohol, cocaine and other drugs.

There is no choice involved.

We are driven by chemistry, the food manufacturers know all about this and they tweak the ingredients of most everything they make to help us to become addicted and stay that way. The so called Zero calorie sweeteners actually make you want more food!! Oh the big companies have some very clever people working for them. I read a book in 1970 called The Space Merchants, it was written in the 50's and it predicted that the food producers would do this - scary or what? Science fiction now science fact!

So called health foods like Probiotics - added sugar - why?

Health bars full of High Fructose Corn Syrup - Why?

I have had a weight problem all my life (now 70), like Billd I went on diets and lost some, not enough and it came back with a vengeance.

Then I got like the OP, I studied and experimented and even paid for online courses to help me lose weight and I have changed my life style since that is the only way for me.

I have the grehlen, leptin and insulin problem for sure, it's a struggle.

The poster who commented that giving up tobacco is easier is totally correct - I did that from a 20 year 40-60 a day habit!

However, It is not possible to give up food!!

It's like living with someone who smokes or drinks and won't stop - then you try to stop when it's all around you every day!

I now have a body fat of less than 25%, I use an electronic caliper to make the measurements.

I weigh 156 pounds, 11 stone 2 or 71 Kg.

Height 5´10" or 178 Cm

Waist 34" or 86 Cm

(Inside leg 31.5", blue eyes and I still have hair - Cheeky )

So what's the answer?

It's different for every individual.

I suggest you find out if your body is tuned best for carbs or proteins and adjust foods to suit.

There are questionnaires on the web to help you find out.

Then as the OP says - it´s all about how much you put (or pour) into your mouth.

Also try to stop eating anything after 9 pm and do your exercise before breakfast.

As you age, things change. The efficiency of various body parts deteriorate. In the case of older women, they will naturally add some fat because that is needed to store hormones that they need but don't have the capability of making so well as before menopause.

I really liked the posts by Billd because he knew that getting to a "perfect fat ratio" was best for health and gave it his best shot.

Then came to the realisation that for whatever reasons, he was unable to maintain the change and then simply accepted that he is as he is and stopped stressing about it and began to live life to the full again.

I think that Tropo is being unfair to call him a "Failed Dieter". For me, that spoils some of the great points that Tropo has made.

Exercise - I believe that Cardio will not help in the long run, it will of course wear your joints out.

The machine that Tropo mentioned would be great if you can afford it.

If not then try 20 min sessions of, walking (until you are fit enough to:-), then jogging (until you are fit enough to:-), then sprinting.

The sprinting should be the same as children at play do. Run like mad for as many seconds as you can and then walk for half a min to get your breath back. and then repeat this.

At first you may only do the whole thing for a few cycles over just a few mins but over tine you will improve until you can get tp 15-20 mins.

At that level, you would only need to do a session once or twice a week. The rest time is as important as the exercise time.

New studies show that people who do only 30 mins of exercise at a session compared with someone who did 60 mins at a session, lost more weight than the 60 min group.

Their conclusion was that they were not exhausted by over training and didn't crave extra food to make up for the calories used.

Don't sit down for too long at any one time. Just get up and move around.

Finally - enjoy life, smile all the time and feel good and see yourself as you would like to be.

[billd766]

You are more than welcome to your opinion of me but the truth is I don't give a rats a** what anybody on the forum thinks about me.

No I am not a failed dieter. I dieted for a while as after working in NZ and having the opportunity of eating many of the foods I used to eat in the west I overindulged.

As I said in an earlier post I am happy with me and I know that I will die one day and it is MY choice to die fat and happy than thin and miserable.

That's a feeble excuse for 5 years of dieting to lose weight. 5 years is not "a while" - it's a long time.

I would say you're fat and UNHAPPY, and in denial.

I really think "you give a rat's a**" because you kept very accurate records, down to 100 gram (5.2kg) accuracy... and that was up until last year.

Do you personally know me?

Are you a fully qualified medical doctor?

Are you a dietician?

If you answered no to the above please keep your comments about me and anyone else you don't know personally to yourself.

I don't know you at all and I am never likely to nor do I want to.

If you have a problem with this response it is YOUR problem and not mine.

[tropo]

Do you personally know me?

Are you a fully qualified medical doctor?

Are you a dietician?

If you answered no to the above please keep your comments about me and anyone else you don't know personally to yourself.

I don't know you at all and I am never likely to nor do I want to.

If you have a problem with this response it is YOUR problem and not mine.

I have no problem with your response. You're the one having those difficulties.

I stated my opinion based on what you offered and it stands. Based on the contradictory nature of what you state it's the only logical conclusion to come too.

[TommoPhysicist]

I stated my opinion based on what you offered and it stands. Based on the contradictory nature of what you state it's the only logical conclusion to come too.

Ignore 'Mr. Sensitive 766'

Fat people are fat because they eat more than they use. 'Medical condition' is just an excuse for the weak willed to trot out. If you can't exercise because of ill health, eat less. You can't get more out, than you put in, this is a simple law of physics

[robblok]

I stated my opinion based on what you offered and it stands. Based on the contradictory nature of what you state it's the only logical conclusion to come too.

Ignore 'Mr. Sensitive 766'

Fat people are fat because they eat more than they use. 'Medical condition' is just an excuse for the weak willed to trot out. If you can't exercise because of ill health, eat less. You can't get more out, than you put in, this is a simple law of physics

I agree with you but not 100% some people do have a lot more problems then others. I have recently seen a few documentaries that prove that. But still your conclusion stands its input verses output. Those people only have a hard time resisting the imput.

Also for some the output is lower as for others. If you see how much i exercise and how much lean mass i pack and then you look at how much i eat. Im well below what i should eat according to all the sites ect. There is a large variation in metabolic rates.

And no im not fat, just trying to go that extra mile to get a 6pack (if ever ) But i read loads of stuff about food, watched documentaries and been exercising on and off for most of my adult life. So i do know a bit about it. Tropo can eat a lot more then me he probably works out maybe a bit longer then me (not that much) and packs about 5-7 kg more muscle. But he can eat at least 50% more then me (if not more)

[laislica]

I stated my opinion based on what you offered and it stands. Based on the contradictory nature of what you state it's the only logical conclusion to come too.

Ignore 'Mr. Sensitive 766'

Fat people are fat because they eat more than they use. 'Medical condition' is just an excuse for the weak willed to trot out. If you can't exercise because of ill health, eat less. You can't get more out, than you put in, this is a simple law of physics

I agree with you but not 100% some people do have a lot more problems then others. I have recently seen a few documentaries that prove that. But still your conclusion stands its input verses output. Those people only have a hard time resisting the imput.

Also for some the output is lower as for others. If you see how much i exercise and how much lean mass i pack and then you look at how much i eat. Im well below what i should eat according to all the sites ect. There is a large variation in metabolic rates.

And no im not fat, just trying to go that extra mile to get a 6pack (if ever ) But i read loads of stuff about food, watched documentaries and been exercising on and off for most of my adult life. So i do know a bit about it. Tropo can eat a lot more then me he probably works out maybe a bit longer then me (not that much) and packs about 5-7 kg more muscle. But he can eat at least 50% more then me (if not more)

It has been said - ADDICTION and that's the real problem. The medical conditions are also real but may be less important.

More in than out = stores of fat.

Well that is our design, in times before the fridge and supermarket it was the correct strategy for survival.

Now it's a problem with 24x7 food availability.

Actually made much worse because the food is engineered to make us want more.

Why do I get the feeling that I am preaching to the converted?

[TommoPhysicist]

Just for an illustration that fat is caused by overeating.

Do a google search, type 'refugees' then click on 'images'.

Count how many fat people you can see!

[robblok]

I stated my opinion based on what you offered and it stands. Based on the contradictory nature of what you state it's the only logical conclusion to come too.

Ignore 'Mr. Sensitive 766'

Fat people are fat because they eat more than they use. 'Medical condition' is just an excuse for the weak willed to trot out. If you can't exercise because of ill health, eat less. You can't get more out, than you put in, this is a simple law of physics

I agree with you but not 100% some people do have a lot more problems then others. I have recently seen a few documentaries that prove that. But still your conclusion stands its input verses output. Those people only have a hard time resisting the imput.

Also for some the output is lower as for others. If you see how much i exercise and how much lean mass i pack and then you look at how much i eat. Im well below what i should eat according to all the sites ect. There is a large variation in metabolic rates.

And no im not fat, just trying to go that extra mile to get a 6pack (if ever ) But i read loads of stuff about food, watched documentaries and been exercising on and off for most of my adult life. So i do know a bit about it. Tropo can eat a lot more then me he probably works out maybe a bit longer then me (not that much) and packs about 5-7 kg more muscle. But he can eat at least 50% more then me (if not more)

It has been said - ADDICTION and that's the real problem. The medical conditions are also real but may be less important.

More in than out = stores of fat.

Well that is our design, in times before the fridge and supermarket it was the correct strategy for survival.

Now it's a problem with 24x7 food availability.

Actually made much worse because the food is engineered to make us want more.

Why do I get the feeling that I am preaching to the converted?

I am with you, i still feel its a life style choice and that people could help themselves. Many choose not too. Also it is harder on some people then on other ones.

I wont force anyone or tell anyone they should be slim. Though i guess most guys prefer slim girls. I think guys in general also like guys that are relatively slim. Almost nobody likes a guy that is too overweight. They might like him for other reasons, his nature or his money but i bet if they could change it with a magic wand they would.

[robblok]

Just for an illustration that fat is caused by overeating.

Do a google search, type 'refugees' then click on 'images'.

Count how many fat people you can see!

Agreed, its all about out vs in. If people really wanted to loose the weight they could. Tommo but it is not at easy for everyone, differences in metabolic rate and differences in the need for food.

But yes everyone can loose the weight if they really want too.

[laislica]

Just for an illustration that fat is caused by overeating.

Do a google search, type 'refugees' then click on 'images'.

Count how many fat people you can see!

Agreed, its all about out vs in. If people really wanted to loose the weight they could. Tommo but it is not at easy for everyone, differences in metabolic rate and differences in the need for food.

But yes everyone can loose the weight if they really want too.

The hardest problem is that dieting too hard stops weight loss to a large extent because the body goes into starvation mode, making fat loss almost impossible.

As you age you need less calories but people usually consume more, often for social reasons.

Just a few alcoholic drinks in addition to a sensible diet can screw things up.

Especially when you realise that a small biscuit gives enough energy for the average person to climb the Eiffel Tower.

Our bodies are far too clever by half!

http://www.fatburningfurnace.com/fbf-mbrc.php

By using an online metabolic rate calculator I get the following stats:-

At my age and weight I should eat 2,040 calories to maintain weight

To lose weight between 1,240 and 1,540 BUT

For best fat loss results, it is recommended that men do not consume less than 1600 calories per day

Therefore, it will take a long time for me to reduce my % fat unless I manage to increase my activity level significantly.

[laislica]

Here is an online % Fat calculator

http://www.fatburningfurnace.com/fbf-bdyfatc.php

Here's an interesting snip from an online fitness "Expert"

The majority of exercisers today still rely on long duration moderate paced aerobic exercise as their primary routine to burn fat fast. But recent studies have shown that this is a big, I mean big mistake. In fact, you could say that the whole aerobics explosion of a few decades past was one of the biggest mistakes in the health and fitness industry. Why?

There are several reasons, but I’ll focus on the two main issues here. When you exercise at a moderate pace for extended periods of time (as in the typically recommended percent of your target heart rate), your body is burning fat during the exercise. While this may sound good, it’s actually bad news.

This sends a signal to your body to keep a certain amount of stored fat available for your next workout. You’re essentially telling it that it needs fat available to burn, ‘because you’ll be doing this exercise again. So while we may be burning some calories during this exercise, after the exercise is over, our body begins storing up some fat for the next workout. Obviously not what we’re looking for in terms of maximum ability to burn fat fast.

The other big concern with moderately paced aerobic exercise performed several times per week is that it trains your body (heart, lungs, muscles, etc.) to become efficient. Again, this may sound good, but what is actually happening is bad for long term health. You are working only within your existing aerobic limits, without improving your aerobic capacity.

This is important because your aerobic capacity is what determines how your body responds in times of physical, emotional, and mental stress. If you reduce your capacity for work, as you do in this type of exercise, you’re reducing your long term health, no to mention a poor chance of burning fat.

[laislica]

^{Most fat people eat too much and are lazy.The fatter one gets the lack of energy one has,hence no excersise}

But what to do?

There is so much conflicting information around.

Some say not to eat after 9 pm, another says Never go to bed hungry.

Some say hours of cardio, others say cardio is bad......

Some say intermittent fasting, others say eat six small meals.

I guess that I'll be dead by the time I find out

Still, I could be the fittest body in the graveyard