Foreign Words Turn The Focus On Our Native Tongue: Thai Editorial

[Thai at Heart]

Wrong about leeches...wrong about languages perhaps....

the thai people try to speek "english" ,they make mistakes but they try,they at least speak more than 1 language !

i'm 9 years here ,and i dont know 1 englishman ,welsh,american ,canadian...who can speak english correctly !

They all speak a tongue(dialect)but thats all they can.Put on the same table they dont understand what the other says !

So let comments on languages be made by people who speak at least 3 languages ( like a belgium,dutch,.... 12 year old ) .

If you can speak only english you look very dumb in any spanish,french,german,chinese,portugees,italian....... speaking area , and

you are just lucky that the other "educated"people can help you and understand your weakness by speaking some english.

only comment if you are educated please.

Luk, English is a weird gift because even if you speak it terribly you can still be understood from a bangkok bar girl, to a Mumbai train porter to even max boyce. This is largely unlike many other languages where how you say it derives the meaning.

Yes accents are broad and numerous, but there is only one absolute perfection and it is hard to achieve and everyone makes mistakes. as for believing people don't understand each other, the only accent i couldn't decipher was deep north Carolina, but after a month or so i got it.

I was lucky i studied several languages, as do many others, but can i really speak Thai, i would never claim to, no matter how complimentary people may be. English joins the world like no other language.

[Dap]

Did anybody else read the OP headline several times before noticing the 'T' in naive?

No, but (just guessing) we will now

OH, just did myself ... very gooood!

Edited October 11, 2012 by Dap

[bumpkin]

I dont believe the Thais need be too worried about a standard spelling for English words, if the spelling and grammar used by some of the English language contributors here is anything to go by !

[Soutpeel]

I dont believe the Thais need be too worried about a standard spelling for English words, if the spelling and grammar used by some of the English language contributors here is anything to go by !

I agree, maybe show your students extracts from this thread..

[toybits]

Not only Thais are having problems with English. Whoever said "Learning English was EASY"??

[chooka]

I dont believe the Thais need be too worried about a standard spelling for English words, if the spelling and grammar used by some of the English language contributors here is anything to go by !

A little light relief.

[ScouseTommy]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

(BTW I'm a teacher and in my school the teachers from the U.S. have to teach English in the U.K. form.)

Typical American you take our Language (It is called English, after England) and dumb it down to make it easier for your fellow Americans. Then you claim this is evolution! You couldn't deal with a 'U' in your harbour, a bit to complicated so you dropped it; evolution at work! Personally I think the reason I see so many Americans strolling around Bangkok with 6ft tall wide shouldered...ahem.... ladies, is due to the fact that a fanny in UK English, is not in the same location as it is in the states!

Say what you want, but you Brits smoke way more fags than we Americans ever will!

Touche, LOL

[Noistar]

Well that new spelling ergo the new pronunciations should have English teacher pulling their hair out. One idea that could be used is for the various government dept to put there heads together and come up with an agreed standardized English spelling for Suvarnabumhi airport. As the various roads signs and the like around Bangkok give it several different spellings

In CM, Maharaj Hospital from one direction, Maharach from the other.

Chom Tong, Jom Tong. The list is endless.

When the Thai language allows the same pronunciation for 2 different characters, how can they demand 'standardization' with an International language.

The fact it is a tonal language obviously means the rules are different. My wife often corrects my pronunciation with but a very subtle change.

The only 'G' character, is often pronounced 'K' (like kilometre), when there are already 5 'K' characters.

Farang bend over backwards to try to understand non-native English speakers.

It's bad enough trying to get Thais to make some effort to put attempts at speaking Thai into context, let alone trying to make things even more difficult purely to 'share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue'.

Thai is not spoken internationally. Any changes to 'internationalize' it must be to the benefit of Thailand.

I have no facts to support my belief that the vast majority of Thais couldn't care less

[Thai at Heart]

Well that new spelling ergo the new pronunciations should have English teacher pulling their hair out. One idea that could be used is for the various government dept to put there heads together and come up with an agreed standardized English spelling for Suvarnabumhi airport. As the various roads signs and the like around Bangkok give it several different spellings

In CM, Maharaj Hospital from one direction, Maharach from the other.

Chom Tong, Jom Tong. The list is endless.

When the Thai language allows the same pronunciation for 2 different characters, how can they demand 'standardization' with an International language.

The fact it is a tonal language obviously means the rules are different. My wife often corrects my pronunciation with but a very subtle change.

The only 'G' character, is often pronounced 'K' (like kilometre), when there are already 5 'K' characters.

Farang bend over backwards to try to understand non-native English speakers.

It's bad enough trying to get Thais to make some effort to put attempts at speaking Thai into context, let alone trying to make things even more difficult purely to 'share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue'.

Thai is not spoken internationally. Any changes to 'internationalize' it must be to the benefit of Thailand.

I have no facts to support my belief that the vast majority of Thais couldn't care less

No they probably couldn't care less now but it's a start. Ever tried to put ekkamai into a satnav? They do need desperately to settle on a standard English spelling for their towns and roads. Sukumvit, sukhumvit, sukhumwit and the clincher is Phattaya on the expressway somewhere.

[bigbamboo]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Oh here we go...and why is American English a vast improvement pray tell...oh great Ajaan ?

Oh my God! American English is just awesome!

And the best part is you only need a limited vocabulary to get by.

[Thai at Heart]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Oh here we go...and why is American English a vast improvement pray tell...oh great Ajaan ?

Oh my God! American English is just awesome!

And the best part is you only need a limited vocabulary to get by.

And if your keyboard loses a few vowels, it passes muster.

[Noistar]

Well that new spelling ergo the new pronunciations should have English teacher pulling their hair out. One idea that could be used is for the various government dept to put there heads together and come up with an agreed standardized English spelling for Suvarnabumhi airport. As the various roads signs and the like around Bangkok give it several different spellings

In CM, Maharaj Hospital from one direction, Maharach from the other.

Chom Tong, Jom Tong. The list is endless.

When the Thai language allows the same pronunciation for 2 different characters, how can they demand 'standardization' with an International language.

The fact it is a tonal language obviously means the rules are different. My wife often corrects my pronunciation with but a very subtle change.

The only 'G' character, is often pronounced 'K' (like kilometre), when there are already 5 'K' characters.

Farang bend over backwards to try to understand non-native English speakers.

It's bad enough trying to get Thais to make some effort to put attempts at speaking Thai into context, let alone trying to make things even more difficult purely to 'share a passionate sense of ownership of our own tongue'.

Thai is not spoken internationally. Any changes to 'internationalize' it must be to the benefit of Thailand.

I have no facts to support my belief that the vast majority of Thais couldn't care less

No they probably couldn't care less now but it's a start. Ever tried to put ekkamai into a satnav? They do need desperately to settle on a standard English spelling for their towns and roads. Sukumvit, sukhumvit, sukhumwit and the clincher is Phattaya on the expressway somewhere.

I just believe that the 'man on the street' isn't fussed about tone-marks on an English word. If anything it must be a relief that its simple.

If the OED professors want to keep Thailand in the dark ages, good luck to them. The rest of the world won't be waiting

[Thai at Heart]

To up the page, just remember, if you want to smoke a fag, rubbers are for shagging.

[7by7]

Isn't the editorial, and so one assumes this topic, about Thai spelling of borrowed English words in Thai script?

Not the differences between American and correct British spelling!

[Bagwan]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

As a Brit I have to agree. The US spelling of many words makes more sense than the accepted English form. The use of the letter Z (zed not zee, cos' I want to hang on to that) instead of an S makes sense. What really gets my goat is the voluble US commentators on ESPN, one of whom cannot prounce the word 'four'. Every time I hear him I want to reach out for a large cod and smack round the head with it.

[Bagwan]

I am half Welsh, I hereby codify Welglish and forgive any grammatical errors I make.

Therefore you need to end every sentance with the word "boyo" and make numerous references to sheep...

And you need to learn to use the accepted spelling of the word 'sentence'.

While we are enjoying a degree of joshing, why not learn to pronounce

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?

[Bagwan]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Strange point. Other than a few differences in spelling a few words, what are the major grammatical between English, and American English.

I think in that case someone should codify Thai English and just state that English is too difficult and just make up their own version. How about Australian English, or Spanglish, as official languages.

I am half Welsh, I hereby codify Welglish and forgive any grammatical errors I make.

There is actually substantial proof Welsh was a global foundation to all English even before Roman times, Greek and Latin. Well done to the Welsh. http://treasure1.tri...on.html

Cheers

So they all spoke like Bill and Ben, the Flowerpot men?

[Bagwan]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

Leeches are still used in medicine.

And in many Thai beer bars!

[Bagwan]

[Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

Actually, it could be said that contemporary British English is the true bastardized version of the language. American English, ironically enough, is much closer to the English spoken in the UK and the colonies back in the 17th century.

Here is a little article worth a quick read.

Language is a living thing so is what you are saying is that Brits have moved with the times and the US lags far behind? Afrikaans is primarily 17th century Dutch and look where that has led the 'roineks'.

[Soutpeel]

[Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

Actually, it could be said that contemporary British English is the true bastardized version of the language. American English, ironically enough, is much closer to the English spoken in the UK and the colonies back in the 17th century.

Here is a little article worth a quick read.

Language is a living thing so is what you are saying is that Brits have moved with the times and the US lags far behind? Afrikaans is primarily 17th century Dutch and look where that has led the 'roineks'.

And you need to learn to use the accepted spelling of the word "Rooinek"....

[osiboy]

As long as they don't use Microsoft lazy American English, responsible globally for the dumbing down of the correct English language spelling.

Haha...well, you're of the UK persuasion, I presume? You are so WRONG. American English is a vast improvement over what you chaps speak.

Remember...just because it's OLDER, doesn't make it BETTER. Doctors used to apply leeches to patients...now they've moved on. The English language has evolved. DEAL with it.

(BTW I'm a teacher and in my school the teachers from the U.S. have to teach English in the U.K. form.)

Typical American you take our Language (It is called English, after England) and dumb it down to make it easier for your fellow Americans. Then you claim this is evolution! You couldn't deal with a 'U' in your harbour, a bit to complicated so you dropped it; evolution at work! Personally I think the reason I see so many Americans strolling around Bangkok with 6ft tall wide shouldered...ahem.... ladies, is due to the fact that a fanny in UK English, is not in the same location as it is in the states!

cant buy your 'fags' at 7-11 either !

[jacnl2000]

[Well please enlighten on the significant grammatical differences? Did American English do away with tenses, adverbs or did it just lose an 'I' in aluminum?

Actually, it could be said that contemporary British English is the true bastardized version of the language. American English, ironically enough, is much closer to the English spoken in the UK and the colonies back in the 17th century.

Here is a little article worth a quick read.

Language is a living thing so is what you are saying is that Brits have moved with the times and the US lags far behind? Afrikaans is primarily 17th century Dutch and look where that has led the 'roineks'.

And you need to learn to use the accepted spelling of the word "Rooinek"....

The sound "Roi" is quite acceptable in my mothers ears simply because it points exactly to the place where her husband, my father, was born. Here "Rooi" is considered to be a more civilized pronounciation of "Roi" but the correct Dutch pronounciation would be "Rode" (in your case probably leading to "Roodnek" in stead of "Rooinek"). My mother was born in a village which name starts with "Oi" which is quite difficult to pronounce correctly. Locals say "oh", others use "oo" (more civilized) and some people who do not know what they are doing pronounce it as a German sound ("euer" with the r missing) by adding an e "oie."

Well, it will be quite a tough job to let the English first write down their correct pronounciations of their own words when in practice they do pronounce much more characters than they have actually written down thus far. Are the Thai going to assist them ? :-)

[Soutpeel]

The sound "Roi" is quite acceptable in my mothers ears simply because it points exactly to the place where her husband, my father, was born. Here "Rooi" is considered to be a more civilized pronounciation of "Roi" but the correct Dutch pronounciation would be "Rode" (in your case probably leading to "Roodnek" in stead of "Rooinek"). My mother was born in a village which name starts with "Oi" which is quite difficult to pronounce correctly. Locals say "oh", others use "oo" (more civilized) and some people who do not know what they are doing pronounce it as a German sound ("euer" with the r missing) by adding an e "oie."

Well, it will be quite a tough job to let the English first write down their correct pronounciations of their own words when in practice they do pronounce much more characters than they have actually written down thus far. Are the Thai going to assist them ? :-)

Yes everything your saying maybe correct but the accepted and correct spelling of "roinek" in Afrikaan's (which is what this poster refers to) is "Rooinek", although the root of Afrikaans is Dutch, it is considered an language which stands on its own,

anyways..all academic..."Bagwan" was having a dig at me over my spelling of a word and I was returning the favour thats all...

Edited October 14, 2012 by Soutpeel

[McMagus]

What intrigues me is how they will use loan words but then bastardise the pronunciation till it's almost unrecognisable. Take a simple word like BALL which we know in Thai will become BON.

[McMagus]

oops... need to finish. Now what would happen if we took a Thai word such as Farang (as in Guava) but chose to pronounce it for example as .... Farit, or Faroot etc etc. It is the same reasoning. And don't tell me that Bon is OK because the Thais are only using their own pronunciation rules. The word is Ball period.

[Songhua]

What intrigues me is how they will use loan words but then bastardise the pronunciation till it's almost unrecognisable. Take a simple word like BALL which we know in Thai will become BON.

Unless they learned english to a reasonably high level, a Thai is unable to pronounce words which end with a soft consonant or compound such as ch or th. It's because they don't have such a thing (to END a word) in the Thai language.

Whilst they might commonly write the word with a letter in line with its english spelling (eg using two lor lings ( l's) to spell ball) they will still need to pronounce it as a hard consonant (in this case n).

[Soutpeel]

What intrigues me is how they will use loan words but then bastardise the pronunciation till it's almost unrecognisable. Take a simple word like BALL which we know in Thai will become BON.

Unless they learned english to a reasonably high level, a Thai is unable to pronounce words which end with a soft consonant or compound such as ch or th. It's because they don't have such a thing (to END a word) in the Thai language.

Whilst they might commonly write the word with a letter in line with its english spelling (eg using two lor lings ( l's) to spell ball) they will still need to pronounce it as a hard consonant (in this case n).

Many thanks Professor Higgins...

[Semper]

Imagine having to say 'sa tan ban yerng tam ratree say thuk yang nay khanom bang bing song chin' just to get a club sandwich. The reason it's not called that is because there was no concept of a club sandwich in Thailand until the club sandwich.

.....or until the Farangs showed up in Thailand.

[lucjoker]

And you need to learn to use the accepted spelling of the word "Rooinek"....

Red neck = rode nek =rooje nek=rooi nek

The dutch farmers nek burned in the s afrik. sun .

[lucjoker]

Wrong about leeches...wrong about languages perhaps....

the thai people try to speek "english" ,they make mistakes but they try,they at least speak more than 1 language !

i'm 9 years here ,and i dont know 1 englishman ,welsh,american ,canadian...who can speak english correctly !

They all speak a tongue(dialect)but thats all they can.Put on the same table they dont understand what the other says !

So let comments on languages be made by people who speak at least 3 languages ( like a belgium,dutch,.... 12 year old ) .

If you can speak only english you look very dumb in any spanish,french,german,chinese,portugees,italian....... speaking area , and

you are just lucky that the other "educated"people can help you and understand your weakness by speaking some english.

only comment if you are educated please.

What rubbish! Brits, Yanks, Canucks, Kiwis and Ozzies CAN understand each other. Any complications that may arise are often due to accents, or sometimes a few localised pieces of terminilogy, both of which you will find due regional differences within any of those countries.

Whilst I would agree that the UK is sadly lacking in teaching languages (I have been a teacher for almost 40 years) I do not think you have much room to criticise from your perveived ivory tower, as your post is littered with errors.

As for your "only comment if you are educated please" what an arrogant thing to say. Your whole post reeks of ignorance and arrogance and judging by your accuations, you cannot be circulating in "educated" circles.

I suggest you remember the following quote, attributed to various people, so origin is indeterminate.... "It is sometimes better to say nothing and be thought a fool, rather than open one's mouth and remove all doubt"

Read my message again , a thai bar lady is stronger in language than you ,because she can speak a second language ! And you dont !

And offcourse i make mistakes in writing my 4th language ,see how many mistakes you make in your 2nd ,3rd or 4th language.

Ps 40 years a lanuage teacher ,and you manage to speak how manny languages ?Lol !