Thailand's War With The Uk

[chiangmaikelly]

If the Thai motor factory work force were paid similar wages to the west, see what happens.

Remove the daft import tax on car imports to LOS, see what happens.

Ooooop's. Doe's Thailand actually design and build their own mark. Hmmmmmm, no, put together others cos a very poorly paid workforce.

Mr. Fumihiko Ike, President & Chief Executive Officer, Asian Honda Motor Co., Ltd. said, “Based on our strong, long-term commitment to the development of Thailand’s automotive industry, Honda has established a new regional automobile R&D center here in Thailand. The center’s function covers broad research and development activities including product planning, product design research and testing. The new automobile R&D facility will enable Honda to respond even more quickly to changing customer needs in the Asia-Oceania region.”

And the salaries paid to these folk are Whoooooooooopy in LOS.

OK I'll bite. Because they are paid less money in Thailand than the UK they are worth less?

[submaniac]

Not trying to turn this into a "Brit bash"...but, man you guys made some really really crappy awful cars.

British Leyland

The XJS and XJ6 of 1970's and 80's.

MG's, Jensen's, ...the Range Rover's of the 80's and 90's.

Austin princess, Austin Allegro

Morris Marina

lest not forget Lucas electrical systems.

AKA The Prince of Darkness.

The inventor of the first intermittent wiper.

The inventor of the first intermittent headlight.

Q: Why do Brits drink warm beer? A:Lucas refrigerators.

The Top Ten Worst British Cars as Chosen by the British themselves:

http://digitaljournal.com/article/258458

http://top10.com/top-10-worst-british-cars

[chiangmaikelly]

Lets see how happy he is about Thai Engineering prowess if they ever decide to build a Nuclear Facility near his house?

It was not my intention to slam anyone. I wanted to say something about the Thai economy which is going great guns and led by the auto industry among others. Auto production left Detroit and the city is a ghost town with crime rampant and the cops even warning people not to come. Making cars is a good industry because of all the other industries it effects and around ever auto plant are hundreds of other smaller factories that support the big one. The UK and US industries could learn something from the Thai auto industry. They are making it work. Unions and management don't hate one another. They work together. I don't know much about the UK auto unions so maybe someone else could address that but in the US they sunk the auto industry IMO.

[transam]

If the Thai motor factory work force were paid similar wages to the west, see what happens.

Remove the daft import tax on car imports to LOS, see what happens.

Ooooop's. Doe's Thailand actually design and build their own mark. Hmmmmmm, no, put together others cos a very poorly paid workforce.

Mr. Fumihiko Ike, President & Chief Executive Officer, Asian Honda Motor Co., Ltd. said, “Based on our strong, long-term commitment to the development of Thailand’s automotive industry, Honda has established a new regional automobile R&D center here in Thailand. The center’s function covers broad research and development activities including product planning, product design research and testing. The new automobile R&D facility will enable Honda to respond even more quickly to changing customer needs in the Asia-Oceania region.”

And the salaries paid to these folk are Whoooooooooopy in LOS.

OK I'll bite. Because they are paid less money in Thailand than the UK they are worth less?

You miss my point, pure economics, how much do the thousands of Thai assembly workers earn a week,? how much does a UK assembly worker earn, probably 10 fold.

[transam]

Not trying to turn this into a "Brit bash"...but, man you guys made some really really crappy awful cars.

British Leyland

The XJS and XJ6 of 1970's and 80's.

MG's, Jensen's, ...the Range Rover's of the 80's and 90's.

Austin princess, Austin Allegro

Morris Marina

lest not forget Lucas electrical systems.

AKA The Prince of Darkness.

The inventor of the first intermittent wiper.

The inventor of the first intermittent headlight.

Q: Why do Brits drink warm beer? A:Lucas refrigerators.

The Top Ten Worst British Cars as Chosen by the British themselves:

http://digitaljourna.../article/258458

http://top10.com/top...st-british-cars

I think you are totally wrong on all points. In fact l have owned, driven or worked on all you rides mentioned. You every worked on a Datsun of the era ?

[GuestHouse]

GH said, "Thailand has no luxury car maker,"

Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant Co., Ltd. Began To Assemble Chassis For Commercial Vehicles At Plant No. 1. Subsequently, It Expanded Its Operation To Cover The Assembly Of Mercedes-benz Passenger Cars In C-class, E-class And S-class Models At Plant No. 2 In Samut Prakan Province. Considered By Leading Car Manufacturers As One Of The Most Modern Factories In Southeast Asia, The Plant Has A Capacity Of 12,000 Cars Per Year. Thonburi Group Was Appointed By Daimlerchrysler (thailand) Ltd. To Be The Authorized Assembler Of Mercedes-benz�s C-class, E-class, S-class And A-class Models, In Accordance With Daimlerchrysler Ag�s Stringent Quality Standards.

CMK, please forgive my earlier responses, I was labouring under the misunderstanding that you actually might know what you are talking about. It seems from what you have said in your own posts you do not.

To help you out, a car assembler is not a car maker.

But I do not blame you for this misunderstanding, you come from a part of the world were an "Engineer' is someone who drives a locomotive.

You are almost certainly blissfully unaware that the Engineering and Design Content put into these foreign brands of motorcar assembled in Thailand comes from overseas.

You are probably blissfully unaware that the technology within these vehicles includes not only the engineering of the vehicle components, the materials, the specification and design of the mechanical and electrical components, but also the aesthetic design and importantly the design of the production systems, the programming of the robotics the technology of the logistical supply systems - IMPORTED FROM THE CAR MAKERS.

Now don't go waisting your time on Google or Wikipedia, they are not going to help you out with this one.

You need something more than a bit of BoI sales bumf to cover up your clear lack of any knowledge of what you are talking about.

Edited October 14, 2012 by GuestHouse

[impulse]

Let's try this. Name one Thai automobile powerhouse brand.

Once every four years a new model automobile is designed. Then that automobile is produced for the next four years. Of the engineering work that goes into producing an auto the great majority of it is in production.

I don't know the exact ratio but I would think about 1 design engineer to every 10 production engineers.

It takes a lot of skill to run a factory.

Then there is parts. Parts have to be designed and produced locally and it is a multi billion dollar industry.

You are wrong when you say it doesn't take a lot of skill to insert tab into slot b you are wrong. If you had ever worked in the automotive industry you would realize this.

What percent of the profit of Ford of Thailand goes back to Ford in America? About 10% (maybe a little more or less but you get the idea). 90% stays in Thailand.

You seem to have missed the question.

Thailand is a manufacturing base for international auto companies. Big whoop. The bottom line is that the technology, purse strings and distribution decisions are controlled elsewhere- not in Thailand.

And if Ford stockholders found out that 90% of their profits are being held back in another country, I'm sure they'd have something to say about it. Yes, Ford does spend money in Thailand, they support the Thai economy,and some of their top line profits are reinvested into Thailand. And I'm sure some tiny percentage of Ford stock is owned by Thai people. But Ford in Thailand and all their employees are 100% absolutely at the mercy of decisions made in other countries.

Yes, it is tough to run a factory. But that's all they seem to do here. Contrast that to China that has taken the technology they imported and now has hundreds of Chinese auto brands. A lot of those will fall by the wayside, but some are destined to (and already becoming) international powerhouses, with brand penetration into dozens if not hundreds of countries. And they're controlled from China and profits go back to China.... Nobody in Detroit or Bavaria can take that away from them. (Did I get Bavaria right?)

Thailand has how many? That's right. ZERO. Guest House got it right.

The day I see a Thai auto company opening a manufacturing facility and selling cars under their own brand name in any developed country, I'll post back and apologize. Don't hold your breath.

Edited October 14, 2012 by impulse

[chiangmaikelly]

GH said, "Thailand has no luxury car maker,"

Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant Co., Ltd. Began To Assemble Chassis For Commercial Vehicles At Plant No. 1. Subsequently, It Expanded Its Operation To Cover The Assembly Of Mercedes-benz Passenger Cars In C-class, E-class And S-class Models At Plant No. 2 In Samut Prakan Province. Considered By Leading Car Manufacturers As One Of The Most Modern Factories In Southeast Asia, The Plant Has A Capacity Of 12,000 Cars Per Year. Thonburi Group Was Appointed By Daimlerchrysler (thailand) Ltd. To Be The Authorized Assembler Of Mercedes-benz�s C-class, E-class, S-class And A-class Models, In Accordance With Daimlerchrysler Ag�s Stringent Quality Standards.

CMK, please forgive my earlier responses, I was labouring under the misunderstanding that you actually might know what you are talking about. It seems from what you have said in your own posts you do not.

To help you out, a car assembler is not a car maker.

But I do not blame you for this misunderstanding, you come from a part of the world were an "Engineer' is someone who drives a locomotive.

You are almost certainly blissfully unaware that the Engineering and Design Content put into these foreign brands of motorcar assembled in Thailand comes from overseas.

You are probably blissfully unaware that the technology within these vehicles includes not only the engineering of the vehicle components, the materials, the specification and design of the mechanical and electrical components, but also the aesthetic design and importantly the design of the production systems, the programming of the robotics the technology of the logistical supply systems - IMPORTED FROM THE CAR MAKERS.

Now don't go waisting your time on Google or Wikipedia, they are not going to help you out with this one.

You need something more than a bit of BoI sales bumf to cover up your clear lack of any knowledge of what you are talking about.

Ahh my young fellow before you were a gleam in your fathers eye I was working for Ford and having a beer with Henry the tooth at the Harbor Island Yacht club in Nassau. I have forgotten more about the auto industry than you have ever read let alone known. I am working outside today with the labor from Burma and have to watch them a bit because they don't speak much Thai. Can't find Thais to work around here on a Sunday. Back to you later

[GuestHouse]

Ahh my young fellow before you were a gleam in your fathers eye I was working for Ford and having a beer with Henry the tooth at the Harbor Island Yacht club in Nassau. I have forgotten more about the auto industry than you have ever read let alone known.

Well there's little evidence of any knowledge of the Automotive Industry in anything you have said and absolutely no indication of any understanding of why a Car Assembler is not a Car Maker.

But don't worry, I'm quite certain British Pharmaceutical researchers are working on a solution to that forgetting stuff thing.

[chiangmaikelly]

Let's try this. Name one Thai automobile powerhouse brand.

Once every four years a new model automobile is designed. Then that automobile is produced for the next four years. Of the engineering work that goes into producing an auto the great majority of it is in production.

I don't know the exact ratio but I would think about 1 design engineer to every 10 production engineers.

It takes a lot of skill to run a factory.

Then there is parts. Parts have to be designed and produced locally and it is a multi billion dollar industry.

You are wrong when you say it doesn't take a lot of skill to insert tab into slot b you are wrong. If you had ever worked in the automotive industry you would realize this.

What percent of the profit of Ford of Thailand goes back to Ford in America? About 10% (maybe a little more or less but you get the idea). 90% stays in Thailand.

You seem to have missed the question.

Thailand is a manufacturing base for international auto companies. Big whoop. The bottom line is that the technology, purse strings and distribution decisions are controlled elsewhere- not in Thailand.

And if Ford stockholders found out that 90% of their profits are being held back in another country, I'm sure they'd have something to say about it. Yes, Ford does spend money in Thailand, they support the Thai economy,and some of their top line profits are reinvested into Thailand. And I'm sure some tiny percentage of Ford stock is owned by Thai people. But Ford in Thailand and all their employees are 100% absolutely at the mercy of decisions made in other countries.

Yes, it is tough to run a factory. But that's all they seem to do here. Contrast that to China that has taken the technology they imported and now has hundreds of Chinese auto brands. A lot of those will fall by the wayside, but some are destined to (and already becoming) international powerhouses, with brand penetration into dozens if not hundreds of countries. And they're controlled from China and profits go back to China.... Nobody in Detroit or Bavaria can take that away from them. (Did I get Bavaria right?)

Thailand has how many? That's right. ZERO. Guest House got it right.

The day I see a Thai auto company opening a manufacturing facility and selling cars under their own brand name in any developed country, I'll post back and apologize. Don't hold your breath.

I should have said sales. 10% of the sales price of the auto is profit. Good years more bad years less. Sorry about that.

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[GuestHouse]

I should have said sales. 10% of the sales price of the auto is profit. Good years more bad years less. Sorry about that.

You've got your eye on the wrong number - Yes 10% for a mass produced brand might be correct, it will almost certainly not be correct for the top end specialist makers.

And you miss the point that 10% is to the car maker - the all important economic multiplier is not there if the only participation is production ( by the very nature of the business continually being squeezed to reduce costs, reduce manpower, reduce content).

"Car Makers" meanwhile employ all the other services, engineering, design, technology, research, marketing - The money and the technology/skill merry go round.

Absent in low cost Car Assemblers.

But of course as a drinking buddy with Mr Ford you once knew all that.

Edited October 14, 2012 by GuestHouse

[chiangmaikelly]

GH said, "Thailand has no luxury car maker,"

Thonburi Automotive Assembly Plant Co., Ltd. Began To Assemble Chassis For Commercial Vehicles At Plant No. 1. Subsequently, It Expanded Its Operation To Cover The Assembly Of Mercedes-benz Passenger Cars In C-class, E-class And S-class Models At Plant No. 2 In Samut Prakan Province. Considered By Leading Car Manufacturers As One Of The Most Modern Factories In Southeast Asia, The Plant Has A Capacity Of 12,000 Cars Per Year. Thonburi Group Was Appointed By Daimlerchrysler (thailand) Ltd. To Be The Authorized Assembler Of Mercedes-benz�s C-class, E-class, S-class And A-class Models, In Accordance With Daimlerchrysler Ag�s Stringent Quality Standards.

CMK, please forgive my earlier responses, I was labouring under the misunderstanding that you actually might know what you are talking about. It seems from what you have said in your own posts you do not.

To help you out, a car assembler is not a car maker.

But I do not blame you for this misunderstanding, you come from a part of the world were an "Engineer' is someone who drives a locomotive.

You are almost certainly blissfully unaware that the Engineering and Design Content put into these foreign brands of motorcar assembled in Thailand comes from overseas.

You are probably blissfully unaware that the technology within these vehicles includes not only the engineering of the vehicle components, the materials, the specification and design of the mechanical and electrical components, but also the aesthetic design and importantly the design of the production systems, the programming of the robotics the technology of the logistical supply systems - IMPORTED FROM THE CAR MAKERS.

Now don't go waisting your time on Google or Wikipedia, they are not going to help you out with this one.

You need something more than a bit of BoI sales bumf to cover up your clear lack of any knowledge of what you are talking about.

You don't read. This is the second time I have explained this. There are design engineers and production engineers. The ratio is about 1 to 10 or more. Maybe now with all the computer advances 1 to 100. That is 1 design engineer to 100 production engineer. Ford bought Jaguar cleaned it up and then resold it to an Indian company. It is just a matter of bucks. Design engineers are a dime a dozen (expression) and can be purchased anywhere. Design engineers are kind of like pirates and normally work for more than one company. Talent goes to the highest bidder. Did you ever wonder why new models come out for different companies in different years? It is because the designers change companies. What is difficult is building and maintaining and staffing a manufacturing facility. What is difficult about making a car is done at the factory level, the assembly plant, engine plant and stamping plant.

It makes little difference to the economy of Thailand or the UK for that matter who owns the brand. The important economic effect is where the factory is based.

Edit to add. If you want to know the importance of design. What is the percent of of the total price of a light truck that the designers cost?

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[endure]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

The last time I was in the local supermarket. They build all the Toyotas for Europe 2 miles from my front door.

[teatree]

I was actually very surprised the UK was so close to the Thai production rate. With the vast difference in wages I would have thought that Thailand would be further ahead.

If the OP wants a knob waving contest perhaps he can answer how many Thai companies manufacture cars. All of the manufactuing in Thailand is from foreign companies.

[Orac]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

The last time I was in the local supermarket. They build all the Toyotas for Europe 2 miles from my front door.

And a lot of the aircraft engines I assume.

[endure]

Don't feed The Troll

Sorry, but I do not understand your post?

Win what?

Since when did the U.K. manufacture anything anyway? Like to U.S. they have completely outsourced the majority of all industrial production.

When was the last time you met a factory worker in the U.K.?

The last time I was in the local supermarket. They build all the Toyotas for Europe 2 miles from my front door.

And a lot of the aircraft engines I assume.

And the reactors for the UK nuclear submarine fleet and gas turbines for the Royal Navy and other marine uses. We also build trains that are exported worldwide.

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

[DP25]

If the OP wants a knob waving contest perhaps he can answer how many Thai companies manufacture cars. All of the manufactuing in Thailand is from foreign companies.

All the manufacturing in the UK is from foreign companies too now I believe isn't it?

Thailand does have one small fully domestic owned company that manufactures cars. Thai Rung manufactures a small number of cars, both military and civilian under their own brand.

There is another company, Chaiseri, that manufactures military vehicles.

Additionally, unlike many other countries, virtually the entire car is manufactured in Thailand and it is not just assembled like in most other countries. And the majority of the parts companies that supply the foreign brands in Thailand are completely Thai owned or majority Thai owned.

Regardless, the auto industry in Thailand is booming. Production is estimated at 2.2 million units this year. Sales are estimated at 1.3 million. It won't be long now before Thailand is not only manufacturing more units per year than many countries in Europe, but selling more as well. They already sell more than medium sized EU countries like Spain, they are getting close to countries like the UK now too and in another decade will probably surpass them.

[chiangmaikelly]

I was actually very surprised the UK was so close to the Thai production rate. With the vast difference in wages I would have thought that Thailand would be further ahead.

If the OP wants a knob waving contest perhaps he can answer how many Thai companies manufacture cars. All of the manufactuing in Thailand is from foreign companies.

If you read the thread this was explained. Sorry I don't think it is necessary to repeat. Perhaps you could tell us who owns Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston, MG, Bently and Vaxhall?

[chiangmaikelly]

If the OP wants a knob waving contest perhaps he can answer how many Thai companies manufacture cars. All of the manufactuing in Thailand is from foreign companies.

All the manufacturing in the UK is from foreign companies too now I believe isn't it?

Thailand does have one small fully domestic owned company that manufactures cars. Thai Rung manufactures a small number of cars, both military and civilian under their own brand.

There is another company, Chaiseri, that manufactures military vehicles.

Additionally, unlike many other countries, virtually the entire car is manufactured in Thailand and it is not just assembled like in most other countries. And the majority of the parts companies that supply the foreign brands in Thailand are completely Thai owned or majority Thai owned.

Regardless, the auto industry in Thailand is booming. Production is estimated at 2.2 million units this year. Sales are estimated at 1.3 million. It won't be long now before Thailand is not only manufacturing more units per year than many countries in Europe, but selling more as well. They already sell more than medium sized EU countries like Spain, they are getting close to countries like the UK now too and in another decade will probably surpass them.

I think they also make engines for Isuzu.

[harrry]

So this is a UK bash then ?

I prefer to call it a truth searching thread about Thailand and the UK competing for 11th 12th and 13th place internationally for auto sales.

OP you didn't click on the link did you ? ( http://www.dailymail...tal-Europe.html) which clearly shows how well the UK is doing. You're comparing oranges to kumquats.

You started this thread based on manufacturing & now it is sales ?

As both jaguar and Landrover are owned by Indian TATA it is only natural it is made in the UK to help provide expatriat indians in the UK with work.

[chiangmaikelly]

Mr. Fumihiko Ike, President & Chief Executive Officer, Asian Honda Motor Co., Ltd. said, “Based on our strong, long-term commitment to the development of Thailand’s automotive industry, Honda has established a new regional automobile R&D center here in Thailand. The center’s function covers broad research and development activities including product planning, product design research and testing. The new automobile R&D facility will enable Honda to respond even more quickly to changing customer needs in the Asia-Oceania region.”

And the salaries paid to these folk are Whoooooooooopy in LOS.

OK I'll bite. Because they are paid less money in Thailand than the UK they are worth less?

You miss my point, pure economics, how much do the thousands of Thai assembly workers earn a week,? how much does a UK assembly worker earn, probably 10 fold.

You make a good point. That's what the UAW told the car companies in Detroit. The car companies told the unions that they would have to take a cut in pay and cut the pension benefits of the employees or the auto companies would go broke.

After they went broke and Detroit went broke and the US government is going broke trying to bail them out maybe there is still time left for the UK to look at the wages in Thailand and learn something. Or not.

[GuestHouse]

You make a good point. That's what the UAW told the car companies in Detroit. The car companies told the unions that they would have to take a cut in pay and cut the pension benefits of the employees or the auto companies would go broke.

After they went broke and Detroit went broke and the US government is going broke trying to bail them out maybe there is still time left for the UK to look at the wages in Thailand and learn something. Or not.

Ah - So that's what its all about.

The US car industry collapsed and now you are praying the UK car industry goes the same way, because jobs moving to low cost manufacturing centres will ease the pain of having to ask what happened.

I see you've trotted out the high cost of unionised labour and their unionised pension benefits - you conveniently miss out the ultra high cost of medical insurance to US manufactures and oddly miss out the painful truth that US car manufactures were producing a crap product.

As for the US Government going broke trying to bail them (US Car Makers) out..... how can I explain this in terms you'll understand.

Let's try this - The UK Government did not have to bail out UK car manufactures - They sold their share of the business decades ago and left the manufactures to succeed or fail on their own merits - Great designs, great engineering, production and quality as good if not better than anyone AND CARS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BUY have ensured that British Car Makers have thrived.

The world economy is in recession but British Luxury cars are selling like hotcakes - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/7905351/Luxury-cars-drive-jump-in-UK-production.html

Don't get me wrong, this is no time for complacency - British Car Makers need to be guard against that same rot that destroyed the US car makers - No not unionised labour, not high cost of production - simply producing cars that nobody wanted to buy.

In Europe we call them Yank Tanks, a byword for crap styled gas guzzlers.

[endure]

You make a good point. That's what the UAW told the car companies in Detroit. The car companies told the unions that they would have to take a cut in pay and cut the pension benefits of the employees or the auto companies would go broke.

After they went broke and Detroit went broke and the US government is going broke trying to bail them out maybe there is still time left for the UK to look at the wages in Thailand and learn something. Or not.

When Toyota set up their manufacturing plants in the UK and advertised for staff the first qualification that every applicant needed was that the HADN'T previously worked in the car industry. Toyota refused to employ anyone who was in a union. Instead they treat their employees very well without union interference and a job at Toyota is one that's highly prized and fought over.

[chiangmaikelly]

You make a good point. That's what the UAW told the car companies in Detroit. The car companies told the unions that they would have to take a cut in pay and cut the pension benefits of the employees or the auto companies would go broke.

After they went broke and Detroit went broke and the US government is going broke trying to bail them out maybe there is still time left for the UK to look at the wages in Thailand and learn something. Or not.

Ah - So that's what its all about.

The US car industry collapsed and now you are praying the UK car industry goes the same way, because jobs moving to low cost manufacturing centres will ease the pain of having to ask what happened.

I see you've trotted out the high cost of unionised labour and their unionised pension benefits - you conveniently miss out the ultra high cost of medical insurance to US manufactures and oddly miss out the painful truth that US car manufactures were producing a crap product.

As for the US Government going broke trying to bail them (US Car Makers) out..... how can I explain this in terms you'll understand.

Let's try this - The UK Government did not have to bail out UK car manufactures - They sold their share of the business decades ago and left the manufactures to succeed or fail on their own merits - Great designs, great engineering, production and quality as good if not better than anyone AND CARS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BUY have ensured that British Car Makers have thrived.

The world economy is in recession but British Luxury cars are selling like hotcakes - http://www.telegraph...production.html

Don't get me wrong, this is no time for complacency - British Car Makers need to be guard against that same rot that destroyed the US car makers - No not unionised labour, not high cost of production - simply producing cars that nobody wanted to buy.

In Europe we call them Yank Tanks, a byword for crap styled gas guzzlers.

I think Indians or Germans are making the decisions for British luxury car makers no? So I don't get what that has to do with the British. Unless you are saying that the Indians make better decisions. I guess since they own the companies that's a given.

However I wasn't talking about one particular segment of the market. Although we could look at light truck sales vs luxury British car companies owed by Indian persons in India; car sales. Although I don't know what that would tell you.

The total sales and the total vehicles produced in Thailand that had no auto industry before 1961 will outstrip autos produced in the UK this year and forever was my point. Do you disagree with that? Why is that? Why do you think Thailand went from 0 to 3 million vehicles in 40 years and the UK did the reverse? Do you think it had anything to do with labor costs? How did Thailand get auto companies to invest billions of dollars in new factories and employ thousands and thousands of Thai people?

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[JurgenG]

You make a good point. That's what the UAW told the car companies in Detroit. The car companies told the unions that they would have to take a cut in pay and cut the pension benefits of the employees or the auto companies would go broke.

After they went broke and Detroit went broke and the US government is going broke trying to bail them out maybe there is still time left for the UK to look at the wages in Thailand and learn something. Or not.

Ah - So that's what its all about.

The US car industry collapsed and now you are praying the UK car industry goes the same way, because jobs moving to low cost manufacturing centres will ease the pain of having to ask what happened.

I see you've trotted out the high cost of unionised labour and their unionised pension benefits - you conveniently miss out the ultra high cost of medical insurance to US manufactures and oddly miss out the painful truth that US car manufactures were producing a crap product.

As for the US Government going broke trying to bail them (US Car Makers) out..... how can I explain this in terms you'll understand.

Let's try this - The UK Government did not have to bail out UK car manufactures - They sold their share of the business decades ago and left the manufactures to succeed or fail on their own merits - Great designs, great engineering, production and quality as good if not better than anyone AND CARS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BUY have ensured that British Car Makers have thrived.

The world economy is in recession but British Luxury cars are selling like hotcakes - http://www.telegraph...production.html

Don't get me wrong, this is no time for complacency - British Car Makers need to be guard against that same rot that destroyed the US car makers - No not unionised labour, not high cost of production - simply producing cars that nobody wanted to buy.

In Europe we call them Yank Tanks, a byword for crap styled gas guzzlers.

I think Indians or Germans are making the decisions for British luxury car makers no? So I don't get what that has to do with the British. Unless you are saying that the Indians make better decisions. I guess since they own the companies that's a given.

However I wasn't talking about one particular segment of the market. Although we could look at light truck sales vs luxury British car companies owed by Indian persons in India; car sales. Although I don't know what that would tell you.

The total sales and the total vehicles produced in Thailand that had no auto industry before 1961 will outstrip autos produced in the UK this year and forever was my point. Do you disagree with that? Why is that? Why do you think Thailand went from 0 to 3 million vehicles in 40 years and the UK did the reverse? Do you think it had anything to do with labor costs? How did Thailand get auto companies to invest billions of dollars in new factories and employ thousands and thousands of Thai people?

[chiangmaikelly]

I was trying to make a point. I think I did. Thailand has a large and vibrant auto industry. As large as the auto manufacturing industry in the UK and about the 11th or 12 largest in the world.

So when all of the economic experts on Thailand begin to tell everyone how bad the Thai economy is you can point to this thread and say, "balderdash."

The reason the Thai baht has risen and the UK and US currencies have gone down is in part because of the health and future of the Thai auto industry among many other things.

[GuestHouse]

The total sales and the total vehicles produced in Thailand that had no auto industry before 1961 will outstrip autos produced in the UK this year and forever was my point. Do you disagree with that? Why is that? Why do you think Thailand went from 0 to 3 million vehicles in 40 years and the UK did the reverse? Do you think it had anything to do with labor costs? How did Thailand get auto companies to invest billions of dollars in new factories and employ thousands and thousands of Thai people?

No I do not disagree with that - We disagree what the reasons are: You're claiming this is the rise of Thai Engineering and Production Technology and superior workforce (Though I note your argument develops as we have moved from your first post to include costs).

You totally ignore that the Thai Car Assembly Industry (not Car Maker Industry) is totally imported, the designs and all the technology come from overseas - The local content is cheap labour.

You totally ignore that the Thai Auto Assembly Industry is protected by some of the highest import tariffs anywhere in the world.

And you totally ignore the fact that the Thai Auto Assembly industry is focussed on the low cost, mass produced budget market - The exact market that everyone is after, including India and China.

Who owns UK Car Manufacture - well actually the UK does't care who owns the industry, so long as it is not owned (or bailed ) out by the government and provided it produces the cars people want to buy (which it does across a wide spectrum of the market) - Cars people want to buy, sales, jobs, taxes paid.

Thailand is advancing as a Car Assembler - The engineering, design (all the intellectual property rights) reside abroad.

You've misdiagnosed the causes of the US Auto Industry and you totally misunderstand the Auto Industry in the UK.

[GuestHouse]

You are trying too hard to make a point.

It is only a matter of time before superior Thai engineering and production techniques and worker quality boost Thailand to a place permanently above the UK.

Worker quality is a subjective measure that I doubt you and I will ever agree on - But you should be able to give us solid measurable examples of Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques.

Examples please..... ????

[chiangmaikelly]

The total sales and the total vehicles produced in Thailand that had no auto industry before 1961 will outstrip autos produced in the UK this year and forever was my point. Do you disagree with that? Why is that? Why do you think Thailand went from 0 to 3 million vehicles in 40 years and the UK did the reverse? Do you think it had anything to do with labor costs? How did Thailand get auto companies to invest billions of dollars in new factories and employ thousands and thousands of Thai people?

No I do not disagree with that - We disagree what the reasons are: You're claiming this is the rise of Thai Engineering and Production Technology and superior workforce (Though I note your argument develops as we have moved from your first post to include costs).

You totally ignore that the Thai Car Assembly Industry (not Car Maker Industry) is totally imported, the designs and all the technology come from overseas - The local content is cheap labour.

You totally ignore that the Thai Auto Assembly Industry is protected by some of the highest import tariffs anywhere in the world.

And you totally ignore the fact that the Thai Auto Assembly industry is focussed on the low cost, mass produced budget market - The exact market that everyone is after, including India and China.

Who owns UK Car Manufacture - well actually the UK does't care who owns the industry, so long as it is not owned (or bailed ) out by the government and provided it produces the cars people want to buy (which it does across a wide spectrum of the market) - Cars people want to buy, sales, jobs, taxes paid.

Thailand is advancing as a Car Assembler - The engineering, design (all the intellectual property rights) reside abroad.

You've misdiagnosed the causes of the US Auto Industry and you totally misunderstand the Auto Industry in the UK.

Guest house errors.

1. Factory management, engineering, financial and all the other areas of management are Thai and not cheap.
   
2. Automotive R&D is a very small part of the total cost of a vehicle.
   
3. You are ignoring both Mercedes and BMW make cars in Thailand.(Apart from the advanced facilities for assembly process and testing equipments, the BMW Plant Rayong emphasizes on every detail in every single process step to ensure top quality for its customers, and, hence, highest satisfaction. BMW customers can therefore rest assured that their cars are made with highest quality craftsmanship. If you have any queries, please contact:
   Sethipong Anutarasoti
   Director Corporate Communications
   BMW Group Thailand )
   
4. Import tariffs have nothing to vehicles sold outside of Thailand.
   

The causes of the demise of the US auto industry are beyond the scope of this thread as is the demise of British ownership of the British auto industry.

Edited October 14, 2012 by chiangmaikelly