Britain, Scotland Sign Deal For Independence Referendum

phuketjock · December 18, 2012

theblether,

You started out by saying that Scotland was part of the EU and Scottish nationals were EU citizens and could not have that taken away from them.

You have been proved wrong on that point, even by the judge you have quoted, and are now saying that Scotland's position in the EU post independence is subject to negotiation!

Something I and others have been saying and the UK government knew all along.

Yet you insist that you were right all along, even though your position has swung a full 180 degrees. Amazing; are you sure you're not a politician?

BTW, I made no 'great play' of the SNP not asking for advice on this matter; maybe you should read the whole thread again. I may have mentioned the tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money they spent looking for advice, and the lies they then told the Scottish people, but that was it.

phuketjock,

If Scotland chooses to leave the UK they wont have been stripped of their British nationality; they will have voluntarily given it up and become Scottish citizens instead; as the Irish became Irish citizens when what is now the RoI left the UK.

Why should Scots retain British citizenship if Scotland leaves the UK?

I asked theblether this question; he's ignored it, as is usual with questions he doesn't like.

Can you answer it?

First history now geography.

We are all British and European by geography,and Scots now are Scottish citizens as the English are

English citizens, I have never felt British by nationality so I will not be missing anything, but I have no

objection if the English living in Scotland want to become Scottish post independance, they will be very

welcome. As far as me wanting to remain British you can shove your British nationality and your

citizenship firmly where the sun don't shine thank you.!!!!!

But I will still be British and european by geography!!!!

Sorry to disappoint now that we have moved on from history to geography lessons, but geographically you are not European at all.

The "continent" of Europe is a political fallacy dreamt up in order that there could be a separate continent at the western end of Eurasia. To prove the point, where is the eastern boundary of this alleged "continent" of Europe? We live on the single, continuous continental plate of Eurasia that stretches from Vladivostock to the eastern half of Iceland. So that would actually make you Scottish by nationality but also Asian, or if you are that fussed, Western Asian! So that makes us (all so called Europeans that is) cousins of the Thais; how appropriate!

The last time i was at school folium, as far as I can remember, tectonic plate boundarys were never

used to locate the geographical locations of countries, or for that matter continents. Asia starts in

Kazahkstan on a bridge over the ural river, as SC noted, in a city called Atyrau, when I worked there

I used to sleep everynight in Europe and go to work every morning in Asia. So we are in fact Europeans

whether you like it or not.

It would appear your geographical knowledge is on a par with your historical,, all a bit Googlish!!!

Edited December 18, 2012 by phuketjock

StreetCowboy · December 18, 2012

theblether,

You started out by saying that Scotland was part of the EU and Scottish nationals were EU citizens and could not have that taken away from them.

You have been proved wrong on that point, even by the judge you have quoted, and are now saying that Scotland's position in the EU post independence is subject to negotiation!

Something I and others have been saying and the UK government knew all along.

Yet you insist that you were right all along, even though your position has swung a full 180 degrees. Amazing; are you sure you're not a politician?

BTW, I made no 'great play' of the SNP not asking for advice on this matter; maybe you should read the whole thread again. I may have mentioned the tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money they spent looking for advice, and the lies they then told the Scottish people, but that was it.

phuketjock,

If Scotland chooses to leave the UK they wont have been stripped of their British nationality; they will have voluntarily given it up and become Scottish citizens instead; as the Irish became Irish citizens when what is now the RoI left the UK.

Why should Scots retain British citizenship if Scotland leaves the UK?

I asked theblether this question; he's ignored it, as is usual with questions he doesn't like.

Can you answer it?

First history now geography.

We are all British and European by geography,and Scots now are Scottish citizens as the English are

English citizens, I have never felt British by nationality so I will not be missing anything, but I have no

objection if the English living in Scotland want to become Scottish post independance, they will be very

welcome. As far as me wanting to remain British you can shove your British nationality and your

citizenship firmly where the sun don't shine thank you.!!!!!

But I will still be British and european by geography!!!!

Sorry to disappoint now that we have moved on from history to geography lessons, but geographically you are not European at all.

The "continent" of Europe is a political fallacy dreamt up in order that there could be a separate continent at the western end of Eurasia. To prove the point, where is the eastern boundary of this alleged "continent" of Europe? We live on the single, continuous continental plate of Eurasia that stretches from Vladivostock to the eastern half of Iceland. So that would actually make you Scottish by nationality but also Asian, or if you are that fussed, Western Asian! So that makes us (all so called Europeans that is) cousins of the Thais; how appropriate!

The last time i was at school folium, as far as I can remember, tectonic plate boundarys were never

used to locate the geographical locations of countries, or for that matter continents. Asia starts in

Kazahkstan on a bridge over the ural river, as SC noted, when I worked there I used to sleep every

night in Europe and go to work every morning in Asia. So we are in fact Europeans whether you like

it or not.

Some people here seem to struggle with natural geographical grouplings

SC

phuketjock · December 18, 2012

Some good news for those youngsters that will be voting on the referendum.

Source:-

www.scotland.gov.uk/news

2,000 extra university places

18/12/2012

An extra 2000 university places for young people, half of which will be for those progressing from college to university as part of ongoing efforts to widen access, will be funded by the Scottish Funding Council.

Universities will receive just over £10 million in 2013-14 to pay for additional places, including over 700 on widening access schemes, more than 1,000 for young people moving on from college to university and around 300 on the Skills for Growth scheme.

Education Secretary Michael Russell said:

“Scotland already has a record number of people at university. We have abolished tuition fees to ensure education remained free and now also offer the best financial support package for students in the whole of the UK. To further widen access, we will now help more than 2,000 extra young people go to university.

“This will mean more young Scots, including those from our most deprived communities, will reap the benefits of a university education. This funding will help more college students see their learning count towards a university degree and ensure young people from deprived areas who show potential get the support and education they need to realise that potential.

“Even within our limited fiscal powers, our actions to ensure young people access education based on ability to learn rather than the ability to pay underlines our commitment to supporting a highly skilled workforce and a growing economy. In an independent Scotland, with full job creating powers we could do even more.”

Additional funding allocated to universities for 2013/14 will provide extra university places. This includes at least 700 places through widening access schemes to help young people from deprived areas access university, more than 1,000 articulation places for college students progressing to university and around 300 for skills for growth - targeted on subjects supporting the key industry sectors of energy and life sciences.

Related information

The Scottish Funding Council

theblether · December 18, 2012

Just in case any of you are in any doubt.........I'll be voting Yes to Independence

phuketjock · December 18, 2012

Just in case any of you are in any doubt.........I'll be voting Yes to Independence

Ditto

StreetCowboy · December 18, 2012

As a disenfranchised Scot, I hope that the few people with common sense are joined by sufficient people with ambition, perspicacity or conservative prudence to avert our nation from a turn into a secessionist dead end

SC

Edited December 18, 2012 by StreetCowboy

7by7 · December 18, 2012

..........everyone has agreed that there is no mechanism in EU law to strip any current EU citizen of citizenship. Full stop.

There is, actually.

As has been said many times in this thread, EU citizenship depends upon being a citizen of a member state. Don't believe me? Maybe you'll believe the EU itself.

EU citizenship

Any person who holds the nationality of an EU country is automatically also an EU citizen. EU citizenship is additional to and does not replace national citizenship. It is for each EU country to lay down the conditions for the acquisition and loss of nationality of that country.(my emphasis)

Citizenship of the European Union

ADDITIONS BY THE AMSTERDAM TREATY

Amendments have been made to Articles 17 and 21 (ex Articles 8 and 8(d)) of the EC Treaty, which define European citizenship.

Firstly, the Amsterdam clarifies the link between European and national citizenship. It states unequivocally that "citizenship of the Union shall complement and not replace national citizenship". Two practical conclusions follow from this:

it is first necessary to be a national of a Member State in order to enjoy citizenship of the Union; (my emphasis)

European citizenship will supplement and complement the rights conferred by national citizenship.

If one loses or renounces citizenship of a member state, one also loses EU citizenship.

There have been many arguments in the European Court about whether or not a member sate has the right to deprive someone of their citizenship of that state (see here for an interesting article on this), but the fundamental principle that to be an EU citizen one must be a citizen of a member state has, as far as I can determine, never been successfully challenged.

Also, the argument are all about someone being deprived of their citizenship of a member state; not about voluntarily renouncing it.

So, if someone renounces their nationality of a member state then they also renounce their EU citizenship.

By leaving the UK and becoming an independent nation, Scottish citizens will effectively renounce their British citizenship.

Of course, the UK government is not going to suddenly kick all Scots out of the UK.

I imagine that those living in England, Northern Ireland and Wales will automatically remain British. Whether they will also have Scottish nationality will depend on the nationality laws of the new Scottish government.

Those living in the newly independent Scotland will no longer be British, they will be Scottish.

I imagine that they will probably be allowed to keep their existing British passports until they need renewing, when they will be replaced by a Scottish one.

Scots living outside the UK? Maybe given a choice?

Pure conjecture on my part, of course, but conjecture backed up by historical precedent and certainly a better argument than

I will proven correct on this matter too, only the Little Englander nutters believe that the Scots will be marched to the border and drummed out of the Corp.

If you are so sure that you will be proven correct, say why.

Resorting, yet again, to insults shows that, yet again, you have no facts to back you up

StreetCowboy · December 18, 2012

I worry that independence may prohibit our champions from entering the Challenge Cup. Perhaps a Serbian, Italian, Russian or Lebanese team may take our place,

When you look at the proportion of Scottish governers that have been appointed to the British parliament, and our apparent dissatisfaction with the performance of that house, surely we should be seeking to abrogate our rights to election, rather than separating them out that we can punish ourseles by our own foolishness

SC

theblether · December 18, 2012

I admire your persistence in fighting this lost cause 7x7, but it's about time you realised that

( a ) Your wrong........and

( b ) EU membership will be affirmed before Independence Day.

It seems you have wasted about 3 weeks worth of man hours arguing about a moot point.

ps. re-read your highlighted points again, they don't help your erroneous argument.......normally when I turn to Google it's to gain information that will support my argument, not overturn it.

theblether · December 18, 2012

I worry that independence may prohibit our champions from entering the Challenge Cup. Perhaps a Serbian, Italian, Russian or Lebanese team may take our place,

When you look at the proportion of Scottish governers that have been appointed to the British parliament, and our apparent dissatisfaction with the performance of that house, surely we should be seeking to abrogate our rights to election, rather than separating them out that we can punish ourseles by our own foolishness

SC

The foolishness that's allowed ourselves to be shackled to a bankrupted economy?

Richard W · December 18, 2012

I imagine that those living in England, Northern Ireland and Wales will automatically remain British. Whether they will also have Scottish nationality will depend on the nationality laws of the new Scottish government.

Why do you expect nationality to be determined by residence rather than place of birth?

Place of birth has the advantage of being, with rare exceptions, officially recorded. Moreover, most categories of British nationality primarily derive from a place of birth. Similarly, belongership in the overseas territories primarily derives from birth.

I have noted that there may be problems with using place of birth for separating legal Welshmen and Englishmen. Apparently some communities in Flintshire have been served by maternity wards in England. Is there such a problem between England and Scotland?

Place of residence is less clearly defined, and as you have noted, does not assist in the matter of citizens temporarily living and working overseas. Some people have two or more residences - at least as defined by electoral registers, unless the law has changed since I was a young man. Yet other people have no fixed abode.

Registration based on residence might be appropriate as an additional way of citizens of the UK of GB and NI to acquire citizenship of one of the redefined sovereign states.

Domicile would be even messier. Location at a particular time would be even more complicated to establish. I can see the makings of a comedy in the struggle of a group of Scots to reach Scotland by the requisite time! It would not be amusing for those who had to be in (or outside) Scotland at a specific time.

I expect Scottish nationality laws to be defined at the instant of independence. Of course, they may subsequently be amended after independence as the Scottish Queen in Parliament sees fit.

folium · December 18, 2012

theblether,

You started out by saying that Scotland was part of the EU and Scottish nationals were EU citizens and could not have that taken away from them.

You have been proved wrong on that point, even by the judge you have quoted, and are now saying that Scotland's position in the EU post independence is subject to negotiation!

Something I and others have been saying and the UK government knew all along.

Yet you insist that you were right all along, even though your position has swung a full 180 degrees. Amazing; are you sure you're not a politician?

BTW, I made no 'great play' of the SNP not asking for advice on this matter; maybe you should read the whole thread again. I may have mentioned the tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money they spent looking for advice, and the lies they then told the Scottish people, but that was it.

phuketjock,

If Scotland chooses to leave the UK they wont have been stripped of their British nationality; they will have voluntarily given it up and become Scottish citizens instead; as the Irish became Irish citizens when what is now the RoI left the UK.

Why should Scots retain British citizenship if Scotland leaves the UK?

I asked theblether this question; he's ignored it, as is usual with questions he doesn't like.

Can you answer it?

First history now geography.

We are all British and European by geography,and Scots now are Scottish citizens as the English are

English citizens, I have never felt British by nationality so I will not be missing anything, but I have no

objection if the English living in Scotland want to become Scottish post independance, they will be very

welcome. As far as me wanting to remain British you can shove your British nationality and your

citizenship firmly where the sun don't shine thank you.!!!!!

But I will still be British and european by geography!!!!

Sorry to disappoint now that we have moved on from history to geography lessons, but geographically you are not European at all.

The "continent" of Europe is a political fallacy dreamt up in order that there could be a separate continent at the western end of Eurasia. To prove the point, where is the eastern boundary of this alleged "continent" of Europe? We live on the single, continuous continental plate of Eurasia that stretches from Vladivostock to the eastern half of Iceland. So that would actually make you Scottish by nationality but also Asian, or if you are that fussed, Western Asian! So that makes us (all so called Europeans that is) cousins of the Thais; how appropriate!

The last time i was at school folium, as far as I can remember, tectonic plate boundarys were never

used to locate the geographical locations of countries, or for that matter continents. Asia starts in

Kazahkstan on a bridge over the ural river, as SC noted, in a city called Atyrau, when I worked there

I used to sleep everynight in Europe and go to work every morning in Asia. So we are in fact Europeans

whether you like it or not.

It would appear your geographical knowledge is on a par with your historical,, all a bit Googlish!!!

Looks like you skipped history, geography and spelling classes...so much for the much vaunted Scottish education system.

Europe is the only politically crafted "continent", all the other real continents are physical entities shaped by their continental plates, hence the name, bit of a giveaway...India gets added into Asia given the fact that their continental plate has been wedged into Eurasia for the last 50 million years, though of course it will have completely vanished, having rammed itself up and under the Himalayas, in the next 40-50 million odd years.

Be grateful that Scotland is just drifting off on a NE course........along with the rest of the UK! Political secession (which of course as we all know won't happen) notwithstanding, the UK is locked in a geographical embrace far greater than any individual, be it Henry VIII, Queen Anne or Ann, or even King Salmon I!

Richard W · December 18, 2012

There have been many arguments in the European Court about whether or not a member sate has the right to deprive someone of their citizenship of that state (see here for an interesting article on this), but the fundamental principle that to be an EU citizen one must be a citizen of a member state has, as far as I can determine, never been successfully challenged.

I see that we do not know what has happen to Janko Rottmann's EU citizenship. The ruling was merely that deprivation of German citizenship appeared to be in order, and it is possible that he has not yet been deprived of German citizenship, let alone denied resumption of Austrian citizenship.

It seems we could have an ECJ ruling that dual Edinburgh-based/London-based nationality was being granted too freely! It could come about if a dual national renounced one nationality so he could be joined by non-EEA family members, only to be denied at the national level on the basis that such renunciations do not count.

folium · December 18, 2012

As a disenfranchised Scot, I hope that the few people with common sense are joined by sufficient people with ambition, perspicacity or conservative prudence to avert our nation from a turn into a secessionist dead end

SC

SC

Don't fret, the independendance (sic) crew are still struggling to get anywhere near a majority come referendum time. What Blether and his little helpers can't deny is that independance (sic) is still a minority option for Scottish voters, most of whom can see this self-indulgent exercise for what it is. Perhaps I should start running daytrips up to Spean Bridge....

Personally, I will be voting against such short-sighted, self-indulgence and I get the feeling I will not be alone....

theblether · December 19, 2012

As a disenfranchised Scot, I hope that the few people with common sense are joined by sufficient people with ambition, perspicacity or conservative prudence to avert our nation from a turn into a secessionist dead end

SC

SC

Don't fret, the independendance (sic) crew are still struggling to get anywhere near a majority come referendum time. What Blether and his little helpers can't deny is that independance (sic) is still a minority option for Scottish voters, most of whom can see this self-indulgent exercise for what it is. Perhaps I should start running daytrips up to Spean Bridge....

Personally, I will be voting against such short-sighted, self-indulgence and I get the feeling I will not be alone....

Well......I do expect two people to vote against Independence so I'm pretty sure your not alone, but your in for a shock......Tam Dalyell foretold.......he foretold........and he IS being proven right. .

StreetCowboy · December 19, 2012

I worry that independence may prohibit our champions from entering the Challenge Cup. Perhaps a Serbian, Italian, Russian or Lebanese team may take our place,

When you look at the proportion of Scottish governers that have been appointed to the British parliament, and our apparent dissatisfaction with the performance of that house, surely we should be seeking to abrogate our rights to election, rather than separating them out that we can punish ourseles by our own foolishness

SC

The foolishness that's allowed ourselves to be shackled to a bankrupted economy?

One over which we have had more than our fair share of influence. How quickly will we bankrput ourselves when we have untrammelled influence?

SC

Orac · December 19, 2012

The financial issues will be paramount, particularly how the 'liabilities' get split. I would guess one of the thorniest questions will be pensions, both state and government, and who pays them after a split. I can't see either government been keen to pick up the tab for the pensions of expats after a split which would include those claiming Scottish nationality living in what remains of the UK and vice versa.

nontabury · December 19, 2012

Just in case any of you are in any doubt.........I'll be voting Yes to Independence

And if I did have the vote,I would vote with you. It's a pity that when the genius(Alex Salmonds) negotiated the terms of the referendum,in addition to demanding all the mature 16 and 17yr olds be givern the vote, he din't also insist that all residents in England,should also be allowed to vote,if he had,separation would be a forgone conclusion.

folium · December 19, 2012

As a disenfranchised Scot, I hope that the few people with common sense are joined by sufficient people with ambition, perspicacity or conservative prudence to avert our nation from a turn into a secessionist dead end

SC

SC

Don't fret, the independendance (sic) crew are still struggling to get anywhere near a majority come referendum time. What Blether and his little helpers can't deny is that independance (sic) is still a minority option for Scottish voters, most of whom can see this self-indulgent exercise for what it is. Perhaps I should start running daytrips up to Spean Bridge....

Personally, I will be voting against such short-sighted, self-indulgence and I get the feeling I will not be alone....

Well......I do expect two people to vote against Independence so I'm pretty sure your not alone, but your in for a shock......Tam Dalyell foretold.......he foretold........and he IS being proven right. .

Come on, remind us of the latest polling numbers on independence for Scotland and your repeated admission several hundred posts ago that you recognized that the referendum was unwinnable and the game was all about bluffing the UK government into making silly deals prior to the vote, or do I have to trawl back to pages way back to remind you...?

I certainly don't need/want another passport so can we drop all the silly pretending that the referendum will go Salmond's way...

7by7 · December 19, 2012

I admire your persistence in fighting this lost cause 7x7, but it's about time you realised that

( a ) Your wrong........and

( b ) EU membership will be affirmed before Independence Day.

It seems you have wasted about 3 weeks worth of man hours arguing about a moot point.

ps. re-read your highlighted points again, they don't help your erroneous argument.......normally when I turn to Google it's to gain information that will support my argument, not overturn it.

If Scotland leaves the UK it also leaves the EU; if Scottish citizens lose their UK nationality they lose their EU citizenship.

That is a fact, no matter how many times you deny it.

Scotland may, note may, be able to negotiate instant EU membership the moment it becomes independent; but if it doesn't, which is the likely scenario, then you will not be EU members nor EU citizens.

It's not Cameron who is running scared of this issue; it's Salmond. Hence his lies about it.

The foolishness that's allowed ourselves to be shackled to a bankrupted economy?

An economy bankrupted by a Scottish Chancellor and a Scottish Prime Minister.

ajarnpot · December 19, 2012

at last, let those tight fisted Scots use their own taxes for their cities, and lower costs of education.

theblether · December 19, 2012

I didn't say it was unwinnable......I did say I expect defeat. There's a difference.

7x7. ... your wasting your time, your wrong in fact, and by practise Scotland will have the Treaties signed and will be a full member by Independence Day. Your the only guy in the World that thinks that Scotland won't be an EU member in the end up.

SC......that's a giant leap in logic, it wss the UK government that presided over the bankruptcy of the UK, not the Scottish government.

StreetCowboy · December 19, 2012

I didn't say it was unwinnable......I did say I expect defeat. There's a difference.

7x7. ... your wasting your time, your wrong in fact, and by practise Scotland will have the Treaties signed and will be a full member by Independence Day. Your the only guy in the World that thinks that Scotland won't be an EU member in the end up.

SC......that's a giant leap in logic, it wss the UK government that presided over the bankruptcy of the UK, not the Scottish government.

But Scots have been in recent years over-represented in government.

My understanding was that in fact it was the banks that ran into problems, and had to be bailed out, while the government's credit remains fairly sound. In particular, as I recall, Royal Bank of Scotland and Bank of Scotland suffered particular problems. Personally, I don't understand the issues well enough to comment, other than to note that the bank's problems were due to their own mismanagement and inadequate risk controls. I find it particularly humiliating that my bank bought ABN Amro, presumably at peak value, and now has ridiculously prestigious offices around the world at a time when they should be moving into a shed on an industrial estate in Livingston to cut costs.

SC

EDIT: While the Scottish banks were not alone in their problems, they did show an abject failure to live up to their stereotype of frugal caution.

Edited December 19, 2012 by StreetCowboy

jpinx · December 19, 2012

I believe that most banks have owners who are virtually all based in London. I do not believe there is such a thing as a "Scottish Bank" except in name only. Look around the world . the Bank of New Zealand is owned by Australia

Banking is a non-issue in the independence debate. The issue is much more about what tax revenues come from who and go to where. There will be tears over the carve-up on independence day, but that is to be expected and certainly will not prevent the will of the people being enacted - whatever they choose. Let's hope it's a better crafted carve-up than the ones when the Euro was launched or when the Scottish parliament was established.

StreetCowboy · December 19, 2012

I believe that most banks have owners who are virtually all based in London. I do not believe there is such a thing as a "Scottish Bank" except in name only. Look around the world . the Bank of New Zealand is owned by Australia

Banking is a non-issue in the independence debate. The issue is much more about what tax revenues come from who and go to where. There will be tears over the carve-up on independence day, but that is to be expected and certainly will not prevent the will of the people being enacted - whatever they choose. Let's hope it's a better crafted carve-up than the ones when the Euro was launched or when the Scottish parliament was established.

I believe that the Scottish banks are still headquartered in Edinburgh (RBOS, St Andrew's Square) (BOS is owned by the Lloyds TSB group, but still operates independently, as far as I am aware, and maintains a head office in Edinburgh)

My point was that it was not the government that broke the economy, but rather the banks and their inadequate risk controls. In fact, the government poured in liquidity to keep the economy turning.

SC

phuketjock · December 19, 2012

As a disenfranchised Scot, I hope that the few people with common sense are joined by sufficient people with ambition, perspicacity or conservative prudence to avert our nation from a turn into a secessionist dead end

SC

SC

Don't fret, the independendance (sic) crew are still struggling to get anywhere near a majority come referendum time. What Blether and his little helpers can't deny is that independance (sic) is still a minority option for Scottish voters, most of whom can see this self-indulgent exercise for what it is. Perhaps I should start running daytrips up to Spean Bridge....

Personally, I will be voting against such short-sighted, self-indulgence and I get the feeling I will not be alone....

Well......I do expect two people to vote against Independence so I'm pretty sure your not alone, but your in for a shock......Tam Dalyell foretold.......he foretold........and he IS being proven right. .

Come on, remind us of the latest polling numbers on independence for Scotland and your repeated admission several hundred posts ago that you recognized that the referendum was unwinnable and the game was all about bluffing the UK government into making silly deals prior to the vote, or do I have to trawl back to pages way back to remind you...?

I certainly don't need/want another passport so can we drop all the silly pretending that the referendum will go Salmond's way...

HaHa folium since when did any poll 2 years before the event have any relevance to the possible outcome???

So you can drop the silly pretending that there will be a NO vote.

And we will still be European.

but just keep on

Edited December 19, 2012 by phuketjock

jpinx · December 19, 2012

Head office location is no indicator of the location of the "owners" - whether the bank is "operating independently" or not. All that is just window-dressing to keep the public mollified - but we know better - don't we

StreetCowboy · December 19, 2012

Head office location is no indicator of the location of the "owners" - whether the bank is "operating independently" or not. All that is just window-dressing to keep the public mollified - but we know better - don't we

I don't think it matters where the owners live, either. What does matter is whether the banks function as independent businesses. I used to own the Bank of Scotland - not all of it, mind, but a bit.

It makes a big difference for the people that work in a bank where its offices are, and it also has some impact on their customers.

SC

jpinx · December 19, 2012

I believe that most banks have owners who are virtually all based in London. I do not believe there is such a thing as a "Scottish Bank" except in name only. Look around the world . the Bank of New Zealand is owned by Australia

Banking is a non-issue in the independence debate. The issue is much more about what tax revenues come from who and go to where. There will be tears over the carve-up on independence day, but that is to be expected and certainly will not prevent the will of the people being enacted - whatever they choose. Let's hope it's a better crafted carve-up than the ones when the Euro was launched or when the Scottish parliament was established.

I believe that the Scottish banks are still headquartered in Edinburgh (RBOS, St Andrew's Square) (BOS is owned by the Lloyds TSB group, but still operates independently, as far as I am aware, and maintains a head office in Edinburgh)

My point was that it was not the government that broke the economy, but rather the banks and their inadequate risk controls. In fact, the government poured in liquidity to keep the economy turning.

SC

Point taken - but not applied to any one bank of any one country. The fallout is yet to finish....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20767984#

theblether · December 19, 2012

Financial regulation is a reserved issue to the UK government, making it a Scottish issue is a nonsense.

The framework which led to the collapse of the banking system was designed by various governments over decades, I fon't excuse Gordon Brown for his role in the disaster, far from it, I cannot stand that egotistical basket case, however he had to contend with various Acts of Parliament that set in train the psychology that led to the explosion in credit provision and surreal risk taking.

It was a problem made in Westminster.

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