A I T Students Stage Rally Fearing Degrees Invalid, Questions Deal With U S Firm

[webfact]

AIT students stage rally fearing degrees invalid

SUPINDA NA MAHACHAI

JUTHARAT THIPNAMPA

CHULEEPORN ARAMNET

THE NATION

Complaint alleges degrees will not be certified; questions deal with US firm

BANGKOK: -- A number of Asian Institute of Technology students yesterday staged a protest against their president over concerns that their degrees will not be certified by the Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC), and suspicion that the president is opening up an opportunity to a US-based company to administer the institute.

The protesters lodged a complaint with AIT president Professor Said Irandoust, Education Ministry permanent secretary Panita Kambhu Na Ayutthaya and the Foreign Ministry.

"A number of students know that the graduate degrees given by the AIT after January 2012 will not be certified by the OCSC because the AIT issued a new charter in January this year, and the government has not yet ratified it. The government has only ratified the 1967 charter, which made the AIT an international institution that can work in the country legally. As the government has not ratified the 2012 charter, the OCSC will not certify the degrees approved by the AIT council," said Amornphon Changsuphan, a doctorate-degree student in environmental engineering and management at the AIT's School of Environment, Resources and Development.

"Among the students who will be affected directly by this problem, about 900 of them, or 30 per cent, are Thai," he added.

He represented the students in lodging the complaint with the permanent secretary for education.

Amornphon said the Foreign Ministry had written to the AIT president on September 13, stating that the government had not ratified the new charter. The degrees approved by the institute would not therefore be recognised by the OCSC.

The degree-certification problem results from the AIT's current legal status, and students are worried that the ministry's explanation will affect those who graduated since January.

He said one group of students that graduated in June had had their degrees approved under the new charter. The OCSC certified the degrees because it had not been informed that the AIT had announced a new charter. Those students now believe the agency will likely revoke its recognition, thus removing the validation of the degrees, he said.

"We would like both the Education and Foreign ministries to solve this problem soon. Most of the Thai students at AIT are [hoping to be] university lecturers and government officials, and they need to present their degrees with their [prospective] agencies. The second batch of graduates, or about 140 people, will be given the degrees in December. The problem has to end before December 1. If it lasts for a long time and more people know about it, some universities and companies will hesitate to hire graduates from the AIT," said Amornphon.

"And it's not only Thai students, as those from other countries are not satisfied with the problem, because they are also worried that those countries may not certify their degrees following the degree refusal in Thailand. We would like the president to discuss the matter and seek a solution with the government," he added.

"The president was told about the problem a year ago and said he would deal with the problem, but there has been no change so far," said Bhawat Traipattanakul, a master's student in energy engineering.

The students also said they were suspicious over the level of transparency in the AIT's administration, as it had opened up an opportunity to a foreign company to invest in the institute, even though it was a non-profit educational institution.

The AIT has also terminated the contracts of lecturers who opposed its administration, they said.

Bhawat also said that in the absence of official ratification of the new charter, the AIT had not been financially supported by the government.

The government had not allocated the expected Bt290 million for post-flood recovery or Bt46 million allocated for scholarships. It has also halved the research grant budget for the institute, Bhawat said.

Irandoust said AIT was in the process of discussing the issue with the Education and Foreign ministries to ensure total compliance with Thai law. He expected the problem would be resolved by the end of December, before the next batch of students graduate.

He insisted that AIT's degrees upheld the necessary standards and were recognised by international associations.

Responding to allegations that he had failed to administer AIT transparently, he said he had done everything according to the regulations and that the public was free to monitor the transparency of his actions.

He said the students' protest might have been motivated by a conflict between him and the institute's alumni association.

-- The Nation 2012-10-18

[MaxLee]

In other words what the government agencies are trying to convey ro the affected AIT Graduate students:

"We sh******load on you and your pathetic low status degrees. Now, Get lost and don't waste our time as we have more urgent (corruption-)matters to take care of."

[asiawatcher]

Thai education is abysmal in many ways and only international schooling gives kids a chance, and there is a huge price to be paid for that. Degrees are handed out like bus tickets, endorsed by patronage and the all important robed scholar and the two shot proof of education is proudly displayed in tin shacks, villages as well as middle class homes for relatives to admire. Sadly, placing a degree qualified Thai alongside a western equally degreed holder, is like chalk and cheese. Having employed my first MBA Grad here in 2001, asking her to set up a chart of accounts, she asked - what is that. Just an example of a failed system and why Thai's need western influence in their education system.

Until late 1800's only royals were allowed to be educated in Thailand, and the court thereafter until the first 'public' school was opened in 1923, Thailand has only had education publicly for less than a hundred years. How their education system has evolved to Universities is conjecture but I would bet copied by enterprising overseas graduates and instigated here to begin with, and now without checks and balances as to standards. Yes there are a few good ones here now but there are also ones where the degree is worth what I stated before, they are about as good as a bus ticket.

Edited October 18, 2012 by asiawatcher

[MaxLee]

Quality of education doesn't really matter here in Thailand as long as this university "has a good name"

Nowadays there are so many mass produced graduate students roaming around with degrees who end up in employement so badly because they do not serve the needs of society.

Jobs only exist in relative circles, the more corrupt, the better for the sake of saving face

[bigbamboo]

Thai degrees are the best money can buy.

[belg]

what i can see is that any university degree in whatever useless direction (geography, history, arts) is more important when you apply for a job than somebody with a high school education, 10 years of proven expertise autiodidact

face, face, face

[Amras]

what i can see is that any university degree in whatever useless direction (geography, history, arts) is more important when you apply for a job than somebody with a high school education, 10 years of proven expertise autiodidact

face, face, face

Exactly...such a major problem. Girlfriend had to quit university after 2 years due to (unfortuante) family reasons. Luckily was employed by a family friend in the event planning industry. Has had three years experience now, managed a team etc etc, but it's worth nothing because...oh no degree. A degree without experience is worth more than years of experience on the job, here.

It's amazing rubbish and shows how positions are filled with people lacking in skills. I still don't understand their thinking....and guess I never will.

[Baerboxer]

Thai education is abysmal in many ways and only international schooling gives kids a chance, and there is a huge price to be paid for that. Degrees are handed out like bus tickets, endorsed by patronage and the all important robed scholar and the two shot proof of education is proudly displayed in tin shacks, villages as well as middle class homes for relatives to admire. Sadly, placing a degree qualified Thai alongside a western equally degreed holder, is like chalk and cheese. Having employed my first MBA Grad here in 2001, asking her to set up a chart of accounts, she asked - what is that. Just an example of a failed system and why Thai's need western influence in their education system.

Until late 1800's only royals were allowed to be educated in Thailand, and the court thereafter until the first 'public' school was opened in 1923, Thailand has only had education publicly for less than a hundred years. How their education system has evolved to Universities is conjecture but I would bet copied by enterprising overseas graduates and instigated here to begin with, and now without checks and balances as to standards. Yes there are a few good ones here now but there are also ones where the degree is worth what I stated before, they are about as good as a bus ticket.

This is your experience - which is unfortunate. I know some very good Thai private schools. Similarly I know some very expensive "international" schools where the costs are very high and the education very average - one of the problems with franchises, which is what they are.

I have seen a considerable number of Thai and farang students fail at 4 universities this year - at Masters and PhD level.

American, British, Australian, French and German friends all say similar things about education in their own countires i.e. it is very variable despite the efforts of governments and agencies. I know Thais whose English is very poor - but they were still awarded Masters degrees by an Australian university - hardly a recommendation and mind boggling. Try employing an Indian with an MBA from and Indian university - the last one I employed couldn't research and write a basic report!

Thailand has its problems - but so do many other countries, including the "Western ones".

Edited October 18, 2012 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

what i can see is that any university degree in whatever useless direction (geography, history, arts) is more important when you apply for a job than somebody with a high school education, 10 years of proven expertise autiodidact

face, face, face

Exactly...such a major problem. Girlfriend had to quit university after 2 years due to (unfortuante) family reasons. Luckily was employed by a family friend in the event planning industry. Has had three years experience now, managed a team etc etc, but it's worth nothing because...oh no degree. A degree without experience is worth more than years of experience on the job, here.

It's amazing rubbish and shows how positions are filled with people lacking in skills. I still don't understand their thinking....and guess I never will.

This is becoming the global norm - not just a Thai phenomenon. People without degrees simply don't get to interviews for many jobs now.

I agree - experience is highly desirable, but unless they have that important degree or similar professional qaulification, they just don't get on the short list.

[Baerboxer]

Thai degrees are the best money can buy.

Do you actually have any idea of the standards and regulation regarding degrees in Thailand? I guess not based on your comment. Check it out and be surprised.

[gk10002000]

In my third year of college here in the uSA, my engineering Sciences Degree got cancelled! Took me 3 extra semsters (1 1/2 years) to graduate as I switched engineering majors.

[webfact]

EDUCATION

AIT's legal status could be a problem

CHULEEPORN ARAMNET

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Following Wednesday's protest by Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) students worried about the validity of their degrees, a senior education official said yesterday that AIT's curricula had been certified in accordance with Thai laws, so the problem had more to do with the school's legal status.

The students lodged a complaint on Wednesday with the Education Ministry, the Foreign Ministry and AIT president Prof Said Irandoust over concerns that the Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC) would not certify their degrees. Their concerns stem from the fact that AIT issued a new charter in January, and the government has not yet ratified it.

"If the current students' degrees are bestowed under the 1967 charter of AIT ratified by the Thai government, then the degrees will be legal. However, if their degrees are bestowed under the new charter, they will be illegal as the government has not yet ratified it," said Assoc Prof Kamjorn Tatiyakavee, deputy secretary-general of the Office of the Higher Education Commission (OHEC).

"I'm not worried about students already studying at AIT as much as I am about the new ones who will enrol at AIT. If AIT insists that it will administer [its education programme] under an unratified charter, the new students who study and graduate under the new charter will have a problem with degree certification. Also, AIT itself will become an illegal institution under Thai law," Kamjorn said.

He said OHEC planned to discuss the problem soon with AIT, the Foreign Ministry and other agencies. He wanted AIT and the Foreign Ministry to solve the problem quickly, before more problems arise.

Meanwhile, Bhawat Traipattanakul, a master's student in energy engineering who represented AIT's students in lodging Wednesday's complaint, said they would continue to raise the issue until a solution is found, and would not simply wait for the president to take action.

-- The Nation 2012-10-19

[Baloo22]

Thai degrees are the best money can buy.

Do you actually have any idea of the standards and regulation regarding degrees in Thailand? I guess not based on your comment. Check it out and be surprised.

Are these "standards and regulations" anything like other Thai governent rules, regulations, and laws that are enforced only upon personal profit of police or other officials? And enforcement avoided by the submission of suitable payments or favors to appropriate officials?

[bunuel]

Sorry, but having taught extensively at universities in both the United States and Thailand, I can only say that, while no education

system is perfect, the Thai system has a long way to go .

Thai degrees are the best money can buy.

Do you actually have any idea of the standards and regulation regarding degrees in Thailand? I guess not based on your comment. Check it out and be surprised.

[Time Traveller]

Thai education is abysmal in many ways and only international schooling gives kids a chance, and there is a huge price to be paid for that. Degrees are handed out like bus tickets, endorsed by patronage and the all important robed scholar and the two shot proof of education is proudly displayed in tin shacks, villages as well as middle class homes for relatives to admire. Sadly, placing a degree qualified Thai alongside a western equally degreed holder, is like chalk and cheese. Having employed my first MBA Grad here in 2001, asking her to set up a chart of accounts, she asked - what is that. Just an example of a failed system and why Thai's need western influence in their education system.

Until late 1800's only royals were allowed to be educated in Thailand, and the court thereafter until the first 'public' school was opened in 1923, Thailand has only had education publicly for less than a hundred years. How their education system has evolved to Universities is conjecture but I would bet copied by enterprising overseas graduates and instigated here to begin with, and now without checks and balances as to standards. Yes there are a few good ones here now but there are also ones where the degree is worth what I stated before, they are about as good as a bus ticket.

This is your experience - which is unfortunate. I know some very good Thai private schools. Similarly I know some very expensive "international" schools where the costs are very high and the education very average - one of the problems with franchises, which is what they are.

I have seen a considerable number of Thai and farang students fail at 4 universities this year - at Masters and PhD level.

American, British, Australian, French and German friends all say similar things about education in their own countires i.e. it is very variable despite the efforts of governments and agencies. I know Thais whose English is very poor - but they were still awarded Masters degrees by an Australian university - hardly a recommendation and mind boggling. Try employing an Indian with an MBA from and Indian university - the last one I employed couldn't research and write a basic report!

Thailand has its problems - but so do many other countries, including the "Western ones".

The Australian universities are reliant on foreign students for much of their income. That's why Asian students with very poor english skills still pass, the universities don't dare kill their golden goose by failing the foreign students.

Top tier American universities on the other hand get much of their revenue from endowments and tuition fees, so protecting their standards and reputation is more important and allows them to continue to charge exorbitant tuition fees.

Finally, do the Thai universities still require students to study badminton and muay thai?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Time Traveller

[bigbamboo]

Thai degrees are the best money can buy.

Do you actually have any idea of the standards and regulation regarding degrees in Thailand? I guess not based on your comment. Check it out and be surprised.

As a teacher myself the answer to your question is yes. However like many 'standards and regulations' in Thailand they are not always applied as assiduously as they should be.