4 Feb Anti-thaksin Demonstration Thread

[fanciman]

Why did the links resolve to the wrong site?

Is it censorship?

You watch too many spy movies, it was actually a typo.

It should work now.

cv

http://www.hispeedworld.com/main/tv/

hah!

OK, maybe it *was* paranoia. But... where has my paranoid post now disappeared to?

Am i losing my mind?!

[Plus]

We had to pick up the antennae capable of recieving Nation Channel form a selected shop to get a discounted price. That antennae is very different from a regular aerial. That was two-three years ago. Has anything changed?

[baht&sold]

Last word on this from me (eyes slamming shut at the mo- ppl applauding in background;

I trust the CEO as far as I could throw him and am almost as dubious of the spectacled man in yellow's motives to boot, then throw in the general Thai apathy on this (who could blame them) and there you have it. However, I was impressed by the restraint shown by all sides tonight and it's GREAT and healthy to see people exercising their rights in this manner (on TV too;).

It's all good and goodnight all

Edit: PS, this isn't '92, just evolution. Hopefully this demonstration tonight marks positive progress towards a more vibrant democracy and reinforced enhancing/respecting of personal and press freedoms We'll see.

Edited February 4, 2006 by baht&sold

[thailien8]

"He is our Prime Minister and if me and the Thai people decide that we dont want him any more then we will VOTE him out."

Ah, the charming innocence and beauty of the Thai people comes through again.... They have nearly as much simple-minded belief in democracy as George W. Bush, who rants about bringing democracy to the Middle East, then is horrified when Palestinians vote for Hamas. I'm afraid that Toxin has entrenched himself far too deeply in the Thai power structure, with all his friends and relatives in key positions, to ever be simply voted out. He has closely copied marvelous role models in perverting democracy such as Lee Kwan Yu of Singapore (his favorite), Mahathir Muhammed of Malaysia (a close second) and other democratic dictators like Hun Sen of Cambodia, the long-lasting Suharto of Indonesia, and of course the ultimate wet dreams of the dictatorial nutcases, the democratically-elected Hitler, the slimy kill-em-off approach of Stalin, the popularly-acclaimed madman Mao, the vicious outbursts of mass murder of Toxin's good buddy Than Shwe of Burma, and let us not forget the loser of the popular vote who was selected by his friends in the Supreme Court, Bush of the USA. In other words, folks, get rid of power-monsters like Toxin by any means at any opportunity, or be prepared to suffer at their hands for many, many years to come.

[Heng]

So much for the revolution. Lolz!

Night all. It's another day in paradise tomorrow.

[WISteve]

""He is our Prime Minister and if me and the Thai people decide that we dont want him any more then we will VOTE him out."

Good for You! I applaud your common sense and desire to be self-governing.

It is afterall, the matter of the Thai people who shall be prime minister and not some unknowns on the internet.

However it turns out, I hope it is peaceful and within the letter of the law.

"Ah, the charming innocence and beauty of the Thai people comes through again.... They have nearly as much simple-minded belief in democracy as George W. Bush, who rants about bringing democracy to the Middle East, then is horrified when Palestinians vote for Hamas. I'm afraid that Toxin has entrenched himself far too deeply in the Thai power structure, with all his friends and relatives in key positions, to ever be simply voted out.

It's obvious the poster has NO RESPECT for the people of Thailand!

Calling someone simple-minded is an insult to anyone.

You have no say in who the peole elect.

Just because they choose someone you do not like does not mean they are stupid.

In other words, folks, get rid of power-monsters like Toxin by any means at any opportunity, or be prepared to suffer at their hands for many, many years to come."

So the poster is apparently an anarchist who would tell you to let mob rule trump free elections.

Whoever or whatever you are, you are not a friend to the Thai people.

Peaceful demonstrations to express the feelings of the electorate is to be encouraged and closely protected.

Allowing a small group of dissidents to unseat a duly elected official is not democracy by any means.

If the PM has broken any laws, let him be prosecuted for them, like any citizen.

Encouraging violent overthrow of a government is not in the interests of the people IMO.

~WISteve

[malmoking]

Come on, Thais are still in their baby phase of democracy. They are still in infantile face of their mental developement. Even they say they have a constitution, but it is just there as a ornamental flower vase.

Also Thaksin is not perfect, but he has built a better economy for this dirt poor nation and better life for the average Thais after he took over the office. You have to remember this dirt poor nation is run by a small hiarchy with massive manipulation of masses of ordinary thais.

If Sondhi and his mafia gangs want to outst Thaksin, I am not sure there is a better guy for this country where democracy and people's mentality are still in infantile state.

Thailand claims to have a constitution and claims to be a democracy, but both Sondi and Thaksin both made very critical and unconstitutional errors. Sondhi tried to remove him by submit to privy council, whatever that is, then request their king to replace the prime minister. And the Thaksin also said the only person that can remove him is the king.

Both men have absolute no knowledge of the Thai constitution, even it's so called constitutional monarchy, king has no power at all to remove an legally elected prime minister. The ultimate power still belong to the people, the majority of people, not to the king. Both of the men totally ignore the rights of the people, and come down to bet their future on one single man, the king, which is totally unconstitutional and undemoncratic. Thats why I said the Thais are still in thier infantile stage of mental evolution. Even the leaders can think logically.

If Sondi wants to remove Thaksin, it has to be in the hands of the people. The 19 million who vote him in, and the 19 million or over half of them is needed to vote him out in a referemdum. If this Sondi guy has any determination and really think about the benifits of the future, he should follow this path and convince the ordinary Thais that Thaksin made very serious and critical and unforgivable errors and has to be impeached. Then convince the Senate to hold referemdum on his impeachment. But to me this Sondi guy is just full of jealousy and hatred to the success and popularity of thaksin. He knows he will get nowhere with referendum to impeach if he has suceess in holding one. This guy has his own hidden agendas, not for the benifits of all these dirt poor Thais, but for his own hidden desires.

[Slim Chance]

Any defenders of Mr. T need look no further than reports by the many international human rights organizations to find over-whelming evidence proving that the man and his regime are calculated cold-blooded killers. Just try clicking in the words ‘Thailand’ and ‘human rights’ and read what your search engines spit out.

In the sewer of politics, the scum always rises to the top.

All you fine proponents of democratic elections should bear in mind that ‘democracy’ is nothing but a sham and a tool in which the power-driven elite fool the masses into believing there is government of the people. Witness the U.S. spread of ‘democracy’ at work in Iraq to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dead bodies. Remember when Ireland was allowed to vote for independence and England chose to partition the country instead? There’s the bottom line of the world’s great democracies.

As has been pointed out, Hitler was elected too.

‘Democracy’ is an dated concept that has outlived it’s usefulness. People get power when and only when they take it.

The majority is, but in the rarest of cases, always wrong.

[sajal]

but he has built a better economy for this dirt poor nation and better life for the average Thais after he took over the office.

IMHO its more of a right place at the right time sort of situation.

i personally believe thailand would have been much better had toxin not come to power.

[sriracha john]

how you made your money is not so important although if you killed people for it then that wouldn't be so good but even that could be overlooked

That sure does apply to Kam Nan Poh, Chonburi's well known mafia lord.

And it works for his kids too penzman, did you notice their faces pasted everywhere alongside the number 9 before the last election?

Who else was lucky enough to get the number 9?

Anyway, isn't he in prison?

I heard he paid his way out of hiring the hitmen, but got caught up in some other mess and ended up locked up.

No Tuky, he's out... been out. He's not spent one day in jail (only an hour or so to arrange bail)despite being convicted of first degree murder (almost 2 years ago now), fraud, embezzlement, etc.

He remains free to this day....

[penzman]

I seem to remember 30 mil baht for bail.

As for the rally, the only incident I've seen so far was a guy standing in the crowd holding a sign that said "Thaksin is a good man". He stood there for about 30 seconds, the sign went flying but he was gently escorted away by an elderly man, no punches thrown

[marshbags]

I,m not sure if this is O.T. but relevant.

This is a very good example of the double standards according to your station.

Even the local English paper feted him on his birthday showing his ill gotten celebrity and did a coverage on the celebrations to this effect, showing him as a V.I.P. instead of a convicted criminal.

It made me feel sick when i saw it.

The paper showed it,s true colours on this one instead of keeping it out of the news.

Remember this man has been convicted of very serious crimes and is only free because of his influences and political connections, not his innocence.

Which sadly give the paper the same double standards on this issue of what the problem with society is and being influenced by people who should know better.

marshbags

Well, everyone I know had a totally different take on that story. The newspaper didn't "Fete" him - the VIP's did that. The paper simply reported the event and included a photo of the chief guests. Absolutely amazing that a convicted criminal could be feted in this way - I believe the Governer of Chon Buri was there, amongst others. Of course it shows the iniquitous double standards - but not of the newspaper - they're the ones who brought it to our attention - thank you, Bangkok Post!

Sorry to mislead you Mobi by not being a bit more explicit, i was thinking about descretion and the censorship side of things.

The paper i was referring to was from Pattaya and there in attendance with smiles and showing

obvious affection where all the local dignitaries including the newspaper reps.

If certain locals where not shown in this manner i would agree it was as you rightly say about the

" B.post, just bringing it to our attention. "

Sadly the Pattaya newspaper didn,t do this and this display sent out the wrong signals by giving the scum convicted creditabilty and an appearance of respectabilty for evil.

This is the core of what,s wrong in the present Thai government and the appearance that it,s o.k. for them to use there privlidged positions for self gain and not for the people who elected them.

I am very pleased the overnight protests ended peacefully and gives further respectability to the Thais in attendance, also the beginning hopefully of what true democracy can achieve.

Perhaps we are at last seeing education coming into the equation and highlighting the cause of the discontent and offence against honest Thai,s instead of violence which would have given F**s**n

ammunition against them.

I for one am encouraged by this peaceful demonsration. full credit to all who attended

Both the Bangkok Post and the Nation have been giving fair coverage through out the last few weeks and all credit for that also.

Thank you for the relief i feel this morning to all the attendees.

marshbags

Edited February 5, 2006 by marshbags

[Cassandra]

"He is our Prime Minister and if me and the Thai people decide that we dont want him any more then we will VOTE him out."

Ah, the charming innocence and beauty of the Thai people comes through again.... They have nearly as much simple-minded belief in democracy as George W. Bush, who rants about bringing democracy to the Middle East, then is horrified when Palestinians vote for Hamas. I'm afraid that Toxin has entrenched himself far too deeply in the Thai power structure, with all his friends and relatives in key positions, to ever be simply voted out. He has closely copied marvelous role models in perverting democracy such as Lee Kwan Yu of Singapore (his favorite), Mahathir Muhammed of Malaysia (a close second) and other democratic dictators like Hun Sen of Cambodia, the long-lasting Suharto of Indonesia, and of course the ultimate wet dreams of the dictatorial nutcases, the democratically-elected Hitler, the slimy kill-em-off approach of Stalin, the popularly-acclaimed madman Mao, the vicious outbursts of mass murder of Toxin's good buddy Than Shwe of Burma, and let us not forget the loser of the popular vote who was selected by his friends in the Supreme Court, Bush of the USA. In other words, folks, get rid of power-monsters like Toxin by any means at any opportunity, or be prepared to suffer at their hands for many, many years to come.

Few of us have much enthusiasm for Thaksin.My own take is a sense of disappointment at opportunities wasted but I doubt whether he is less effective than many past PMs.What's interesting is the intense dislike he generates among some members of this forum.Even some who are meant to be independent arbiters feel free to indulge in abusive language such as "Toxin".The post above ludicrously compares him to Hitler and Stalin.The more obvious and apt comparison I would have thought is to Berlusconi.However it's best to remember -for those that live here- we are guests in this country and while entitled to express our views should do so with politeness.It's simply untrue that Thaksin can never be voted out of power.

[ratcatcher]

Protesters in Bangkok do not play by the rules: Thaksin

Published on Feb 04 , 2006

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra today branded those who gathered at the Royal Plaza as not playing by the rules.

Speaking at a reunion party of Monfort School, Thaksin said this school had taught him to play and respect rules and laws, but those who are now at the Royal Plaza do not play by rules.

Apparently referring to Sondhi Limthongkul, a leading critic who is rallying against him at the Royal Plaza, Thaksin said any society that is led by a thug cannot be existed.

The Nation

Quote of the day:

[/b] Thaksin said "Any society that is led by a thug cannot be existed" (sic).

Edited February 5, 2006 by ratcatcher

[dan10400]

but he has built a better economy for this dirt poor nation and better life for the average Thais after he took over the office.

IMHO its more of a right place at the right time sort of situation.

i personally believe thailand would have been much better had toxin not come to power.

I agree. The WSJ had a short editorial about Thaksin a bit back. When Thaksin

started, GDP growth was about 5%, this year lucky to make 5%. Other than a

few years of consumption-led growth spurts, this is pretty miserable for a developing

country.

given the condition of the world economy at the time, anybody could have led the

country to improved economic conditions.

--dan

[thaigene2]

Come on, Thais are still in their baby phase of democracy. [...]

[...] You have to remember this dirt poor nation is run by a small hiarchy with massive manipulation of masses of ordinary thais.

Yes, well true this is still a fledgling democracy. What I find interesting though is how once again the middle classes are showing their resentment. But I doubt they give a rat's rectum about 'ordinary Thais' you refer to. I suspected from the beginning this Sondhi thing was a storm in a teacup..and would flop.

The uprisings in Thailand seem to come from this small group of people largely in Bangkok. I suspect many are the sons/daughters of now-disenfranchised civil servants whose families came here from China during the last century to run the civil service. They're p+ssed off that their business class cousins now carry more sway, and they've lost their influence (and skimming rights?).

Even more interesting is that these squables originate and escalate within the small chinese-thai community who are disporportionately represented in business, politics and the civil service. With a couple of exceptions (Pak Moon Dam opponents and pressure groups) I don't see any busloads of ethnic Thais coming down from Isaan to demonstrate against rich Thai-Chin poo-yais running the country - they've never known anything else! I'll bet if you had another election tomorrow, TRT would still get a landslide majority with the exception of Bangkok.

As near as I can tell, Sondhi's rally has flopped, the yellow T-shirt crowd will return to their middle class family compounds and classrooms and reconsider their futures and ways to regain their families' influence and access to wealth in the year of the dog. Maybe time for some guangxi reconciliation between these business class and civil service class families? Then the chi will be re-established.

Thaksin has won this challenge, I reckon..his son will get fined over non-reporting, and that's the end of it...Another four years for TRT. People vote, they get what they deserve...just like the US and more recently Canada. It may be a fledgling democracy - but it is a functioning one at that.

I'll also be interested to see how the Nation tries to regain face after its super-hype "Judgement Day" etc..

They went for broke on this..and lost. Do editors now resign?

[sriracha john]

I,m not sure if this is O.T. but relevant.

This is a very good example of the double standards according to your station.

Even the local English paper feted him on his birthday showing his ill gotten celebrity and did a coverage on the celebrations to this effect, showing him as a V.I.P. instead of a convicted criminal.

It made me feel sick when i saw it.

The paper showed it,s true colours on this one instead of keeping it out of the news.

Remember this man has been convicted of very serious crimes and is only free because of his influences and political connections, not his innocence.

Which sadly give the paper the same double standards on this issue of what the problem with society is and being influenced by people who should know better.

marshbags

Well, everyone I know had a totally different take on that story. The newspaper didn't "Fete" him - the VIP's did that. The paper simply reported the event and included a photo of the chief guests. Absolutely amazing that a convicted criminal could be feted in this way - I believe the Governer of Chon Buri was there, amongst others. Of course it shows the iniquitous double standards - but not of the newspaper - they're the ones who brought it to our attention - thank you, Bangkok Post!

Sorry to mislead you Mobi by not being a bit more explicit, i was thinking about descretion and the censorship side of things.

The paper i was referring to was from Pattaya and there in attendance with smiles and showing

obvious affection where all the local dignitaries including the newspaper reps.

If certain locals where not shown in this manner i would agree it was as you rightly say about the

" B.post, just bringing it to our attention. "

Sadly the Pattaya newspaper didn,t do this and this display sent out the wrong signals by giving the scum convicted creditabilty and an appearance of respectabilty for evil.

This is the core of what,s wrong in the present Thai government and the appearance that it,s o.k. for them to use there privlidged positions for self gain and not for the people who elected them.

This was the thread on the issue:

Sinking Lower than the Lowest

[sriracha john]

As near as I can tell, Sondhi's rally has flopped

Not sure how you define flop?

If you define it as a flop because hundreds weren't gunned down in a bloodbath? Because terror in the streets didn't reign supreme? Because martial law wasn't declared in BKK? If so, then I'm sorry you were disappointed, but I guess you're right and it was a "flop" using those standards.

If you define it as a flop because it failed to gather massive numbers of attendees and increased everyone's awareness of problems associated with the PM, than I think your definition is quite inaccurate.

As for Nation editors resigning... it seems that TRT Party Cabinet Members have a monopoly on that at present:

TRT Party member Sora-at Klinpratoom has submitted his resignation as Information and Communication Technology (ICT) minister marking the 2nd day in a row that a TRT Party Cabinet member has resigned.

[h90]

good to read that!

Thats exactly the point, could not write it better :-)

"He is our Prime Minister and if me and the Thai people decide that we dont want him any more then we will VOTE him out."

Ah, the charming innocence and beauty of the Thai people comes through again.... They have nearly as much simple-minded belief in democracy as George W. Bush, who rants about bringing democracy to the Middle East, then is horrified when Palestinians vote for Hamas. I'm afraid that Toxin has entrenched himself far too deeply in the Thai power structure, with all his friends and relatives in key positions, to ever be simply voted out. He has closely copied marvelous role models in perverting democracy such as Lee Kwan Yu of Singapore (his favorite), Mahathir Muhammed of Malaysia (a close second) and other democratic dictators like Hun Sen of Cambodia, the long-lasting Suharto of Indonesia, and of course the ultimate wet dreams of the dictatorial nutcases, the democratically-elected Hitler, the slimy kill-em-off approach of Stalin, the popularly-acclaimed madman Mao, the vicious outbursts of mass murder of Toxin's good buddy Than Shwe of Burma, and let us not forget the loser of the popular vote who was selected by his friends in the Supreme Court, Bush of the USA. In other words, folks, get rid of power-monsters like Toxin by any means at any opportunity, or be prepared to suffer at their hands for many, many years to come.

[backflip]

"increased everyone's awareness of problems associated with the PM"

Baloney. It was a totally inadequate emotional response. With few exceptions the people supported the PM before the demonstration still do, and vice versa. The fact that you personally don't like the PM is too bad.

[chownah]

I haven't heard yet, did Sondhi submit the petition to Prem and did Prem accept it? I thought that before the rally I read the Prem had decided to not accept the petition but to suggest that it be presented directly to some official closer to H.M. The King.

[Crushdepth]

Thaksin said any society that is led by a thug cannot be existed.

How many more of his own people have to die in extra-judicial killings before he qualifies as a thug?

[george]

I haven't heard yet, did Sondhi submit the petition to Prem and did Prem accept it? I thought that before the rally I read the Prem had decided to not accept the petition but to suggest that it be presented directly to some official closer to H.M. The King.

Interesting! What's your sources?

[sriracha john]

"increased everyone's awareness of problems associated with the PM"

Baloney. It was a totally inadequate emotional response. With few exceptions the people supported the PM before the demonstration still do, and vice versa. The fact that you personally don't like the PM is too bad.

You're sadly mistaken.

First, in what way was it an "inadequate emotional response?" What would have been adequate? To go on a murderous rampage? To incite carnage? If you've watched any of the rally there've been numerous, quite emotional, speeches. Have you watched much of the rally yourself? To me, it appears quite emotional... if for no other reason than it's been such a groundswell of anti-Thaksinism. It's been unprecedented during his tenure as PM.

Secondly, if several posts here are indication, quite a few Thais have shifted their opinions of the PM as reflected by the posts of foreigners who know them. If you know any Thais, I'm fairly certain you'd notice that sentiment is changing among them. Current declining opinion polls of the PM also reflect this. If you don't see this shift, either you're not in Thailand or you are so removed from the goings-on in this country, that you might as well not be here. Not only have Thais become more aware of the PM's shortcomings... if the several rally-related threads are any indication, many more foreigners are more aware of them as the thousands of views and posts on these threads attest to. People are now talking about his shortcomings whereas before threads regarding him were hardly noticed.

Lastly, and that is the one thing you are not mistaken about. I don't like ANY tyranical ruler. It's difficult to understand how someone like yourself can.

Edited February 5, 2006 by sriracha john

[Siripon]

Thaksin's share sale may have been legal but what galls educated Thais is his lack of ethics as the leader of Thailand in meticulously planning to avoid paying one baht. What an example to the tax paying citizens! As Suwann, his lawyer said in response to a question last week, he Suwann, was not going to talk about ethics that day.

Incidentally why was Thaksin not brave enough himself to face the questions from the press?.

This charge of unethical behaviour is going to haunt him for sure, repeatedly referred to by his growing number of opponents, but whether that will transfer into action at the ballot box or outside by the majority of Thais is a moot point knowing their political apathy.

[bulmercke]

ANOTHER ANTI-THAKSIN RALLY PLANNED FOR NEXT SATURDAY AT ROYAL PLAZA -

FEBRUARY 11

http://203.154.97.18/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=110677

Edited February 5, 2006 by bulmercke

[womble]

My mrs is going mad at the Thai tv news, flicking through all the channels she hasn't been able to find anything on it this morning.

The only coverage we could find on tv last night was a little every so often on mcot. We watched it on the internet link.

Incidently I thought the show was put on very well, you could tell that many of those there would just have gobe out of curiosity, although with the atmosphere created 'Thaksin Thaksin Thaksin, Ork bai, Ork Bai, Ork bai!!!

[marshbags]

Thanks for the Thread on the the Pattaya clan sucking up to the Chonburi mafia, sriracha.

At the time i could not fathom out or understand why not one single person had voiced disapproval to the Pattaya mails 2 page article.

I was totally unaware of T.Visa at the time.

I wanted to personally visit the offices but as a farang and not on the papers " approved photo call list " i,m wiser than to actually do it.

Now i know that you and T.V. members voiced exactly the offence i took from it.

Now i feel better about it so thanks to T.Visa for seeing it thru my eyes, as the saying goes.

Better still you actually named and shamed them which is what i would have done in my post but thought it was to sensitive and a possible threat to T.Visa, so didn,t.

Again i do not apologise for possibly going off topic re. the protest but the context of how it was developing for my humble opinion warranted it and shows again the standards set by the people with influence.

The protest was not a waste of time and if anyone thinks the international community are not taking notice then read and watch there comments and coverage of it all.

Outside Thailand in the places that matter F**s**ns name is totally discredited.

Had it not been for this event no one would have bothered reporting on it showing the discontent

of it all and showing the crook for what he is.

Also i do not think it is luck that stopped any outsiders from starting trouble, they obviously realise it would have made the situation deteriorate further and followed instructions from the " big kamoi in chief " who conveniently left the city.

marshbags

Edited February 5, 2006 by marshbags

[Phil Conners]

Other than Sondhi's own network ASTV only The Nation has had the balls to cover the event.

[womble]

interestingly it's front page of todays Thai Rath. Or at least on website, havn't seen the print version.