Low Season....how Was It For You?

[eyecatcher]

We are; lets say a week away from the start of high season. I just would like to hear your thoughts as either business owners, or retirees or intermittent visitors to Chiang Mai on how this low season has been for you.

Did you notice an increase in tourism from last year, was your foot count higher or lower; did you notice more younger travellers or couples...did you even spot a child?

For me I don’t have many years to compare, but what I have noticed is little major difference between the so called Nov-April high season and the May-Sept low season.

And this low season has been noticeably busier than last year. I have been surprisingly happy with it, but perhaps I have experienced a particularly bad high season, I don’t know.

Oct; Nov and Dec may well be different this year; because last year I remember such an influx of Bang cocky ones escaping the floods, which we will not see this year.; but the place is buzzing already. The negatives about Thailand have already been forgotten and the world economies finally are turning the corner again.

I am very positive about the future of Chiang Mai, last year we saw very few Chinese tourists, but July and August brought an abundance, there is definitely a Chinese invasion now; no doubt helped by the new flights from Macau and the irony is the Thais like them as little as farangs.

I was reading an old Citylife brochure from 10yr ago, they were predicting Chiang Mai as becoming the ASEAN hub for clinical and dental treatment “holidays”.

That time has now arrived, there are clinics and practices popping up everywhere, even in the Tesco/Big C…they obviously think they will have the customers to survive.

Hotels; Condos; and around 100 housing projects underway around the city .

So to business owners out there, I would say hang on to your lot, don’t sell out just yet, the share price of Chiang Mai is on the up, and to those of you retired and still enjoying it here you can still be proud to have made a great choice for what maybe your final destination.

[elektrified]

I agree with almost everything you said except "...the world economies finally are turning the corner again." I couldn't disagree more. Let's see how things look in 8-12 months.

[Beetlejuice]

Many of the business owners that I am on friendly terms with in Chiang Mai are saying that tourist patrons have been well on the decline over the years and for many of these businesses the high season is just not happening, especially those in the social and entertainment industries, such as, restaurants, bars, hotels and guest houses. I personally know of some guesthouse owners who are desperate to sell and even the good old night bazaar has lost it`s charm and no longer a tourist attraction.

According to what I see with my own eyes, on many evenings the town appears dead, almost like a sleepy English village on a Sunday night. Plus of course all the clampdowns, imposed early closing and so on hasn’t done much to increase visitors to the city. Perhaps Chiang Mai is a viable holidaying and retirement destination for the elderly, knackered and those on their last legs, but I can’t see anything here that would be of interest for the younger crowds.

This information is what I have heard and have assessed according to what I see, but to put this into true perspective, we need comments from the business owners themselves.

[hellodolly]

Many of the business owners that I am on friendly terms with in Chiang Mai are saying that tourist patrons have been well on the decline over the years and for many of these businesses the high season is just not happening, especially those in the social and entertainment industries, such as, restaurants, bars, hotels and guest houses. I personally know of some guesthouse owners who are desperate to sell and even the good old night bazaar has lost it`s charm and no longer a tourist attraction.

According to what I see with my own eyes, on many evenings the town appears dead, almost like a sleepy English village on a Sunday night. Plus of course all the clampdowns, imposed early closing and so on hasn’t done much to increase visitors to the city. Perhaps Chiang Mai is a viable holidaying and retirement destination for the elderly, knackered and those on their last legs, but I can’t see anything here that would be of interest for the younger crowds.

This information is what I have heard and have assessed according to what I see, but to put this into true perspective, we need comments from the business owners themselves.

Make up your mind first you let us think you know lots of business owners and they are all giving negative reports.

Then you say

"but to put this into true perspective, we need comments from the business owners themselves."

In other words don't believe you.

[cloudhopper]

Dead cat bounce.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Beetlejuice's Chiang Mai:

According to what I see with my own eyes, on many evenings the town appears dead, almost like a sleepy English village on a Sunday night. Perhaps Chiang Mai is a viable holidaying and retirement destination for the elderly, knackered and those on their last legs, but I can’t see anything here that would be of interest for the younger crowds.

Other people's Chiang Mai:

Chiang Mai has always had many feathers to its bow with its cultural riches, relative peacefulness, fantastic handicraft shopping, delicious food and proximity to many natural treasures. Changes are afoot however, with the city becoming somewhere to watch in the style stakes. Chic, Thai-style boutique hotels are popping up everywhere, and one look at the trendsetters setting up shop (and bars and restaurants), particularly in the Th Nimmanhaemin area, shows that the city’s identity is changing. Yet, the northern capital still manages to retain the relaxed, temple-sprinkled, cultural capital atmosphere of yore, alongside these new hip happenings. With its many and varied attractions, the days of Chiang Mai just being a quick stop off point before heading to the hills are long gone.

Chiang Mai in Thailand’s north is a city known for its ancient history, pristine mountain ranges and exciting elephant treks. Less known are all the after-sunset possibilities, when Chiang Mai’s Nimmanhaemin Road becomes the core of the city’s vibrant nightlife scene. Once well-known on the backpacker trail for little more than elephant treks and bars, has had a change of heart. Organic cafes, eco clothing boutiques and wellness retreats are popping up all over Thailand's northern city, inspired by its long-held traditions of arts and crafts.

Travelers' Choice® 2012 Winner

I remember walking through the old town in the evening in 1994, and there was nothing there. What a difference with today. I remember staying on Nimmanhaemin in 1994 and it had the Rincome Hotel at the top, a 7-Eleven in the middle and nothing else. I remember going to the Night Bazar in 1994 and getting annoyed real quick with the mercenary attitude and dull, mass produced junk. Compare that with the Sunday and Saturday Walking Steet markets today. I remember going for Western food in 1994 and there was JJ Restaurant, Dara, and some hotel restaurants. I remember going to bars in 1994 and there was the Bar Beer Center at Thapae, Spotlight, Cosy Corner and Bubble's and not much else. I remember going shopping and there was Central KSK and some derelict places like Tantraphan and Sor-3.

My God, what a difference compared to today! I know I made the right choice.

[TommoPhysicist]

I did a trawl along the tourist bars, up Moonmuang soy 1/2, into backpacker road and along, back down to Thaepae then up Loi Kroh ........ almost all the bars (20-30) empty, totally amazing.

Then over to the Thai student area of Santhitham and the bars around Chang Puak lake ....... packed as usual, but now forced to close at 11pm.

During the day dozens of Chinese tourists on rented m/cs trying to kill themselves with crazy driving.

The last two years the Chinese tourists have dramatically increased ..... but don't know where they go in the evenings.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

During the day dozens of Chinese tourists on rented m/cs trying to kill themselves with crazy driving.

The last two years the Chinese tourists have dramatically increased ..... but don't know where they go in the evenings.

So in other words, exactly like Western backpackers 15-20 years ago, including the motorbike suicide attempts and disappearing into their guesthouses at night.

I think successful businesses adapt to the huge increase in visitors from new markets, from other parts of Thailand and the general influx of people both visiting and living here. Unsuccessful businesses look out the door wondering where the old backpacker crowd went, or why sex tourist numbers have decreased. (or: 'not increased by as much as other groups')

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Not sure why late October is high season ? in my 10 years here as I understand it, late November is even pushing it as high season. More like mid December - Feb. When the weather is too cold in the west as well as Eu and schools are out with the holiday season

[rakchaingmai]

My low season was very busy as usual but you have to adapt in low season and do great discounts and get customers from the people that live here not just tourists .

[kaptainrob]

I know of quite a few people, mainly Aussie/Kiwi friends, who'd never heard of Chiang Mai until recently. Dental-tourism and attractions such as Flight of The Gibbon being written up in the media have brought enlightenment to those who thought Phuket was the ONLY tourist destination in Thailand. I do my bit to promote the region with photo's and articles posted on Forums.

Whilst many global economies teeter on the brink of collapse, Aussies are visiting the region, especially from mineral-rich Western Australia. Similarly, affluent Chinese tourists are visiting in droves though not spending as much as Europeans did on *cough* general entertainment.

I first visited CM only 3 years ago when bars were jumping, markets seething with tourists and Western financial outlook was far more positive than today.

Well managed businesses survive, some evolve/morph, others go under but Thai's seem to have a remarkable outlook upon life and keep on building as if there's no (problem coming) tomorrow. IMO, Chiang Mai is better off than anywhere else to survive and prosper. That's one reason we're here.

[elektrified]

Many of the business owners that I am on friendly terms with in Chiang Mai are saying that tourist patrons have been well on the decline over the years and for many of these businesses the high season is just not happening, especially those in the social and entertainment industries, such as, restaurants, bars, hotels and guest houses. I personally know of some guesthouse owners who are desperate to sell and even the good old night bazaar has lost it`s charm and no longer a tourist attraction.

According to what I see with my own eyes, on many evenings the town appears dead, almost like a sleepy English village on a Sunday night. Plus of course all the clampdowns, imposed early closing and so on hasn’t done much to increase visitors to the city. Perhaps Chiang Mai is a viable holidaying and retirement destination for the elderly, knackered and those on their last legs, but I can’t see anything here that would be of interest for the younger crowds.

This information is what I have heard and have assessed according to what I see, but to put this into true perspective, we need comments from the business owners themselves.

Rubbish. Get your head out of the box or get new glasses. Ever heard of Chinese tourists?

[elektrified]

During the day dozens of Chinese tourists on rented m/cs trying to kill themselves with crazy driving.

The last two years the Chinese tourists have dramatically increased ..... but don't know where they go in the evenings.

So in other words, exactly like Western backpackers 15-20 years ago, including the motorbike suicide attempts and disappearing into their guesthouses at night.

I think successful businesses adapt to the huge increase in visitors from new markets, from other parts of Thailand and the general influx of people both visiting and living here. Unsuccessful businesses look out the door wondering where the old backpacker crowd went, or why sex tourist numbers have decreased. (or: 'not increased by as much as other groups')

+1

[elektrified]

Whilst many global economies teeter on the brink of collapse, Aussies are visiting the region, especially from mineral-rich Western Australia. Similarly, affluent Chinese tourists are visiting in droves though not spending as much as Europeans did on *cough* general entertainment.

Exactly. Changing markets. The Chinese aren't spending a couple hundred Baht on drinks in bars and on whores. Instead, they are spending real money on nice hotels, renting out swimming pools for the day for their use only, chartered bus and mini-van trips around the region, stopping and buying local OTOP products, as well as expensive items like jewelry and so forth. They are putting money in the pockets of the people who own this country and said people couldn't be happier with the arrangement. Yes, some farang-owned businesses who prospered from the days of predominately Western tourism in Thailand are now suffering, but they need to adapt to the changing times.

[eyecatcher]

Last year my high season started 3rd week october, a 3 fold increase on the previous few weeks., but I dont rely on Western Tourists, they are cheap charlies and I couldnt survive on them.

However last year the Aussie/NZ dental tourist trade did me great favours; guest houses local to me managed to get themselves bookings for travellers with dental appointments; GHs were full of patients with 50-300k bht in their pockets.

A little effort and guest house owners in the city can take advantge of this easily.

I target the Japs, the koreans, the malaysians, the Thais and the Chinese now. They have the deep pockets and you will rarely find them in the 250bt a night guesthouses; these new tourists are tipping in those multiples.

The Thai bars around Santitham/Nimmen are heaving every night...but I have noticed many come and go as quickly;..as beer is sold at 10bt above 7/11..but in the evenings I also dont see the Japs/chinese/koreans drinking in these lower class outside bar venues....its probably not recommended if they are on the golf course the next day.

I am sorry some of you dont seem to see influx of visitors increasing; maybe there is a shift now into the more affluent areas. Just hope the old city doesnt become a museum.

[lizardtongue]

I think it would be fair to say that most bar owners are happy to have their business 'pay for them to be here' very few really make 'big money'. The local Gov. apparently wants Chiangmai to be a cultural city and are attempting to close late night bars etc.

Most business owners will never admit to having a bad low or high season.

it wasn't long ago that retirees from Korea were targeted, that seems to have dies a death?

Personally I think that Thailand will 'tick over' regardless some resorts ticking over better than others, many Westerners that I have spoken to still consider Thailand a cheap place to take a vacation.

[Rancid]

Whilst many global economies teeter on the brink of collapse, Aussies are visiting the region, especially from mineral-rich Western Australia. Similarly, affluent Chinese tourists are visiting in droves though not spending as much as Europeans did on *cough* general entertainment.

Exactly. Changing markets. The Chinese aren't spending a couple hundred Baht on drinks in bars and on whores. Instead, they are spending real money on nice hotels, renting out swimming pools for the day for their use only, chartered bus and mini-van trips around the region, stopping and buying local OTOP products, as well as expensive items like jewelry and so forth. They are putting money in the pockets of the people who own this country and said people couldn't be happier with the arrangement. Yes, some farang-owned businesses who prospered from the days of predominately Western tourism in Thailand are now suffering, but they need to adapt to the changing times.

Chinese tourists are largely owned by the tour compnaies, lock stock and barrell, eg Standard Tour. They are bused around to expensive places that kick back to the tour operators. What rates do you imagine they pay in bulk at hotels desperate to fill rooms? They rent out the pools so they don't have to share with Thais or us. They are profitable, but until they break the group travel scene, only to the tour operators. See if someone will tell you how much they have to discount a ticket to the operators to get those groups in.

[TommoPhysicist]

Chinese tourists are largely owned by the tour compnaies, lock stock and barrell, eg Standard Tour. They are bused around to expensive places that kick back to the tour operators. What rates do you imagine they pay in bulk at hotels desperate to fill rooms? They rent out the pools so they don't have to share with Thais or us. They are profitable, but until they break the group travel scene, only to the tour operators. See if someone will tell you how much they have to discount a ticket to the operators to get those groups in.

You are way out of date. These guys and girls are out in groups of 3 and 4 on scooters.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's common for a new group of market to get in with group tours first. I remember seeing several busloads of Western group tours every night; that's virtually at an end now. It's Chinese now in the buses (though indeed also more independent tourists from Asia, which is good.).

Main question: we hardly get any Russians or Middle Easterners, compared to Pattaya, Phuket and Bangkok. Not saying I mind, but I do wonder why that is. Middle Easterners I think appreciate the less lethal temperatures, which would make Chiang Mai a good choice just about any time of the year other than April. Russians I guess mostly want a beach.

[DavidOxon]

Seems to be Chinese Malays, and Taiwanese making up the majority of the tour busses at my local... AND they bend over backwards to keep them happy, Chinese food, Chinese music, chop sticks, lazy susans and a Chinese singer! Normal tip is 100baht

[elektrified]

Seems to be Chinese Malays, and Taiwanese making up the majority of the tour busses at my local... AND they bend over backwards to keep them happy, Chinese food, Chinese music, chop sticks, lazy susans and a Chinese singer! Normal tip is 100baht

That should dispel the theory by some on here that the Chinese are cheap and don't want to pay much money.

There was a series on BBC and CNN "Amazing Thailand" recently. Thai business owners interviewed in Phuket claimed Chinese families on holiday in Phuket spend as much as 50% more than white, Western tourists in the same group (families on holiday in Phuket). Ministry of Tourism officials seemed to be in agreement. Only saying what I saw on TV.

[hellodolly]

It's common for a new group of market to get in with group tours first. I remember seeing several busloads of Western group tours every night; that's virtually at an end now. It's Chinese now in the buses (though indeed also more independent tourists from Asia, which is good.).

Main question: we hardly get any Russians or Middle Easterners, compared to Pattaya, Phuket and Bangkok. Not saying I mind, but I do wonder why that is. Middle Easterners I think appreciate the less lethal temperatures, which would make Chiang Mai a good choice just about any time of the year other than April. Russians I guess mostly want a beach.

I think some of the tourists in the group tours are using it as a way to find different places to come back to for a holiday on their own.

[uptheos]

Not a good season for some, very unusual to offer a sale prior to the high season starting.

I notice today that both The Rabbit Bar on Loi Kroh and Spicy Bollywood Indian restaurant, are both up for sale.http://www.chiangmainews.com/classifieds_job/list.php

Also, there is a glut of accommodation for sale or rent everywhere.

[eyecatcher]

Not a good season for some, very unusual to offer a sale prior to the high season starting.

Dont forget the other main reason for businesses for sale...the end of the partnership/relationship. a farang is quite often left high and dry when that "Thai business partner/gf" decides you have reached your expiry date.

the opportunity to sell is possibly the luckiest opportunity a farang will have to recoup some capital....otherwise he walks away...with nothing

and what better time for the Thai partner to take over....start of high season