Pheu Thai Outshines Democrats: Poll

[Anon999]

Two-thirds praised Pheu Thai for responding quickly to people's problems, while 58.9 per cent frowned on the Democrats for indulging only in politicking.

I wonder how the respondents expect the Democrats to respond to their problems given that the Democrats aren't in a position to actually do anything? What does any opposition do besides "politicking"?

Huh? Are you in effect suggesting that people being polled favour the government because the opposition don't have power.Tell that to Dave Cameron.

British voters are generally rather more clued up on their politicians and the governments performance and they are not paid to vote. Also certain large sections of the voters are not provided with populist policies that are just 'pie in the sky'.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Anon999

[jonclark]

The usual suspects - always the same ones - twist and turn, dishonest, abusive and intellectually bankrupt by turns.They simply cannot accept the reality that the government scores well with the Thai people and that the opposition perfomance is mediocre.Their laughable excuses do provide a measure of entertainment.Actually the more intelligent and perceptive Democrats like Korn understand the problem rather well and it will be interesting to see how his efforts to detoxify his party will succeed.

Very true one of the reasons (but not exclusively) that PTP do so well is because the Dems are not up to scratch. That doesn't mean PTP are far from it!

The dems need to get out on th road and meet the people on a daily and continual basis and put themselves out, get their message out, represent local people on local issues that affect them, if that means they have to go into the heartland of the reds and be intimidated, they need to man up and do just that.

As cold hearted as I might sound after a few beatings of Dem canvassers the powers that be in PTP will start to get very nervous, because as the dems disastrously found out political or state sponsored violence (and i use that term loosely here) against the people = lost votes. Thai folk can't stomach it anymore. And they will be eventually left alone.

As i said the dems need to get out and meet the people at the local level and work with local people to find solutions to their problems rather than roll out their solutions from Bangkok without knowing what the problem is to begin with. In effect they have to copy PTP strategy, go grassroots farmer style and hope they can split some of the PTP vote so that after the next election PTP will have a coalition government as opposed to an outright majority this time (although PTP has included other parties in its government to add value to reconciliation). If as is often the case in Thai politics coalition governments don't last long (and it is always a messy collapse) and the Dems continue to meet the people they maybe in a stronger position 5-6 years down the line to get back in.

Interesting and perceptive.Though few would credit it, I would like to see a resurgence in Democrat strength and your suggestions form part of that process.The hard part is to accept that Abhisit, talented but fatally flawed, must be ditched and the party must unharness itself from the army, feudalists and other reactionaries.

Agreed. Abhisit is fatally tarnished in the eyes of many voters, (in a very similar vein to Taksin) and should step down, because like taksin many people simply won't accept him in the top job. As such the Dems will never get out of the blocks in an election with him at the helm and gives PTP a huge advantage at the polls. The dems need a new 'clean' leader. which is what PTP did when they brought in Yingluck.

This would be the best time for him to step down for the dems as it gives them two / three years to gather themselves and put into practice a new strategy and direction with a new face at the fore. And figuratively speaking puts to rest or closes the chapter on the mess of 2010.

I'm not sure about how the dems (or for that matter PTP) would unharness themselves from the army, police etc. as since day one of Thai democracy PMs have been hell bent on putting their man in at the top of these positions and removing the man put their before by the previous government and thereby instantly coupling themselves politically to these institutions as soon as the votes have been counted.

The fact that many of the Dems backers are rich 'elites' is just part of politics. They are free to back who they choose and no political party is going to say no (at least not public ally) to potential backers, funders etc. Its would be madness. Imagine PTP saying it didn't want the farmers vote!!

Edited October 22, 2012 by jonclark

[chuang]

Field day for the anti PTP...

[AleG]

The usual suspects - always the same ones - twist and turn, dishonest, abusive and intellectually bankrupt by turns.They simply cannot accept the reality that the government scores well with the Thai people and that the opposition perfomance is mediocre.Their laughable excuses do provide a measure of entertainment.Actually the more intelligent and perceptive Democrats like Korn understand the problem rather well and it will be interesting to see how his efforts to detoxify his party will succeed.

Moral bankruptcy, I think, is to accept the numbers as a validation of the ethics and performance of the government. A government that is lead by a criminal fugitive, with policies that are on the fast track to bankrupting (financially in this case) the country, that openly disregards the law and stuffed full of gangsters and family members of the previously mentioned criminal fugitive.

But a poll gives them a higher score, so that makes it alright, yes?

It's not a question of making it "alright": it's simply a demonstration of public opinion, the incompetence of the Democrats and the superior political skills of the current government.

Incidentally your reference to policies likely to bankrupt the country presumably refers to the rice price support programme.It's not a programme that I believe sensible in the long term but it is financial illiteracy to suggest it is ruinous.

Perhaps, then, the democrats should adapt some of the PTP/Thaksin tactics. For example destroying Yingluck's image by engineering a massive protest that results in tenths of deaths. Or unsustainable populist promises that you don't even have to fulfill (I, for one, I'm still waiting for the flat 20B fare for metro and Skytrain), or perhaps they should blatantly bend electoral laws and regulations, or giving Abhisit his own, more photogenic sock puppet, perhaps Miss Thailand? Or perhaps they should avoid any sort of public debate, unscripted discussions or transparency in government, that seems to gain public trust somehow.

They certainly have many options to even the odds, provided they simply forget about doing what is best for the country as a whole and only concentrate in winning elections.

[rubl]

Interesting and perceptive.Though few would credit it, I would like to see a resurgence in Democrat strength and your suggestions form part of that process.The hard part is to accept that Abhisit, talented but fatally flawed, must be ditched and the party must unharness itself from the army, feudalists and other reactionaries.

The equally hard fact is that Thaksin c.s., RTP, feudalists and other reactionariess must be ditched before Thailand will have a chance to be come more than a Democracy in name.

K. Thaksin may be talented, but equally fatally flawed. In his case mostly by his own actions. In Abhisit's case partially through own actions, largely by many years of a hatespeech campaign hammering on a fake tape with 'kill me some red-shirts'.

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse"

[p_brownstone]

If the Democrats were prepared to epouse blatantly Populist - and unsustainable - policies such as the present Rice Pledging scheme etc. etc. they would undoubtedly score much higher in any Poll of the great unwashed.

Honesty and having Princlples will always mean low approval ratings amongst the Red hordes however.

Patrick

[siampolee]

Incidentally your reference to policies likely to bankrupt the country presumably refers to the rice price support programme.It's not a programme that I believe sensible in the long term but it is financial illiteracy to suggest it is ruinous.

There can be no suggestion that the Ponzi rice scam scheme is ruinous.

it is fact an ,''odds on favourite,'' that it will, and is in fact as we read and write in this forum doing great damage to the farming sector and the financial sector of this country in both the short term and the long term.

Edited October 22, 2012 by siampolee

[jayboy]

There is very little difference in voter psychology anywhere.The suggestion that vote buying in Thailand has had any significant influence on outcome has been discredited.However it is perfectly true that voters are self interested and elect politicians who they perceive will improve their economic position.

In the case of the pampered Thai middle class this means supporting parties that for have decades ensured urban areas received priority in health, education and infrastructure.Frankly when I hear these people complaining about rural populism I am sickened by their hypocrisy and selfishness.The outrageous priority given to the urban middle class is the most objectionable form of vote buying.

[rubl]

There is very little difference in voter psychology anywhere.The suggestion that vote buying in Thailand has had any significant influence on outcome has been discredited.However it is perfectly true that voters are self interested and elect politicians who they perceive will improve their economic position.

In the case of the pampered Thai middle class this means supporting parties that for have decades ensured urban areas received priority in health, education and infrastructure.Frankly when I hear these people complaining about rural populism I am sickened by their hypocrisy and selfishness.The outrageous priority given to the urban middle class is the most objectionable form of vote buying.

I'm not convinced that 'vote buying' no longer has any influence. It may no longer lead to surprises, but simply consolidate positions.

As for the 'rural populism' after years of 'urban populism', well ... Apart from politics there're also the minor aspects of industry, economy, trade, etc.. A balance would be nice! Mind you most European countries and the UK have had similar issues and maybe still have

[wxpwzrd]

That is like saying Hepatitis outshines Herpes.

[whybother]

Two-thirds praised Pheu Thai for responding quickly to people's problems, while 58.9 per cent frowned on the Democrats for indulging only in politicking.

I wonder how the respondents expect the Democrats to respond to their problems given that the Democrats aren't in a position to actually do anything? What does any opposition do besides "politicking"?

Huh? Are you in effect suggesting that people being polled favour the government because the opposition don't have power.Tell that to Dave Cameron.

I was referring to a particular question. Not seeing the whole questionnaire, I can't "in effect" suggest how that question affects anything.

[jayboy]

There is very little difference in voter psychology anywhere.The suggestion that vote buying in Thailand has had any significant influence on outcome has been discredited.However it is perfectly true that voters are self interested and elect politicians who they perceive will improve their economic position.

In the case of the pampered Thai middle class this means supporting parties that for have decades ensured urban areas received priority in health, education and infrastructure.Frankly when I hear these people complaining about rural populism I am sickened by their hypocrisy and selfishness.The outrageous priority given to the urban middle class is the most objectionable form of vote buying.

I'm not convinced that 'vote buying' no longer has any influence. It may no longer lead to surprises, but simply consolidate positions.

As for the 'rural populism' after years of 'urban populism', well ... Apart from politics there're also the minor aspects of industry, economy, trade, etc.. A balance would be nice! Mind you most European countries and the UK have had similar issues and maybe still have

I think that's a fair comment on vote buying.It goes without saying that it should be discouraged and if possible stamped out wherever it occurs.

Leaving populism on one side, it's surprising how much common ground there is between the two main parties including industry, economy,trade which you mention but also on financial management.In part this is because there is actually little blue water between the two on these matters but also because of the higher bureaucracy which provides continuity and generally high standards.Of course if the radical redshirt element split off and somehow achieved power all this might change - for the worse.Then we would have something to worry about in terms of damaging Chavez type populism.

Almost all countries as you suggest experience this tension between the haves and the have nots.Careful navigation is important as you again suggest.Thailand should understand it's not a world to itself and there are lessons to be learned from within the region and outside.There is no such thing as Thai exceptionalism.

Edited October 22, 2012 by jayboy

[asiawatcher]

C'mon guys, ABAC is unquestionable for fair and true results...

[DocN]

I find these poll- thingies and the following debates great! There is another poll, about BKK- taxis being the 5th best in the world. Living in Thailand since 5 years now...if they are the 5th best, I personally would not like to come near the 5th worst!

Other on the other hand, find Bangkok- taxis delightful, the drivers knowledgeable and the cars safe. Everyone to their own liking.

To me, a poll between PT and the Dems is like a poll between plague and cholera: which deadly disase do you favor. But, hey...I am a farang...so no one cares anyway, what I think.

My take on this poll though: PT has the better populists in their rows, who even can sell all the broken promises in some way to the 63% of the people. Dems can't make up for that.

But one thing that always makes me angry, is when supporters of the Dems (or better: enemies of the PT) come and accuse the voters that actually voted for PT as the uneducated masses, who are simply not able to think straight and therefore always pick the wrong guys or the vote- buying.

Vote buying: everybody does it, everybody tries it...even the one who condamn it, when PT obviously is "better" a it.

I would let that point stand, if ANY PARTY would REALLY be for free and democratic elections- which excludes vote- buying, the village- chief to tell everyone who to vote for etc. ...but they just don't!

And just because someone is a "better" ( more successful) thieve than you are...you are still a thieve.

And to the "uneducated"- point: it was all good and fine, when the uneducated voted for the "right" kind of politician, wasn't it?

That's why they were kept uneducated for centuries: because the sheep just did, what the sheep had to do!

And no one -of the now crying and complaining- gave a flying frog about educating the masses.

But now...the people you left uneducated for centuries... are voting for the "wrong" guys and you complain about, how stupid they are?!

"Som nam na" comes to mind!

[khunken]

I find these poll- thingies and the following debates great! There is another poll, about BKK- taxis being the 5th best in the world. Living in Thailand since 5 years now...if they are the 5th best, I personally would not like to come near the 5th worst!

Other on the other hand, find Bangkok- taxis delightful, the drivers knowledgeable and the cars safe. Everyone to their own liking.

To me, a poll between PT and the Dems is like a poll between plague and cholera: which deadly disase do you favor. But, hey...I am a farang...so no one cares anyway, what I think.

My take on this poll though: PT has the better populists in their rows, who even can sell all the broken promises in some way to the 63% of the people. Dems can't make up for that.

But one thing that always makes me angry, is when supporters of the Dems (or better: enemies of the PT) come and accuse the voters that actually voted for PT as the uneducated masses, who are simply not able to think straight and therefore always pick the wrong guys or the vote- buying.

Vote buying: everybody does it, everybody tries it...even the one who condamn it, when PT obviously is "better" a it.

I would let that point stand, if ANY PARTY would REALLY be for free and democratic elections- which excludes vote- buying, the village- chief to tell everyone who to vote for etc. ...but they just don't!

And just because someone is a "better" ( more successful) thieve than you are...you are still a thieve.

And to the "uneducated"- point: it was all good and fine, when the uneducated voted for the "right" kind of politician, wasn't it?

That's why they were kept uneducated for centuries: because the sheep just did, what the sheep had to do!

And no one -of the now crying and complaining- gave a flying frog about educating the masses.

But now...the people you left uneducated for centuries... are voting for the "wrong" guys and you complain about, how stupid they are?!

"Som nam na" comes to mind!

I think the educated/uneducated theory of voting preferences is rubbish. What has happened to the people of Isan is that they have been brainwashed. PTP is very good at organising (& paying) the local leaders to keep their area 'red'. An extension of that is the red-shirt villages where dissent is not allowed. The Dems ahve been unable - partly through their own fault & partly through threats - to make any dent in that region which really decides the outcome of elections.

Abhisit is too mild in dealing with political realities. The Dems need someone of Chalerm's ilk (but please not him) to play down & dirty with the PTP heavies. Having said that, if only the PTP could make a Shin-disconnect decision & become a political party rather than a family-run business, more Thai's would find them palatable (& so would more Farangs, for what it's worth).

[GeorgeO]

Based upon those areas where the PTP gained almost two thirds of the vote, including better public policies and rapid response to the needs of the people, I can only conclude that the entire poll is a load of b****cks!

[Noistar]

has to be brainwashing doesn't it.... it just has to be.

any thai person who prefers ptp to the dems must be brainwashed... or maybe, just maybe, they don't agree with your opinion.

anyway as animatic professes... any competeny pollster can skew a result anyway he wants to.

it's general elections that count, democracy, the decision of the people... i'm sure everyone agrees with that.

I don't.

What matters is the Democratic actions performed by the democratically elected Government AFTER the election

[yourauntbob]

63,8% of the population must have been brainwashed.

here comes the "Pheu Thai has been bought" brigade

Edited October 22, 2012 by yourauntbob

[nurofiend]

has to be brainwashing doesn't it.... it just has to be.

any thai person who prefers ptp to the dems must be brainwashed... or maybe, just maybe, they don't agree with your opinion.

anyway as animatic professes... any competeny pollster can skew a result anyway he wants to.

it's general elections that count, democracy, the decision of the people... i'm sure everyone agrees with that.

I don't.

What matters is the Democratic actions performed by the democratically elected Government AFTER the election

you don't? now there's a surprise.

[BrianCR]

63,8% of the population must have been brainwashed.

Bull sh** 63.8% understand Thailand obviously you don't!

[BrianCR]

63,8% of the population must have been brainwashed.

here comes the "Pheu Thai has been bought" brigade

Good comment

[BrianCR]

This is just a poll, 70% of this country really aren't well informed enough to be grading the govt, Peua Thai are overwhelmingly the better party at winning the hearts and minds of the poor and being swift and effective with it, but it's done using the tax money mostly of those who don't support it and make most the financial contribution to the state. The populist policies of PT are brilliant for winning elections but terrible for public economics, riddled with wastage and corruption.

Are you saying that the democrats are better, or that you don't understand life?

[TruthEyes]

The evidence tells you that the thai people are impressed with democracy, and have totally and utterly rejected the coup ideolagy of the dems and their backers.

[Noistar]

has to be brainwashing doesn't it.... it just has to be.

any thai person who prefers ptp to the dems must be brainwashed... or maybe, just maybe, they don't agree with your opinion.

anyway as animatic professes... any competeny pollster can skew a result anyway he wants to.

it's general elections that count, democracy, the decision of the people... i'm sure everyone agrees with that.

I don't.

What matters is the Democratic actions performed by the democratically elected Government AFTER the election

you don't? now there's a surprise.

What's a surprise?

That I believe there is more to Democracy than elections? Or perhaps it's because I believe any elected ruling party should put country before party?

The Red drone of 'we were elected by the democratic process so we can do anything'.

Now there's a surprise

[jayboy]

has to be brainwashing doesn't it.... it just has to be.

any thai person who prefers ptp to the dems must be brainwashed... or maybe, just maybe, they don't agree with your opinion.

anyway as animatic professes... any competeny pollster can skew a result anyway he wants to.

it's general elections that count, democracy, the decision of the people... i'm sure everyone agrees with that.

I don't.

What matters is the Democratic actions performed by the democratically elected Government AFTER the election

you don't? now there's a surprise.

What's a surprise?

That I believe there is more to Democracy than elections? Or perhaps it's because I believe any elected ruling party should put country before party?

The Red drone of 'we were elected by the democratic process so we can do anything'.

Now there's a surprise

Not sure what is meant by the red drone but as far as the current government is concerned most of the evidence suggests,at least on some matters , it is extremely inhibited by checks and balances / very far from being an elected dictatorship though inevitably that is part of the fascist critique - as it always is among those that loathe democracy.

[Gonzo the Face]

The evidence tells you that the thai people are impressed with democracy, and have totally and utterly rejected the coup ideolagy of the dems and their backers.

Sorry I have to disagree.

What this poll shows me , if it reflects honest and true results, is that most Thai people have no idea what democracy is supposed to do for a country. It reflects , to me, someone who is drowning in an ocean , then refuses assistance from a lifeboat due the fact the the seat cushions do not look comfortable for their personal use.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Gonzo the Face

[Noistar]

I don't.

What matters is the Democratic actions performed by the democratically elected Government AFTER the election

you don't? now there's a surprise.

What's a surprise?

That I believe there is more to Democracy than elections? Or perhaps it's because I believe any elected ruling party should put country before party?

The Red drone of 'we were elected by the democratic process so we can do anything'.

Now there's a surprise

Not sure what is meant by the red drone but as far as the current government is concerned most of the evidence suggests,at least on some matters , it is extremely inhibited by checks and balances / very far from being an elected dictatorship though inevitably that is part of the fascist critique - as it always is among those that loathe democracy.

And there was me thinking the 'checks and balances' were in danger of being removed by the re-writing of the constitution.

[Noistar]

The evidence tells you that the thai people are impressed with democracy, and have totally and utterly rejected the coup ideolagy of the dems and their backers.

Sorry I have to disagree.

What this poll shows me , if it reflects honest and true results, is that most Thai people have no idea what democracy is supposed to do for a country. It reflects , to me, someone who is drowning in an ocean , then refuses assistance from a lifeboat due the fact the the seat cushions do not look comfortable for their personal use.

I'm not even sure a substantial majority of the population were aware there had been a coup. Thais seem to have a pleasantly laid-back approach - life goes on, does it affect me? No?

Ask a thai worker what their politics are and you'll more often than not get the answer of a shrug of the shoulders, and 'im a builder'. Living in CM I thought I was surrounded by red supporters. Nope. Just a few red flags waving outside shops and on motorbikes.

As you say, why do they need a lifebelt, they're not drowning

Edited November 12, 2012 by Noistar

[Rich teacher]

I'm afraid it's more than just Abhisit being fatally flawed, it's the whole Democrat(?) party. They simply can't reverse the opinions of the majority of the Thai electorate regarding their actions, i.e;

1. Being the major player in the Anupong coalition and trying to pass it off as normal parliamentary procedure
   
2. After being faced with massive numbers of protesters regarding 1. not apologising and standing down
   
3. Shooting their own people
   
4. Vilifying the most popular PM in Thai history in the quest of political gain to the detriment of society
   

The only option now is to disband, shed those associated with the behaviour noted above, i.e. AV, ST, Rasima, Wallpaper, the Blue Sky musketeers, etc and form a new party that actually offers real policy alternatives as opposed to whinging, mud-slinging, finger pointing and throwing their toys out of the cot.

[rubl]

I'm afraid it's more than just Abhisit being fatally flawed, it's the whole Democrat(?) party. They simply can't reverse the opinions of the majority of the Thai electorate regarding their actions, i.e;

1. Being the major player in the Anupong coalition and trying to pass it off as normal parliamentary proceduce
   
2. After being faced with massive numbers of protesters regarding 1. not apologising and standing down
   
3. Shooting their own people
   
4. Vilifying the most popular PM in Thai history in the quest of political gain to the detriment of society
   

The only option now is to disband, shed those associated with the behaviour noted above, i.e. AV, ST, Rasima, Wallpaper, the Blue Sky musketeers, etc and form a new party that actually offers real policy alternatives as opposed to whinging, mud-slinging, finger pointing and throwing their toys out of the cot.

You're somewhat off, dear rich teacher. Now I can see you signed up only a short time ago, but you might have read posts here for a while longer. It maybe you just looked at other news sources. Some seem to be somewhat flawed though.

For your information there has never been an 'Anupong coalition' forming a government. Only going back to December 2007 we had coalitions with the late k. Samak, k. Somchai, k. Abhisit, but no k. Anupong. I'm afraid that makes point 2. invalid, sorry. Point 3 is an interesting one, especially in Thai history, the late k. Samak really had people in an uproar when he said only one died in 1976. As for vilifying the 'most popular' PM, not sure who is doing that? Also who do you mean, maybe the first PM Thailand ever had, PM Phraya Manopakorn Nititada. June 12th this year the UDD celebrated the transition to a democracy he helped start. ( http://www.pattayama...democracy-13988 ). Probably not the late Samak, even the UDD called the 1976 Thammasat Event a Massacre ( http://thairedshirts...es-udd-leaders/ ).

In all your post seems to reflect your opinion without real proof there's much truth or value in it. Now that's my opinion, of course

PS still looking for that missing Kray Triplet or might it be a quadruplet by now?