Companies Charging Employees For Their Mistakes

[dairy queen]

Today at my gym I had a discussion with one of the managers over my wife's recent membership extension. They made a [THB 4,000] 'mistake' on the charge [they say] and got her to pay an additional fee to make up the difference. I questioned this, and they then said that if we didn't pay the difference the money would come out of the sales person's salary.

This can't be legal surely? Does anyone know the Thai Labor law on this issue?

Thanks for any replies. It's a little issue, but it bugs me enough to want to know if they're breaking the law on this or not... Frankly, it seems to me that after she made the first payment a contract had been made and legally they couldn't ask for further payment in any case...

[IamNotaNumber]

Nothing that employers in Thailand (Thai or farang) might do to their employees would surprise me, in the same way that I would not be surprised by what other sorts of trickery any landlord or lawyer or real estate agent or other businessman might try to pull here.

People doing business in Thailand tend to be dishonest, greedy and unpleasant at the best of times.

[topt]

People doing business in Thailand tend to be dishonest, greedy and unpleasant at the best of times.

A bit of a broad generalisation and I would imagine offensive to many business owners here on TV

To the OP - no idea if it is legal but it is not uncommon and what worker is going to complain as they would probably lose their job. I have heard about this happening a lot across Asia especially in entertainment venues where if a customer doesn't pay the bill for some reason the amount will be deducted from staff pay or tips.

[IamNotaNumber]

A bit of a broad generalisation and I would imagine offensive to many business owners here on TV

Can't say I'm too bothered about that. My general opinion of farangs I have met who run their own businesses in Thailand is very low indeed. I'm sure they dont think much of me either and I am suitably concerned about that too.

[chiang mai]

It's a fairly standard practise here, especially where handling money is concerned, that's why many cashiers and similar have to post a bond before they can start work.

[saengsureeya]

AFAIK, it's common practice to cut employee's salaries for every bloody mistake they make.

OK, in most cases there will be written warning, but that warning mostly includes a cut of a minor amount of money (well, that's minor for us).

I asked why that happened and the answer was: "You can only teach Thai people with cutting salary!"

They may have a point, but if it is legal? Dunno!

[CaptHaddock]

I understand that it is routine here. The only actual case I know of is a young woman employee of a computer retailer who ordered the wrong model laptop for a client. She had to buy the laptop herself at a cost that was a significant hardship for her because her boss insisted. AS it happens, the boss was her own sister.

[manarak]

There are many cheaters in Thai workforce.

Thais don't only cheat foreigners, they also cheat each other quite often.

If the "mistakes" weren't sanctioned by cutting the salary, the cheaters would abuse the situation.

[WhizBang]

This can't be legal surely? Does anyone know the Thai Labor law on this issue?

Legal? I don't know, but certainly common practice, especially in the service industries.

One time I ordered a dish at a restaurant, but when it came it was not what I expected and I didn't want it. When the bill came, the waiter had taken it off the bill. I told him to put it back on as it was my mistake, not his. He was very relieved.

I think it's an absolutely rotten practice designed to take advantage of the employee. It should be illegal. But, even if illegal, would it ever be enforced? Any employee who complained would most likely just get fired.

[asiawatcher]

It's no different from Thai's charging their employees for damage to vehicles in their care. My brother in law had his car stolen and he paid about 30,000 Baht which was his monthly salary. Company was CP Group.

[BrianCR]

Happens all the time and gets passed on to the customer - a few years ago I booked a domestic flight with Thai Orient and was charged 1,700 baht, the next day i had a phone call from them telling me the fare should have been something like 2000 odd baht. I said that I wasn't paying as i could fly another airline cheaper and so if I'd have known I wouldn't have booked in the first place - the girl said sulkily that she would pay the difference. Next day i turned up at the airport to catch the flight only to find that my ticket had been cancelled. I flew with another airline and later phoned Thai Orient to make a formal complaint in that they cancelled my ticket without even informing me! I was told to send an Email - I sent 10 and they were not polite enough to even acknowledge that they received them!

[marshbags]

My stepson collects money on loans customers have borrowed from a farang businessman.

Only two weeks ago he was rammed up the rear of his M.Bike by a speeding van and finished up unconscious in the ditch.

Fortunately he was found and taken to hospital.

For info purposes his employer is based in Bangkok and has a Thai manager who lives in the Chonburi area who is his local boss.

Some time after he woke up on the and and some time later, on getting his faculties back, discovered his takings of 35,000 baht and oddments had been taken from his pockets.

Fortunately he has made a good recovery apart from grazes and heavy bruising and reported for work yesterday.

His local boss told him he would have to pay back all the money that was stolen.

My step son was as you can imagine very upset and was shocked to sat the least.

Anyway he told his boss he thought it was wrong, especially as IMHO he was possibly targetted and he was also thinking along these lines.

The backstud confirmed he was serious and it had the blessing of the farang in Bangkok.

As he couldn,t pay it in one go asked to repay it monthly, with a definite no reply.

He,s worked for them over 4 years by the way but it didn,t matter one bit.

Anyway he told him he would get the money together and was ceasing his employment ASAP

This morning he paid the 35k and told him he was finished with them....would you believe, he asked him to stay as he was a good honest worker but would not reconsider penalising him for the stolen money ?????

What hard necked Evil Bastard he is.

marshbags

P.S.

Sure it is hard life for many employees here, I thought i,d experienced most things re nasty worker boss relationships similar to this. but obviously I am still learning how low some of them can be.

Fortunately many bosses are kind and understanding and show appreciation towards their staff, sadly these two aren,t and do not.

He,s now looking for alternative employment ( honest and within the law ) and I have no doubt he will ( hopefully ) soon find it, he deserves better as he is a good lad.

Sometimes Thailand culture towards the less priviliged really pisses me off more than usual, this is one of such time.

Edited November 2, 2012 by marshbags

[miksguevara]

so is it legal for a farang to be a money lender? surely not?

[chiang mai]

so is it legal for a farang to be a money lender? surely not?

Of course not, Marshbags talked of his stepson!

[Bill999]

so is it legal for a farang to be a money lender? surely not?

Of course not, Marshbags talked of his stepson!

...who worked as a collector for a farang businessman who lends money!

[I Like Thai]

I would pay the remainder of the fee if I was happy that a genuine mistake had been made by the employee. I would leave it at that.

[USNret]

Back to the OP's question, sounds to me like more of a scam (on him) than an employer/employee issue. Taking advantage of his (or the wife's) good nature, not wanting a poor employee to be stuck with a 4000 baht fee, the customer ends up paying it instead.

I have never joined a Thai gym, but observing how they operate I see no chance that they would make a "mistake" of this nature. There are several layers of management review; it's not like some lone employee writes a contract, gets it signed & funded with no one looking over the shoulder.

You've been had, my man.

[4evermaat]

This can't be legal surely? Does anyone know the Thai Labor law on this issue?

Legal? I don't know, but certainly common practice, especially in the service industries.

One time I ordered a dish at a restaurant, but when it came it was not what I expected and I didn't want it. When the bill came, the waiter had taken it off the bill. I told him to put it back on as it was my mistake, not his. He was very relieved.

I think it's an absolutely rotten practice designed to take advantage of the employee. It should be illegal. But, even if illegal, would it ever be enforced? Any employee who complained would most likely just get fired.

A month ago or so I ordered some pizza from the pizza company. The manager wrote down what I wanted (2 x 2 large pizzas, two toppings, less cheese, more sauce). I went over it twice, pointing to the relevant sections in the thai/english menu. I come back and the pizzas are medium size. I pointed that out and thought about getting new pizza, but looked at her smile and let it go. I realize now why they discourage customizing food at some of these chain restaurants; the carefree-ness can extend into their work ethic.

After reading this thread, I'm probably a bit more relaxed about being a hard case when a minor (or certain major) mistake is made at a restaurant.

[PattayaPhom]

Nothing that employers in Thailand (Thai or farang) might do to their employees would surprise me, in the same way that I would not be surprised by what other sorts of trickery any landlord or lawyer or real estate agent or other businessman might try to pull here.

People doing business in Thailand tend to be dishonest, greedy and unpleasant at the best of times.

If there is a post on fine dining, you could always bring in similar comments about certain professions. Its obvious you have had your fingers burnt at some point and its a shame that you have to tar everyone with the same brush. Try to move on and am sure if you think positive will begin to meet positive people. In answer to the OP, the staff made the mistake so no need for you to pay, hard lesson for them. Its common for many professions to ask for an employment bond, even teachers and assistants.

[stiggy]

Ocassionaly we get New staff that are generally very cautious,non free thinking and terrified about mistakes with money.To the point it makes them ineffective in a service based industry.

It takes months for them to trust us, but once they do we end up with confident thinking team member who's an asset to our business and a joy to work with.

Taking money for genuine mistakes is just wrong at any level.

As for the guy that states all are dishonest greedy etc, just shows the company you keep or the circles you operate in.

[IamNotaNumber]

As for the guy that states all are dishonest greedy etc, just shows the company you keep or the circles you operate in.

You appear to have misread what I actually wrote, unsurprisingly:

"People doing business in Thailand tend to be dishonest, greedy and unpleasant at the best of times."

And I stand by it.

The company I keep certainly does not include people who run businesses, for precisely that reason. And I dont "operate" anywhere at all, thanks. I leave "operating" to the "movers and shakers".

[stiggy]

No didn't misread its quite clear what you wrote.You make a very broad and sweeping statement.

The op was referring to the Thai practice of charging for mistakes, you turned that into venting about foreign owned businesses.

There are many good businesses out there who operate fairly and with pride within Thailand.

I would state there are dishonest greedy unpleasant operators world over.

[Sydebolle]

Only those doing business and work with Thais should comment here. I had x thousands of Baht missing in my restaurant. They managed to circumvent various POS systems, sold bottled drinks parallel to the official stock, bought empty 0.7l JW black label bottles and exchanged them with my 1.0l JW black bottles (full ones) which got sold. CCTV and staff lockers outside the restaurant eliminated the stock problem. The cashiers today are paid a fortune but have to bring their own change stock along. Ever since = zero deviation. Mistakes, when addressed immediately, are covered by me.

I've never met locals that smart in cheating on all levels; regretfully sad for all those honest fellows around; latter though have nothing to fear in the first place.

[gmac]

It's a fairly standard practise here, especially where handling money is concerned, that's why many cashiers and similar have to post a bond before they can start work.

Interesting double standard. Not sure I would trust the employer with the bond!

[NoshowJones]

Nothing that employers in Thailand (Thai or farang) might do to their employees would surprise me, in the same way that I would not be surprised by what other sorts of trickery any landlord or lawyer or real estate agent or other businessman might try to pull here.

People doing business in Thailand tend to be dishonest, greedy and unpleasant at the best of times.

In my experience, dishonest, greedy definitely, but I would not say unpleasant, after all, they only want your money, and they won't get it by being unpleasant, more the opposite.

[chiang mai]

It's a fairly standard practise here, especially where handling money is concerned, that's why many cashiers and similar have to post a bond before they can start work.

Interesting double standard. Not sure I would trust the employer with the bond!

Mrs CM works at the Chedi Hotel and because she handles cash she had to put up a 10K bond. That money was then put into a Bangkok Bank savings account in her name and she holds the book, when she eventually leaves the Chedi she will need a standard letter from the Chedi to Bangkok Bank saying that they can release the bond,.even if she were to never get that letter there is no way that the Chedi could profit from the bond after she had left.

[Lannatyne]

How much does the type of glass cost that you get a coke in? A handful of baht, or little more. Heard of a waitress having such a measly amount deducted from her pay cos she dropped one. They don't seem to have "cost of doing business" ethics here, and just go for the very final satang at every opportunity.

This is a very common practice. The main result is that it stifles any individuality, creativity, business acumen and development in employees, And that is the big trouble with this country. Another aspect of where freer-thinking people will walk all over this lot come the AEC.

[Fgis]

And then employees leave after the next pay...

[CaptHaddock]

This is a very common practice. The main result is that it stifles any individuality, creativity, business acumen and development in employees, And that is the big trouble with this country. Another aspect of where freer-thinking people will walk all over this lot come the AEC.

I agree with you completely right up to the point of where in SE Asia those freer-thinking people will come from. It's not as though Thailand will be joining the EU.

[Trembly]

This is a very common practice. The main result is that it stifles any individuality, creativity, business acumen and development in employees, And that is the big trouble with this country. Another aspect of where freer-thinking people will walk all over this lot come the AEC.

I agree with you completely right up to the point of where in SE Asia those freer-thinking people will come from. It's not as though Thailand will be joining the EU.

I meet ordinary people with their heads screwed on the right way every single day. Certainly, the current cultural paradigm doesn't favour them but they're there, and they can think straight and see what's going as well as anybody. Intelligence and ability are no respecters of circumstance.