Futsal World Cup: Fifa Drops Bombshell On Bangkok Arena

[Thai at Heart]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Day by day it changes, subtly, and slowly. The media, the internet, travel, reading learning, education all help to open peoples eyes just a bit every day.

35 year old city living people in Thailand today are massively different to 35 year old city living people 30 years ago. Their eyes are much wider open than their parents.

This is why the pooyai misses the point all the time trying to limit the internet, continue to push crap indoctrinated tv, give terrible uninquisitive news coverage.

But, they are fighting a losing battle. People that I know well are openly jaundiced about authority and corruption. Not on a democrat versus ptp line though, rather that realising the whole system is bent.

As an anecdote, last weekend we were at a soccer competition with my kids, and al local PTP tessaban bloke came along with his entourage in tow, handing out leaflets. As he simpered up to everyone, waiing respectfully, someone muttered words to the effect, "When he gets voted in, his hands will be chock full of money, he won't be able to wai,"

Times change

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.

I am working and talking to many "younger generation" Thais.

Whenever they get cornered in their own illogical arguments, they fall back on displaying the mindset of 12 year old...and cty, at worst! And they can not hold an insult apart from a critical remark and end up, telling you that they are proud to be Thai and if you don't like it...go home!

There is no learning, no developing and no rebellion.

It is the same old song, played on and on....

Every ones different. These are mainly friends of my wife, uni educated, 35 to 40 years old.

Wait till thess youngsters pay tax and have kids maybe.

[osiboy]

I am sure there will be hoards of people on here that will come out with the usual critisisms of of Thailand, but I actually think it is quite sad it won't be used. I have seen this place go up week after week, it's a quite impressive looking arena, and a huge effort has been made. It's a shame it has all been in vain.

yes , sad for all the peoples money the govt have wasted , i dont feel one ounce of sadness or pity for the stupid govt officials that could'nt organise a pi*s up in a brewery,........and hope they "loose all the face" they so deserve , ....buying your way to the top does not always pay !

[Skywalker69]

Wy dont rent it out to the Red Shirt Leaders were they could have their protest meetings, then they don´t have to come to central Bangkok and make a mess for ordinary working people.

[Baerboxer]

This is what happens when a country that is ruled by corruption meets a situation where they can't bribe their way out a problem

FIFA - not accepting bribes

Maybe they wouldn't offer enough. Certain FIFA potentates expect to be treated like Emeperors as well as having their palms greassed.

[Baerboxer]

Couldn't organise to get their leg-over in a brothel.

Be fair - they are masters at that!

[fstarbkk]

Sadly what you describe sounds like a perfect formula for the gradual(?) demise of a society, unable or unwilling to adapt to the reality of its surroundings.

Is there a Mr. Darwin in the room???

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Sounds like a perfect formula for the gradual(?) demise of a society, unable or unwilling to adapt to the reality of its surroundings.

Is there a Mr. Darwin in the room???

[EarthAlien]

Hmm,.. let's not be too harsh on Thailand's ability to build the stadium to a schedule (twice extended) to an acceptable international standard,.. I hear that they are much more talented and capable in being able to build nuclear power plant(s) and manage the running and security of them much better!

Just ask Plodprasob,.. he should know,.. and maybe if he'd been put in charge of the Futsal stadium it would have been finished on time and to a standard of perfection!

[NCFC]

Well the Democrat-led BMA couldn't organize a _____ in a ______.Why the surprise? They couldn't even run the country at national level when handed the chance to them on a plate, they can't even build a little stadium on time and to international standards.

This sort of thing never happened in Thakins time. Now there was a man you could rely on to get things done.

[teatree]

Farces like this are the kind of things that will make other international sporting eventlo organisers stay away from Thailand. Just recently there was talk of F1 having a race here, l'm sure this will make them think twice and as for the olympics, the stadium debacle is the reason why that will never happen.

The guys in charge may have lost face...but they will be crying all the way to the bank.

[robsamui]

Again it is the administration that has failed, not the technicians. Administration didn't get it done (approving the finances) in time due to disputes in hwo will be paid what, how much and when? The same old story. They don't care whether the country's reputation is at stake or not. They only care about the greed and their own wallet....

Som nam naa... Believe me: it will happen again!

I rather tend to think that the do care about the country's reputation - but it comes back to what I've been saying.

As far as losing face with Farang FIFA is concerned, that doesn't count because it's only farangs. For some years Thailand has been sitting on the fence. On the one hand begrudgingly wanting the kudos and benefits that the Western world has to offer, but at the same time going through the motions as the nation sees fit - and then wondering why it's not working out.

Right now Thailand is like a little kid on the edge of a playground full of big kids. The little kid wants to join in with the big boys but doesn't fully understand the rules of their game. So he tells himself that he doesn't care anyway and that the game is stupid. But he still keeps on the edge of the playground because it makes him somehow feel more important.

When one or another of the big kids speaks to him, the little kid puffs up with importance. But every time the big kids invite him to join in he stammers about, makes a mess of things and gets kicked off the team - and then tells himself once again that he doesn't care and the game is stupid anyway.

Then he goes back to the kiddies playground where he is once more a big fish in his little pond. (And where he would rather die than look stupid in front of all his friends and peers . . . ie in front of the people who really matter . . . )

R

[robsamui]

What a farce. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, how can you then find the time to go back and fix it? The halving of number of days for construction, obviously was a major concern, and by cutting corners to meet the deadline, things FIFA deemed essential were overlooked by BMA but not by FIFA. At any rate, now they 'should' take their time, do it 100% then re-approach FIFA and seek approval for next season. All is not lost but in the eyes of the world, Thailand yet again, is screwing things up.

"next season"? <deleted> are you talking about? don't you know how World Cups work? there is not such thing as seasons, and the next one will most definitely not be hosted in Thailand.

So it's nothing like The World Series then? That domestic competition of rounders, which is held every year with only American teams competing??

R

[ratcatcher]

I like to now what the do wen the get F1 in Bangkok

I think I understood what you said.

Answer in a nutshell:: They won't.

Mr Bernie Ecclestone will be long dead before Thailand gets an OK from the FIA . He's 82 now bless him.

[hhiser]

Oops!

Don't you mean

"Oops they did it again"?

Picture Yingluk in the sexy little number Britney was wearing in the video!

[bigbamboo]

I guess dropping a bombshell on the stadium is one way of testing how safe it is.

[animatic]

Consequences, see how that works?

Yes, if you can't buy them off,

they will call you incompetent idiots,

in the nicest way possible, in public.

[marstons]

I think this could be a valuable, albeit expensive lesson, if people and organizations in Thailand would choose to use it as such. The lesson is this:

In the real world, not every mistake or failure to perform can be taken care of with a cute smile, a deep wai or a token transfer to an inactive post. The real world is a demanding and very competitive place where bad performance and bad behaviour have actual cosequences that can't be swept under the rug.

I suspect however that those responsible in this case will expend all their energy to justify their failure and delegate blame to everyone but themselves, as the early reactions from the BMA suggest. They may only find out in 2015 what a harsh place the real world really is, when they have to start measuring up to the often much higher standards of the whole ASEAN region.

The sad part of it all is the very thing that the Thais are so fiercely proud of - the fact they've never been conquered or invaded. This is the kingpin of their rampant nationalism and it's their proud and defiant boast that they continue to resist the 'corrupting' effect of foreign influences on their culture.

Unfortunately one or two Thai folks are beginning to become aware of the flaw in this attitude - that the more Thailand shoves it head in the sand like an ostrich, the quicker the world outside moves on.

One the one hand it's reasonable for Thailand to look around its little corner of the world and feel superior to its neighbours. But then the Thais stagger in shock when they are forced into contact with unpleasant farang concepts such as accountability, reliability, responsibility, integrity and honesty.

Every day in their schools the children have to chant a creed about what a wonderful country Thailand is - the best in the world. But it's now gone past the point where having lots of fish and rice has a great deal of meaning.

We, the Thai people, are the greatest in the world also.

In our water, there are abundancy of fish and in our field, there are golden rice paddies.

There is no other country on this earth that can compare with our beloved Thailand.

R

They are tought they were never conquered the facts are totally different. The French or British could have walked in any time they wanted as the Japanese did. They gave away huge parts of the country away to the British and French, kind of a bung which is a tradition they excell in. 100% they will screw up their attempt to a F1 race, not a chance. They cant even build an airport with out it needing 100's of runway closures per year. Ask for help or advise from us stupid farangs never.

[bigbamboo]

I think this could be a valuable, albeit expensive lesson, if people and organizations in Thailand would choose to use it as such. The lesson is this:

In the real world, not every mistake or failure to perform can be taken care of with a cute smile, a deep wai or a token transfer to an inactive post. The real world is a demanding and very competitive place where bad performance and bad behaviour have actual cosequences that can't be swept under the rug.

I suspect however that those responsible in this case will expend all their energy to justify their failure and delegate blame to everyone but themselves, as the early reactions from the BMA suggest. They may only find out in 2015 what a harsh place the real world really is, when they have to start measuring up to the often much higher standards of the whole ASEAN region.

The sad part of it all is the very thing that the Thais are so fiercely proud of - the fact they've never been conquered or invaded. This is the kingpin of their rampant nationalism and it's their proud and defiant boast that they continue to resist the 'corrupting' effect of foreign influences on their culture.

Unfortunately one or two Thai folks are beginning to become aware of the flaw in this attitude - that the more Thailand shoves it head in the sand like an ostrich, the quicker the world outside moves on.

One the one hand it's reasonable for Thailand to look around its little corner of the world and feel superior to its neighbours. But then the Thais stagger in shock when they are forced into contact with unpleasant farang concepts such as accountability, reliability, responsibility, integrity and honesty.

Every day in their schools the children have to chant a creed about what a wonderful country Thailand is - the best in the world. But it's now gone past the point where having lots of fish and rice has a great deal of meaning.

We, the Thai people, are the greatest in the world also.

In our water, there are abundancy of fish and in our field, there are golden rice paddies.

There is no other country on this earth that can compare with our beloved Thailand.

R

They are tought they were never conquered the facts are totally different. The French or British could have walked in any time they wanted as the Japanese did. They gave away huge parts of the country away to the British and French, kind of a bung which is a tradition they excell in. 100% they will screw up their attempt to a F1 race, not a chance. They cant even build an airport with out it needing 100's of runway closures per year. Ask for help or advise from us stupid farangs never.

They do great food though.... even if they haven't found a way to make a decent pudding!

That's what the lack of a proper colonial history does for you.

[frankold]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Day by day it changes, subtly, and slowly. The media, the internet, travel, reading learning, education all help to open peoples eyes just a bit every day.

35 year old city living people in Thailand today are massively different to 35 year old city living people 30 years ago. Their eyes are much wider open than their parents.

This is why the pooyai misses the point all the time trying to limit the internet, continue to push crap indoctrinated tv, give terrible uninquisitive news coverage.

But, they are fighting a losing battle. People that I know well are openly jaundiced about authority and corruption. Not on a democrat versus ptp line though, rather that realising the whole system is bent.

As an anecdote, last weekend we were at a soccer competition with my kids, and al local PTP tessaban bloke came along with his entourage in tow, handing out leaflets. As he simpered up to everyone, waiing respectfully, someone muttered words to the effect, "When he gets voted in, his hands will be chock full of money, he won't be able to wai,"

Times change

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.

I am working and talking to many "younger generation" Thais.

Whenever they get cornered in their own illogical arguments, they fall back on displaying the mindset of 12 year old...and cty, at worst! And they can not hold an insult apart from a critical remark and end up, telling you that they are proud to be Thai and if you don't like it...go home!

There is no learning, no developing and no rebellion.

It is the same old song, played on and on....

I think you can draw a nice big line between those that have and are able to travel outside Thailand and those who have not. Criticism is not taken well by the later, as this place is likely all they will ever know.

Edited November 7, 2012 by frankold

[trainman34014]

All is far from lost,it would make a great cock fighting venue.

How about a giant illegal Casino?

[Thai at Heart]

It isn't about the people accepting change, because we all know by now that change is inevitable. Half the pooyais aren't as smart as they think they are, and only got the job through connections, and anyone below them on the food chain who knows better, isn't listened to. The reality that the emporer has no clothes (and by that I am not implying anything about the highest institution) but rather that the pooyai, knows all, sees all, and controls all.

It is the idea, that no one other than the most senior person in the room at that moment is the only one who knows what is going on. I have seen it 1000 times, where the pooyai, speaks, everyone listens dutifully, the pooyai leaves and everyone slinks off shaking their shoulders because the decision is at best half right, and the opinions of those who may know more aren't canvassed. People of position in Thailand tend not to manage but dictate. Put it into the context of a BMA managed project to build a large facility like this to a timetable, and you really have to ask who actually hoped it would get done on time? They can barely manage to get potholes fixed regularly.

This starts in school with the essential brainwashing that a teacher is completely above criticism, and pervades itself into every single interaction that a Thai has every minute of every day with his fellow Thai.

Project management of any great size is a specialist job, and this has all the hallmarks of a bunch of people trying to manage something above their pay grade. I mean honest, "we couldn't get the floor imported in time because of customs." They can't even come up with a decent excuse, as though wooden flooring is some kind of nuclear isotope, and government office can't get crap done with customs.

Some direct insights and I agree with every word except for the first sentence. Do the pooyais know that change is inevitable? By your own account, not so. Does the Thai Nation in general know? I think not. I think the Thai nation is now being forced in increasingly more ways to mesh with the world outside and - for all the reasons you have outlined and more - is not able to either compete or concur.

R

Day by day it changes, subtly, and slowly. The media, the internet, travel, reading learning, education all help to open peoples eyes just a bit every day.

35 year old city living people in Thailand today are massively different to 35 year old city living people 30 years ago. Their eyes are much wider open than their parents.

This is why the pooyai misses the point all the time trying to limit the internet, continue to push crap indoctrinated tv, give terrible uninquisitive news coverage.

But, they are fighting a losing battle. People that I know well are openly jaundiced about authority and corruption. Not on a democrat versus ptp line though, rather that realising the whole system is bent.

As an anecdote, last weekend we were at a soccer competition with my kids, and al local PTP tessaban bloke came along with his entourage in tow, handing out leaflets. As he simpered up to everyone, waiing respectfully, someone muttered words to the effect, "When he gets voted in, his hands will be chock full of money, he won't be able to wai,"

Times change

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.

I am working and talking to many "younger generation" Thais.

Whenever they get cornered in their own illogical arguments, they fall back on displaying the mindset of 12 year old...and cty, at worst! And they can not hold an insult apart from a critical remark and end up, telling you that they are proud to be Thai and if you don't like it...go home!

There is no learning, no developing and no rebellion.

It is the same old song, played on and on....

I think you can draw a nice big line between those that have and are able to travel outside Thailand and those who have not. Criticism is not taken well by the later, as this place is likely all they will ever know.

People probably only realise that ordinarily roads are not meant to be full of potholes, until they go somewhere that doesn't have any.

[TPI]

All is not lost, the authorities now have somewhere to store pledged rice.

dam_n! why didn't I think of that?

[culicine]

If they cant erect a futsal stadium what chance do they have with a F1 Grand Prix ???

[TPI]

I am sure there will be hoards of people on here that will come out with the usual critisisms of of Thailand, but I actually think it is quite sad it won't be used. I have seen this place go up week after week, it's a quite impressive looking arena, and a huge effort has been made. It's a shame it has all been in vain.

Not in vain, they can use this to their advantage, and im sure some have . How to do build a bit better and wiser . How to keep deadlines. What Happened?, maybe our caste hierarchy has too many Chiefs on the Site. PS. How many is a Hoard?

A horde is 10,000 horsemen!

[bigbamboo]

I am sure there will be hoards of people on here that will come out with the usual critisisms of of Thailand, but I actually think it is quite sad it won't be used. I have seen this place go up week after week, it's a quite impressive looking arena, and a huge effort has been made. It's a shame it has all been in vain.

Not in vain, they can use this to their advantage, and im sure some have . How to do build a bit better and wiser . How to keep deadlines. What Happened?, maybe our caste hierarchy has too many Chiefs on the Site. PS. How many is a Hoard?

A horde is 10,000 horsemen!

Or a hundred red shirts!

Edited November 7, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Bluespunk]

Welcome to the real world Thailand.

[McMagus]

What is so interesting is that one of the key tenets of Buddhism is the acceptance of change, nothing stays the same, yet, here we see a huge amount of energy being wasted to restrict change in every way. Change will come eventually, but probably not in my lifetime; it's going to be a hard road.

[soomak]

Really it just comes down to the massive cultural differences between Thailand and countries like the USA and UK. It's unfair to point blame to any individual or even government body because it goes far deeper than that. It's not that the Thailand way is wrong so much as Thailand way is different and incompatible with western ideas of meeting deadlines and standards.

I'm not sure that corruption has as much of a impact on this as is suggested here, sure it's an issue but again I think the problem goes much deeper.

Will Thailand business practices ever be "compatible" with the west ? I don't know, but I'm concerned that it would require such a massive change in the way that Thai people think that in order for that to happen, Thailand would not be Thailand.

Remember we have to take the rough with the smooth. It's Thailand's unique outlook that makes Thailand the wonderful place that it is.. I know we moan and complain all the time but deep down we love the Thai's and they ways or we wouldn't be here right?

I am not sure the "West" is the correct term.

Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan are definitely NOT western countries, yet they do meet deadlines and standards very efficiently.

It's just that Thailand is a backward country in terms of cultural progress, something like Europe was maybe 150 years ago. South Korea, Japan and Singapore have all bridged the gap within 50 years, if Thailand tries, they might do the same.

[soomak]

Again it is the administration that has failed, not the technicians. Administration didn't get it done (approving the finances) in time due to disputes in hwo will be paid what, how much and when? The same old story. They don't care whether the country's reputation is at stake or not. They only care about the greed and their own wallet....

Som nam naa... Believe me: it will happen again!

I rather tend to think that the do care about the country's reputation - but it comes back to what I've been saying.

As far as losing face with Farang FIFA is concerned, that doesn't count because it's only farangs. For some years Thailand has been sitting on the fence. On the one hand begrudgingly wanting the kudos and benefits that the Western world has to offer, but at the same time going through the motions as the nation sees fit - and then wondering why it's not working out.

Right now Thailand is like a little kid on the edge of a playground full of big kids. The little kid wants to join in with the big boys but doesn't fully understand the rules of their game. So he tells himself that he doesn't care anyway and that the game is stupid. But he still keeps on the edge of the playground because it makes him somehow feel more important.

When one or another of the big kids speaks to him, the little kid puffs up with importance. But every time the big kids invite him to join in he stammers about, makes a mess of things and gets kicked off the team - and then tells himself once again that he doesn't care and the game is stupid anyway.

Then he goes back to the kiddies playground where he is once more a big fish in his little pond. (And where he would rather die than look stupid in front of all his friends and peers . . . ie in front of the people who really matter . . . )

R

+1

[Woodsie888]

If they cant erect a futsal stadium what chance do they have with a F1 Grand Prix ???

Less of a chance

[RJJ]

And they want to build a Nuclear Power plant, they can't even build a frigging Futsal pitch.

How do you pronounce Homer Simpson in Thai...