Legally Taking Thai Child Outside Of Thailand To Reside..

[saramsland]

First of all, my apologies for starting up yet again another "how can I legally have my son live with me" thread however i have just finished reading over a number of threads on ThaiVisa & remain with a few questions & points Im unclear of.

Mario2008, you seem to have a good background on this subject but possibly other can also comment on experiences or understandings.

• In 2008 I married my Thai Girlfriend & had this registered at the Lak Si District Amphoe.
  
• 12 months later in 2009 my Thai Son was born. My son is now 3.5 years of age.
  
• My name is listed on the Thai Birth Certificate & my Childs mother is written as the person Notifying the Birth. I was present at the time of the Registration, I am sure I did sign documents however after 3.5 years I am not 100% sure of what I may have signed & after all it was all in Thai anyway.
  
• In 2009 I arranged Australian Citizenship by Decent for my son.
  
• In 2009 I arranged an Australian Passport for my son.
  
• In 2009 I arranged a Thai Passport for my son.
  
• In 2010 I divorced my Wife in Kathu District Amphoe of Phuket... (Yes a quick marriage but thats not the point of the post)
  

At the time of the divorce, as I was working in the middle of Africa & soon to be sent to Colombia it was agreed that my son reside with his mother in Phuket, however he has since then lived with her family in Issan.

I am now working in Indonesia & have a lifestyle that allows myself to return home every night & my ex-wife has said that she wishes him to reside with myself now for better schooling opportunities, learning english & simply a better life than he will most likely receive here in Thailand in the current situation.

My points I would like to clear up are:

1. As we were married at the time of the birth, does that make me the legitimate father under Thai Law?
   
2. As the Passport required both Mother & Father's Signatures to obtain the Thai Passport, does this then suggest I am the Legal Father under Thai Law?
   
3. As my son holds Australian Citizenship, this allows him to legally reside unrestricted in Australia. Being an Australian, if legal cases were made in the future & I was to be tried under Australian Law, would I then be seen as the Legitimate Father as it would be impossible for my son to obtain Australian Citizenship by Decent from his Thai Mother!?
   
4. If I am the current Legitimate Father under Thai Law, do I require any other documentation to Legally Leave Thailand with my son Long Term? (I would most likely be residing in Indonesia once leaving Thailand).
   

I am also contacting a lawyer to carry out some documentation however I would like to hear from others to 'double check' all the documents that the Lawyer arranges just in case something is missed!! If anyone has experience or positive/assistive comments to make, feel free as I am sure Im not the only one with these questions.

Also, I have previously been to Australia with my son (myself & him alone) so am sure that I can successfully leave the country however my area of concern is to ensure it is Legal for a Long Term duration as I know that Australia is one of the Countries that is involved in the International Child Aduction Arrangement where I could be held for Kidnapping if I landed in Australia & didnt have all documentation from Thailand to state I am the Legal Father & hold Custody of my Child allowing for him to reside outside of Thailand.

For the record, I still hold my son's Australian Citizenship by Decent Certificate, Thai Passport, Australian Passport & a Copy of the Thai Birth Certificate. The original Thai Birth Certificate I gave to my ex-wife last year to allow her to enter my son into his first schooling years.

Scotto

[Mario2008]

1. Yes, you are the legal father of the child.

2. Not only that, it even suggest you still have shared custody over the child. Only when one parent has sole custody does the other parent not have to sign.

Legal parents means that legally you are the parent of the child, which goes to things as child support, nationality of the child and inheritance.

Custody (better said parental rights) means in this case that you have the right to decide where the child stays, goes to school etc. In essence you are the legal care taker of the child.it are two seprate things.

3. I don't know much abotu Australian nationality law, but it seems that your child has two nationalities Australian and Thai. Neither country has a problem with that. Under the law of both countries you are the legal father, nothing is going to change that.

4. That is a question that is difficult to answer. Thai immirgaiton now can ask for proof you have permisison to take the child out of the country. I'm not sure you currently have custody together with the mother, it really depends on the wording of the agreement that you have with the mother. You say you agreed to that the child lives with the mother, that binds you and you cannot just take the child away without permisison. That could be kidnapping.

In additionyou could have signed your parental rights away, but again, that depends on the wording of the agreement you made with the mother.

You should first examine the agrement together with your lawyer.

Since the mother is not living up to the agreement, (the child doesn't stay with her), it might be possible to change the agreement. A lot will depend on if you also signed away your parental rights.

The natural course of things is that a child lives with his parent(s), so the mother can not just send to child away to live with soemone else if you are willing and capable to take care of the child. If she will not take care of the child, a judge will likely allow you to take care of the child. But next will be the question if you will be allowed to leave the country with the child. The mother can ask to block that.

This are points you should discuss with your lawyer and preferably try to negotiate over with the mother. That will be quicker and better for the child.

[saramsland]

1. Yes, you are the legal father of the child.

2. Not only that, it even suggest you still have shared custody over the child. Only when one parent has sole custody does the other parent not have to sign.

Legal parents means that legally you are the parent of the child, which goes to things as child support, nationality of the child and inheritance.

Custody (better said parental rights) means in this case that you have the right to decide where the child stays, goes to school etc. In essence you are the legal care taker of the child.it are two seprate things.

3. I don't know much abotu Australian nationality law, but it seems that your child has two nationalities Australian and Thai. Neither country has a problem with that. Under the law of both countries you are the legal father, nothing is going to change that.

4. That is a question that is difficult to answer. Thai immirgaiton now can ask for proof you have permisison to take the child out of the country. I'm not sure you currently have custody together with the mother, it really depends on the wording of the agreement that you have with the mother. You say you agreed to that the child lives with the mother, that binds you and you cannot just take the child away without permisison. That could be kidnapping.

In additionyou could have signed your parental rights away, but again, that depends on the wording of the agreement you made with the mother.

You should first examine the agrement together with your lawyer.

Since the mother is not living up to the agreement, (the child doesn't stay with her), it might be possible to change the agreement. A lot will depend on if you also signed away your parental rights.

The natural course of things is that a child lives with his parent(s), so the mother can not just send to child away to live with soemone else if you are willing and capable to take care of the child. If she will not take care of the child, a judge will likely allow you to take care of the child. But next will be the question if you will be allowed to leave the country with the child. The mother can ask to block that.

This are points you should discuss with your lawyer and preferably try to negotiate over with the mother. That will be quicker and better for the child.

Mario2008.. many thanks for the quick reply & im actually surprised that I seem to be in a better position that I thought I had been.

A week ago the mother of my child said she is happy for him to live with me, BUT we all know that could change at the drop of a hat hence why i want to ensure I get everything done Legally prior to leaving the Country.

Your comments have helped alot & I will discuss it further with my Lawyer to ensure that I have the correct Parental RIghts & also my Childs mothers signed approval with regards to my son leaving the country.

Cheers..

[SuperScouse]

Have a look at my post on the marriage and children (?) thread.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with Mario 2008, he seems to be 'in the know'.

Just ensure that you are awarded full Parental Power re. education (irrespective of the usual 50/50 custody rights that are awarded by the Thai Family Courts) - you can then legally take your child out of Thailand. Just make sure that you take the court documents with you, and then there won't be any problems passing immigration at Swampy.

Good luck!