Why Do Men Expect Bar Girls To Love Them?

[HardenedSoul]

After that the old guys usually have a good understanding about the birds and bees love.

A 30 year old young bloke with big muscles, a new football jersey and a fancy bicycle may think the ladies are all a twitter about him but the old guys have been there and done that and got the tee shirt.

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

[payak]

After that the old guys usually have a good understanding about the birds and bees love.

A 30 year old young bloke with big muscles, a new football jersey and a fancy bicycle may think the ladies are all a twitter about him but the old guys have been there and done that and got the tee shirt.

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

must be one hell of a woman, hunting elderly men, must be a stunning piece of work.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

I think most victims are the relative newcomers, of which many are getting on in years.

By the time you survive the first three or four serious relationships most have learned their lesson by then, and for some of us that's within the first couple of months.

[payak]

how would you classify mine, never really apart, like it that way.

never fight except for the odd 2 minute tiff.

have a couple of crumbsnatchers we adore.

we get along so well, i'm sure we are not alone, im 36 she's 33 if that matters.

although we are always together we dont control each other.

[rene123]

how would you classify mine, never really apart, like it that way.

never fight except for the odd 2 minute tiff.

have a couple of crumbsnatchers we adore.

we get along so well, i'm sure we are not alone, im 36 she's 33 if that matters.

although we are always together we dont control each other.

In your case you don't even qualify to discuss the topic. All you know is from hearsay. Five years ago I also thought I had love all figured out.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm not qualified to discuss bar girls either because I am a woman and I'm still learning life experiences the hard way. About the only people really qualified to discuss this topic are the old codgers in their 60s who have spent 20 years or more with the various bar girls.

And not just ten years each with two of them 8-)

More importantly, also necessary to be in a psychological position to get to know them as human beings, setting aside the usual culturally programmed prejudices.

Having known friends who turned tricks in university and being married to a sex-positive feminist sex-worker activist prior to arriving in Thailand probably helped me in that regard.

[payak]

how would you classify mine, never really apart, like it that way.

never fight except for the odd 2 minute tiff.

have a couple of crumbsnatchers we adore.

we get along so well, i'm sure we are not alone, im 36 she's 33 if that matters.

although we are always together we dont control each other.

In your case you don't even qualify to discuss the topic. All you know is from hearsay. Five years ago I also thought I had love all figured out.

anyone can discuss bargirls, who made you a mod

Nobody made me a mod and I wouldn't be one if offered the position. Yes, anyone can discuss any topic on this forum. However, you have already stated you are: 1. young (30 years old), 2. you are happily married with 2 children (which would have to put you younger than 28 when you were single). 3. And unless you spent a lot of time in Thai bars with the girls before you were married you could hardly know anything about them other than hearsay. 4. Hearsay is about as factual as anything you read on an open forum.

I'm not qualified to discuss bar girls either because I am a woman and I'm still learning life experiences the hard way. About the only people really qualified to discuss this topic are the old codgers in their 60s who have spent 20 years or more with the various bar girls.

one of the teachers at my boxing school owns three bars, he is thai, he has shown me more then enough.

dont assume age accounts for lack of experience, i have seen more in my 36 years then most will see in ten lifetimes.

thats why i settled young, in fact its not wise to assume anything.

[HardenedSoul]

About the only people really qualified to discuss this topic are the old codgers in their 60s who have spent 20 years or more with the various bar girls.

Sorry but that's drivel.

I'm in my mid-40s; been here 5 years; been to a gogo bar on two occasions - the 2nd time dragged kicking and screaming - despite living in Asoke less than 50 yards from the jewel in the P4P crown, Soi Cowboy.

I'm not and never will be the type who spends inordinate amounts of time around females of doubtful virtue but that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to discuss the topic.

I don't need to get pissed on Chang, play Connect 4, converse in "pidgin" English and bounce down the street hand-in-hand with a girl in skin-tight cutdowns, 20+ years my junior to know that any liaison beyond a few financially-motivated laps around the proverbial track will end in absolute disaster for me if I was dumb enough to believe that money wasn't her primary motivation.

Shit, you don't need to get shot to know it'll hurt, right?

[payak]

About the only people really qualified to discuss this topic are the old codgers in their 60s who have spent 20 years or more with the various bar girls.

Sorry but that's drivel.

I'm in my mid-40s; been here 5 years; been to a gogo bar on two occasions - the 2nd time dragged kicking and screaming - despite living in Asoke less than 50 yards from the jewel in the P4P crown, Soi Cowboy.

I'm not and never will be the type who spends inordinate amounts of time around females of doubtful virtue but that doesn't mean I'm not qualified to discuss the topic.

I don't need to get pissed on Chang, play Connect 4, converse in "pidgin" English and bounce down the street hand-in-hand with a girl in skin-tight cutdowns, 20+ years my junior to know that any liaison beyond a few financially-motivated laps around the proverbial track will end in absolute disaster for me if I was dumb enough to believe that money wasn't her primary motivation.

Shit, you don't need to get shot to know it'll hurt, right?

post of the week.

no one unless they are full of bs can deny a word of this.

Edited November 18, 2012 by payak

[payak]

i am sensative about bargirl issues, i know i piss people off a lot about it here.

my sensativity was born from working for a group that helps sex slaves, and underage bargirls.

we used to free them you could say, i have seen things that would make for another hostel horror film.

in the end i could not take it anymore, dont tell me i dont know the bg game here, ive seen the side you dont even know exists.

i got stories that will make your blood curdle.

proud of our groups achievments however, and the thai police we worked with are not all corrupt, we had some dam_n good boys alongside us.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

to know that any liaison beyond a few financially-motivated laps around the proverbial track will end in absolute disaster for me if I was dumb enough to believe that money wasn't her primary motivation.

Shit, you don't need to get shot to know it'll hurt, right?

Sure but I don't think that one (simplified version of an) obvious fact is actually in question.

Lots of people here are generalizing about much subtler questions about their beliefs, attitudes even their worth as unique individual human beings, when they've got an obvious lack of direct experience in getting to know them as such.

[who]

.

Why does anyone/thing get love. Babies love you because you give them milk and mush. Dogs love pats on the head ??? Children love parents because they are given everything under the sun. Boys love girls because they are given ...

You give a lot of ____ and you get back love. Sometimes.

.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i am sensative about bargirl issues, i know i piss people off a lot about it here.

my sensativity was born from working for a group that helps sex slaves, and underage bargirls.

. . .

proud of our groups achievments however, and the thai police we worked with are not all corrupt, we had some dam_n good boys alongside us.

Any chance this outfit?

[HardenedSoul]

to know that any liaison beyond a few financially-motivated laps around the proverbial track will end in absolute disaster for me if I was dumb enough to believe that money wasn't her primary motivation.

Shit, you don't need to get shot to know it'll hurt, right?

Sure but I don't think that one (simplified version of an) obvious fact is actually in question.

Evidently, Rene begs to differ since, to her mind, only those who've "run with the rats" as it were have a standpoint from which to offer "informed" comment.

[payak]

dont believe everything you read, that rescue was conducted in a region that is handled by an american org.

they were given intel by us about a group being exploited, they failed to deal with it so the grey men went in.

the grey men finance themselves, the american org have powerful sponsers, the sponsers were not pleased when children were rescued in an area looked after by the yanks and wanted answers.

the grey men helped the children, the other org did not, there sponsors were not pleased so they started a smear campaighn against the grey men.

make no mistake those children were rescued.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i am sensative about bargirl issues, i know i piss people off a lot about it here.

my sensativity was born from working for a group that helps sex slaves, and underage bargirls.

we used to free them you could say, i have seen things that would make for another hostel horror film.

in the end i could not take it anymore, dont tell me i dont know the bg game here, ive seen the side you dont even know exists.

i got stories that will make your blood curdle.

proud of our groups achievments however, and the thai police we worked with are not all corrupt, we had some dam_n good boys alongside us.

Some links for those that would like to educate themselves about some of the lesser known POV toward solving the very real problems - and ignoring the money-raising myths created by the international "anti-trafficking" NGO movement

First of all, some great blogs: link link

Past articles, in no particular order:

link

link

link

link

link

link

link

link

link

Edited November 18, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[payak]

i see what your trying to say, we make up rescues to get funded.

what do you think we want funds for, if it was not a problem we would not do it, when i am involved in a case i must pay my own way to thailand, pay for my accom, on some cases quite a long time.

dont say we make shit up for money, i lose money doing this.

and dont say there is not a problem, the problem is far bigger then you could imagine, tell the girls we rescued its not a problem, or tell them we should not exist as an org.

perhaps if groups had better funding we would not be so unfortunate to witness such horrors, even deaths that could have been prevented.

sound like your saying the sex problem does not exist, its far worse then you can imagine

[payak]

cannot believe someone would critisize a group thats rescued over 100 children.

well done, what have you done lately.

[macksview]

cannot believe someone would critisize a group thats rescued over 100 children.

well done, what have you done lately.

there isnt anyone falling in love in the places those groups go,only victims.

[noob7]

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

I think most victims are the relative newcomers, of which many are getting on in years.

By the time you survive the first three or four serious relationships most have learned their lesson by then, and for some of us that's within the first couple of months.

[farangme]

i am sensative about bargirl issues, i know i piss people off a lot about it here.

my sensativity was born from working for a group that helps sex slaves, and underage bargirls.

we used to free them you could say, i have seen things that would make for another hostel horror film.

in the end i could not take it anymore, dont tell me i dont know the bg game here, ive seen the side you dont even know exists.

i got stories that will make your blood curdle.

proud of our groups achievments however, and the thai police we worked with are not all corrupt, we had some dam_n good boys alongside us.

wah, wah, wah, wah

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[cheechoo]

i see what your trying to say, we make up rescues to get funded.

what do you think we want funds for, if it was not a problem we would not do it, when i am involved in a case i must pay my own way to thailand, pay for my accom, on some cases quite a long time.

dont say we make shit up for money, i lose money doing this.

and dont say there is not a problem, the problem is far bigger then you could imagine, tell the girls we rescued its not a problem, or tell them we should not exist as an org.

perhaps if groups had better funding we would not be so unfortunate to witness such horrors, even deaths that could have been prevented.

sound like your saying the sex problem does not exist, its far worse then you can imagine

you need to realize not all prostitutes are forced into the sex lifestyle.

a lot of them think its one never ending party.

im sure the ones that are slaves are not a lot of fun to be with.

Edited November 19, 2012 by cheechoo

[IMA_FARANG]

Easy answer.

Because around the world, in every culture and country, the man's "little head" always overcomes the brain in his "big head".

Evolution and your genes doesn't give a sh?te about whether you're "happy" or not but it wants you to have kids so you can get those genes into another generation.

The way Nature figures it, anyone who dies without at least one kid to his/her name is basically useless.

That's why sex is so much "fun".....and "love" is just one more way to encourgae sex.

[noob7]

i see what your trying to say, we make up rescues to get funded.

what do you think we want funds for, if it was not a problem we would not do it, when i am involved in a case i must pay my own way to thailand, pay for my accom, on some cases quite a long time.

dont say we make shit up for money, i lose money doing this.

and dont say there is not a problem, the problem is far bigger then you could imagine, tell the girls we rescued its not a problem, or tell them we should not exist as an org.

perhaps if groups had better funding we would not be so unfortunate to witness such horrors, even deaths that could have been prevented.

sound like your saying the sex problem does not exist, its far worse then you can imagine

you need to realize not all prostitutes are forced into the sex lifestyle.

a lot of them think its one never ending party.

im sure the ones that are slaves are not a lot of fun to be with.

You are right, with the not so fun to be with, in case you look into the 'only for Thai'-part of the business.

But how comes, that you don't call it 'forced into? It's the only way, for lo-so girls, to earn enough money, to support the family (cause the government is thinking on this only just before elections). Everyone wanna have a motorcycles, LCD/:ED TV, a iPhone, a car, a house. The girls have the 'business' opportunity, to get it. So it's their duty, to support the elder. And the lazy brother's!

[noob7]

Easy answer.

Because around the world, in every culture and country, the man's "little head" always overcomes the brain in his "big head".

Evolution and your genes doesn't give a sh?te about whether you're "happy" or not but it wants you to have kids so you can get those genes into another generation.

The way Nature figures it, anyone who dies without at least one kid to his/her name is basically useless.

That's why sex is so much "fun".....and "love" is just one more way to encourgae sex.

Construction failure?

Two heads, but not enough blood, to run both simultaneously.

Or insurance for the 'weak' species?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i see what your trying to say, we make up rescues to get funded.

what do you think we want funds for, if it was not a problem we would not do it, when i am involved in a case i must pay my own way to thailand, pay for my accom, on some cases quite a long time.

dont say we make shit up for money, i lose money doing this.

I'm not the one saying it for any one particular NGO or incident, but the rescue industry as a whole is certainly manipulating the press into whipping people up into a frenzy to drive their fund-raising, lots of NGO employees collect very high Western-level salaries complete expat packages even when they're living in the most desperately poor countries, sure looks like a nice scam to me.

and dont say there is not a problem, the problem is far bigger then you could imagine, tell the girls we rescued its not a problem, or tell them we should not exist as an org.

perhaps if groups had better funding we would not be so unfortunate to witness such horrors, even deaths that could have been prevented.

sound like your saying the sex problem does not exist, its far worse then you can imagine

I'm saying that genuine trafficking in the sex industry, especially wrt to minors is actually a much much tinier problem that what you've been led to believe. The millions upon millions of legitimate adult workers freely choosing to work in the industry worldwide do actually have major problems and could certainly use concerned citizens from the straight world helping them to fight for their rights and against their oppressive conditions, usually caused rather than helped by the laws, law enforcement and bureaucracies supposedly set up to "help them".

Just as with recreational drugs, the biggest social problems related to the sex industry are the hypocritical attempts to make the business illegal.

Very few "white knights" actually get to know the sex workers themselves and ask them what their problems are, what sort of help they really would like.

Being "rescued" is very very rarely anywhere on the list, and more often than not ends with the victims simply being punished while the real wrong-doers get away scot free.

IMO 90%+ of the people involved in the anti sex trafficking rescue industry are actually fighting against prostitution itself and just using the "sex slave" red herring as a cover.

Genuine organizations set up for that purpose should be founded and run by local sex workers whether current or former and allowed to set their own agenda, not that of foreign usually fundamentalist right-wing Christian anti-sex activists.

EMPOWER here in Thailand is a great local model for such an organization, and has done tremendous work helping the girls have better lives rather than just focusing on getting them out of the business they prefer to stay in to learn to be a seamstress or basket-weaver. Many more organizations more worthy of our support than those currently funded by our home countries' tax dollars can be found via the links I provided.

All that said and done, I'm not impugning your own personal motives nor trying to tar all activists with the same wannabe rambo white knight brush, just giving my informed perception of the state of affairs at a macro level.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You are right, with the not so fun to be with, in case you look into the 'only for Thai'-part of the business.

But how comes, that you don't call it 'forced into? It's the only way, for lo-so girls, to earn enough money, to support the family (cause the government is thinking on this only just before elections). Everyone wanna have a motorcycles, LCD/:ED TV, a iPhone, a car, a house. The girls have the 'business' opportunity, to get it. So it's their duty, to support the elder. And the lazy brother's!

Being "forced" by economic conditions is entirely different from actually being coerced or deceived - essential to the definition of true trafficking.

The goods you're talking about their striving for are certainly not necessary for survival, and if in fact every human on this planet could afford them, at current population levels there wouldn't be any resources left within a very short time, the modern western lifestyle is simply not sustainable long term and if the distribution of goods is going to become anything close to fair, will have to give way to a lifestyle much closer to the rural Thai's than a more developed one.

Very few people are actually wanting for food in Thailand; in fact if they didn't import cheap foreign workers from the three poor neighboring countries wages would instantly and dramatically rise, for Thai citizens it's very close to a full employment situation here, even the most inexperienced, uneducated worker can come to Bangkok and get a job at the drop of a hat.

This idea that sex workers don't choose to be in the sex industry is just one of the myths propagated by the traditional anti-sex aspects of Christianity and old-school first wave feminism. Talk to the workers themselves and as long as the context doesn't cause them to think they've got something to gain by giving you a sob story 99% of the time it's clear they are there by choice and would only want to leave the business if a better offer comes along.

Edited November 19, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[chiangmaikelly]

After that the old guys usually have a good understanding about the birds and bees love.

A 30 year old young bloke with big muscles, a new football jersey and a fancy bicycle may think the ladies are all a twitter about him but the old guys have been there and done that and got the tee shirt.

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

I think I have said this three times on this thread alone. They don't. It is only in your mind that they do. Look at the current posts on Thai Visa and you will see examples of young guys drinking themselves to death over a broken heart and a myriad of other problems; not old folks. The old guys don't have problems living in Thailand. They have money and visas. It is the young guys having to work outside of the country and visa problems and all the other testosterone fueled conflicts that are common to youth. I know. I was a young guy in Thailand I had all of those problems. Now I am an old guy in Thailand and I don't have the problems.

[chiangmaikelly]

After that the old guys usually have a good understanding about the birds and bees love.

A 30 year old young bloke with big muscles, a new football jersey and a fancy bicycle may think the ladies are all a twitter about him but the old guys have been there and done that and got the tee shirt.

Well if that's the case, why do so many of these "old hands" in Thailand still fall into the same pit?

must be one hell of a woman, hunting elderly men, must be a stunning piece of work.

I agree stunning is the word.

[NeverSure]

IMO 90%+ of the people involved in the anti sex trafficking rescue industry are actually fighting against prostitution itself and just using the "sex slave" red herring as a cover.

Bingo. Also the money motive. Give me a few million $ and I'll save whatever, wherever.

Genuine organizations set up for that purpose should be founded and run by local sex workers whether current or former and allowed to set their own agenda, not that of foreign usually fundamentalist right-wing Christian anti-sex activists.

IMHO no need to single out just one group. Some good and bad people there just like any other.

My view is that it is more often the Gloria Steinem women's lib atheist types who are all over this one. Some of each, granted. Everyone has an agenda.