BURNING ISSUE

Rivals must follow path of democracy

Avudh Panananda

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The government and its Pitak Siam opponents have proclaimed to be protectors of democracy but they should not have done so.

Only an undemocratic regime would need vanguards of the political system.

Instead of heeding the people's voice as evidenced by the balloting outcome, organisers of Pitak Siam protests have decided to take the matter into their own hands in order to rectify what they see as false democracy.

The government and its red-shirt supporters are flaunting their mandate to govern the country as if they want to pour oil into the Pitak Siam fire.

The red shirts have been crying foul ever since the Democrat-led government branded them as terrorists. Are they different from the Democrats as they are now accusing Pitak Siam leaders of treason?

The point is not which of the rival camps is right or wrong but the refusal of both sides to engage one another in resolving the differences as it should have been in a true democracy.

The Democrats refuse to talk to the ruling Pheu Thai Party. The reds turn their back on the yellow shirts and any splinter groups, including Pitak Siam. The pro-Thaksin camp blames the anti-Thaksin camp for undemocratic spirit and vice versa.

Pitak Siam has no justification to "freeze" the democratic rule in order to complete the political cleansing. And the ruling party too has no justification to shun and silence its opponents.

If the Democrats have made a mistake in trying to silence the red shirts, then the government is about to go down the wrong path in dealing with Pitak Siam.

At issue is how to pacify street protests from spiralling out of control.

Successive leaders from Thaksin Shinawatra, Samak Sundaravej, Somchai Wongsawat, Abhisit Vejjajiva to Yingluck Shinawatra harboured false hope that security forces could rein in the crowds.

Since 1973, all major protests to overthrow a government ended up in bloodshed or power seizure or both. None got resolved in a peaceful manner.

If Pheu Thai leaders think they have a magic formula to overcome the Pitak Siam protesters, then they might need to think again.

The minor clashes between the red and yellow shirts in 2008 should serve as a warning of the dire consequence in mobilising the mobs against the other crowds.

Learning from the 2008 botched crowd control, the Democrats thought they had closed all the legal and operational loopholes. Still violence happened and blood spilled in 2010.

The government should, at least, try to reason with and pacify Pitak Siam. Thus far, it is unfortunate that coalition leaders opt to see their opponents as enemies to defeat rather than partners to work with.

Of course, Pitak Siam is totally off course in calling for a coup. But would it have played the military card if it can have a dialogue with the government?

Based on anti-Thaksin figures backing Pitak Siam, the charter rewrite is at the core of the dispute. The window of opportunity remains open for the rival sides to work out on how to improve the political system.

If the talks fail, then the government should call a snap election for a fresh mandate rather than crack down on protesters. If they are true democracy advocates, the rival camps should fight through the ballot box and not in the streets.

-- The Nation 2012-11-16

The sad part about all this is the use of the word 'democracy' is spat out, flaunted and used as an excuse in just about anything with no heed as to what it truly is. Democratic process, i.e. votes, puts the Govt in power. Once in power, it is given the keys to the bank and the house and the pigs start feeding. At that point they care nothing about 'democracy'. They have a limited time at the trough and like what they represent, the feeding frenzy continues as the country wallows from one deed of corruption to another.

Pitak Siam is a newly formed political party. A minority. The Pareto Principle applies and if any party wishes to get into power, they simply have to appeal to the larger percentage. Even if they do not care about the actual voters, the lip service has to address those who have the power to cast the vote in their favour and the spin doctors work overtime with 'policies' (lies), about what they will do once elected.

Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult. Due process of law is not handling it well, Thaksin is a wily seasoned politician and a convicted criminal and still running the country from exile. He knows by using his money, a few hundred Baht here and there, he can buy the votes. As the majority of voters are poor, it does not take much to gain their allegiance. Give them a red T Shirt, a clapper and a picture to hold and some Baht for Mekong, it's an easy recipe. Censure motions may help, a coup also, but right now, leaving 'democracy' up to a voting uneducated public majority willing to accept a 'donation' will leave this country stagnated and being stripped from within.

It may well be Pitak Siam is a far better option than the Dems, but can they get the numbers and the support and if empowered will they be any different from the other pigs at the trough? Or do we wait for military intervention once again? Either way it is simply a roll of the dice and democracy has nothing to do with it.

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by asiawatcher

The sad part about all this is the use of the word 'democracy' is spat out, flaunted and used as an excuse in just about anything with no heed as to what it truly is. Democratic process, i.e. votes, puts the Govt in power. Once in power, it is given the keys to the bank and the house and the pigs start feeding. At that point they care nothing about 'democracy'. They have a limited time at the trough and like what they represent, the feeding frenzy continues as the country wallows from one deed of corruption to another.

Pitak Siam is a newly formed political party. A minority. The Pareto Principle applies and if any party wishes to get into power, they simply have to appeal to the larger percentage. Even if they do not care about the actual voters, the lip service has to address those who have the power to cast the vote in their favour and the spin doctors work overtime with 'policies' (lies), about what they will do once elected.

Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult. Due process of law is not handling it well, Thaksin is a wily seasoned politician and a convicted criminal and still running the country from exile. He knows by using his money, a few hundred Baht here and there, he can buy the votes. As the majority of voters are poor, it does not take much to gain their allegiance. Give them a red T Shirt, a clapper and a picture to hold and some Baht for Mekong, it's an easy recipe. Censure motions may help, a coup also, but right now, leaving 'democracy' up to a voting uneducated public majority willing to accept a 'donation' will leave this country stagnated and being stripped from within.

It may well be Pitak Siam is a far better option than the Dems, but can they get the numbers and the support and if empowered will they be any different from the other pigs at the trough? Or do we wait for military intervention once again? Either way it is simply a roll of the dice and democracy has nothing to do with it.

http://betterexplain...-the-8020-rule/

Thanks, i learned something.

So so the Yellows choose yet another color and try to re-brand,

In fact It's a bit selfish as there will be no colors left for any future protests.

"Rivals must follow path of democracy"

The must first learn what democracy is

The PTP made promises to get elected, they sold a bill of goods to the electorate, if you vote for me I will ........ They havent delivered on all their promises and the ones they have are poisoned chalices. Therefore, the electorate has the democratic right to complain through demonstration and protest, the larger the numbers the more common the complaint.

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by waza

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by metisdead
: Please do not post using bold font.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding comes direct from Red TV.

Very well said Tony.

The sad part about all this is the use of the word 'democracy' is spat out, flaunted and used as an excuse in just about anything with no heed as to what it truly is. Democratic process, i.e. votes, puts the Govt in power. Once in power, it is given the keys to the bank and the house and the pigs start feeding. At that point they care nothing about 'democracy'. They have a limited time at the trough and like what they represent, the feeding frenzy continues as the country wallows from one deed of corruption to another.Pitak Siam is a newly formed political party. A minority. The Pareto Principle applies and if any party wishes to get into power, they simply have to appeal to the larger percentage. Even if they do not care about the actual voters, the lip service has to address those who have the power to cast the vote in their favour and the spin doctors work overtime with 'policies' (lies), about what they will do once elected.Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult. Due process of law is not handling it well, Thaksin is a wily seasoned politician and a convicted criminal and still running the country from exile. He knows by using his money, a few hundred Baht here and there, he can buy the votes. As the majority of voters are poor, it does not take much to gain their allegiance. Give them a red T Shirt, a clapper and a picture to hold and some Baht for Mekong, it's an easy recipe. Censure motions may help, a coup also, but right now, leaving 'democracy' up to a voting uneducated public majority willing to accept a 'donation' will leave this country stagnated and being stripped from within.It may well be Pitak Siam is a far better option than the Dems, but can they get the numbers and the support and if empowered will they be any different from the other pigs at the trough? Or do we wait for military intervention once again? Either way it is simply a roll of the dice and democracy has nothing to do with it.

For someone who is trying hard to sound intelligent it appears you don't know some basics associated with this story.

1. PT don't have to indulge in a 'feeding frenzy' as they have a considerable electoral mandate and are likely to hold power for a significant period of time

2. Pitak Siam is not a political party, in fact they want an end to democracy not to compete in it

3. Even though the Dems tried their darnedest to pin funding the reds on TS they failed miserably

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by Rich teacher

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Very well said Tony.

As a Rich teacher, you might find it in yourself to help Tony with his spelling and grammar.

That sentence was longer than the one facing Thaksin.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Very well said Tony.

As a Rich teacher, you might find it in yourself to help Tony with his spelling and grammar.

That sentence was longer than the one facing Thaksin.

Grammar; 2/10

Content: 9/10

Overall a promising piece of work.

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

Does being venal include doing deals with the army to get into a position of power?

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

Does being venal include doing deals with the army to get into a position of power?

From the OP:

"If the Democrats have made a mistake in trying to silence the red shirts, then the government is about to go down the wrong path in dealing with Pitak Siam."

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

Does being venal include doing deals with the army to get into a position of power?

No, I was merely helping you define those who are wealthy and educated and support PTP. It is, after all, the party owned by a man who has spent his entire life reaping corrupt benefit from the people of this country. So I reason that if anybody is both wealthy and educated, yet prepared to put aside their morals to be associated with such a person, it could only be that they see some material gain coming to themselves ie they are venal.

9/10 for content - everybody passes in a Thai school.

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

Does being venal include doing deals with the army to get into a position of power?

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Ah yes, the newbie voicing his 'knowledge' based on red-shirt propaganda. The clue is in the claim that democracy is only about winning an election. Anyone who has lived here through the Thaksin direct rule years (excepting the usual suspects) knows that Thaksin's version of democracy was based on the Lee Kwan Yu model - destroy any political, media, business or human rights opposition.

I wonder if the writer has any idea about how elections are bought here. You have a lot of learning to do about Thailand Mr Walker, judging by your poorly-written post.

The sad part about all this is the use of the word 'democracy' is spat out, flaunted and used as an excuse in just about anything with no heed as to what it truly is. Democratic process, i.e. votes, puts the Govt in power. Once in power, it is given the keys to the bank and the house and the pigs start feeding. At that point they care nothing about 'democracy'. They have a limited time at the trough and like what they represent, the feeding frenzy continues as the country wallows from one deed of corruption to another.Pitak Siam is a newly formed political party. A minority. The Pareto Principle applies and if any party wishes to get into power, they simply have to appeal to the larger percentage. Even if they do not care about the actual voters, the lip service has to address those who have the power to cast the vote in their favour and the spin doctors work overtime with 'policies' (lies), about what they will do once elected.Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult. Due process of law is not handling it well, Thaksin is a wily seasoned politician and a convicted criminal and still running the country from exile. He knows by using his money, a few hundred Baht here and there, he can buy the votes. As the majority of voters are poor, it does not take much to gain their allegiance. Give them a red T Shirt, a clapper and a picture to hold and some Baht for Mekong, it's an easy recipe. Censure motions may help, a coup also, but right now, leaving 'democracy' up to a voting uneducated public majority willing to accept a 'donation' will leave this country stagnated and being stripped from within.It may well be Pitak Siam is a far better option than the Dems, but can they get the numbers and the support and if empowered will they be any different from the other pigs at the trough? Or do we wait for military intervention once again? Either way it is simply a roll of the dice and democracy has nothing to do with it.

For someone who is trying hard to sound intelligent it appears you don't know some basics associated with this story.

1. PT don't have to indulge in a 'feeding frenzy' as they have a considerable electoral mandate and are likely to hold power for a significant period of time

2. Pitak Siam is not a political party, in fact they want an end to democracy not to compete in it

3. Even though the Dems tried their darnedest to pin funding the reds on TS they failed miserably

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You are entitled to your opinion and I mine. I only agree with point 4. If you understand the note of the Pareto Principle you may get to understand - oh never mind... The rest you can squeal and shout it as large as you like. You are simply wrong and like most teachers, always for the socialist solutions for the underdogs. Yap away...

4. Reds are not just the poor, but a significant portion of the wealthy and educated

You left out venal.

Does being venal include doing deals with the army to get into a position of power?

Does having the wealth of the country skimmed require condoning the puppet master or are you simply unable to comprehend using the army or any other force to remove a corrupt government in a bloodless coup when the nation is threatened? And still is.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

No his understanding is not faulty - it his understanding. Your understanding is different. You told us that, because you compared his views to Rich teachers posts that you declare rubbish. Not very subtle and definitely not very helpful. What do you suggest he read, this rubbish, the PAD site, http://www.antithaksin.com/SiteMap.php ?

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

No his understanding is not faulty - it his understanding. Your understanding is different. You told us that, because you compared his views to Rich teachers posts that you declare rubbish. Not very subtle and definitely not very helpful. What do you suggest he read, this rubbish, the PAD site, http://www.antithaksin.com/SiteMap.php ?

Well picked posting name.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

No his understanding is not faulty - it his understanding. Your understanding is different. You told us that, because you compared his views to Rich teachers posts that you declare rubbish. Not very subtle and definitely not very helpful. What do you suggest he read, this rubbish, the PAD site, http://www.antithaksin.com/SiteMap.php ?

His voicing of propaganda is not in any sense 'understanding' & you're not helping. It is not necessary to glean biased information from any web site, only use one's own mind. The only problem with that is when one doesn't have a clue about the subject, one does post rubbish. Rich teacher is just a propaganda mouthpiece for the red-shirts & PTP.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

No his understanding is not faulty - it his understanding. Your understanding is different. You told us that, because you compared his views to Rich teachers posts that you declare rubbish. Not very subtle and definitely not very helpful. What do you suggest he read, this rubbish, the PAD site, http://www.antithaksin.com/SiteMap.php ?

Let's rephrase into 'understanding based on faulty assumptions larded with nasty comments and topped with near insults'

Even a learned gentleman who had studied in Cambridge just recently talked about the legitimate PM Abhisit and he's not really known as a Democrats lover. 'posh rabble' is just as offensive as 'red buffaloes' and just as incorrect. 'glove puppet' is offensive and just as incorrect as naming Ms. Yingluck one. As for winning the election, TW probably meant won a seat majority in parliament (254 out of 500), that means there were other political parties who also won. Respect is for a working democratic system, not for a 'we won, we don't need extra justification for action, bring Thaksin back'.

BTW I never look at the anti-thaksin site, I also try to avoid some American red/orangeshirt sites (non-quotable mostly anyway). My source of inspiration is the Robert A. site. For your information here the link http://robertamsterd...com/thailand/  

Let's rephrase into 'understanding based on faulty assumptions larded with nasty comments and topped with near insults'

Even a learned gentleman who had studied in Cambridge just recently talked about the legitimate PM Abhisit and he's not really known as a Democrats lover. 'posh rabble' is just as offensive as 'red buffaloes' and just as incorrect. 'glove puppet' is offensive and just as incorrect as naming Ms. Yingluck one. As for winning the election, TW probably meant won a seat majority in parliament (254 out of 500), that means there were other political parties who also won. Respect is for a working democratic system, not for a 'we won, we don't need extra justification for action, bring Thaksin back'.

BTW I never look at the anti-thaksin site, I also try to avoid some American red/orangeshirt sites (non-quotable mostly anyway). My source of inspiration is the Robert A. site. For your information here the link http://robertamsterd...com/thailand/

What nasty comments and near insults - you reading something different to me? How is calling someone part of a posh rabble as insulting as telling someone theyre a red buffalo? Do you not have a brain? Thats insulting. I ithink you do read that yellow crap.

Let's rephrase into 'understanding based on faulty assumptions larded with nasty comments and topped with near insults'

Even a learned gentleman who had studied in Cambridge just recently talked about the legitimate PM Abhisit and he's not really known as a Democrats lover. 'posh rabble' is just as offensive as 'red buffaloes' and just as incorrect. 'glove puppet' is offensive and just as incorrect as naming Ms. Yingluck one. As for winning the election, TW probably meant won a seat majority in parliament (254 out of 500), that means there were other political parties who also won. Respect is for a working democratic system, not for a 'we won, we don't need extra justification for action, bring Thaksin back'.

BTW I never look at the anti-thaksin site, I also try to avoid some American red/orangeshirt sites (non-quotable mostly anyway). My source of inspiration is the Robert A. site. For your information here the link http://robertamsterd...com/thailand/

What nasty comments and near insults - you reading something different to me? How is calling someone part of a posh rabble as insulting as telling someone theyre a red buffalo? Do you not have a brain? Thats insulting. I ithink you do read that yellow crap.

"Do you not have a brain? Thats insulting." (sic)

Do you not realise that accusing someone of being insulting of another's intelligence, and immediately repeating the offence, more than once, is rank hypocrisy. At least now I have an understood noun to follow your adjective.

The sad part about all this is the use of the word 'democracy' is spat out, flaunted and used as an excuse in just about anything with no heed as to what it truly is. Democratic process, i.e. votes, puts the Govt in power. Once in power, it is given the keys to the bank and the house and the pigs start feeding. At that point they care nothing about 'democracy'. They have a limited time at the trough and like what they represent, the feeding frenzy continues as the country wallows from one deed of corruption to another.

Pitak Siam is a newly formed political party. A minority. The Pareto Principle applies and if any party wishes to get into power, they simply have to appeal to the larger percentage. Even if they do not care about the actual voters, the lip service has to address those who have the power to cast the vote in their favour and the spin doctors work overtime with 'policies' (lies), about what they will do once elected.

Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult. Due process of law is not handling it well, Thaksin is a wily seasoned politician and a convicted criminal and still running the country from exile. He knows by using his money, a few hundred Baht here and there, he can buy the votes. As the majority of voters are poor, it does not take much to gain their allegiance. Give them a red T Shirt, a clapper and a picture to hold and some Baht for Mekong, it's an easy recipe. Censure motions may help, a coup also, but right now, leaving 'democracy' up to a voting uneducated public majority willing to accept a 'donation' will leave this country stagnated and being stripped from within.

It may well be Pitak Siam is a far better option than the Dems, but can they get the numbers and the support and if empowered will they be any different from the other pigs at the trough? Or do we wait for military intervention once again? Either way it is simply a roll of the dice and democracy has nothing to do with it.

Toppling this corrupt govt will be very difficult.

it is not difficult. it's called voting.

your comments on the thai electorate indicate where the lack of education is really found. and it looks like you do not like democracy in thailand. do you like democracy in your own country? do they always check with you before approving the results of elections to see if you agree?

this p-s group is not an option to the democrats, it is not even a party, and so far their contribution to the thai democracy has been to call for a coup.

you may not like the red shirts and they may adore their fearless leader in dubai, but they are the ONLY group in thailand calling for elections when the going gets tough. that is a fact.

in my country we just finished an election where the republicans did everything in their power to prevent certain people from voting. it was racist bigoted and disgusting. sounds familiar.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding is somewhat faulty. Even Rich teacher stopped writing such rubbish. Please do all of us a favour, and do some reading first.

his phrasing is closer to what I'd like to use with this group of posters, but his facts are correct.

Your understanding looks "somewhat faulty" to me.

to my understanding this government was elected ,where as the gverment led by the "democrats " was put in by the army,with eton educated british passport holding puppet as prime minister, as ever when beaten fair and square in elections, the posh rabble throw the toys out the pram and scweem and scweem until there big bully brothers take control via another coup, and give the ball back to some snivling little glove puppet with some generals hand shuvved firmly up it,not saying the preasent lot are saints but at least they won a democratic election, something you woud as,sume the "democrats" would respect ,

Your understanding comes direct from Red TV.

then red tv got it right for once.