Life In Chiang Mai

[watergnome]

Hi,

Just wanted to ask for some experiences about life in Chiang Mai. I am considering moving there from Uk with my two children. I am looking for a less stressful life then the nowadays crazy London where we can live a life where the kids can go out of the house to play, experience new cultures and enjoy open air. Anyone can give advice on quality of live etc there? I am looking into international schools for them and I won't be working, just looking after the children. Is there a united expat and local scene or segregated? I like multi cultural friendly people places .

Any experiences appreciated.

Cheers

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If you live in a housing development then it's reasonably safe for the kids to be outside. Elsewhere though traffic is a concern, especially for younger kids. There are loads of safety concerns; crime is mostly not a major concern, but just about everything else that has a defined safety standard in the West IS a concern in Thailand. Overall Thailand is a much more suitable place for (single) guys than it is for families. That said I have kids here myself so clearly I don't feel like it's really super irresponsible.

Another thing to consider is schooling; while regular Thai language education is super cheap, that can't be said for English Programmes or (especially) full international schools with a British or US curriculum. I would make a decision about the type of schooling and then check the rough costs.

Then, there are a couple weeks in March most years where the whole North of Thailand suffers from extreme haze due to region-wide burning of crop fields. Some people are more affected than others, but for kids as well as people with respiratory conditions it's much better to plan to be elsewhere in Thailand, or plan a holiday abroad that time. Thai schools tend to have a big holiday around this time so it works well for a beach holiday or visit home.

And then lastly for visas you will need some way of staying in the country; if you're under 50 years old you don't qualify for a retirement visa, and I assume you're also not married to a Thai national. So that makes it a bit more complicated to arrange for a longer stay. Not impossible, but you'll need to research a bit.

So those are the negatives; there are of course also many positives; just the different cultural experience, the people, the food, the weather (outside of March ) lots of nature to explore, etc. How about planning a long-ish holiday first, and then see if you think it's feasible?

Edited November 16, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[hellodolly]

Well as for the quality of life I can only speak for myself. It is OK for me. I do miss plays and some of the people I had in my life back home.

On the other hand it is a different culture and in my opinion a very good one. It is different from what I left. I look at it as neither right or wrong just different. The safety factor here is far better than most of the Western world but that does not mean you don't have to use common sense.

It will allow children to play outside like when I was a kid with out having to worry so much about them.

We have several organizations here for foreigners such as the expat club which meets once a month. It is connected with about 15 other special interest groups. Computers,board games,gardening ,hiking, dining, reading. and the list goes on. In addition there are other organizations here where Foreigners intermingle with the Thai population.

I don't know any thing about the schools but possibly they would have need of parental help or advice.

The only thing I can say for sure is that if it had a beach and people would learn to drive on the right side of the road it would be perfect.

Sorry I forgot to mention Winnie is right about the smog we get here for a month and a half to two months. For some it is a definite no no. Most people stay here and use air cons or air purifiers in doors but outside you might want to consider wearing a mask it is not an uncommon thing here. Also it can effect your eyes.

Edited November 16, 2012 by hellodolly

[zippydedodah]

Personally, i moved my family (we have a 9 yr old) to thailand in order to get her away from the type of childhood she might have in USA (Northern California in particular). I have personally been at odds with US culture and custom for my 65 yrs and having already raised 3 kids in USA, i was determined to offer this child other choices in life. So i find CM in particular a great place for families!

She is international school, has friends from many diverse cultures (in SFO it was mostly Chinese in her school) and my wife and i have found many friends here - thais, israelis, dutch, korean, japanese, etc..

We have only been here 4 yrs but the air quality has been all over the map during those 2 problem months but not enuf to really disturb our lifestyles...

As with so many situations/places in the world, it is what you make of it. For me, it offers a very affordable, high quality life style that i could not afford back in USA and i really love hot weather and the kicked back culture... buddhism before budgetism!

[hellodolly]

Personally, i moved my family (we have a 9 yr old) to thailand in order to get her away from the type of childhood she might have in USA (Northern California in particular). I have personally been at odds with US culture and custom for my 65 yrs and having already raised 3 kids in USA, i was determined to offer this child other choices in life. So i find CM in particular a great place for families!

She is international school, has friends from many diverse cultures (in SFO it was mostly Chinese in her school) and my wife and i have found many friends here - thais, israelis, dutch, korean, japanese, etc..

We have only been here 4 yrs but the air quality has been all over the map during those 2 problem months but not enuf to really disturb our lifestyles...

As with so many situations/places in the world, it is what you make of it. For me, it offers a very affordable, high quality life style that i could not afford back in USA and i really love hot weather and the kicked back culture... buddhism before budgetism!

I only wish that I had had the experience of other cultures when I was young. And I don't mean as a vacationer. I was 50 before I got to see the difference in the many different cultures.

Even if it is only for two years they will grow up knowing there are other people with far different ways of doing things in the world.

[MESmith]

Have you ever been to Thailand or Chiang Mai? If it's "far from the madding crowd" you want & different culture, maybe first look at Cornwall or Derbyshire.

[hellodolly]

Have you ever been to Thailand or Chiang Mai? If it's "far from the madding crowd" you want & different culture, maybe first look at Cornwall or Derbyshire.

Don't know about moving around in GB.

But Williams Lake in British Columbia would sure give you a different culture. Also no maddening crowds exept for once a year when tey have The Williams Lake Stampede.

Not a safe city though.

Chiang Mai has it all to offer. If you don't like it just move to a different part of the city.

[Mapguy]

Have you ever been to Thailand or Chiang Mai? If it's "far from the madding crowd" you want & different culture, maybe first look at Cornwall or Derbyshire.

Always appreciate people knowing the difference between "madding" and "maddening."

Thomas Gray's poem -

Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard,

1751:

'Far from the madding crowd's ignoble strife,

Their sober wishes never learn'd to stray;

Along the cool sequester'd vale of life

They kept the noiseless tenor of their way.'

[amexpat]

oops

Edited November 17, 2012 by amexpat

[uptheos]

Have you ever been to Thailand or Chiang Mai? If it's "far from the madding crowd" you want & different culture, maybe first look at Cornwall or Derbyshire.

But Williams Lake in British Columbia would sure give you a different culture. Also no maddening crowds exept for once a year when tey have The Williams Lake Stampede.

He said madding crowds.

Far from the madding crowd's ignoble strife,

Their sober wishes never learn'd to stray;

Along the cool sequester'd vale of life

They kept the noiseless tenor of their way.

[jak2002003]

I don't think you will regret moving to Chiang Mai!!!! I have been here nearly 5 years now and I come from the UK. I would never want to go back to the UK now.

Have you been here on holiday before? How old are your children? Have you thought about what Visa you need to get in order to stay here?

Life here is great - but it still can be stress full - but for different reasons. The culture is very different some of the Ex Pats that live here are not the 'typical' UK residents. Food is very different, as well as the culture.

I would recommend you should learn the Thai Language and get involved in lots of Thai activities in your area. If you want you children to have a relaxing time, and be able to play outside - then living in the city is not the best choice. I live out in the countryside and it lovely and quiet. The roads are quite and there is no pollution.

Be careful about what school you choose for your children. Some of the international schools are very expensive and very religious orientated (as well as American English used). Do lots of research.

As far as schools for you to learn Thai I go to one called Pro Language in the city. I tried several, but that was the best and my Thai speaking, reading and writing is great now. The school can also get you an ED visa which will enable you to stay here.

I don't like to mix with too many farangs, and most of my friends are Thai. I never understand some people that move to this country - rich in culture and diversity - only to sit in their houses, eat in European restaurants, and go to Ex pat meetings and bars and complain about Thailand.

To get the most enjoyment and fulfillment from your move here you need to get immersed into the culture here - and this will help you feel you have a real home here, and are not just some foreigner that does not quite fit in.

Good luck with your decisions - maybe see you in the city sometime soon!

[ARISTIDE]

I don't know if kids will have better quality of life here, at least education-wise. Living here is best suitable for some experienced alfpha male looking for a second chance.

Edited November 17, 2012 by ARISTIDE

[masuk]

I've only been here 8 months, the past two months north of Chiang Mai in a delightful area.

I rent a 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2 loo house for $250 a month. That's much less than a week's rent back in Oz.

People are nice, most Thais have no idea on dog training, but it's peaceful here.. Sure a beach or even a decent pool would be great; the beaches are not so far for a holiday.

Driving habits leave much to be desired, if only they'd keep on the LEFT!

I took my wife and kids to Indonesia for 2 years, it was sure different, but a great learning experience for all. Not much different to here as far as challenges go.

Schooling is something you'll get good advice on from others.

[watergnome]

WOW!!! Talk about a helpful group of people. Many thanks, a lot of information, personal experiences and good and bad points...just what I was looking for .

To provide a but more clarification we have been to many Asian cities but not Chiang Mai yet. Our heart has always been set into moving East, for as long as I can remember.

Off course a visit to get the feel for the city, schools etc is in the works (December) before a final decision is made, but as much information in advance the better. It could happen that a visit wouldn't be needed to decide it wasn't for us, based on issues we would learn from you guys that would be a no no for us. So far so good

We would like a school that follows the British curriculum and have found that Lanna Int. School seems to be the only one providing this at the moment. We found good reports and accounts about the school so far, but the visit is still a must (fees are ok and are actually a quarter of what we pay now in UK for our 6y and 13y children).

Visas would be ED for the children via the school and Guardian Non Em for me ( or worst case scenario an ED too as I plan to enrol in Thai language school anyway). Spoke to embassy here and they presented no problems in issuing such visas with the boys school letter confirming enrolment and payment.

We plan to live as close to school as possible and have been looking at places like Koolpuntville or Land and Houses, etc. Anyone could tell me if this type of developments are gated or just complex of houses etc? Is the area around the international schools (Hang Dong) close to airport Plaza, pleasant, safe, polluted or not so much, close to any markets or so?

Once again many thanks for all your help so far, looking forward to your replies.

Cheers

[TommoPhysicist]

There are two beaches in CM.

Huay Tung Tao lake about 10Km outside town along the 121 past 700 year stadium, 20bht to enter, good swimming and pedal boats available to hire. Nice waterfall about 3Km from lake.

Ob Khan National Park, about 15Km from Hang dong, about a 4Km stretch of white sandy beach and rocky beach along a nice river. Free entry, they even provide inner tubes to float down in.

There are markets everywhere.

Kad Farang has an evening market (Wednesday or was it Thusday) half way from Hang Dong to Chiang Mai.

San Patong has the famous Buffalo market every Saturday morning (10Km beyond Hang Dong), where you can buy everything from clothing to chainsaws.

Hang Dong is actually about 10Km from Airport Plaza .... just in case you thought they were next to each other. You should also check out 'Baan Wang Tan' (half way from Hang Dong and CM), lots of foreigners living there and a swimming pool on site.

Edited November 17, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[jacktrip]

the sf bay area has one of the highest quality of life indexes anywhere?? if you can afford it.

one thing i dislike about cm and thailand in general is the lack of sidewalks outside the main roads. sooner or later im looking to get clipped eventually.

most times there is no cushion, so a car or bike must be willing to move around you for you to not get hit. not comforting considering the amount of drinking that goes on here. this would be a safety issue for children.

Edited November 17, 2012 by jacktrip

[Beetlejuice]

There is an abundance of excellent International schools in Chiang Mai, a wide choice available, but not cheap. I would advise checking out the schools and fees online, as considering you have two children, plus perhaps University fees later on, you need to ensure that the Chiang Mai International schools and Thai Universities are affordable for you?

There are no united expat or community scenes in Chiang Mai. Most you will find are segregated, unwelcoming and keep among themselves or within their own cliques. Nightlife and social forget it, so it is extremely difficult to meet or befriend other ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

If you are the type who prefers to keep to yourself, enjoys isolation, than Chiang Mai is the place for you. As for experiencing the open air, it`s great when it`s breathable and free from pollution, which is not often these days. If you or your children suffer from certain health problems, such as asthma, I would not recommend spending long periods here.

My advice is: please do some research and surveying online first.

[jacktrip]

There is an abundance of excellent International schools in Chiang Mai, a wide choice available, but not cheap. I would advise checking out the schools and fees online, as considering you have two children, plus perhaps University fees later on, you need to ensure that the Chiang Mai International schools and Thai Universities are affordable for you?

There are no united expat or community scenes in Chiang Mai. Most you will find are segregated, unwelcoming and keep among themselves or within their own cliques. Nightlife and social forget it, so it is extremely difficult to meet or befriend other ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

If you are the type who prefers to keep to yourself, enjoys isolation, than Chiang Mai is the place for you. As for experiencing the open air, it`s great when it`s breathable and free from pollution, which is not often these days. If you or your children suffer from certain health problems, such as asthma, I would not recommend spending long periods here.

My advice is: please do some research and surveying online first.

what expat clubs or scenes did you find unwelcoming in cm?

[Beetlejuice]

There is an abundance of excellent International schools in Chiang Mai, a wide choice available, but not cheap. I would advise checking out the schools and fees online, as considering you have two children, plus perhaps University fees later on, you need to ensure that the Chiang Mai International schools and Thai Universities are affordable for you?

There are no united expat or community scenes in Chiang Mai. Most you will find are segregated, unwelcoming and keep among themselves or within their own cliques. Nightlife and social forget it, so it is extremely difficult to meet or befriend other ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

If you are the type who prefers to keep to yourself, enjoys isolation, than Chiang Mai is the place for you. As for experiencing the open air, it`s great when it`s breathable and free from pollution, which is not often these days. If you or your children suffer from certain health problems, such as asthma, I would not recommend spending long periods here.

My advice is: please do some research and surveying online first.

what expat clubs or scenes did you find unwelcoming in cm?

Exactly. What expat clubs or scenes, where are they?

I`m talking about the general ex-pat population of Chiang Mai.

As I said, the OP should do some research first prior to making a decision to live long term in Chiang Mai.

[jacktrip]

There is an abundance of excellent International schools in Chiang Mai, a wide choice available, but not cheap. I would advise checking out the schools and fees online, as considering you have two children, plus perhaps University fees later on, you need to ensure that the Chiang Mai International schools and Thai Universities are affordable for you?

There are no united expat or community scenes in Chiang Mai. Most you will find are segregated, unwelcoming and keep among themselves or within their own cliques. Nightlife and social forget it, so it is extremely difficult to meet or befriend other ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

If you are the type who prefers to keep to yourself, enjoys isolation, than Chiang Mai is the place for you. As for experiencing the open air, it`s great when it`s breathable and free from pollution, which is not often these days. If you or your children suffer from certain health problems, such as asthma, I would not recommend spending long periods here.

My advice is: please do some research and surveying online first.

what expat clubs or scenes did you find unwelcoming in cm?

Exactly. What expat clubs or scenes, where are they?

I`m talking about the general ex-pat population of Chiang Mai.

As I said, the OP should do some research first prior to making a decision to live long term in Chiang Mai.

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/

[hellodolly]

There is an abundance of excellent International schools in Chiang Mai, a wide choice available, but not cheap. I would advise checking out the schools and fees online, as considering you have two children, plus perhaps University fees later on, you need to ensure that the Chiang Mai International schools and Thai Universities are affordable for you?

There are no united expat or community scenes in Chiang Mai. Most you will find are segregated, unwelcoming and keep among themselves or within their own cliques. Nightlife and social forget it, so it is extremely difficult to meet or befriend other ex-pats in Chiang Mai.

If you are the type who prefers to keep to yourself, enjoys isolation, than Chiang Mai is the place for you. As for experiencing the open air, it`s great when it`s breathable and free from pollution, which is not often these days. If you or your children suffer from certain health problems, such as asthma, I would not recommend spending long periods here.

My advice is: please do some research and surveying online first.

what expat clubs or scenes did you find unwelcoming in cm?

Exactly. What expat clubs or scenes, where are they?

I`m talking about the general ex-pat population of Chiang Mai.

As I said, the OP should do some research first prior to making a decision to live long term in Chiang Mai.

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/

They will find many expat clubs there with a wide range of interests.

Watergnome please do not let some doom and gloom people get you down.

We have people here who would be finding fault in Paradise. Chiang Mai is like any other city in many ways. It has a wide variety of life style choices. Being a foreign country language will be a big one. You can find places to go to get around that or you can find places to learn it. Your choice.

You have all ready found out the visa information you need to know it will not be a surprise to you here You know the school you want your children to go to and now you are seeking information about the housing in the area. Sorry I can not help you there.

The only negative thing I can say is yes the snog is brutal here during the rice field burning season. As I said masks are an excepted defense to use when out side. You might want to explore the different qualities on line. For the most part the expat community stays here through it. There is a small portion that do leave for other areas when it is with us.

The bottom line is you are in Asia where you want to be. If you find Chiang Mai not to be what you would prefer there are lots of other places and you will have some more experience of Asian living. I will leave you with this little bit of advice I try to live with. Do not judge Thai's as right or wrong just different. That is a motto that has worked very well for me now for 7 years.

Edited November 17, 2012 by hellodolly

[masuk]

Sidewalks/footpaths? where? I've only seen motor bike parking areas.

As the tendency is to park exactly in front of where you want to go or work, bikes are parked on the nearest open space - you guessed it.

The 2.5 metres between a boundary fence and the curb is used for power and phone poles, motor vehicle warning signs, advertising stands, motorbikes, and quite often, food stalls.

Often, the street seems to offer the only open space.

T.I.T.!

[drnkurmlkshk]

I think Thailand is an awesome place to live as an adult. Things are cheaper and we can make the choice to get out of the rat race. It is just a lot more laid back - if you don't want a high speed life. With that said, I would never raise a kid here unless I had a really good reason to! I firmly believe that kids who grow up here will have less opportunities than back in a developed country. I really do love Thailand but I have to strongly question what the country has contributed to the world. In a developed western country maybe your kid becomes the next Google founder. I don't see that happening here. Your kids will be surrounded by less motivated people, likely have a worse education and have a lot less job opportunities. Maybe your kid decides they want to move to a country like Thailand when they grow up, anyway. But at least they made the decision themselves and you didn't take options away from them.

Also something to think about is that it often gets said that Thailand attracts the worst from the west. I doubt your kids will be mingling with Thais... and so think of the people they are going to be surrounded by. Yeah there are some good people out here, but the percent of quality westerners is just lower here.

I know I'll be getting a lot of people reasonably upset with this post. I am not looking for a debate here - especially on this forum. This is just my opinion.

So in summary I think moving out here may or may not be good for you but it will be bad for your kids.

Edited November 18, 2012 by drnkurmlkshk

[AfterLOS]

the sf bay area has one of the highest quality of life indexes anywhere?? if you can afford it.

one thing i dislike about cm and thailand in general is the lack of sidewalks outside the main roads. sooner or later im looking to get clipped eventually.

most times there is no cushion, so a car or bike must be willing to move around you for you to not get hit. not comforting considering the amount of drinking that goes on here. this would be a safety issue for children.

Your stomach, bum and other cushions are so huge it would create a traffic jam on any sidewalk anywhere, west or east.

Edited December 2, 2012 by AfterLOS

[alfieconn]

I would never raise a kid here unless I had a really good reason to! I firmly believe that kids who grow up here will have less opportunities than back in a developed country.

Less opportunities to get into a good profession ?

[alfieconn]

Also something to think about is that it often gets said that Thailand attracts the worst from the west.

Would you like to elaborate on that point !

[hellodolly]

Also something to think about is that it often gets said that Thailand attracts the worst from the west.

Would you like to elaborate on that point !

Try to make it intelligent also. Remember some of us have been to other countries and know that Thailand is not as bad as many on this board would love to make you believe.

[mogoso]

So many folk complain about the quality of schools, yet as a parent you can also add to your children's knowledge by doing a bit of Home Schooling. What ever the subjects I daresay many on this board should be able to get them to the equal of a high school education, before sending them off to a University. A few home schooling study guides and your own knowledge should blend in well with what they learn in Thai Schools. The blend would be good for the child. just an opinion

[drnkurmlkshk]

Less opportunities to get into a good profession ?

Yup. Think of the extra barrier to entry on going to college back in the west, for example. And the schools are of much higher quality back home - I'll state that as a fact, which maybe you disagree with.

The simple fact is that most westerners living out here are either on a pension, inheritance or work as an English teacher. Yeah, this isn't all... but it is a huge % of people making what I consider to be a crappy living (well I guess some of the inheritance camp are quite comfortable).

Even the "bad" professions are better in the USA. If your kid turns out to be not the most intelligent, not exactly motivated... well what exactly will they do for money at all in Thailand? In the USA a person like this could pick up a trade skill of some sort with relative ease and still make good money. Or even the difference between a seriously demotivated person... they are making a quarter of what they do in the USA out here in Thailand in a job like 7/11, and prices aren't *that* much higher back home.

Would you like to elaborate on that point !

Instead writing a whole thesis here are some bullet points:

* Lots of westerners living out here start drinking first thing in the morning, most days. This seemed quite rare in the USA.

* The large number of old guys living out here on a pension mostly for one reason - and these are the same folks that complain when the price goes up a bit, because heaven forbid those girls make a bit more money

* The English teachers out here seriously lack the ability to plan for their life. Living paycheck to paycheck in Thailand, with no/little pension, shows a serious shortsightedness. Many of these folks have no insurance and no means of paying an unexpected bill. This is a burden on their families and their countries. To me that is selfish and this is a lot of the westerners living out here. Sorry if this bit offends anyone.

* Most of the people who move here are voluntarily installing a "glass ceiling" on their life. I know of seriously few "successful" westerners living in Thailand. I am not saying they don't exist - like the guy that made Dukes seems to do alright. But they are few and far between.

* The main thing that seems to attract people to Thailand is the lower cost of living. When you put some thought into this it really just boils down to, "I want more for less... I want to work less hard." I am not saying that that is even a bad thing. But I am saying that being surrounded by people like this is going to limit the number of opportunities your kids will get from the other westerners living here.

[wigantojapan]

you mentioned that it has always been a dream of yours to live in Asia.

What hope and aspirations do you have o or forf your children?

you also mentioned that you have travelled in Asian cities before

,What kinds of things would you like the CM experience to rub of on yourself as well as your children?

Like previous posters stated there are a huge variety of farang in CM with various interests

The more interesting and open minded dont neccesary post on here haha,but they are about

Like stated before the children can have a life of sorts that you had when you were your age living in a less fearful world.

Thais are great people and you will find the majority very welcoming of you,like vast parts of London in the 60s haha.

Again possibyl if i knew your aspirations and lifestyle i could possibly point you in the right direction