Ten Easy Steps To Selling A Country.

[robitusson]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/11...on_20000716.php

Ten easy steps to selling a country

At the end of 2000, just before Thaksin came to power, the market value of Shin Corp was Bt46.1 billion.

The Shinawatra and Damapong families and their sundry household staff probably owned about half – say Bt23 billion. This stake has just been sold for Bt73.3 billion. It roughly tripled over five years, a rate of growth of 26 per cent. Not bad when the economy is growing at around 5 per cent. All boats rise, but some rise a lot more than others.

Of course, you would also like to do that well, so here is an easy guide.

1. Before you can sell a country, you first have to acquire one. Business is fine, but the rate of return improves magnificently when business is combined with political power. It’s usually quite difficult to buy a country on the open market, but after a devastating financial crisis, the price weakens, and most competitors are taken out of the picture. (Chang Noi offered advice on “Ten easy steps to buying a country” on July 31, 2000.)

2. Acquire some politicians. Their price is surprisingly reasonable. Buying in job lots is more efficient (sometimes called party mergers), but the basic principle is to acquire any who are not nailed down. Your target should be to acquire the number needed to ensure that parliament cannot submit you to any serious scrutiny.

3. Have a core business in which the profit level is ultimately determined by government rules rather than market competition. A licensed-casino monopoly would be perfect, but a good second-best is a near-monopoly business operating under a government concession with a built-in advantage over competitors. Then all you have to do is keep the existing arrangements in place, sabotage the regulatory environment, delay calls for market liberalisation, even improve your own concession terms, if you’re feeling ambitious. Competitors will wear themselves out complaining about playing fields not being level, while you maintain your market share and profit level.

4. Diversify into areas where government actions can again have a significant impact on returns. Tax holidays under investment-promotion rules or cheap finance from public-sector banks are good. Best is to buy a business that is unprofitable because of a strict government-licensing agreement and high concession fees. Then simply tearing up the agreement and lowering the concession fee will have a spectacular effect on profits. It’s also a good idea to diversify into areas where you know government policies should improve the prospects, such as air travel or healthcare or personal finance. And work on that idea of a casino monopoly in the future.

5. Stamp hard on any possible sources of scrutiny or criticism. Buy up any television stations that are on the market. Reverse any trend towards liberalisation in electronic media that are under state control. Whip the press into line by threatening their bottom lines. Get friends to buy stakes in newspapers that still don’t understand. Close down any production companies, radio stations, websites or satellite television channels that utter a squeak of criticism. Put friends in all regulatory and oversight bodies. Harass non-governmental organisations. Ridicule intellectuals. Intimidate everybody with a lethal anti-drug campaign. Strew the country with defamation suits. Pour scorn on democracy, rights and the rule of law.

6. Be absolutely clear about what you’re doing. Say things like, “As a prime minister, my motto is: you must be rich and don’t stop becoming richer!”

7. Get the most respectable bank in the country to finance and otherwise assist some of the most flagrant deals. This makes things look a little bit better all round. Banks generally have no conscience, so this is quite easy to organise.

8. Sell while you are still in power. This is vital. Your family companies are worth a lot more when investors believe you have the power to improve their profits. Sell to another country where business and politics are delicately intertwined and potential criticism kept well under control. This will maximise mutual understanding. Shortly before the sale, engineer a few changes in the laws and regulations, raising the deal’s attractiveness to the buyer. Only you are in a position to do such things, so don’t be shy. Choose the sales method that minimises tax liability. In the process, you might have to break several other laws and rules, such as disclosure obligations, foreign-shareholding limits or whatever. Don’t worry about these, because the penalties are minor, and anyway you are the boss of the people who impose any penalties. Tax laws can change with the seasons. Precedents are meaningless. Make sure all of the relevant regulatory bodies and government departments are ready to mount a smokescreen. Officials don’t need to know any details; just keep telling them: “The prime minister can do no wrong.” Don’t get sentimental about how these people might feel inside. Conscience is a luxury. This is about money. Have a team of Dobermanns on the government payroll, to snarl and snap at any critics.

9. Take no notice of the international reaction. The foreign press will start to portray your country as a banana republic run by some murderous kleptomaniac. Take no notice. Forget that you have constantly accused your own critics of damaging the country’s image. Forget that you came to power by sledging your opponents for selling the country. Since you own the country, nationalism is whatever helps you.

10. There is one regulatory body not under your control: the Big One. There’s some risk that you could come back as a flea or even get stranded in the Lokanta [a level of hel_l mentioned in Thai literature] depths. Try bargaining. Promise to give away all of your property several times over in your next life. This would be only a bit more outrageous than what you promise people at election time. It might work.

Chang Noi is a pseudonym.

CHANG NOI

The Nation

[Tippaporn]

Very cleverly written.

[p414]

Very cleverly written.

Harold Macmillan did it in one easy step to the once proud islands of Great Britain.

To destroy the power of the unions and the unity of the british working class he recruited immigrant trash from the rubbish dumps of the west indies where they were eking out a living and gave them grants to buy houses, money to raise foul offspring that could then harass and rob the docile natives and send them in rushing in droves out of the inner cities[which were then repopulated by more relatives of immigrants].Gave them free health[immigrants that is] free schooling,monetary benefits which was far more than they ever made in the caribbean.Gave them the right to vote[ which meant they had to be given more benefits to see they voted the right way].etc

This practice has been carried on by successive governments in England till we reach the position that we no longer know what an englishman is.

[robitusson]

Very cleverly written.

Harold Macmillan did it in one easy step to the once proud islands of Great Britain.

To destroy the power of the unions and the unity of the british working class he recruited immigrant trash from the rubbish dumps of the west indies where they were eking out a living and gave them grants to buy houses, money to raise foul offspring that could then harass and rob the docile natives and send them in rushing in droves out of the inner cities[which were then repopulated by more relatives of immigrants].Gave them free health[immigrants that is] free schooling,monetary benefits which was far more than they ever made in the caribbean.Gave them the right to vote[ which meant they had to be given more benefits to see they voted the right way].etc

This practice has been carried on by successive governments in England till we reach the position that we no longer know what an englishman is.

Speak your mind now, don't be shy.

[Rinrada]

O dear- dear.......and what did the Romans ever do for us......(86 BC)

[saeb]

Oooeerrrr.....Meester P414.........studied selective history did we?.

Wasn't it something to do with them being commonwealth citizens after all?.

And, ahem, were they not recruited to fill the jobs that you fine upstanding English

chaps wouldn't lower yourselves to do?.

And after all - England is the commonwealth isn't it?. There are other wee bits in the

U.K. you know.

Do you ever go for a curry?. England's national food I believe.

Intereresting though : Just what is an Englishman?. Colonized by Danes, Saxons,

French (ha-ha-ha-ha), with a royal family descended from Germans and Hungarians

and Greeks.

Hoo-hoo - and of course James 1st was Scots. (Alas Queen Mary of Scots got stiffed

by Liz 1st - 80% French).

I remember now, English. Red roses, pug ugly dogs, Churchill fighting on the beaches, laying flowers for Diana, playing the piano in the underground whilst London burned, boring tasteless food,

and a god given right to win every football match ever.

And you should see the women...............aaaargghhh.

Brilliant ; Thank goodness for culture.

[edh]

Hear Hear!

Oooeerrrr.....Meester P414.........studied selective history did we?.

Wasn't it something to do with them being commonwealth citizens after all?.

And, ahem, were they not recruited to fill the jobs that you fine upstanding English

chaps wouldn't lower yourselves to do?.

And after all - England is the commonwealth isn't it?. There are other wee bits in the

U.K. you know.

Do you ever go for a curry?. England's national food I believe.

Intereresting though : Just what is an Englishman?. Colonized by Danes, Saxons,

French (ha-ha-ha-ha), with a royal family descended from Germans and Hungarians

and Greeks.

Hoo-hoo - and of course James 1st was Scots. (Alas Queen Mary of Scots got stiffed

by Liz 1st - 80% French).

I remember now, English. Red roses, pug ugly dogs, Churchill fighting on the beaches, laying flowers for Diana, playing the piano in the underground whilst London burned, boring tasteless food,

and a god given right to win every football match ever.

And you should see the women...............aaaargghhh.

Brilliant ; Thank goodness for culture.

[phuketsiam]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/11...on_20000716.php

Ten easy steps to selling a country

At the end of 2000, just before Thaksin came to power, the market value of Shin Corp was Bt46.1 billion.

The Shinawatra and Damapong families and their sundry household staff probably owned about half – say Bt23 billion. This stake has just been sold for Bt73.3 billion. It roughly tripled over five years, a rate of growth of 26 per cent. Not bad when the economy is growing at around 5 per cent. All boats rise, but some rise a lot more than others.

Of course, you would also like to do that well, so here is an easy guide.

1. Before you can sell a country, you first have to acquire one. Business is fine, but the rate of return improves magnificently when business is combined with political power. It’s usually quite difficult to buy a country on the open market, but after a devastating financial crisis, the price weakens, and most competitors are taken out of the picture. (Chang Noi offered advice on “Ten easy steps to buying a country” on July 31, 2000.)

2. Acquire some politicians. Their price is surprisingly reasonable. Buying in job lots is more efficient (sometimes called party mergers), but the basic principle is to acquire any who are not nailed down. Your target should be to acquire the number needed to ensure that parliament cannot submit you to any serious scrutiny.

3. Have a core business in which the profit level is ultimately determined by government rules rather than market competition. A licensed-casino monopoly would be perfect, but a good second-best is a near-monopoly business operating under a government concession with a built-in advantage over competitors. Then all you have to do is keep the existing arrangements in place, sabotage the regulatory environment, delay calls for market liberalisation, even improve your own concession terms, if you’re feeling ambitious. Competitors will wear themselves out complaining about playing fields not being level, while you maintain your market share and profit level.

4. Diversify into areas where government actions can again have a significant impact on returns. Tax holidays under investment-promotion rules or cheap finance from public-sector banks are good. Best is to buy a business that is unprofitable because of a strict government-licensing agreement and high concession fees. Then simply tearing up the agreement and lowering the concession fee will have a spectacular effect on profits. It’s also a good idea to diversify into areas where you know government policies should improve the prospects, such as air travel or healthcare or personal finance. And work on that idea of a casino monopoly in the future.

5. Stamp hard on any possible sources of scrutiny or criticism. Buy up any television stations that are on the market. Reverse any trend towards liberalisation in electronic media that are under state control. Whip the press into line by threatening their bottom lines. Get friends to buy stakes in newspapers that still don’t understand. Close down any production companies, radio stations, websites or satellite television channels that utter a squeak of criticism. Put friends in all regulatory and oversight bodies. Harass non-governmental organisations. Ridicule intellectuals. Intimidate everybody with a lethal anti-drug campaign. Strew the country with defamation suits. Pour scorn on democracy, rights and the rule of law.

6. Be absolutely clear about what you’re doing. Say things like, “As a prime minister, my motto is: you must be rich and don’t stop becoming richer!”

7. Get the most respectable bank in the country to finance and otherwise assist some of the most flagrant deals. This makes things look a little bit better all round. Banks generally have no conscience, so this is quite easy to organise.

8. Sell while you are still in power. This is vital. Your family companies are worth a lot more when investors believe you have the power to improve their profits. Sell to another country where business and politics are delicately intertwined and potential criticism kept well under control. This will maximise mutual understanding. Shortly before the sale, engineer a few changes in the laws and regulations, raising the deal’s attractiveness to the buyer. Only you are in a position to do such things, so don’t be shy. Choose the sales method that minimises tax liability. In the process, you might have to break several other laws and rules, such as disclosure obligations, foreign-shareholding limits or whatever. Don’t worry about these, because the penalties are minor, and anyway you are the boss of the people who impose any penalties. Tax laws can change with the seasons. Precedents are meaningless. Make sure all of the relevant regulatory bodies and government departments are ready to mount a smokescreen. Officials don’t need to know any details; just keep telling them: “The prime minister can do no wrong.” Don’t get sentimental about how these people might feel inside. Conscience is a luxury. This is about money. Have a team of Dobermanns on the government payroll, to snarl and snap at any critics.

9. Take no notice of the international reaction. The foreign press will start to portray your country as a banana republic run by some murderous kleptomaniac. Take no notice. Forget that you have constantly accused your own critics of damaging the country’s image. Forget that you came to power by sledging your opponents for selling the country. Since you own the country, nationalism is whatever helps you.

10. There is one regulatory body not under your control: the Big One. There’s some risk that you could come back as a flea or even get stranded in the Lokanta [a level of hel_l mentioned in Thai literature] depths. Try bargaining. Promise to give away all of your property several times over in your next life. This would be only a bit more outrageous than what you promise people at election time. It might work.

Chang Noi is a pseudonym.

CHANG NOI

The Nation

I liked this one though, summed it all up nicely

[saeb]

Hear Hear!

And of course..........wot's her face, Vera Gin who sung all about the White Cliffs of Dover.

She liked them so much she spent her life living on the Isle of Capri.

"Ooohh how we luvved her simple little songs whilst the bombs rained down".

"Bloody Germans look wot they dun to the chippie darn the road".

Churchill loved England so much he retired to Italy.

But then again - he had enough loot not to have to live in postwar U.K.

If you ain't born within the sound of the Bow Bells then you ain't a Londoner.

Ergo - not born in the centre of the universe.

I always thought the East End was a massive slum with the inhabitants living in mostly,

squalor. Maybe Goering did them a favour?.

'Course..... the streets wus safe to walk in in them days'.

Yea, right ; The Krays were just misunderstood boys who needed a good social worker.

The needed sent off to a Siberian gulag or a Chinese re-education camp.

Or as with an unstable dog, taken out back and shot.

Great fun this!.

[wolf5370]

I didn't agree with P414's comments, but it was obviously bigoted. However, I think Saeb takes the biscuit as a complete twerp! It is easy to pick on England. The English do it themselves all the time. However, when you are slated them, at least have the decency to actual know <deleted> you are talking about!

And, ahem, were they not recruited to fill the jobs that you fine upstanding English

chaps wouldn't lower yourselves to do?.

People were brought in from the West Indies in the 50's to fill empty jobs on the railways etc. This was a logical idea, and no different from the immigration policy of just about any rich country. The UK still does it for jobs in the NHS for example (national Health Service). The workers were required as so many had been lost during the war and Britain needed rebuilding. A little country taking on the might of Germany, which had already taken most of Europe and was moving across Africa and East too.

Do you ever go for a curry?. England's national food I believe.

Curry is not England's NATIONAL dish - it IS its most popular meal. It goes to show the multi-cultural, ethnically diverse, population that Britain boasts. There is a difference you know. However, many of the Curry's that people eat in the West were invented in the UK by both British and British Immigrants for the Western palette. Also, note that ALL curry's can be attributed to the Portuguese, who brought Chilli from South America. It was Western trade that gave China, India, Thailand, Japan and Malaysia its curries.

Intereresting though : Just what is an Englishman?. Colonized by Danes, Saxons,

French (ha-ha-ha-ha), with a royal family descended from Germans and Hungarians

and Greeks.

OK, we are now talking ancient history are we. The most modern you go is the "French" bit with the Normans in 1066 (that's nearly a thousand years back - when did your Nation last loose a war?). By the way, if you actually knew anything, you would know the Normans were not French in 1066 as they had been conquered by the Saxons half a decade previously - so that's Saxons again! William was the Saxon king of Normandy!!!

All European Royal Families are inter-related. Royals marry royals. It avoids wars!!! I take it you come from a Nation without its own history.

England is the commonwealth isn't it?.

er, no it isn't. The commonwealth is countries that have joined together under the banner of the Commonwealth under HRH Queen Elizabeth the second - and they were not all countries Britain had included in its Empire either - some countries requested to join.

Churchill liked Italy and spent time there painting - one of his passions - between his two Prime Ministerially terms. He was given American citizenship by Act of Congress in the 50's, but he died in London at his home at Hyde Park Gate aged 90. He not only had enough cash not to live in the UK, he has enough to live in the UK. That's why he lived in London and served another term following his initial defeat to Labour.

boring tasteless food

Britain sports some of the best Chef's and best restaurants in the world - its a fact, sorry. However, there is a wide selection of American fast food places if you'd prefer to eat congealed fat instead and chemicals instead! Also, see above about Curries. Britain also took rice to India, potatoes to Ireland (where little else grew); it created the great tea plantations in Asia and the coffee plantations in Africa.

Thank goodness for Culture

Yes, thank goodness for culture.

Were music stars choose to live is not really worth discussing as we do not know why they made such a decision. One would assume that it was the weather rather than the 'culture' (as you imply) that made Vera Lynn's decision. Why did Madonna choose London?

The Krays!!! Are you for real. In a world of Gangsters - from the Mafia's Al Copone to the Yakuza, the Russian Mafia, the Triads even the Thai Mafia - the Kray's were choir boys by comparison. I might also add that when the Kray's run the parts of London that they did - there were other gangs like the Richardsons - London in the 1950s and 1960s was one of the safest places to live in the UK; somewhere you could leave your door unlocked at night and the elderly got the respect they deserved. Child crime was non existent, rape was rare.

I always thought the East End was a massive slum with the inhabitants living in mostly,

squalor.

You show the reason for your ignorance in the rest of your post with this statement - YOU THINK - i.e. you haven't a clue. Let me say that even at its poorest, the East End of London (or any part there of London) was always less of slum than you'll find in parts of New York today - and much less than you can find in Asia (even LoS). Glass houses mate - keep your stones in your pocket!

If you ain't born within the sound of the Bow Bells then you ain't a Londoner.

Ergo - not born in the centre of the universe.

Nope, wrong again. You have to be born in LONDON to be a LONDONer - obvious really - somewhat like needing to be born in New York to be a New Yorker - DOH! The sound of Bow Bells is to be a Cockney. Cockneys were the poorest of the Londoners in times gone by (Victorian times), so it gave them a sense of belonging. Cockneys helped each other out. No non-cockney would have wanted to be one - so the rest of your statement is ridiculous (as are both of your posts of course).

Maybe Goering did them a favour?.

I am very confused by this statement. Are you suggesting any race of people would be better off being killed? Are you really that sick? If you were German, you would be ashamed by such a statement - and perhaps reminded of how ugly this would have been remembering Dresden as a point of reference. If you were from an Allied country, then you should be doubly ashamed. Think what happened in Pearl Harbour - imagine if that had been a major city. Think about the twin towers and the potential loss of life there - and multiply by several orders of magnitude. Anyone to say such a thing and mean it need to see a shrink post haste! Anyone saying such a thing and not meaning it is a complete fool. Which are you?

Edited February 11, 2006 by wolf5370

[thaibebop]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/11...on_20000716.php

Ten easy steps to selling a country

At the end of 2000, just before Thaksin came to power, the market value of Shin Corp was Bt46.1 billion.

The Shinawatra and Damapong families and their sundry household staff probably owned about half – say Bt23 billion. This stake has just been sold for Bt73.3 billion. It roughly tripled over five years, a rate of growth of 26 per cent. Not bad when the economy is growing at around 5 per cent. All boats rise, but some rise a lot more than others.

Of course, you would also like to do that well, so here is an easy guide.

1. Before you can sell a country, you first have to acquire one. Business is fine, but the rate of return improves magnificently when business is combined with political power. It’s usually quite difficult to buy a country on the open market, but after a devastating financial crisis, the price weakens, and most competitors are taken out of the picture. (Chang Noi offered advice on “Ten easy steps to buying a country” on July 31, 2000.)

2. Acquire some politicians. Their price is surprisingly reasonable. Buying in job lots is more efficient (sometimes called party mergers), but the basic principle is to acquire any who are not nailed down. Your target should be to acquire the number needed to ensure that parliament cannot submit you to any serious scrutiny.

3. Have a core business in which the profit level is ultimately determined by government rules rather than market competition. A licensed-casino monopoly would be perfect, but a good second-best is a near-monopoly business operating under a government concession with a built-in advantage over competitors. Then all you have to do is keep the existing arrangements in place, sabotage the regulatory environment, delay calls for market liberalisation, even improve your own concession terms, if you’re feeling ambitious. Competitors will wear themselves out complaining about playing fields not being level, while you maintain your market share and profit level.

4. Diversify into areas where government actions can again have a significant impact on returns. Tax holidays under investment-promotion rules or cheap finance from public-sector banks are good. Best is to buy a business that is unprofitable because of a strict government-licensing agreement and high concession fees. Then simply tearing up the agreement and lowering the concession fee will have a spectacular effect on profits. It’s also a good idea to diversify into areas where you know government policies should improve the prospects, such as air travel or healthcare or personal finance. And work on that idea of a casino monopoly in the future.

5. Stamp hard on any possible sources of scrutiny or criticism. Buy up any television stations that are on the market. Reverse any trend towards liberalisation in electronic media that are under state control. Whip the press into line by threatening their bottom lines. Get friends to buy stakes in newspapers that still don’t understand. Close down any production companies, radio stations, websites or satellite television channels that utter a squeak of criticism. Put friends in all regulatory and oversight bodies. Harass non-governmental organisations. Ridicule intellectuals. Intimidate everybody with a lethal anti-drug campaign. Strew the country with defamation suits. Pour scorn on democracy, rights and the rule of law.

6. Be absolutely clear about what you’re doing. Say things like, “As a prime minister, my motto is: you must be rich and don’t stop becoming richer!”

7. Get the most respectable bank in the country to finance and otherwise assist some of the most flagrant deals. This makes things look a little bit better all round. Banks generally have no conscience, so this is quite easy to organise.

8. Sell while you are still in power. This is vital. Your family companies are worth a lot more when investors believe you have the power to improve their profits. Sell to another country where business and politics are delicately intertwined and potential criticism kept well under control. This will maximise mutual understanding. Shortly before the sale, engineer a few changes in the laws and regulations, raising the deal’s attractiveness to the buyer. Only you are in a position to do such things, so don’t be shy. Choose the sales method that minimises tax liability. In the process, you might have to break several other laws and rules, such as disclosure obligations, foreign-shareholding limits or whatever. Don’t worry about these, because the penalties are minor, and anyway you are the boss of the people who impose any penalties. Tax laws can change with the seasons. Precedents are meaningless. Make sure all of the relevant regulatory bodies and government departments are ready to mount a smokescreen. Officials don’t need to know any details; just keep telling them: “The prime minister can do no wrong.” Don’t get sentimental about how these people might feel inside. Conscience is a luxury. This is about money. Have a team of Dobermanns on the government payroll, to snarl and snap at any critics.

9. Take no notice of the international reaction. The foreign press will start to portray your country as a banana republic run by some murderous kleptomaniac. Take no notice. Forget that you have constantly accused your own critics of damaging the country’s image. Forget that you came to power by sledging your opponents for selling the country. Since you own the country, nationalism is whatever helps you.

10. There is one regulatory body not under your control: the Big One. There’s some risk that you could come back as a flea or even get stranded in the Lokanta [a level of hel_l mentioned in Thai literature] depths. Try bargaining. Promise to give away all of your property several times over in your next life. This would be only a bit more outrageous than what you promise people at election time. It might work.

Chang Noi is a pseudonym.

CHANG NOI

The Nation

Sounds like someone read The Prince.

[wolf359]

Oooeerrrr.....Meester P414.........studied selective history did we?.

Wasn't it something to do with them being commonwealth citizens after all?.

And, ahem, were they not recruited to fill the jobs that you fine upstanding English

chaps wouldn't lower yourselves to do?.

And after all - England is the commonwealth isn't it?. There are other wee bits in the

U.K. you know.

Do you ever go for a curry?. England's national food I believe.

Intereresting though : Just what is an Englishman?. Colonized by Danes, Saxons,

French (ha-ha-ha-ha), with a royal family descended from Germans and Hungarians

and Greeks.

Hoo-hoo - and of course James 1st was Scots. (Alas Queen Mary of Scots got stiffed

by Liz 1st - 80% French).

I remember now, English. Red roses, pug ugly dogs, Churchill fighting on the beaches, laying flowers for Diana, playing the piano in the underground whilst London burned, boring tasteless food,

and a god given right to win every football match ever.

And you should see the women...............aaaargghhh.

Brilliant ; Thank goodness for culture.

It never ceases to amaze me how somebody will take this opportunity to rubbish a country, if you do not like England fine, never go there, never buy anything that has been made there, never have anything to do with an Englishman I am sure that England will survive, but at least have the courage to tell us where you are from! and then we will understand why you hate the English,

so but from where I am standing you are a uninformed bigot.

P414 somebody who has lived in these times patriot or bigot? P414 I am glad you had the courage to speak out, the only sad thing is that you would not be able to say such things in England!

and that sums uo what P414 is trying to say.

[moonoi]

P414 somebody who has lived in these times patriot or bigot? P414 I am glad you had the courage to speak out, the only sad thing is that you would not be able to say such things in England!

and that sums uo what P414 is trying to say.

Well actually they would be able to say such things. The uk prides itself on its right to free speech. You could quite easily say these things, doesn't matter if its true or not. Just have to be careful of laws such as the incitement of religious hatred / incitement of violence etc. The statement made by P414 probably would be ok, its plain wrong, but theres nothing to stop it being said.

And all that would happen in the UK is exactly what has happened on this forum. A point by point rebuttal of all false statements in this case by wolf5370 (which was very educated and interesting too I might add)

I suspect if P414 is British he/she would feel right at home with the BNP (thats British National Party for those who don't know). Sounds like the ridiculous crap the leaders of that party regularly spout

So I have to disagree with your assessment of whay P414 is trying to say, its just uninformed bigoted crap and nothing to do with free speech

I was born and brought up in the UK btw so I know what I am talking about (but I hold 2 nationalities )

Edited February 12, 2006 by moonoi

[sierra01]

P414 and Saeb, what a couple of idiots. Misinformed, ungrateful, disrespectful and a waste of space.

[wolf359]

P414 somebody who has lived in these times patriot or bigot? P414 I am glad you had the courage to speak out, the only sad thing is that you would not be able to say such things in England!

and that sums uo what P414 is trying to say.

Well actually they would be able to say such things. The uk prides itself on its right to free speech. You could quite easily say these things, doesn't matter if its true or not. Just have to be careful of laws such as the incitement of religious hatred / incitement of violence etc. The statement made by P414 probably would be ok, its plain wrong, but theres nothing to stop it being said.

And all that would happen in the UK is exactly what has happened on this forum. A point by point rebuttal of all false statements in this case by wolf5370 (which was very educated and interesting too I might add)

I suspect if P414 is British he/she would feel right at home with the BNP (thats British National Party for those who don't know). Sounds like the ridiculous crap the leaders of that party regularly spout

So I have to disagree with your assessment of whay P414 is trying to say, its just uninformed bigoted crap and nothing to do with free speech

I was born and brought up in the UK btw so I know what I am talking about (but I hold 2 nationalities )

It is one of the most interesting things these days to say that a country has 'free speech' only to find they do not! its 'free speech' as long as you think the way the goverment thinks you should! but we have not been able to say what we want to for years.

P414's statement is a warning and time will prove him/her right or wrong and how can it be uninformed if he/she has lived throught it?

[phuketsiam]

I thought this thread was about Thaksin selling out his country?

[otherstuff1957]

Ok, I'm going to be both off topic and somewhat pedantic here, BUT, William the Conquerer wasn't a Saxon and the Saxons didn't invade Normany half a decade before the Normans invaded England.

William was Norman French, which means that his ancestors were Scandanavias (probably from Norway or Denmark) who had settled in northern France on or before 911 - which was a century and a half before the Norman conquest, not half a decade.

[slackula]

<snip>

but at least have the courage to tell us where you are from! and then we will understand why you hate the English,

</snip>

I'm Welsh so I guess I have some right to dislike the English.

But I don't, I pity them: after all they have to live in England.

hahahaha, I crack me up!

[Sing_Sling]

P414 and Saeb, what a couple of idiots. Misinformed, ungrateful, disrespectful and a waste of space.

And just how do they show they are being ungrateful - and for what?

Waste of space? Hardly. Entertaining? Definitely.

If you can't take banter, written in a witty manner, probably by Brits, then why bother reading it.

[sierra01]

P414 and Saeb, what a couple of idiots. Misinformed, ungrateful, disrespectful and a waste of space.

And just how do they show they are being ungrateful - and for what?

Waste of space? Hardly. Entertaining? Definitely.

If you can't take banter, written in a witty manner, probably by Brits, then why bother reading it.

You have no idea? Read their posts again.

[Ricardo]

Personally I thought p414's post was racist revisionist clap-trap. While defending his right to hold such views.

But I object to it, on the more relevant grounds, that it is so far that it should be left Off-Forum. And I say that, as someone who occasionally wanders myself slightly off the playing-field, in the heat of the moment.

Can we get back to the excellent article by CHANG NOI, from which we were very successfully (and deliberately ?) distracted, by the other post ?

Edited February 12, 2006 by Ricardo

[saeb]

The whole point is to provoke a discussion about what is essentially rascism.

It is THE subject that is bound to sort out the fundamentals of how an individual views

not only his or her own culture, but also of how they view other peoples and cultures.

Certainly, Thaksin has sold off Thailand, but so have so many who have held the same office

before him.

How about Big Jeaw?. Now creeping his way back in the wings to pick up whatever he can

scavenge?.

Never, ever, forget that he was the nice chappie, who on a 'whim' decided to float the Baht

on the international market.

An ex (retired - yea sure) general who is an expert on the world financial markets?.

He did not de-value the currency he floated it.

And of course it was a farang (George Soros) who picked up the flack.

Naturally, of course, never, ever, did any of his mates know any of this beforehand and none

of them moved their money abroad to take advantage of this situation.

To think such things!.

My point was in answer to the idiot rascist meester 414 was just this - let us all have a look around

and see who gets the blame when the going gets a little difficult in a country.

Sure Thaksin will sell out - he has no personal morality concerning Thailand or the Thai people.

I presume he stills adheres to Bhuddist principles?. Well, it's his future.

But bigots and racists in any country should be wound up - it is an absolute.

To the chap or chapess who dismantled my view of English history - please get the joke.

It was written that way for a reason.

(See line one).

P.S. I am U.K. born, however I can see the faults in my native society - but BNP style rants will always make me wish to send them to work in a T.B. ward in Pakistan or Nigeria for a bit of re-education.

Not so long ago we had T.B. in this country......................One of my Mum's sisters died from it in 1943.

Thanks.

[p414]

'Winston Churchill stated in parliament in 1956

' The biggest threat to Britain at this time is the prospect of mass coloured immigration'.

He started a bill which would have prevented 'rights of residence'[it happens in thailand-I have no problem with that].

Through ill health churchill had to resign .Eventually Harold Macmillan became P.M. and wanted to break the power of the unions and the unity of the working class.

He allowed big business,the national health service and london transport to go to the rubbish dumps of the caribbean and india and recruit illiterates as workers. This to fill jobs that were poorly paid. It would have been far cheaper to have given a decent salary for this work [they do now] .There were plenty of unemployed in england already.

America did the same in the 20's and 30's...They were called what they were..'Strike breakers'

The young families of britain who were still on rationing and were just rebuilding their lives after the war did not deserve to have this trash housed [at their expense] on their tidy estates. These newcomers had no use for a front garden other than as somewhere to store their old fridges,prams, soiled mattresses and other junk until they could sell it as salvage.

The British workers were then informed that anything anti immigration was a return to the days of Hitler.People who until this time left keys in their doors, worked in their front gardens now closed doors and stayed inside.When the immigrants started moving into the suburbs the government ,to keep the white collar workers silent invented a disgusting character'Alf Garnet' with a wife you would not wish on your worst enemy to ensure none of the middle class or office workers[ A powerful voice] would speak out against this trash pouring into Britain for fear of being branded another Alf Garnet.

I have no objection to the rules laid down by the thai government for allowing me the PRIVILEGE of living in this fine country.

I do object to the trash that were handed the keys to my country and who despise the british people for allowing it to happen.

[astral]

This practice has been carried on by successive governments in England till we reach the position that we no longer know what an englishman is.

I went back to the UK last year, after about 7 years away.

I was surprised to see how few white faces are left..................

As for the Thai side.

Perhaps we can sell the US on the idea that Thailand has Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Then they could invade.

Throw out Thaksin

Give us the Wonderful American Way of Life...................

[OldAsiaHand]

Everybody hates everybody, don't they? This started out as a (reasonably) intelligent thread about the present political situtation in Thailand, coughed up a half-literate slam at the Brits, degenerated into the traditional cries of racism, and now the Americans are in the barrel. Gee, you guys are beautiful.

[astral]

Most is tongue in cheek...........

All good fun with a few serious comments.

We could certainly do with "someone" to depose old Toxin.

[englishoak]

well some interesting comment here,

I'm a Londoner 100% do I care about all the colours around me ? No...... do they add value to my country?....... yes are there too many? yes...... will things pan out? definately one way or the other.

No point harping on about what if, it's too late now anyway but i'm still proud to be English

Is the UK free of corruption ok if you think so

Have you noticed how many none thai's are around? running business. Mabe not too many falangs but certainly chinese, arab,indian etc, Funny thing is I don't like the idea of being restricted in business in Thailand but think that although it would boost the country no end it would also probably ruin it forever.

same same but different.

By the way did you know they have a toll road in and out of England/Wales ???

You have to pay to get in to England & rightly so too

[graham r]

The original article is very well written, but maybe we should let the Thais sort out their own problems. One of the things I treasure most about this country is the freedom in my personal life. People are correct, in my view, to slag off the UK, it has become a nation to be ashamed of. No freedom to say what you think, especially if it isn't PC. The BBC seems populated by muslim lovers, no criticism is allowed, it really is beyond a joke. I could never support the BNP, my wife is Thai, but they have as much right to have their views heard as the Muslim council of Britain, who seem to have an opinion on everything. Who are these people? It seems Thailand has about the same percentage of muslims as the UK but their voice is ( thankfully ) never heard. Maybe the UK should follow Thailands example. It seems to me that Thailand has evolved into the great country it is ( or why are we here? ), by following it's own way. Maybe we, as farangs, should keep out of Thai politics, I certainly wish muslims would keep sticking their noses into the UK's business.

[britainmal]

Let's stop trashing the good old Great Britain. The UK is a diverse country giving everybody the same equal rights . The issue we should be focusing is this fear of foreigner disease in Thailand. If Thailand feels like this it should live in isolation for a while unless it thinks it could be like Japan.