Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S

[DocN]

The Fox news accusations are getting old. Time to come up with something more original. Perhaps better informing yourselves would be a good start.

Amen. It's an easy way of insulting someone rather than having an intelligent discussion based on facts logic.

It's funny, I actually like Obama, but dislike Obamacare. People have called me a Foxtard as well.

Unfortunately there is no intelligent discussion to be held with most of people. I tried and had Obama called a "black muslim", a marxist, a communist, a socialist...on the "evidence" of health care that might be a little more controlled by the state (which is high time, me thinks, whenever I see reports on the private health insurance companies in the US. Maybe "Obamacare" is not the best alternative...but it IS an alternative!) or simple bits and pieces, cut together from interviews and speeches, that have nothing to do with the subject at all.

So I apologize for being sarcastic, if you are one of the serious, politically interested few on this forum.

Sorry 3SoiDog...maybe you are different

[3SoiDogNight]

Amen. It's an easy way of insulting someone rather than having an intelligent discussion based on facts logic.

It's funny, I actually like Obama, but dislike Obamacare. People have called me a Foxtard as well.

Join the club. It's strange being insulted simply for disagreeing with some of Obama's policies. I'm still a registered Democrat and I voted with the California Democratic party in the recent election to repeal the ridiculous '3-strikes' law. I was also happy to see Tammy Duckworth win a seat to the House of Representatives. I have 2 cousins and a friend that lives in her district and I persuaded them to vote for her.

As far as Obama's supporters go, it's a shame that they easily fly off the handle, shout you down, call you names and accuse you of watching Fox news over a simple disagreement. I NEVER seen this sort of hysteria when Bush, Clinton, Papa Bush or all other Presidents were in office.

The US is more divided than ever.

BTW, are you from Indiana LarryBird? I was born & raised in Gary. Moved to Los Angeles and then San Francisco. All are Democratic strongholds.

Unfortunately there is no intelligent discussion to be held with most of people. I tried and had Obama called a "black muslim", a marxist, a communist, a socialist...on the "evidence" of health care that might be a little more controlled by the state (which is high time, me thinks, whenever I see reports on the private health insurance companies in the US. Maybe "Obamacare" is not the best alternative...but it IS an alternative!) or simple bits and pieces, cut together from interviews and speeches, that have nothing to do with the subject at all.

So I apologize for being sarcastic, if you are one of the serious, politically interested few on this forum.

Sorry 3SoiDog...maybe you are different

Haha, I've been called "different" all my life. I was that weird kid that insisted on carrot cake instead of vanilla or chocolate like all the other kids. I was drinking micro-brews in high school while all the other guys were happy to get a case of Miller.

I'm not one to fall in line and cheer on with the rest of the flock. I can understand being enthusiastic about a politician (I volunteered on Terrence Hallinan's campaign 1999 and 2003 and volunteered on the 'NO' recall in California in 2003) but the Obama worship is just downright creepy. I don't like it one bit. People fainting at his rallies, the t-shirts, buttons, posters, women that have his posters in their bedrooms and I've even met married women say in front of their husbands that Obama is the only man they'd cheat on their husbands with. They aren't joking either.

I see Obama as a politician and nothing more. People get so caught up in the historical aspect of his Presidency and they lose sight of the fact that he is just a politician. It's strange!

He is good at running a campaign but that's about it. As a President, I think he is lousy and I've never seen a grown man point fingers, make excuses and blame others as much as Obama.

Obama has become the 3rd rail in American politics. You can't touch him without being burned and struck down and labelled a racist, ignorant, sellout or uncle Tom.

Anyone want to have a civil discussion with me in person, I'll be down at the bar at Bourbon Street. I have to bail.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Edited November 22, 2012 by 3SoiDogNight

[spidermike007]

Yes, all my democrat friends hate the fact that I watch fox news. What is so wrong with getting news from the other side? Is that not part of a democracy. One of the things I hate about Obama, is how much he demonized contrasting views. If you do not agree with him, you are evil. Is that democracy, or the makings of fascism? Why can't my friends, and for that matter most democrats even debate the issues, without resorting to Fox News slurs? I consider fox news to be a hilarious bit of extremism. But, like Russia Today, and Al Jazeera, they cover a different point of view. Watching CNN is like watching the White House News.

[spidermike007]

Dr Kuldep Nagi

Are you kidding? As an American, the LAST thing I'd want to see Thailand do is to adopt American styled 'democracy'. Keep the system you have in place. It may not be ideal but I fully understand why Thailand does things the way they do. There is nothing to get excited about with the re-election of Obama. I voted for him the first time around and was glad to see my country being able to elect a person of color to the White House. I was supportive of him initially until I ran out of reasons to support him and eventually voted against him. Obama used fear-mongering as well and played the race-card as well to win a second term. I've never seen an incompetent politician get so many free passes like Obama. People are so afraid to criticize him out of fear of being labelled a racist. The entitlement class has grown substantially in the United States and the number of freeloaders is growing and the number of job creators are decreasing.

The US debt is over $16TRILLION! ! !

There has always been an under-class of derelicts in the US that never participated in elections. Obama reached out to them with promises of free stuff; mobile phones, money, etc. Why on earth would Thailand want to copy that model? When I went to the polls in 2008, I saw all sorts of crack addicts and winos at the voting booth. Sure there were a lot of party-line liberal Democratic voters that voted for Obama but they were not the ones that put Obama over the top. It was the under-class that normally do not vote and the motivating factor that drove them to the polls was the expectation of free handouts. I love the US but my country is not a shining example of democracy and certainly nothing Thailand should copy.

Yes, he has been an utter failure. Many cannot, or will not see it. He is a fabricated construct, and his words, ideals, agenda, and platform could not be further from his actions, what he has done, or what he has failed to do, in the past 4 years. Do not even give me the nonsense about a gridlocked congress. That is what leadership is all about, if one has that ability, which Blundering Barry Obama does not! Makes you wonder. I too am a lifelong democrat, and disappointment cannot even begin to capture what I feel. Both the federal government, and the security apparatus have grown enormously under this guy, who appears to be a fascist dressed in liberal's clothing.

yeah right - his words, ideals and agenda had nothing to do with equal pay for women, ending the wars, heath care, yadayadayada.

You guys are just in denial of reality.

Yet he hasn't passed a single piece of legislation regarding women's pay (probably because there is laws already on the books that forbids this sort of discrimination), Obama hasn't ended (or won) any wars that he inherited from Bush and his health-care agenda is a joke because it doesn't cover everyone yet it will bring on new taxes, fees, penalties and fines. Hence the reason the IRS hired on 16,500 new agents the week after the Supreme Court ruled that Obamacare is simply a 'tax' which isn't unconstitutional.

So who is the one in "denial of reality"?

Exactly. What the white house will not discuss, is that little bit of fascism written into the law, that forces ALL Americans to be insured. If you are not, the fine for deciding to not participate goes up to $3,600 per year, within three years. Is that democracy, or a president who has sold his heart and soul to lobbyists for the health care industry?

[DocN]

Yes, all my democrat friends hate the fact that I watch fox news. What is so wrong with getting news from the other side? Is that not part of a democracy. One of the things I hate about Obama, is how much he demonized contrasting views. If you do not agree with him, you are evil. Is that democracy, or the makings of fascism? Why can't my friends, and for that matter most democrats even debate the issues, without resorting to Fox News slurs? I consider fox news to be a hilarious bit of extremism. But, like Russia Today, and Al Jazeera, they cover a different point of view. Watching CNN is like watching the White House News.

First of all: Fox News is NOT news!

It is a propaganda network of the worst kind!

[spidermike007]

Yes, all my democrat friends hate the fact that I watch fox news. What is so wrong with getting news from the other side? Is that not part of a democracy. One of the things I hate about Obama, is how much he demonized contrasting views. If you do not agree with him, you are evil. Is that democracy, or the makings of fascism? Why can't my friends, and for that matter most democrats even debate the issues, without resorting to Fox News slurs? I consider fox news to be a hilarious bit of extremism. But, like Russia Today, and Al Jazeera, they cover a different point of view. Watching CNN is like watching the White House News.

First of all: Fox News is NOT news!

It is a propaganda network of the worst kind!

And CNN is not? Do you consider them objective? How much investigative journalism do they do, on the administration, the president, or the white house? If you think CNN is objective, I am not sure what to say. All I am saying is get your news from multiple sources. Fox is simply one source for me. They are comical, and I do not watch any of the nonsense shows, but their news is worthy of my time, once in a while.

[3SoiDogNight]

No one in this day & age relies on one single source of news. So when Obama supporters think they're saying something big with their Fox news 'accusations' really just means they have no counter-argument. That's their way of admitting that they know less than you on a given topic. Of course they'll never admit that.

Honestly my favorite news source is NPR (National Public Radio). They lean left but they will at least bring on a guest with an opposing view and spend an hour or 2 on the discussion. It's very in-depth coverage of a topic. Most people don't like NPR because of their boring, monotone presentation but I like my news to be boring.

I dislike Glen Beck for the same reasons I dislike Chris Matthews. I absolutely hate seeing grown men throw temper-tantrums. I can't deal with all that screaming & shouting and talking over other people. It's so childish.

[DocN]

Yes, all my democrat friends hate the fact that I watch fox news. What is so wrong with getting news from the other side? Is that not part of a democracy. One of the things I hate about Obama, is how much he demonized contrasting views. If you do not agree with him, you are evil. Is that democracy, or the makings of fascism? Why can't my friends, and for that matter most democrats even debate the issues, without resorting to Fox News slurs? I consider fox news to be a hilarious bit of extremism. But, like Russia Today, and Al Jazeera, they cover a different point of view. Watching CNN is like watching the White House News.

First of all: Fox News is NOT news!

It is a propaganda network of the worst kind!

And CNN is not? Do you consider them objective? How much investigative journalism do they do, on the administration, the president, or the white house? If you think CNN is objective, I am not sure what to say. All I am saying is get your news from multiple sources. Fox is simply one source for me. They are comical, and I do not watch any of the nonsense shows, but their news is worthy of my time, once in a while.

I do believe that CNN is a little more reliable, yes!

Even the viewers of The Daily Show are better informed about things going on in the world, than the viewers of Fox News. There is a survey about that, but I really can not be arsed to search for it.

The Daily Show is a comedy program and a fictional news show (in that way, much like Fox News) and the viewers are better informed than the Fox- crowd.

That tells me a lot about Fox.

I agree, you should get your information from a lot of sources, but for German foreign policies, I will not recommend "Mein Kampf"!

[rubl]

Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S ?

"A Texas school district has come under legal fire after a student was expelled for failure to comply with the "School Locator Project," an RFID chip tracking program currently being piloted in a San Antonio middle and high school."

http://www.infowars....ing-badge-case/

[ttelise]

Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S ?

"A Texas school district has come under legal fire after a student was expelled for failure to comply with the "School Locator Project," an RFID chip tracking program currently being piloted in a San Antonio middle and high school."

http://www.infowars....ing-badge-case/

dam_n Republicans. Messed up state with a bunch of gun toting red neck God fearing Evangalist with views that have resulted in erosion of Fourth Amendment and privacy rights all in the name of fear and for national security.

[Sing_Sling]

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much.

Actually it IS a majority in 'real world' numbers - did you not do too well at maths? And as for errors in voting (I presume you meant margins of error, not errors in voting per se) . . . well, you did say 'near that much' so he would have won anyway even if the complete set of errors went against him . . . but then he could also have won by close to six percent according to your logic.

Obama won by six percent of the vote. Excellent.

No, Thailand has very little to learn from the US system - it would do better to look at Germany, which is also a federal system

Edited November 23, 2012 by Sing_Sling

[ttelise]

DocN:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion? I sighted examples of flaws in our democracy in the US and backed it up with facts. All you've done is come in here and throw insults at those you don't agree with.

If there is something I stated that you don't agree with, then let's have a discussion about it.

Actually, you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from either the very wealthy that are noid about paying more in taxes or religious nutbaggers that need structure in their life in the form of government telling them how to live and instilling those values upon others.

I pay enough in taxes every single year to pay cash for a house and it pisses me off, but not enough to risk further devastation to our financial stability.

I read your post and no where do you actually discuss the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000. Obahma and Fed has actually done a remarkeablr job keeping the largest banks, AIG, Fannie, Freddie, and Ginnie afloat which, as an insider in the industry, thought was an absolute impossible task. As late as October of last year, BofA alone was in the process of reserving $ 100 billion just to deal with CMO issues much if which was inherited through acquisition of Country Wide. The other big 5 were reserving similar but smaller amounts for same issue.

What did you really think the QEs were for. Bernacke and Obhama have just about accomplished the impossible and stabilized our banking industry and allowed them to maintain reserve requirements. This alone us pretty remarkable when back in 2008 no one could even begin to calculate the number relating to US losses on the horizon due to CMO, REMIC, MERS Corp, Credit Swaps, CDOs and those crazy CMO guarantees issued by Freddie, Faanie, and Ginnie.

Those issues alone could gave taken the entire US, China (who held most of the CMOs) and then the World banking system completely down. We were months away from this in 2008.

Even though it sucks that American tax payers are now footing the bill for the defaulted CMO bonds to China through FM, FM and GM guarantees, letting our banking system fail was even worse.

So we all actually owe the Fed and Barry as you guys call him a lot more gratitude than you guys realize.

[Sing_Sling]

Yes, all my democrat friends hate the fact that I watch fox news. What is so wrong with getting news from the other side? Is that not part of a democracy. One of the things I hate about Obama, is how much he demonized contrasting views. If you do not agree with him, you are evil. Is that democracy, or the makings of fascism? Why can't my friends, and for that matter most democrats even debate the issues, without resorting to Fox News slurs? I consider fox news to be a hilarious bit of extremism. But, like Russia Today, and Al Jazeera, they cover a different point of view. Watching CNN is like watching the White House News.

One would think that even non-Democrat friends would hate the fact that you watch FauxNews . . . you know, the people that aren't American

[Pimay1]

Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S ?

"A Texas school district has come under legal fire after a student was expelled for failure to comply with the "School Locator Project," an RFID chip tracking program currently being piloted in a San Antonio middle and high school."

http://www.infowars....ing-badge-case/

dam_n Republicans. Messed up state with a bunch of gun toting red neck God fearing Evangalist with views that have resulted in erosion of Fourth Amendment and privacy rights all in the name of fear and for national security.

It appears you have an aversion to the US Bill of Rights and the Second Ammendment to the constitution. My advice is get over it.

[ttelise]

Lessons In Democracy That Thailand Can Learn From The U S ?

"A Texas school district has come under legal fire after a student was expelled for failure to comply with the "School Locator Project," an RFID chip tracking program currently being piloted in a San Antonio middle and high school."

http://www.infowars....ing-badge-case/

dam_n Republicans. Messed up state with a bunch of gun toting red neck God fearing Evangalist with views that have resulted in erosion of Fourth Amendment and privacy rights all in the name of fear and for national security.

It appears you have an aversion to the US Bill of Rights and the Second Ammendment to the constitution. My advice is get over it.

No, I have a gun. Just an aversion to gun toting redneck religious nutbagger Evangelist from Texas.

[soomak]

What a nonsense article.

George Bush one an election on a minority vote before the 9/11 It was only the second election he won on fear mongering..The reason he won an election with a minority of votes is because the United States is not a democracy any more than Thailand is. It is a Rebublic in a democracy Al Gore would have been the president and the U. S. would have been more concerned with enviormental needs that can have a much farther reaching effect on all of humanity.

Here in Thailand we use the Parlamentary system which does not need a majority of the voters to rule. It so happens that the present government does have a majority of the votes. But their number of seats is way out of proportion o the votes they got.

The article stated

"It is only in "Amazing Thailand" that factions such as yellow shirts and now Pitak Siam continue to believe that the current Pheu Thai-led government is not a legitimately elected governmen"

That is not at all what they are saying they are saying that it is a no good government. The author knows that to be true but being a PT Red Shirt sympathizer it was the only way he could think of to defend his interests.

I like the list of credits for the author.

"Dr Kuldep Nagi is a Fulbright Fellow working at the Graduate School of eLearning (GSeL), Assumption University, Bangkok. He can be contacted at: DrKuldeep [at] Live.com."

Just more proof that academics should stay out of politics they know nothing about it.

Obama won by less than 3% of the popular vote, that's hardly a majority in real world numbers. Errors in voting can be near that much. The Electoral College is an outdated thing that should be done away with if for no other reason than most people whether American or other do not understand. In this case it would have made no difference but it still needs to be stopped as it skews the figures and gives the wrong impression on how voting really was. When you look at the popular vote in the USA there is some serious facts, many states were well over 60% against Obama(I hesitate to say for Romney) and some well over 70%. In many counties in certain states over 80% against Obama and I believe some counties were right at 90% against Obama. The states that did go for Obama the % was closer than states that voted against Obama. If you look at the red vs blue map state wise or county wise for many states I believe it shows a disturbing trend of turmoil in the US elections in basic values. Also look at the Republican states to see what is produced in these states and look at the Democratic states to see the same. I make no judgement either way but looking at real % and facts it puts lots of questions in my mind and shows the internal problems in the USA that seem to linger on and appear to have a good chance to increase.

Obama did win the popular vote as well: 51% - 48% or something of this sort.

Edited November 23, 2012 by soomak

[soomak]

The problem of Thailand is that all the countries who have low level of corruption and effective democratic systems have culture and traditions that supports these values.

If people don't believe in integrity, equality and the rule of law, it's hard to change all the systems that are based on these ideas.

I really don't think there is anyway to change that without changing the cultural values of the Thais, and that's only possible by education from a young age - so that would take 30 years or more.

[3SoiDogNight]

DocN:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion? I sighted examples of flaws in our democracy in the US and backed it up with facts. All you've done is come in here and throw insults at those you don't agree with.

If there is something I stated that you don't agree with, then let's have a discussion about it.

Actually, you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from either the very wealthy that are noid about paying more in taxes or religious nutbaggers that need structure in their life in the form of government telling them how to live and instilling those values upon others.

I pay enough in taxes every single year to pay cash for a house and it pisses me off, but not enough to risk further devastation to our financial stability.

I read your post and no where do you actually discuss the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000.

So we all actually owe the Fed and Barry as you guys call him a lot more gratitude than you guys realize.

...and you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from left-wing Obama apologist and Occupy Wall Street brats, Hollywood celebs and treehuggers. You have unsavory extremist on your side too pal. That is great that you're delighted to pay a lot in taxes. That's fine and I don't either if the President was sincerely making efforts to make cuts in wasteful spending. According to the CBO, if Obama has his wishes and make the rich pay their "fair-share" it would only be enough to keep the government running for 8 day & 5 hours. So how about the remaining 356 & a half days? Blame Bush?

Everyone knows of the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000 and BOTH parties are to blame for the economic downturn. We're reminded everyday by the President about the mess he inherited from Bush. It should be interesting to see how he deals with the upcoming financial cliff and the spin the media will put on it.

Also, what's with this "as you guys call him" comment? That was uncalled for and nowhere in this thread have I called him "Barry". At least I can spell his name correctly. You called him "Obahma".

As far as your "Barry" comment goes, I'm sure his parents and teachers called him that for a period of time....

[SeaVisionBurma]

Sensible debate - fine

Can we refrain from the juvenile name calling slurs please?

Lets continue with a mature discussion, thanks.

[LarryBird]

The problem of Thailand is that all the countries who have low level of corruption and effective democratic systems have culture and traditions that supports these values.

If people don't believe in integrity, equality and the rule of law, it's hard to change all the systems that are based on these ideas.

I really don't think there is anyway to change that without changing the cultural values of the Thais, and that's only possible by education from a young age - so that would take 30 years or more.

And they'll never understand that. It's too easy to blame others.

[chiangmaikelly]

The problem of Thailand is that all the countries who have low level of corruption and effective democratic systems have culture and traditions that supports these values.

If people don't believe in integrity, equality and the rule of law, it's hard to change all the systems that are based on these ideas.

I really don't think there is anyway to change that without changing the cultural values of the Thais, and that's only possible by education from a young age - so that would take 30 years or more.

It took Phibun a couple of weeks.

Edited November 24, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[ttelise]

DocN:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion? I sighted examples of flaws in our democracy in the US and backed it up with facts. All you've done is come in here and throw insults at those you don't agree with.

If there is something I stated that you don't agree with, then let's have a discussion about it.

Actually, you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from either the very wealthy that are noid about paying more in taxes or religious nutbaggers that need structure in their life in the form of government telling them how to live and instilling those values upon others.

I pay enough in taxes every single year to pay cash for a house and it pisses me off, but not enough to risk further devastation to our financial stability.

I read your post and no where do you actually discuss the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000.

So we all actually owe the Fed and Barry as you guys call him a lot more gratitude than you guys realize.

...and you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from left-wing Obama apologist and Occupy Wall Street brats, Hollywood celebs and treehuggers. You have unsavory extremist on your side too pal. That is great that you're delighted to pay a lot in taxes. That's fine and I don't either if the President was sincerely making efforts to make cuts in wasteful spending. According to the CBO, if Obama has his wishes and make the rich pay their "fair-share" it would only be enough to keep the government running for 8 day & 5 hours. So how about the remaining 356 & a half days? Blame Bush?

Everyone knows of the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000 and BOTH parties are to blame for the economic downturn. We're reminded everyday by the President about the mess he inherited from Bush. It should be interesting to see how he deals with the upcoming financial cliff and the spin the media will put on it.

Also, what's with this "as you guys call him" comment? That was uncalled for and nowhere in this thread have I called him "Barry". At least I can spell his name correctly. You called him "Obahma".

As far as your "Barry" comment goes, I'm sure his parents and teachers called him that for a period of time....

Subprime, Freddie, Fannie and Ginnie has cost us in realm of 3.5 to 4.0 trillion between 2008 and 2011. Then we have FHA bailout costs to be announced. AIG cost about 90 billion. Student loan defaults are $ 120 billion and rising. Auto bailouts losses about 25 billion.

War costs 4.4 trillion. $ 900 billion to care for wounded and disabled veterans.

Add another 1 + trillion in losses for Bush tax cuts.

Any wonder why we are in deficit with these huge losses on top of normal losses and some pretty hefty FEMA natural disaster losses.

Tax cuts are but a piece of the puzzle. Getting military costs reigned in and getting troops out of middle East will also help.

The jury is still out on Obama care in my opinion. Right now, those of us that pay or gave insurance already subsidize for those that cannot pay for health care and lack of insurance usually results in hue bills for very minor problems as uninsured or those on some kind of state xxxCare are forced to go to emergency rooms to get seen or treated as hospitals cannot turn them away. I can see both sides of this, but I have not really heard if a realistic better plan.

Health care is whack. Costs about $ 1,000 a month for decent family coverage through a group health plan. I have seen group plans right now costing $700 a month for a family with $ 6,000 deductible or out of pocket before any coverage and then 80/20 after that up to max of $ 10,000 out of pocket. Better off self insuring or paying cash if reasonably healthy.

Obama care cannot be any worse than that . . .

Edited November 24, 2012 by ttelise

[Sing_Sling]

That is great that you're delighted to pay a lot in taxes.

You do realise that it really isn't that much, don't you. Be honest, what is your percentage and overall? (Of course I am not asking you, it is a rhetorical question).

The problem is that Americans as a whole expect sooooo much from their Federal government in particular yet loathe paying for it. War? Sooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeee, let's git them Eyeranians or Eyerakis or whatever they are! Sibsidise oil companies? Soooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

As for your comment re 'Occupy Wall Street brats, Hollywood celebs and treehuggers' . . . that's painting with a very, very broad brush and over-simplifying the situation.

I'm Grosse Pointe, Mich, raised and no-one I know is anyone of the above yet all voted Democrat. You don't know Grosse Pointe? Look it up.

Fact is that if Obama entered with a +/- balance sheet we could rip him to shreds quite convincingly for the state of the economy. He didn't. We can't. Anyone who does is a simpleton

[3SoiDogNight]

ttelise:

As I said, BOTH parties are to blame. I'm not saying either side is any better.

That is great that you're delighted to pay a lot in taxes.

You do realise that it really isn't that much, don't you. Be honest, what is your percentage and overall? (Of course I am not asking you, it is a rhetorical question).

The problem is that Americans as a whole expect sooooo much from their Federal government in particular yet loathe paying for it. War? Sooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeee, let's git them Eyeranians or Eyerakis or whatever they are! Sibsidise oil companies? Soooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

As for your comment re 'Occupy Wall Street brats, Hollywood celebs and treehuggers' . . . that's painting with a very, very broad brush and over-simplifying the situation.

I'm Grosse Pointe, Mich, raised and no-one I know is anyone of the above yet all voted Democrat. You don't know Grosse Pointe? Look it up.

Fact is that if Obama entered with a +/- balance sheet we could rip him to shreds quite convincingly for the state of the economy. He didn't. We can't. Anyone who does is a simpleton

You do realize that you're also painting with a very, very broad brush and over-simplifying the situation. You're assuming everyone wanted to go to war. That was Bush's dumb idea which I opposed. Also most Americans don't pronounce Iranians and Iraqis in the ignorant dialect that you chose to use. Obviously you have a very low opinion of your fellow American. I am well aware of Grosse Pointe, Michigan and was there in 2009. Nice area. I stayed with a friend in Bloomfield Hills. I had to laugh when you said you pay out enough in taxes to by a house.

Well there are plenty of homes in Detroit metro that are ready to move in for as low as $3000. Heck, my friend in Taylor, MI. bought the empty house next to him for $900 cash, doubled the size of his lot and expanded the size of his own house and garage.

Gripe about the oil subsidies all you want but the government earns 48 cents for every 2 cents the 'evil' oil companies earn in profits. Also, the oil companies provide millions of good paying jobs and have lifted millions of families in to the middle-class and even upper class. Can't say the same about Obama's flirtation will venture capital and propping companies like Solyndra. Speaking of subsidies, we the taxpayer is supporting production of the Chevrolet Volt and the average income of the Volt buyer is $175,000 and none of them use it as their primary source of transportation. We're subsidizing a 'feel good' toy for the rich. Should be interesting how much longer that Volt stays in production.

Oil is used for many things besides our cars. I am 100% sure that the computer you're typing on is made of an oil-based material.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Title of this thread is

Lessons in Democracy that Thailand can learn from the US

Traveling well off topic at the moment - haven't seen anyone post about democracy lessons that can be learnt here in a while.

Either get back on topic, or the thread gets closed.

Have a nice day.

[3SoiDogNight]

Title of this thread is

Lessons in Democracy that Thailand can learn from the US

Traveling well off topic at the moment - haven't seen anyone post about democracy lessons that can be learnt here in a while.

Either get back on topic, or the thread gets closed.

Have a nice day.

Actually this thread is a perfect example as to why Thailand shouldn't look to the US as an example of democracy. I hope Dr Kuldep Nagi is reading this thread closely. Perhaps keeping the current system maybe better after-all.

[chiangmaikelly]

Title of this thread is

Lessons in Democracy that Thailand can learn from the US

Traveling well off topic at the moment - haven't seen anyone post about democracy lessons that can be learnt here in a while.

Either get back on topic, or the thread gets closed.

Have a nice day.

Actually this thread is a perfect example as to why Thailand shouldn't look to the US as an example of democracy. I hope Dr Kuldep Nagi is reading this thread closely. Perhaps keeping the current system maybe better after-all.

I thought the mod said learned from the US. And you say nothing can be learned from the US. So I take it you want the thread closed?

[hellodolly]

The problem of Thailand is that all the countries who have low level of corruption and effective democratic systems have culture and traditions that supports these values.

If people don't believe in integrity, equality and the rule of law, it's hard to change all the systems that are based on these ideas.

I really don't think there is anyway to change that without changing the cultural values of the Thais, and that's only possible by education from a young age - so that would take 30 years or more.

My only question is that thirty years to accomplish it or thirty years to get a government to start up a decent education system.

[hellodolly]

DocN:

Do you have anything to add to the discussion? I sighted examples of flaws in our democracy in the US and backed it up with facts. All you've done is come in here and throw insults at those you don't agree with.

If there is something I stated that you don't agree with, then let's have a discussion about it.

Actually, you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from either the very wealthy that are noid about paying more in taxes or religious nutbaggers that need structure in their life in the form of government telling them how to live and instilling those values upon others.

I pay enough in taxes every single year to pay cash for a house and it pisses me off, but not enough to risk further devastation to our financial stability.

I read your post and no where do you actually discuss the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000.

So we all actually owe the Fed and Barry as you guys call him a lot more gratitude than you guys realize.

...and you have only regurgitated the same rhetoric we hear over and over from left-wing Obama apologist and Occupy Wall Street brats, Hollywood celebs and treehuggers. You have unsavory extremist on your side too pal. That is great that you're delighted to pay a lot in taxes. That's fine and I don't either if the President was sincerely making efforts to make cuts in wasteful spending. According to the CBO, if Obama has his wishes and make the rich pay their "fair-share" it would only be enough to keep the government running for 8 day & 5 hours. So how about the remaining 356 & a half days? Blame Bush?

Everyone knows of the primary issues effecting US economy since 2000 and BOTH parties are to blame for the economic downturn. We're reminded everyday by the President about the mess he inherited from Bush. It should be interesting to see how he deals with the upcoming financial cliff and the spin the media will put on it.

Also, what's with this "as you guys call him" comment? That was uncalled for and nowhere in this thread have I called him "Barry". At least I can spell his name correctly. You called him "Obahma".

As far as your "Barry" comment goes, I'm sure his parents and teachers called him that for a period of time....

Sorry to interrupt here but I would like to point out that maybe you should be more concerned with getting out of the problem.

We now know the will of the majority of the people. A good choice as the states has turned the corner. To change policy when you have a working plan would be crazy. Maybe in four years when things are more settled.

At any rate did it ever occur to you two that it is a global problem and if Bush had not let his war hawks trick (actually lied to him) him into a huge waste of taxpayers money the states would have still had a down turn.

We know the problem we have a basic plan that will require partisan cooperation Send a message to each rep. and Senator that you want the problem fixed not a fight for control when the whole country looses.

As in all market down turns they must reach their bottom before they can go up. The states has done that.

Thailand already knows how to ignore the people in a quest for power. They don't need any lessons from the States.

Taking lessons from them we might find are selves at war.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think it is possible for Thailand to learn something from the US about democracy. Don't have a coup. Even if the party who wins is not the party you want to win. Even if the voters are not as smart as you would like them to be; don't have a coup. Even if the voters wear a different color shirt than you do; don't have a coup. Calling for the violent overthrow of the government because you do not agree with the government is not a good idea.