W.a.s.p

[bachismo]

Just an asside, but from my 19 years of living in LOS, I have never come across a non-WASP married to a Thai. For the uninitiated, a WASP is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

Are there ANY non-WASP married to Thai living happily in LOS?

Just a thought...

I don't know thought you are trying to have, but it doesn't sound good. There are many people who would and do take offense to being called a WASP. The fact you ask this question using a term like WASP and then admit that your person does not if this term leads me to believe that your thoughts aren't very nice. Or you have difficulty expressing yourself and therefore your true intentions are unknown to others. So, which is it?

Never thought WASP was derogatory. Simply an acronym to describe a plurality of the people in the US. Do white protestants take offense to this term?

By the way whether or not someone believes in God does not necessarily make them any more or less likely to take on the culture of that religion. Believing in God is an intellectual decision that adults make. We get our culture cues from those around us during childhood. In New York. for example, white Protestants have a culture that usually differntiates themselves from Catholics and Jews.

Where have you been?

Because if you have been in America you havn't been paying attention.

Just got back to NY after 3 years in Bangkok. Haven't gotten the PC update.

Out of curiosity what's derogatory about the word?

Is it the definition of the acronym?

[wilko]

What about the Welsh and the Scots...they're not Anglo-Saxon?

Edited February 12, 2006 by wilko

[autonomous_unit]

I'll echo tuky's sentiment... as a "young generation X" kid from California, my environment was sufficiently areligious that "protestant" had about as much relevance as "pilgrim" or "quaker" in my life. Just another term I heard in history class that does not have a very distinct meaning to me. WASP was a mildly derogatory term we used to refer to haughty New Englanders without really caring what it meant.

I doubt there is some specific "WASP cultural trait" which makes people much more likely to marry Thais. As someone said above, I think it has more to do with accidents of history which cause people to be in contact long enough for nature to take its course. This history seems to be more defined by national borders than religiously-influenced culture. Isn't there a reinforcing effect too, in that the early cases set a precedent where other fence-sitters feel more comfortable? (The later pairings are not stepping as far from the norm as their earlier counterparts.)

Does the miltary history and this reinforcement effect explain the apparent sex bias where white men are seen more often with eastern women than the reverse?

[TRIPxCORE]

I was born in America and I am an American but by race I am a full-blooded Italian. Of course I was born and raised a Catholic but I married a Thai woman, much to my mothers dismay. Certainly she also wanted me to marry a nice Italian girl because staying within your own race is quite important to Italians. Nevertheless I was the heathen of my family and went outside of my race but as soon as my mother met my wife she loved her so no problems there.

I also know quite a few Italians married to Thais as well.

Edited February 12, 2006 by TRIPxCORE

[phibunmike]

Believing in God is an intellectual decision that adults make.

I disagree - I have no statistics to back me up, but my impression is that while a tiny minority fit your description, the vast majority brought up within a Catholic / Jewish / Muslim / Protestant background seldom question it, assume it is the best, and think that all the others somehow got it wrong. This does not come during adulthood, but is ingrained during childhood. Had the Pope been born in India, he would probably be Hindu, but the with the same brain and with the same intellect.

It's like me thinking that eating ice-cream in a bread roll is "funny" (when actually it is quite tasty) simply because it wasn't the culture I was brought up with.

[meadish_sweetball]

I'm definitely not an Anglo-Saxon. I farte in youre generale direction. Your father was a hamster, and your mother smelled of elderberry.

My ancestors raped Anglo-Saxon women and ruled their country for a while, when the local Anglos were all busy running around in convents writing scriptures and growing medicinal herbs. Then Willhelm/William/Guillaume the Conqueror, another viking who'd gone slightly sissy down in Normandie, ousted Knut (whom you may know by the name of Kanude because of Willhelm and his silly French airs)) from the throne (1066 and all that), ruled for a while, and brought in exceptionally involved and illogical spelling as well as slightly more sophisticated cuisine to the Anglos (well, he tried anyway, his greatest success probably being that they started to say pork instead of pig, when they were eating pig.).

So, if anything, the Anglo-Saxons are a bit Scando (association by rape).

Neither am I a protestant, although the Swedish State Church is, and I guess they did try to teach us a few things out of the bible in school because it was required. Most of our teachers were more communists than anything anyway, so I guess if anything, I am a PSC. Or possibly a PSA or PSB. Pink Swedish Communist, Agnostic, or Buddhist.

[Erwin1011]

I'm the result of a religiously mixed marriage. Father a Flemish Catholic, mother a Dutch protestant.

Me an atheist. Renounced cathilicism at my 16th birthday and went to the trouble of having my name removed from the baptism records. I'm married to a Thai lady.

In what category does that put me?

[robitusson]

Once a Catholic.....

[suegha]

What about the Welsh and the Scots...they're not Anglo-Saxon?

Neither are the Irish...

[HarryHerb]

No-one's addressing the original point here. Maybe the term w.a.s.p. is offputting but why is it people from a certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to marry Thai ladies than people from other cultural backgrounds? Obviously there are plenty of examples from all over the world but the majority are from countries with a particular race and religious tradition. So why?

The original point, as far as I understand it, is whether there are any non-Caucasians happily married to Thai people. Well, of course there are.

The fact that you personally don't know know any is probably a reflection on your (and baan_yangyai's) social circle. "People from a certain cultural background" aren't more or less likely to marry a Thai - but you are perhaps more likely to know people only from a certain cultural background. I take it you don't hang around tailor shops or gold shops very much (not that you'd probably want to ).

But I'd guess that the majority - or at least a very large minority, more than you give credit to - of foreign spouses are not Caucasians, but non-Thai Asians (Singaporean, Chinese, Indian, Bangladeshi, Malaysian, etc.)

And, from the vociferous protests thus far, I'd also be pretty sure the white people who are married to Thais would not like to be lumped together as being from "a certain cultural background" either.

[robitusson]

No-one's addressing the original point here. Maybe the term w.a.s.p. is offputting but why is it people from a certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to marry Thai ladies than people from other cultural backgrounds? Obviously there are plenty of examples from all over the world but the majority are from countries with a particular race and religious tradition. So why?

The original point, as far as I understand it, is whether there are any non-Caucasians happily married to Thai people. Well, of course there are.

The fact that you personally don't know know any is probably a reflection on your (and baan_yangyai's) social circle. "People from a certain cultural background" aren't more or less likely to marry a Thai - but you are perhaps more likely to know people only from a certain cultural background. I take it you don't hang around tailor shops or gold shops very much (not that you'd probably want to ).

But I'd guess that the majority - or at least a very large minority, more than you give credit to - of foreign spouses are not Caucasians, but non-Thai Asians (Singaporean, Chinese, Indian, Bangladeshi, Malaysian, etc.)

And, from the vociferous protests thus far, I'd also be pretty sure the white people who are married to Thais would not like to be lumped together as being from "a certain cultural background" either.

Well, we can ignore it if we like but it's plainly obvious that, out of Caucasians married to Thais, the majority of them come from northern Europe and the US. Nothing to do with who is my social circle or not. It has been documented on television, in books, on the internet, huge numbers of Thai women marry Germans, Dutch, British, Northern Europeans and Americans every year. Go to the German embassy any day of the week and check out how many Thai ladies are there applying for holiday visas, marriage papers, etc. There's thousands of Israelis visiting Thailand every year but you rarely hear of them marrying Thais or rarely meet any who have done. Of course there's some who do but overall not as many as these other nationalities. Obviously Caucasians are going to be in the minority of foreigners who do marry Thais but out of the Caucasians who it's plain to see the overall trend. There's no "lumping" of people going on, it's just an observation.

Edited February 12, 2006 by robitusson

[HarryHerb]

Well, we can ignore it if we like but it's plainly obvious that, out of Caucasians married to Thais, the majority of them come from northern Europe and the US. [...] Obviously Caucasians are going to be in the minority of foreigners who do marry Thais but out of the Caucasians who it's plain to see the overall trend. There's no "lumping" of people going on, it's just an observation.

The OP didn't seem to find that obvious, which was my point.

Otherwise, yes, I agree that most Causcasians (regardless of class, religious persuasion or sexual preferences) who settle here are from northern Europe and America - just like the vast majority of the tourists: a fairly staightforward correlation, I'd have thought.

As to why Thailand attracts more people from colder climes than the Mediterranean I have no clue. Can't simply be the weather, can it? How mundane.

[crocodilexp]

While everybody seems to discuss the meaning of WASP to infinity, people seem to be missing an interesting point here.

Presumably, the point is that people marrying Thais are largely from protestant cultures (i.e. USA, Scandinavia, Germany...). The culture someone is brought up in matters more than the official religion they declare themselves in, and even race.

I presume the Protestant work ethic and less relaxed attitudes (leading to a crappier social life) in protestant countries, have something to do with it -- people just get burned out from work and desperate at some point, so Thailand seems so overwhelmingly appealing.

It's not terribly surprising that, say, a lonely guy from Omaha, Nebraska or Trondheim, Norway is more likely to get married in LOS, than a smoot operator (due to practice) from Ibiza or Napoli. Attitudes of women (men too) in the former 2 countries are about as warm as the weather...

[thaibebop]

No-one's addressing the original point here. Maybe the term w.a.s.p. is offputting but why is it people from a certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to marry Thai ladies than people from other cultural backgrounds? Obviously there are plenty of examples from all over the world but the majority are from countries with a particular race and religious tradition. So why?

I don't think that is something we can answer here. I think this is a topic for a sociological study funded by a college. It's a very large question.

Just an asside, but from my 19 years of living in LOS, I have never come across a non-WASP married to a Thai. For the uninitiated, a WASP is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

Are there ANY non-WASP married to Thai living happily in LOS?

Just a thought...

I don't know thought you are trying to have, but it doesn't sound good. There are many people who would and do take offense to being called a WASP. The fact you ask this question using a term like WASP and then admit that your person does not if this term leads me to believe that your thoughts aren't very nice. Or you have difficulty expressing yourself and therefore your true intentions are unknown to others. So, which is it?

Never thought WASP was derogatory. Simply an acronym to describe a plurality of the people in the US. Do white protestants take offense to this term?

By the way whether or not someone believes in God does not necessarily make them any more or less likely to take on the culture of that religion. Believing in God is an intellectual decision that adults make. We get our culture cues from those around us during childhood. In New York. for example, white Protestants have a culture that usually differntiates themselves from Catholics and Jews.

Where have you been?

Because if you have been in America you havn't been paying attention.

Just got back to NY after 3 years in Bangkok. Haven't gotten the PC update.

Out of curiosity what's derogatory about the word?

Is it the definition of the acronym?

If someone calls you a WASP they are saying that you are a bigot. They are saying that you are out of touch with the rest of America and feel that you are above the rest of America.

[IMA_FARANG]

Just an asside, but from my 19 years of living in LOS, I have never come across a non-WASP married to a Thai. For the uninitiated, a WASP is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

Are there ANY non-WASP married to Thai living happily in LOS?

Just a thought...

Yes, I knew one African-American man and two Japanese Americans who were married to Thai women. I agree that the majority of people I knew married or living with Thai women were whites. Not sure about anyones' religion.

As far as I knew they we just human beings.

My Thai girlfriend was previously married to a mixed Aussie-Indian man, whatever that has to do with anything.

[Boon Mee]

Being a WASP these days is sorta like being Jim Crow in the states back around the turn of the century...

[suegha]

I think there's been too much time spent on the term WASP! It's not meant to be derogatory or favourable, it’s a bit like YUPPIES, WOOPIES, NIMBYs or DINKYs. They are just aconyms not to be taken too seriously.

[Tippaporn]

My wifey once mentioned to me that Thai women prefer caucasians due to their skin tone. She, herself, has no attraction towards darker skinned races. Do other, dark skinned races feel the same?

[Thaiboxer]

I'm a WASC (White Anglo-Saxon Catholic). I was baptized but I never received holy communion or confirmation. I'm not a church goer either.

With regards to skin tone, light skin is a big fashion trend these days. I see ladies trying to protect themselves from the sun on bright days.

[thaibebop]

I think there's been too much time spent on the term WASP! It's not meant to be derogatory or favourable, it’s a bit like YUPPIES, WOOPIES, NIMBYs or DINKYs. They are just aconyms not to be taken too seriously.

With all due respect Suegha, the term WASP, in America, if said by someone other than a white is as close as one can get to calling a white a nigger, well, that may be a bit extreme, but you get the idea. You would refer to someone as a WASP if you believed them to be a member of the KKK. This is not a nice term, like honky, cracker, whitey, etc; it's right along with these others. So, yes, it is a big deal because the OP used this term, and he admited to not being white. So, what is he trying to imply of whites who marry Thais? I will except that the OP used a term he didn't understand, but I hope you can understand why I ask these questions.

[autonomous_unit]

Just for fun, I asked my wife what she thought about this idea that mostly white foreigners marry Thais (I ignored the whole protestant part of the question). She thought that was a silly question, and that there are just as many pairings from other parts of the world. Her conjecture is that you'd get a pretty representative distribution based on how much different cultures have mixed historically, just as someone else posted early on this thread.

It is worth pointing out: you will not get a uniform sampling by only viewing pairs walking around in Thailand. Aside from the bias from only seeing people in your favorite haunts, you also ignore all the Thais who live overseas with their non-Thai spouses. Finally, isn't it likely you might assume "asian" couples are Thai, when one of them might actually be from any number of countries in the region?

Some of the people on this thread also seem to be mixing up two very different questions: Are certain cultures more likely to support foreign-Thai relationships (that the two people are somehow more compatible or mutually attractive)? Or, are certain cultures more likely to support travel to or interaction with Thais (so that foreigners and Thais can do what it is that humans do in close proximity)?

[richb2004]

Religion has shaped our values and the way we think for hundreds of years. Someone coming along and just saying "I'm athiest" overnight is still going to think in these terms unless they make an incredibly concerted effort to overcome it. If someone comes from one particular religious background then it will still be a fundamental part of that person even if they decide to change or become athiests.

In what way? Do you mean displaying simple common moral values and decency?

I am an Atheist and have no trace of religion about me, and am not influenced by any religion. Although there are some I dislike more than others.

[meadish_sweetball]

Coming back to the original topic, as has been said, there are plenty of other Asians married to Thais. It is not entirely uncommon with Israeli-Thai couples either - but in most cases they do not chose to live in Thailand.

Anyway, if we should try to find support for your thesis though, I think the following points do have some importance:

1. Status (Hollywood focusing on the Caucasian as the norm etc., the de facto power base of the world is still largely in Caucasian hands.)

2. Economy. Most of these countries have rather good standards of living and pretty good opportunities for raising children (especially in contrast to the opportunities for Thai women from poorer backgrounds).

3. Compatibility of religion. Since many people raised in protestant countries are more secularized, the compatibility in that respect may be easier. It is probably more unlikely that a person from this background will demand that the Thai renounces her Buddhist and animist ideas, than somebody with a strong religious conviction.

4. Desire on the part of the male to have a more 'traditional' wife (more stereotypical gender roles) and dislike of the feminist movement, which has perhaps been strongest in Western countries. Like it or not, many men claim this is a major reason for marrying a Thai.

5. The perception among Thai women that Western men are more faithful and less likely to cheat than Thais. Some also believe that they can have a more equal relationship with a Western man.

OFF TOPIC:

I'm a WASC (White Anglo-Saxon Catholic). I was baptized but I never received holy communion or confirmation. I'm not a church goer either.

With regards to skin tone, light skin is a big fashion trend these days. I see ladies trying to protect themselves from the sun on bright days.

It's not only a trend though - would be nice if it were.

White skin has been all the rage in this part of Asia for a long, long time, in fact it's Caucasians that have changed their views about what is beautiful in this respect. Go back a little over a 100 years in history and see what skin tone was most desirable in Europe and the US.

The newer focus on tan skin is partly related to the hailing of the outdoors, healthy lifestyle, partly related to a socialist worker's ideal, and lastly, and perhaps most importantly to status in the age of jet travel - being able to get a good tan shows that you have the cash to spend on a holiday in the sun.

Status is also the main reason for the desire to be white here in Thailand - the implication is that people who are white can choose to stay indoors and out of the sun, in other words they are from a higher social class that does not need to do manual labour.

Many people link the white skin ideal primarily with a desire to look like farang, but that is only part of the explanation. Chinese culture has praised fair and delicate skin since ages ago as well. /OFF TOPIC.

Religion has shaped our values and the way we think for hundreds of years. Someone coming along and just saying "I'm athiest" overnight is still going to think in these terms unless they make an incredibly concerted effort to overcome it. If someone comes from one particular religious background then it will still be a fundamental part of that person even if they decide to change or become athiests.

In what way? Do you mean displaying simple common moral values and decency?

I am an Atheist and have no trace of religion about me, and am not influenced by any religion. Although there are some I dislike more than others.

Being born in a Western country, part of your cultural heritage is Christianity - most likely you have a relation to it, you will know its basic rules, etc. Even if you hate it, it is part of what has shaped your character, for better and for worse.

Christian themes and symbols keep coming back in popular culture - when you start analyzing movies and books a bit more deeply, you will find themes based on the Bible everywhere.

Even if you had no direct Christian influence from your family, the number of indirect influences you will have experienced are myriad... and I am not only talking about Life of Brian.

The way we discuss things, and the moral yardstick we use in almost all cases has a clear relation to the ten commandments.

(I dont count myself as a Christian either by the way, I just acknowledge it has formed part of my character.)

[robitusson]

2. Economy. Most of these countries have rather good standards of living and pretty good opportunities for raising children (especially in contrast to the opportunities for Thai women from poorer backgrounds).

3. Compatibility of religion. Since many people raised in protestant countries are more secularized, the compatibility in that respect may be easier. It is probably more unlikely that a person from this background will demand that the Thai renounces her Buddhist and animist ideas, than somebody with a strong religious conviction.

4. Desire on the part of the male to have a more 'traditional' wife (more stereotypical gender roles) and dislike of the feminist movement, which has perhaps been strongest in Western countries. Like it or not, many men claim this is a major reason for marrying a Thai.

5. The perception among Thai women that Western men are more faithful and less likely to cheat than Thais. Some also believe that they can have a more equal relationship with a Western man.

Excellent post which answers the question and not just the silly "I know a Black Jewish Chinaman who's married to a Thai " responses. The secularisation of Protestant countries is a major factor, coupled with the desire for a traditionnal male/ female type marriage arrangement, instead of the partner 1/ partner 2 arrangement currently in vogue. This gets to the heart of the matter.

Being born in a Western country, part of your cultural heritage is Christianity - most likely you have a relation to it, you will know its basic rules, etc. Even if you hate it, it is part of what has shaped your character, for better and for worse.

Christian themes and symbols keep coming back in popular culture - when you start analyzing movies and books a bit more deeply, you will find themes based on the Bible everywhere.

Even if you had no direct Christian influence from your family, the number of indirect influences you will have experienced are myriad... and I am not only talking about Life of Brian.

The way we discuss things, and the moral yardstick we use in almost all cases has a clear relation to the ten commandments.

(I dont count myself as a Christian either by the way, I just acknowledge it has formed part of my character.)

This is also very true. Very few athiests I've ever met are true athiests, there are plenty of lapsed Christians in the sense that they no longer practise their religion but it's obvious these cultural and religious values shape us all, unless we make a very conscious effort to change which very few so-called athiests do.

[suegha]

I think there's been too much time spent on the term WASP! It's not meant to be derogatory or favourable, it’s a bit like YUPPIES, WOOPIES, NIMBYs or DINKYs. They are just aconyms not to be taken too seriously.

With all due respect Suegha, the term WASP, in America, if said by someone other than a white is as close as one can get to calling a white a nigger, well, that may be a bit extreme, but you get the idea. You would refer to someone as a WASP if you believed them to be a member of the KKK. This is not a nice term, like honky, cracker, whitey, etc; it's right along with these others. So, yes, it is a big deal because the OP used this term, and he admited to not being white. So, what is he trying to imply of whites who marry Thais? I will except that the OP used a term he didn't understand, but I hope you can understand why I ask these questions.

Wow!!! In the UK (and especially Ireland) WASP would be taken to be a 'grey suited' conservative with a small c), a bit dull, never do anything exciting, live in a 3 bed semi and work in a bank - that's the sort of stereotype the expression carries. Not that I ever use it, but you will hear it from time to time. I certainly WON'T use it on my travels if that's how it's perceived. Thanks for the tip!

[leftcross]

brilliant post meadish sweetball that seems to be right on the money.

as for all the apologists re WASP, what is there to be ashamed of??? i'm proud to be a white, anglo-saxon protestant.

[TAWP]

Just an asside, but from my 19 years of living in LOS, I have never come across a non-WASP married to a Thai. For the uninitiated, a WASP is a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant

Are there ANY non-WASP married to Thai living happily in LOS?

Just a thought...

I'm a WNA (White Norse Atheist)...so, not only WASPs are here.

(Or if one inherits religion from the parents, then I'm AA...mother is a Atheist and father is a A_sshole.)

Edited February 13, 2006 by TAWP

[thaibebop]

I think there's been too much time spent on the term WASP! It's not meant to be derogatory or favourable, it’s a bit like YUPPIES, WOOPIES, NIMBYs or DINKYs. They are just aconyms not to be taken too seriously.

With all due respect Suegha, the term WASP, in America, if said by someone other than a white is as close as one can get to calling a white a nigger, well, that may be a bit extreme, but you get the idea. You would refer to someone as a WASP if you believed them to be a member of the KKK. This is not a nice term, like honky, cracker, whitey, etc; it's right along with these others. So, yes, it is a big deal because the OP used this term, and he admited to not being white. So, what is he trying to imply of whites who marry Thais? I will except that the OP used a term he didn't understand, but I hope you can understand why I ask these questions.

Wow!!! In the UK (and especially Ireland) WASP would be taken to be a 'grey suited' conservative with a small c), a bit dull, never do anything exciting, live in a 3 bed semi and work in a bank - that's the sort of stereotype the expression carries. Not that I ever use it, but you will hear it from time to time. I certainly WON'T use it on my travels if that's how it's perceived. Thanks for the tip!

It's that way here in America, but than America has race problems out the a$$. Many terms have lost their power of the years because Amercian comdians have been bases jokes off of these terms in a way too difuse these charged words. Richard Pryor was one of the first to really address race relations. So, now many words can be said with a smile as a joke, if you know the person well enough, but all these words can easly be used harshly like they always have. It's one of the sad battles Americans fight with our langauge.

[suegha]

It's one of the battles American fight with OUR language!!!

Edited February 13, 2006 by suegha

[thaibebop]

It's one of the battles American fight with OUR language!!!

Am I wrong?