Thinking About Leaving? How About You....

[FIGJAM]

Are we trying to say that Thailand or any other Asian Country for that sake, is 'Good" or "Bad" based on the way they treat Western or Foreign people?

Oh no.. what we are trying to say, in that case, is just how "good" that country is TO US..

And that's part of how "good a country is" anyway. That and how it treats its own people.

Thailand doesn't seem to excel in any of those two fields.

They are very materialists like some Western Countries. This is like who is taking more Flesh out of each other type of a situation.

Well, it's more or less like that everywhere I think..

Also they are very opportunistic. I do not trust any Thai Guy but Thai Girls, I can trust.

Very funny as they are all Thai, come from the same country, the same culture, share the same beliefs, values and principles.......

Those girls you trust are the mothers, sisters, wifes, daughters of those guys you don't trust.

I have to paraphrase the Great Leader of Thailand here: "I don't trust brown skinned people".

(that was "white skinned people" in His words, of course.)

For example, If I go and live in an Western Country, I will get a relatively lower Salary coz I am Asian and I will understand it.

Anyway, in a western country, I will get more than what I can get compared to from where I am. But life is not that what I get and what I did not get in Material or Money terms.

On the other hand when a 'Native English' speaker comes to Thailand, they get Above Average Salaries and then they expect more.

If the things do not work, then Thailand is bad and if everything is ok then Thailand is the Heaven on Earth. 

No country like to invite foreigners to stay and then earn money out of it and take them back with them. So do not expect it and get disappointed. 

I have just gone back home, last Dec., after living 2.5+ years in Thailand. The main reason is I realized it's not possible to live a "normal" life in Thailand for a foreigner. We are and we will always be outsiders, no matter how hard we try.

If in Thailand I had half the rights any foreigner (Thais included) has in the West I would probably still be there.

In the West we have westerners fighting for the rights and well being of foreigners.

Where in Asia is there something similar?

Not in Thailand and not in any other Asian country I have visited so, where are you from in Asia my friend?

Let's cross check the situation for a foreigner wanting to live in my home country (Italy), yours and Thailand and let's see if we farangs, we westerners, have the right to "get disappointed" or not for the crap we have to put up with in the Land of (fake) Smiles.

BTW, I am not a "guest" in Thailand now, so for those who love to say "you are a guest here, this is their own country and they have the right to do as they please so shut up or ###### off home" well, I have the freedom of speech where I am now and the same (and this is the important part) have the Thais living in my country.

Ciao, FIGJAM.

[Dutchy]

Guess you haven't heard of the new little airport that is being built… called THE SUVANABHUMI AIRPORT that will be open 587 days… at an investment of 120 billion baht ($US 2.7 billion) It will be 500,000 sqm (world's largest for a single terminal complex - the roof trellis will also be the largest of its kind). By 2010 it will handle 112 flights per hour and accommodating 100 million passengers each year.

Amcham meeting the other night and everyone I spoke with spoke highly of the Thai economy. The key is "manufacturing and exports." The words I heard over and over again why it’s flat out trying to keep up with the demand that has been created in Thailand. These days indeed are exciting times.

Greg Lange

Managing Director

Sunbelt Asia

www.sunbeltasia.com

The key has always been manufacturing and export for Thailand, this plus tourism are the things that bring in the money. That's no news as it never has been really diferent. With regards to Bangkok's new Airport, the ministry of transport and communication described the infrastructure to Bangkok's center as 'adequate', that says it all.

I do not disagree with Greg's ideas in general, Thailand remains a good place to do business because of lack of legislation. It's just that when you value traits like "honesty, sincerity, quality' Thailand is not the place to be. Thailand will not change it's corrupt system, it's will never be like Japan, Korea, Taiwan or even China. It aims to continue underpaying Thai people as that's the basis for Thai exports, do not expect that Thai secondary school teachers can travel over the world for instance. Their collegues in Japan, Korea and Taiwan can do that, they've got sufficient income. It's sustainable development that counts, Thailand is only interested in making the rich richer and buying people's votes that keep the system intact. From the people I know that have children I've never heard anyone say that they decide to stay in Thailand because the children would have a better future here.

Amcham is by the way not always positive about developments in Thailand, mr Greg may have overlooked the following quote directly from Amcham

IMPROVING THAILAND'S COMPETITIVENESS

The American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand actively supports and encourages the development of competitive export industries in the Kingdom as a job creation engine and a key component of economic growth.

Increased competition, however, from other emerging economies in Asia and Latin America, possessing larger populations and lower wage rates, has eroded Thailand's comparative advantage in many labor intensive, low value-added industries as well as agriculture.

Accordingly, continued sustainable export growth is dependent upon all sectors being able to move up the value-added chain of production with efficient, price competitive capabilities.

The American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand, therefore, recommends an immediate and sustained focus on the following in order to lay a foundation for export growth and economic recovery. Improved educational standards at all levels, with a particular focus on the infrastructure that promotes Research and Development, measures that expand the Information technology skill base and programs that heighten the English language proficiency of students at all levels.

Rationale

Despite high rates of output and export growth through most of the 1980's and early 1990s, and more recently coming out the of the economic crisis of 1997, industry in Thailand has lagged behind that of other industrializing countries in improving competitiveness through various forms of technological development, adsorption and diffusion. Accordingly, Thailand continues to slide on world competitiveness scales such as those produced by organizations like IMD.

Several indicators point to the waning competitiveness:

A relatively slow rate of change in the structure of industrial production and exports (e.g. as between production that is resource-intensive, labor intensive, and that which is science-based, with a high level of skill or knowledge input required.);

Relatively slow rates of growth of higher value-added types of production within most manufacturing and services sectors; and

Relatively slow rates of overall productivity growth.

The need for improved competitiveness is widely recognized by a number of governmental Agencies and Departments. Unfortunately no single agency is focusing on it. NESDB has acted as the center (by calling attention to the problem) but individuals with very little private sector practical experience manage it, like many of the other agencies. The need to develop a more coherent and broader framework of industrial and technology policy than presently exists will undoubtedly receive more attention as the effects of the economic crisis linger. Recent economic events only served to highlight weakness in the growth of the international competitiveness of Thai industry. Formulating policies to address the technology-related issued underlying the weaknesses, which appear to be long-standing and deeply embedded in the process of industrialization in the country, will require tremendous political and administrative will and courage. Private sector involvement is fundamental to the adoption and implementation of appropriate policies. The American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand seeks to promote greater cooperation between the public and private sectors in addressing improved competitiveness, with a specific focus on the areas of education, telecommunications (e-commerce) and agriculture.

Another interesting quote.

Thai toy industry unwinds as China, Vietnam dominate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thai toy makers lose the plot.

Thailand's toy manufacturers are happy no more. Gone are the halcyon times during the late 1980s and early 1990s, when the export value of toys soared at annual growth rates of 30%.

http://www.tdctrade.com/mne/toy/toys023.htm

Cheers,

Dutchy

[mrvietnam2001]

....Mr Vietnam 

Do me a favour man, IT IS A SECRETE!

You can compare Thailand wih VietNam by many things, but my bet goes on VietNam. They still work and have sanook in the Cuchi tunnels after dark.

Ooops sorry Axel. Shhhhhhhh!

But you know, the guys who are in Thailand for off color reasons would get eaten alive in Vietnam anyway. So there's nothing to fear and only the ones with good intentions will be accepted.

I saw many guys get their brains beat in while living in Vnam real quick too. As you know it's a lot different than Thailand

Rgrds

Mr Vietnam

P.S. Yeh on the work ethic. Unreal.

[Boon Mee]

>>Thailand is only interested in making the rich richer and buying people's votes that keep the system intact.<<

>>It's just that when you value traits like "honesty, sincerity, quality' Thailand is not the place to be.<<

Sounds a lot like Brazil. There's an expression down there that goes: "Brazil is the country of the future and always will be"

Give me Thailand any day over Brazil even though THE most beautiful city anywhere is Rio.

Boon Mee

[simon43]

I'll add my 2 cents worth. I'm a Brit with a good internet business in Europe. I've been coming to Thailand for just over a year now, and happily living with a Thai girl. I love the weather, food, beaches etc etc etc. And I want to start some business over here. But underneath all these good things are the worrying points so often mentioned in this forum. The racism against farang here, the inability to own land, the growing number of restrictions (bars closing early etc), even the apparently small issue of double-pricing (small issue to Thais maybe but a HUGE insult to farang in the way it is practiced).

If I live here full-time I can never really own my business or my land (right now it is all in my girlfriend's name). Can anyone feel really comfortable in such a situation? (well my girlfriend can ). And yes, I am aware of the various 'tricks' that can be employed so I do have control of these assets.

But the most frustrating thing is that I have no alternative but to live here! When I read about the pros and cons of other Asian countries, I realise that there is no good alternative. Despite all the hassles of living in Thailand, living in another Asian country would be far worse!

Simon

[Sunbelt Asia]

Although Sunbelt often posts great information one should take some of their comments with a grain of salt. Their business depends on folks investing money in Thailand if its a business or house. Lets be fair, there are other countries with excellents future and although I love Thailand, I can immagine their being better places to invest your money

Do NOT invest in this country called Thailand. Don't even think of it. You have to be a loser.

I'm finished with this forum where I'm not allowed to state my mind. As I have the rights to all of SE Asia, What forum, should I sponsor next so when I speak my mind, I don't get accuse of better places to invest my money. I'm all ears?

By the way, not one client ever came from this forum so it doesn't matter what the heck I say. People have their own minds but simply tired of being accused I have other motives when I simply respond to my feelings..

My right and what I'm doing is investing here. You don't agree, fair enough. But I have a mouth and I can speak my mind what I believe in. Who knows if its right or wrong but what I do say, is my true feelings. Point out one thing that I have ever lied about... you won't be able to.

[Jimbo]

Thank you for calling me ######. Oops.

I am sure you provide a very good service and was actually planning to use your company to assist me with some business ventures as I liked many of your comments on this site and actually cfound yuor company through this website.

I am sorry if you feel insulted in any way. i was just trying to make a point that you often give valuable advise however as any other sales person, you will try to push your product which in your case is Thailand. I am sure that most of the people on this forum are in Thailand or want to go to Thailand. Most of us now the pro's and con's and though Thailand is a great place, we dont need to glorifiy it.

Let me buy you a couple of Chang's and just relax and have fun. Life is too short ofr us to risk a heart attack on this forum

[Sunbelt Asia]

Ok fair enough.

Come into our office, however you'll find if you want to classify me as a salesman. If your definition "is push my product." LOL lots because then I'm the worse salesman on this planet.

I do help people find people with solutions but NEVER NEVER Ever have I ever forced or pushed someone to buy. Our company does zero follow-up. If you like a business after you visited it by yourself... then you call us. You don't contact us, then you never hear from us again. The ball is always in your court. If your desire is not to go to the next step of due diligence, we don't call you. The whole process is with zero pressure from us. We do solve problems with landlords and getting the buyer and seller to a fair transfer so both sides win.

As for the economy, we'll do better when it crashes and burns. Not on my restaurants or real estate but in the business brokerage world. Buyers come out of the woodwork and are looking for the next up cycle.

Get to know me and you'll find my word is gold. Yes I do love Thailand with all my heart and excited about her future. If its taken a different way of glorifying, I'm sorry.

[kwiz117]

I read today the increased restrictions government is going to put on issuing Thai Nationality to foreigners. I understand even now, it is very difficult and you need some luck to get it. I really can not understand the reason for making these regulations more difficult by linking it to the Money a person earn each month.

Is Nationality is a Trading Business in Thailand?

If a Thai person or any Asian for that sake visit Australian, NZ, UK websites, you will see the different VISA categories a person can move and live in those countries. Money is a factor only from the view of Surviving without being a headache to those governments. And they do not consider it as a mean to earn money. All these countries have skilled Visa categories. I know many Thai?s also using that category to migrate to those countries. But in Thailand, qualifications, experience are all don't care factors and money has become the main factor to Buy a nationality.

Great..go on like this.. Now you put curfew for your own sons and daughters to protect them from having sex..very soon, you will have to ban them leaving from the door step. Your own stupidity is digging your own graves..

I am really upset after reading the new guidelines. I earn well over the amounts they have given. But indirectly it says, if by chance I have not earned that much, then I am not eligible. That is really stupid.

Also on the other hand, they put all restrictions on getting work permits and finding jobs in Thailand.

The way it's going very soon Tesco Lotus will have Instant Thai Nationalities for sale.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi kwiz117,

We have gotten some clients for the legal end but its not a profit generating department. We do it more as a service of getting our name known.

As for business brokerage, we have had a number of people that e-mail us. We had 120 business transfers last year, don't know of one from this forum.

I enjoy forums and this one is good. I like it and do enjoy responding when I have time. That's why we sponsored it.

All a man has his word. I write freely giving my knowledge or opinion without wondering what people think but that is just me.

Long live the forum. Where everyone can speak their mind.

[Jimbo]

Thats more like it!!

[Limbo]

The present government has taken measures which benefit foreigners as well. Sometimes I think that too little credit is given to this government in these matters.

Take for instance the 30 Baht health scheme.

Many of us, married or living together with a Thai partner, will remember the days that one automatically was asked to pay for doctor visits, hospitals and medicine when the parents in law, brothers and sisters, nephews and nieces fell ill. Yes, sometimes even when the brother of the sister's neighbour needed medical treatment. Nowadays you can give your family-members each thirty Baht, thereby saving thousands a year.

Also the Village Fund Project will, as Sunbelt already pointed out, show its blessings in the future. As I red in Thai press, much of this money is spontaneously used to improve communication, namely by buying cars and telephones. And as we all know, communication is one of the conditions for economic development. Especially in remote and rural area's the mobile phones will have a great impact on efficiency by increasing inter-village contacts.

Also the seed of the One Tambon One Product will be harvested in due time.

I can clearly see that it already was an impuls for the construction businesses all around the country. Most tambons (districts) seem to have used the assets to build a sales-center for selling their more or less unique product. And I think that, stimulated by the mere existence of these still empty sales-centers, in most villages the Tambon Organization will be very busy to define what their 'One Product' will be.

But realize the practical side of the problem. No Tambon wants to have the same 'One Product' as another 'One Tambon'. Many tambons see 'rice' as their speciality. With other words: the OTOP will work as an enormeous stimulant, giving space to the creative powers in the small communities.

Some of the contribuants to these columns wondered how these loans were going to be paid back. Do they really think that the government hasn't been thinking about that? And what about the fact that a person who (unluckily) can not pay back can bring his or her land to the bank even when it doesn't have the best papers? Wat about the registration of loan-sharks, which is started by this government? Please, give them time!

I share Sunbelt's optimism, but unlike he does, I base it not on official figures, but on observation in my own area. The government is really doing its best, but, as it is dependent on the material handed over to it by its civil service, I am very careful with interpretations. I am sure that the Prime Minister is working on that as well, after he was so bitterly deceived by his civil servants in the bird flu case.

Keep up the spirit gentlemen!

[peteypie]

It has been mentioned on this site, that foreign 'native speaking' contract teachers get higher salaries than their Thai colleagues. While this comment is, on the face of it, true, it doesn't take into account all the 'added extras' that Thai teachers can gradually accrue whilst climbing the academic ladder. Such as, reduced contact hours during the normal working week (picked up by their contract teacher colleagues) supplemented by huge tax free salaries for teaching on Saturday and Sunday, 'for the community' of course?! Over-time payments for teaching more than ten contact hours (not available to contract teachers) First pick at any available overtime, when ever it arrives. Seeing their farang colleagues being paid reduced rates for 'Conversation and Discussion and Oral English Practices (steady lads!) classes', 'because they're so easy to teach'!!! Whilst they can stick to their text books with which to 'beat' their students to death with, at a 'superior' rate of pay. Let's get real here shall we!! For those who are under the illusion that farang are paid way over the odds for teaching, this includes our much maligned and discriminated against colleagues from the Philippines, Sri Lanka etc, who do a fine job for slave wages, lets take on board the following items that may apply to most of us in this profession, in part or whole. Then judge who comes out on top. Please, also remember, the Koa San Road backpacker brigade, while fulfilling a dubious need, are not in the majority and do not constitute part of the profession of teachers that make a commitment to Thai students.

• Be aware, the Thai Education Ministry dictates the salaries paid to foreign contract teachers in line with supply and demand. The contract teachers do not have any right to negotiate their own salaries.

• In most institutions, the salary level of contract teachers has not been changed since before the economic crises of 1997. However the value and purchasing power of the baht has diminished drastically.

• Contract teachers, unlike their Thai counterparts, have NO security of tenure, NO employment rights and NO rights to remain in Thailand should their employment be terminated, for what ever reason.

• In many Western countries, the level of unemployment benefit is equal or higher than the salaries they receive in Thai institutions.

• Many contract teachers sacrifice their good pensions, and their career prospects, by coming to teach in Thailand.

• Many contract teachers have financial commitments outside of Thailand, such as outstanding bank loans, health insurance payments, mortgages, student loan repayments etc, that have to be serviced by their Thai baht salaries.

• Many contract teachers will, when they return to their homes, suffer from having no or greatly diminished credit ratings.

• Many teachers will never be able to obtain loans to buy homes, as long periods abroad will disqualify them from obtaining mortgages.

• Many contract teachers will be unable to secure teaching positions when they return to their countries, as, unfortunately, experience in Thai educational institutions is not valued by Western institutions.

• Savings accrued by contract teachers, while in Thailand, frequently become virtually worthless when transferred abroad.

• Contract teachers often sacrifice friendships, built up over many years, by spending long periods away from their family and friends.

• Thailand, unlike some other countries, does not supply its contract teachers with annual leave tickets with which to visit their families.

• Contract teachers are not eligible for further professional training courses like their Thai colleagues but are often criticized for being academically ‘lazy’.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What is going to happen when the new minimum rates of pay for foreigners kicks in ?

[cdnvic]

Although Sunbelt often posts great information one should take some of their comments with a grain of salt. Their business depends on folks investing money in Thailand if its a business or house. Lets be fair, there are other countries with excellents future and although I love Thailand, I can immagine their being better places to invest your money

I agree with your post to a point Jimbo, "buyer beware" always has to come into play whenever someone has something to gain from it. In fairness to Sunbelt though, it should be noticed that he has invested in his business here and if he didn't believe in what he was saying I'm sure he would put his dollars elsewhere. If Sunbelt Asia was an office in London, Toronto, or elsewhere trying to tell me why I should "Buy Thai", I would definitly trust it less than one that actually had its feet on the ground here.

Yes, I think there's better places to invest, but that doesn't mean that Thailand is a no-go zone as far as business is concerned.

cv

[Guest IT Manager]

Although Sunbelt often posts great information one should take some of their comments with a grain of salt. Their business depends on folks investing money in Thailand if its a business or house. Lets be fair, there are other countries with excellent future and although I love Thailand, I can imagine their being better places to invest your money

Jimbo, almost weekly I send people to Sunbelt. Why?

Do you think I am stupid and give MY clients crappy information. No. I don't. While I may at times have issues with Greg's information from the perspective of regional sentimentalism, the info is always good. Remember. I do the same as he does, but at a minuscule level, compared to him.

It is very unfair to label a post as being "lets' get new customers and screw the facts".

In my view, Greg is accurate with his overview, and IMHO, spends as much time researching the FACTS as opposed to VIEWS which you post. It's all very well to be a "long term resident" but that's bugger all good to anyone,

At the end of the day, an incoming retiree or business person would be far and away better off listening to Sunbelt, than he would be, to your expat gossip, which in my opinion, humble or otherwise, rests within the confines of a gin and tonic on the verandah.

And if that is hard to swallow, try a slice of lemon.

[mrvietnam2001]

Are Sling sing and jimbo one and the same?

Or is it "is"? Forgive me, I don't speak English. I speak American.

Ot shall we try VietNamese?

Mr Vietnam

[george]

Thread temporarily closed for moderating issues.

/Admin

[Guest IT Manager]

Last night, there was some heat over the issue of people bagging a sponsor.

The terms of Service are clear. Don't do it. Reason, right of reply applies to everyone and in my view if you have an issue with something an advertiser does/says, take it up in PM, thats why it's there.

I have deleted the posts relating to what I said to Jimbo and Sing Sling, as well as their replies specific to my view of what they said. We call it re-writing history.

If you personally use one of our sponsors, then find an issue, you can address that. You MAY NOT presuppose what service you will get if you avail yourself of their services, and post such presuppositions on the board.

As an admin, I have views about some postings, and I suppose on the whole, perhaps some posters as well. When someone says something in thread I personally disagree with, or dislike, I have commented, since I think it's better than censoring.

Those posters who feel this is not right, may address the issue to me in PM, not in thread, and I will reply, by PM.