Idiot Compassion

[Yooyung]

Hello there,

I have slightly curly question but I believe it belongs in this forum....but it is also a question I want to talk about on a more general level as well as from a buddhist point of view.

I am married to a Thai lady, we have a son together. I lived over in Thailand for quite a few years but have been living in Australia for the last 2 1/2 finishing off a degree...coming back to live there again early next year.

Anyway, the other day my mum said something to me and my wife that struck me as being a little off. She told us that next year my brother and his wife/kids want to take their 3 kids ot Vietnam "to show their kids how lucky they've got it".... Now at first it seems kind of reasonable but after thinking about it for a split second it seemed a bit crass...bearing in mind my wife is from a relatively poor farming family. Thailand and Vietnam are not worlds apart. My wife really didnt like the sound of it and I am on her side.

I think it is perhaps a western thing to do, to go to another country and gloat at others to make you feel that you are lucky? I am not saying my brother or his family are bad people, on the contrary I think that they think its a perfectly normal thing to do. I am just not comfortable with the idea behind it. I am used to living in thailand and not having 5 star luxury to me is not even an issue.

It all brings me to the question - Is that a form of 'idiot compassion'? Or is it just misguided gloating, or am I overreacting? It seems a bit like me saying to my son in a few years, when he is older "lets go back to Australia to see how fat everyone is getting" In one way a lesson could be learnt from doing that but it seems like a strange way to do it.

Anyway...who says the poor people are any less happy than anyone else? I am trying to work this one out. Will my sons kids really learn anything from seeing poorer vietnamese people? or will they just come away thinking that material wealth is the only measure of happiness and that vietnamese people dont have as much 'stuff' ?

So, idiot compassion or a reasonable thing to do?

[weary]

The premise seems a little warped, but the actual effects of going may not be as warped. Discussing the cultural and material differences with an open mind should lead to better understanding.

[rockyysdt]

"to show their kids how lucky they've got it".

This is possibly due to a poor choice of words on your brothers part, rather than an expression of gloating.

It might be very possible that he really meant: "to show his kids that many in other parts of the world aren't as fortunate as us".

Rather than gloating, I believe this can have considerable merit.

Firstly it may teach his kids to live life with a sense of gratitude for their fortunate situation.

Secondly, seeing those who live squalid lives, may rouse a sense of compassion and generosity.

These days, I personally dislike wasting resources, and think twice before spending.

I'm also inclined to be more giving to charitable causes and to individuals in need.

It depends how your brother goes about introducing his kids to the plight of others and the example he sets regarding charity and compassion to others.

Maybe you can approach your brother to learn whether he merely expressed himself incorrectly.

In other words find out his motive.

What does he see as the benefit of his kids seeing others worse off?

Edited November 26, 2012 by rockyysdt

[beautifulthailand99]

If your eyes , ears and heart is open you can learn lessons everywhere and particuarly in the most mundane of places. If one of those is closed then would probably best to work on that before travelling the world in search of insight.

[Jawnie]

You are over-reacting. It is not 'idiot compassion', it is not any kind of compassion. It is common knowledge that international travel provides excellent, life-change experiences of other cultures, regardless of the motivation. It will be fun, too!

[gamini]

Australians always seem to boast about how wondeful thier country is . We went to Australia for two years . We did not like it and returned to Thailand. We took our Thai Children with us and it convinced them what a wonderful country Thailand was comapared to Australia. .

[theslime]

Australians always seem to boast about how wondeful thier country is . We went to Australia for two years . We did not like it and returned to Thailand. We took our Thai Children with us and it convinced them what a wonderful country Thailand was comapared to Australia. .

Both Countries have their Charms, and living/fishing on the Coast north of Cairns, where fresh water rain forest streams, meet the reef is pretty hard to beat, or the love of isolation in the bush with no one to give you any grief. maybe ya cant please everyone but a lot of people want to go to Oz. Me I like to go back and forward and give the body a rest from Partyland.

[MrRealDeal]

I don't think your an idiot with no compassion I just think you spend to much time minding other peoples bisness.

Edited November 27, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[theslime]

Sorry one more thing, In Oz when I ask Asian people how do they like Oz, they all gush how wonderful it is. But then I say that its boring ,and there is no foods stalls and music and people walking around, they suddenly agree and say how boring it all is.

[fabianfred]

travel certainly educates, especially to a completely different culture, but one needs to go with an open inquiring mind, not to peer at strange things like visiting a zoo.

[Several]

Aussies can be racist without realising it. They don't mean any harm (usually). I have heard countless times Aussies say "Best country in the world, mate" and they never ask themselves what that means. Its a good place to live, but they do say insensitive things without thinking. There again your average Thai thinks Thailand is the greatest thing on earth too. I'm sure the kids will make their own decisions about whats good and whats not.

[Wat dee]

I think the idea is great.Maybe poor choice of words,more likely lack of verbal skills.

[MAJIC]

Could be that this idea of your Brothers may backfire on him,and convince the children that materialism is the only thing worth having in life? And being poor is the thing to strive not to be,which is different than making them aware how lucky they are?

[Potosi]

Your brother and his wife want to show to the kids how much better 'freedom' is than communism, and they might be in for a dissapointment. They might find the Vietnamese kids happier, smarter and better educated than themselves. They don't have a flat-screen TV in every room of course.

[BoonToong]

When my kids got the chance to experience various cultures around the world during our holiday and work travels, we never 'gloated'. But what it did allow my kids to see was that many, many people around the world can be extremely happy without a colour TV, playstation, lots of toys, fashion, fast food, etc

Gloating is only done if you choose to see it that way; but you can choose not to.

[Xangsamhua]

I think the OP has raised an interesting question, and the responses have been varied and multi-faceted. Understandings of compassion, complacency, materialism, happiness, racism and intention have all been presented, and I've found each contribution, even the dismissive one, helpful.

I don't think the OP should be too critical of the intention behind his mother's comment, even though it caused some concern for his wife. It's true that Australians who have not travelled, or only made short trips as a tourist, can be complacent, but they have some basis for it.

Australia has been and still is a remarkably lucky country for most people in so many ways, and it's a good thing if children and adolescents can have a chance to verify this for themselves. Of course material prosperity doesn't guarantee happiness, nor does relative poverty guarantee greater misery; however, while acknowledging the limits of material wealth, I don't think many of us reject it as an alternative to spending most of our time and effort just to make ends meet.

And the benefits of freedom and equality have much to be said for them, too. People can make the best of living in a hierarchical and dictatorial regime, but the evidence over time is that they flourish better where individual freedom, an ethos of equality, resourcefulness, creativity and entrepreneurialism are encouraged. There may not be many places now where these qualities are given priority, but Australians probably think they have these things to a reasonable degree and the perception is what counts. An avant-garde person in Vietnam, or even one who in any way is seen to challenge those in authority, will be blocked or, if not, has to live with the reality that he or she may be blocked in the not too distant future. Travel probably won't help much, though, in this regard. The average tourist is unlikely to see monks and nuns being beaten, churches being burnt down, dissidents being arrested and hauled before kangaroo courts, or children being blatantly indoctrinated in school.

I doubt any compassion is "idiotic". Some is unwise and misdirected, but only in my mind, perhaps not in the minds of others. These are the things we argue about. Is it wise to show material compassion to people who are lazy and dishonest? Is it wise to make that judgement of people without really knowing why they are the way they are? To what extent is material compassion affordable? Is it right to deny my children certain benefits in order to improve the lot of other people's children? Gandhi's compassion was seen by many as unworldly, unrealistic and foolish, but did it lead to the disasters that followed decisions made by more "realistic" and "pragmatic" people? The partition of India and the estimated 500,000 deaths that resulted were the consequence of ego-identity, not foolish compassion. It was Gandhi's more worldly-wise opponents who brought this about, not the naively compassionate Mahatma.

The OP has served us well by asking a question that goes to the heart of the matter: Is compassion always wise? Is complacency really complacent when it generates a desire for one's children and grandchildren to be better aware of their good fortune?

[bankei]

This is an Australian thing. Australians are indoctrinated from an early age about Australia being the 'lucky country' and how lucky we are etc. The newspapers frequently show evidence of mass groups of foreigners doing anything to get into Australia - boat people risking their lives to sneak in. Kiwis coming over to live on unemployment benefits etc. This is reflected in immigration policies making it diffucult for Thais to get visas because they won't want to live and will stay here illegally if they get in. etc

Same thing happens in other countries. Look at how Thais are indoctrinated etc.

[manarak]

OP, I can't offer a Buddhist point of view, but I think the Monk would agree with me if I say "you think too mutt".

Your mom probably just wants to have the kids near her and not in some remote country.