China Conducts Successful Landing On First Aircraft Carrier

[folium]

People laughed at the Japanese when they turned up with a ramshackle motorcycle at the Isle of Man TT back in the 50's. That smile is long gone.

The Chinese now have a capacity they didn't have before, all they will do now is improve and increase capacity. Give it 30 years the Chinese will be the biggest economy in the World, they'll own a note so large against the USA they'll be able to build a new carrier every month on the interest earned.

In 30 years the China economy and its armaments will be long gone. Check out this link:

http://www.theblaze....in-china-ahead/

No carriers, no CCP or PRC. The only question is whether China collapses quietly and peacefully or tries to go out with a bang.

Strewth!

The Blaze...Glen Beck's latest vehicle for self promotion and money making?

Richard Branson has just bet Willie Walsh (of BA/Iberia) 1 million Sterling that the Virgin brand will still be flying in 5 years time and Walsh has offered a forfeit of a knee in the nuts at the losers expense.

China/PRC/CCP/PLAN's carrier fleet will exist in 30 years time...like it or not. Even in the wildest Tea Party/Fox News dreams this would be an easy bet to win, what would you like to wager?

Try this link then, at the Financial Times if you don't like the particular one I had provided : http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz2FJzo8iEL

Or you can check out this link to the Wall Street Journal: http://www.marketwat...govt-2012-10-23

Then there's this one at Bloomberg Financial News: http://www.bloomberg...wth-engine.html

If you'd like a few more links to other establishment news organizations, lemme know. I have plenty of links and sources concerning the concern over a coming collapse of the CCP-PRC.

The one thing the CPC understands and puts above all else is self-survival.

As the political compact in China is about the CPC delivering economic advancement in return for restricting civil liberties, economic issues are top of the agenda for the new hierarchy in China. While not immune to the global economic woes, particularly those in Europe.

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21568405-although-economy-mend-lingering-worries-remain-understated-recovery

To modify an earlier wager I tried to get theBlether to sign up to, how about a wager on which of the following will happen first:

1. CPC collapses and loses control of China.

2. Scotland gains independence

3. Scotland wins the (football) World Cup.

4. The EU collapses.

5. Armed conflict breaks out in the South China Sea between China and Philippines/Vietnam/any other SE Asian nation.

In the meantime the PLAN are cracking on with building their own, homemade carriers, first launch date 2014?

Edited December 17, 2012 by folium

[theblether]

Hmmm, I'm going for the Scottish Independence option.

[folium]

Hmmm, I'm going for the Scottish Independence option.

Planning on investing in a Scottish aircraft carrier to protect the shipping lanes to ensure the safe import of Buckfast Abbey's finest (always loved the idea of staunch Rangers fans supping the brew of Papist monks!)?

[Bwanatickey]

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

[maidu]

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

China has set in cement footings and put in anti-aircraft batteries on at least one of the Spratly islands, and built a dock there, along with military barracks. If you want to look at Chinese history of the past 100 or so years, then it's a checkered and bloody tapestry. China has been both victim and aggressor at various times. It's most dire suffering and loss of life has come by its own people. The 'Great Leap Forward' and 'Cultural Revolution' are the equivelent to country-wide self-infliction by a thousand cuts. Periodic famines didn't help, and much of that was due to the abysmal leadership skills of Mao. Unfortunately, it's Mao-influenced dictocrats who are now running the country, and there's no more democracy currently, than during the past decades of widespread and profound suffering.

[Bwanatickey]

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

China has set in cement footings and put in anti-aircraft batteries on at least one of the Spratly islands, and built a dock there, along with military barracks. If you want to look at Chinese history of the past 100 or so years, then it's a checkered and bloody tapestry. China has been both victim and aggressor at various times. It's most dire suffering and loss of life has come by its own people. The 'Great Leap Forward' and 'Cultural Revolution' are the equivelent to country-wide self-infliction by a thousand cuts. Periodic famines didn't help, and much of that was due to the abysmal leadership skills of Mao. Unfortunately, it's Mao-influenced dictocrats who are now running the country, and there's no more democracy currently, than during the past decades of widespread and profound suffering.

Absolutely true,they have self inflicted wounds in the past,and Japan caused bitter wounds. The new generation of young business people will not allow the Communist party to make the same mistakes.The business community are very clever,and have a lot to loose if the ruling communists mess up.Would they allow it,no. China needs the iron grip of the state to function. Look what happened in Iraq when the Baath party was removed.

[oldsailor35]

The days when a good Destroyer screen would protect a Carrier are well and truely over ! Take the latest Brit submarine for instance, it cannot be heard and can take out a target from hundreds of miles away, so what chance a huge target such as a Carrier.

[Payboy]

China Conducts Successful Landing On First Aircraft Carrier

Sounds like they're in a real jam until they can manage a successful take-off.

[folium]

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

Depending on your definition of "countries attacked", and being quite ruthless, I score the USA at 18 in the last 60 years. And the winners are....

Guatemala, Cuba, DR, Grenada, N.Korea, Lebanon, N.Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Nicaragua.

China scores: Tibet, Taiwan, India, S. Korea, S. Vietnam, Vietnam, Philippines, USSR.

Undoubtedly China scores less than the USA but it is still impressive especially given China's supposedly non-interventionist approach to foreign policy (unless its really important of course)....

Bottom line neither are very nice when it comes to foreign adventures to further strategic interests, and with the rate of arms spending currently underway in PRC it's not for adventure tourism!

Have a read of this excellent, well-balanced article which highlights without overblowing China's military rise:

http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

Adding some detail:

PRC sent almost a million troops into N. Korea in late 1950.

Earlier that year 40,000 troops of the PLA invaded and crushed the Tibetans.

In October 1962, taking advantage of the world's attention on the Cuban Missile Crisis, 80,000 PLA troops invaded 2 areas of India in the Aksai Chin and South Tibet.

China continues to claim ownership of the Indian province of Arunachal Pradesh and there were further border clashes in 1967 and 1987. In continuation of this and due to the fact that India gave sanctuary to the Dalai Lama, the "non-interventionist" PRC has been supporting the Maoist Naxalite insurgent movement in NE India for the last 50 years.

More recently and closer to home the PLA had another "school trip" into Vietnam in Feb 1979 with 200,000 troops and the subsequent fighting killed approximately 50,0000 on both sides (ie almost equal to total US deaths in Vietnam), in a month of hard fighting.

The aggression with Vietnam continued with more border skirmishes and culminating in a full blown naval battle off the Spratly islands in 1988 sinking 2 Vietnamese naval craft, killing 60 and capturing a further 40 (including a CIA agent). The PLA subsequently occupied (and still do) a chunk of the islands, and for good measure seized a Philippine island in the same chain (this time without any fighting as the Philippine military backed off).

From Mar-Nov 1969 the Communist brothers, China & the Soviet Union, fought a series of skirmishes with some 700 deaths on both sides over ownership of a river island.

The PLAN won their first battle in 300 years when they swatted the fading S.Vietnamese navy in Feb 1974, and occupied the Paracel islands (an illegal occupation which continues to this day).

[chuckd]

Depending on your definition of "countries attacked", and being quite ruthless, I score the USA at 18 in the last 60 years. And the winners are....

Guatemala, Cuba, DR, Grenada, N.Korea, Lebanon, N.Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Nicaragua.

China scores: Tibet, Taiwan, India, S. Korea, S. Vietnam, Vietnam, Philippines, USSR.

Undoubtedly China scores less than the USA but it is still impressive especially given China's supposedly non-interventionist approach to foreign policy (unless its really important of course)....

Bottom line neither are very nice when it comes to foreign adventures to further strategic interests, and with the rate of arms spending currently underway in PRC it's not for adventure tourism!

Have a read of this excellent, well-balanced article which highlights without overblowing China's military rise:

http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

Adding some detail:

PRC sent almost a million troops into N. Korea in late 1950.

Earlier that year 40,000 troops of the PLA invaded and crushed the Tibetans.

In October 1962, taking advantage of the world's attention on the Cuban Missile Crisis, 80,000 PLA troops invaded 2 areas of India in the Aksai Chin and South Tibet.

China continues to claim ownership of the Indian province of Arunachal Pradesh and there were further border clashes in 1967 and 1987. In continuation of this and due to the fact that India gave sanctuary to the Dalai Lama, the "non-interventionist" PRC has been supporting the Maoist Naxalite insurgent movement in NE India for the last 50 years.

More recently and closer to home the PLA had another "school trip" into Vietnam in Feb 1979 with 200,000 troops and the subsequent fighting killed approximately 50,0000 on both sides (ie almost equal to total US deaths in Vietnam), in a month of hard fighting.

The aggression with Vietnam continued with more border skirmishes and culminating in a full blown naval battle off the Spratly islands in 1988 sinking 2 Vietnamese naval craft, killing 60 and capturing a further 40 (including a CIA agent). The PLA subsequently occupied (and still do) a chunk of the islands, and for good measure seized a Philippine island in the same chain (this time without any fighting as the Philippine military backed off).

From Mar-Nov 1969 the Communist brothers, China & the Soviet Union, fought a series of skirmishes with some 700 deaths on both sides over ownership of a river island.

The PLAN won their first battle in 300 years when they swatted the fading S.Vietnamese navy in Feb 1974, and occupied the Paracel islands (an illegal occupation which continues to this day).

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

Depending on your definition of "countries attacked", and being quite ruthless, I score the USA at 18 in the last 60 years. And the winners are....

Guatemala, Cuba, DR, Grenada, N.Korea, Lebanon, N.Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Nicaragua.

China scores: Tibet, Taiwan, India, S. Korea, S. Vietnam, Vietnam, Philippines, USSR.

Undoubtedly China scores less than the USA but it is still impressive especially given China's supposedly non-interventionist approach to foreign policy (unless its really important of course)....

Bottom line neither are very nice when it comes to foreign adventures to further strategic interests, and with the rate of arms spending currently underway in PRC it's not for adventure tourism!

Have a read of this excellent, well-balanced article which highlights without overblowing China's military rise:

http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

Adding some detail:

PRC sent almost a million troops into N. Korea in late 1950.

Earlier that year 40,000 troops of the PLA invaded and crushed the Tibetans.

In October 1962, taking advantage of the world's attention on the Cuban Missile Crisis, 80,000 PLA troops invaded 2 areas of India in the Aksai Chin and South Tibet.

China continues to claim ownership of the Indian province of Arunachal Pradesh and there were further border clashes in 1967 and 1987. In continuation of this and due to the fact that India gave sanctuary to the Dalai Lama, the "non-interventionist" PRC has been supporting the Maoist Naxalite insurgent movement in NE India for the last 50 years.

More recently and closer to home the PLA had another "school trip" into Vietnam in Feb 1979 with 200,000 troops and the subsequent fighting killed approximately 50,0000 on both sides (ie almost equal to total US deaths in Vietnam), in a month of hard fighting.

The aggression with Vietnam continued with more border skirmishes and culminating in a full blown naval battle off the Spratly islands in 1988 sinking 2 Vietnamese naval craft, killing 60 and capturing a further 40 (including a CIA agent). The PLA subsequently occupied (and still do) a chunk of the islands, and for good measure seized a Philippine island in the same chain (this time without any fighting as the Philippine military backed off).

From Mar-Nov 1969 the Communist brothers, China & the Soviet Union, fought a series of skirmishes with some 700 deaths on both sides over ownership of a river island.

The PLAN won their first battle in 300 years when they swatted the fading S.Vietnamese navy in Feb 1974, and occupied the Paracel islands (an illegal occupation which continues to this day).

...and if you are totally ruthless you can go back 70 years for the US and include all of Northern Africa, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Philippines, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, and, not to forget, Italy, Japan and Germany.

[folium]

The 60 year window was chosen given the CPC took over control of China in 1949 and thus gives a fairer comparison between USA & PRC.

[maidu]

The plot thickens. I had heard Indonesia had a dispute with China over one or more islands, but it wasn't until reading the link mentioned above in the Jakarta Post, that I realized it refers to the Natuna Islands. Those islands are, as are all the other disputed islands in the S.China Sea, located much further from China than they are from the other claimant countries. So let's do a tally: First, the countries which have territorial disputes with China over islands: Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brunei. Malaysia and South Korea could probably be on that list also. Then there is India, with disputes over several border demarcations. If Tibet is included, then China has active territorial disputes with between 8 and 10 of its neighbors. That's a lot of disputes. They're going to need more than an aircraft carrier to gain success with their land grabs.

Has China military bases in Phillipines,Japan and South Korea.? Has China ever sent bombers into Vietnam,Japan and South Korea to bomb them merclessly.? In 1900's who invaded the Philippines and turning it into a colony of the.....

China has set in cement footings and put in anti-aircraft batteries on at least one of the Spratly islands, and built a dock there, along with military barracks. If you want to look at Chinese history of the past 100 or so years, then it's a checkered and bloody tapestry. China has been both victim and aggressor at various times. It's most dire suffering and loss of life has come by its own people. The 'Great Leap Forward' and 'Cultural Revolution' are the equivelent to country-wide self-infliction by a thousand cuts. Periodic famines didn't help, and much of that was due to the abysmal leadership skills of Mao. Unfortunately, it's Mao-influenced dictocrats who are now running the country, and there's no more democracy currently, than during the past decades of widespread and profound suffering.

Absolutely true,they have self inflicted wounds in the past,and Japan caused bitter wounds. The new generation of young business people will not allow the Communist party to make the same mistakes.The business community are very clever,and have a lot to loose if the ruling communists mess up.Would they allow it,no. China needs the iron grip of the state to function. Look what happened in Iraq when the Baath party was removed.

Not sure if you've got consistancy in your post, above. You say business people will not allow...... (Maidu's comment): yet what can business people do to counter the iron fist of the monolithic politburo?

I think we agree, that if the Chinese top echelon gets threatened or toppled, it will be very messy for tens of millions there. It's like trying to remove a giant stone head (of Mao, if you will) cemented to the top of a large pyramid. It's not going to get eased off. Instead it's going to resist and crack and cause a lot of grief, as the pieces come tumbling down.

The more the Chinese people become aware of democracy (many Chinese watched the US campaign process and election), the more they will see the light. Also, a movie about insurgents (Vendetta) was earlier banned, but a few days ago it was aired late at night on Chinese TV. That's a big deal in iron-fisted, heavily controlled, no-free-speech China. Let's hope things improve there before that aircraft carrier is deployed in the S.China Sea. Actually, an inter-country armed conflict would be a big plus for China's old men at the top of the totem pole. It would divert attention away from domestic problems and compel the sheeple to look to their leaders / and build nationalism.

Incidentally, it's exactly 90 years since the first aircraft carrier was deployed. .....by the USA, of course.