Hundreds Of Thai Schools Shut Over Militant Attacks

[simple1]

The insurgency tactic to keep the military/police distracted and tied down with escort/patrols is going to be an ongoing success. Understand the children need to have an education, but looks as though nothing is going to change. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been announced that more specialist counter insurgency army personnel are being deployed, with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution?

Edited November 28, 2012 by simple1

[Scoop1]

The insurgency tactic to keep the military/police distracted and tied down with escort/patrols is going to be an ongoing success. Understand the children need to have an education, but looks as though nothing is going to change. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been announced that more specialist counter insurgency army personnel are being deployed, with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution?

"with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution"? There is no such thing as a political solution, when you are dealing with coward muslim extremist's as i have said previously they only know one way, violence and killing of inocent people that is their breeding and belief, so, GIVE TO THEM!! like never before, thats the only way to fix a muslin problem, get rid of them once and for all, and Thailand will be better for it

scoop

[simple1]

The insurgency tactic to keep the military/police distracted and tied down with escort/patrols is going to be an ongoing success. Understand the children need to have an education, but looks as though nothing is going to change. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been announced that more specialist counter insurgency army personnel are being deployed, with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution?

"with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution"? There is no such thing as a political solution, when you are dealing with coward muslim extremist's as i have said previously they only know one way, violence and killing of inocent people that is their breeding and belief, so, GIVE TO THEM!! like never before, thats the only way to fix a muslin problem, get rid of them once and for all, and Thailand will be better for it

scoop

Good to see your complete lack of knowledge on how conflicts such as happening in the Deep South have been resolved. Please provide info on where "insurgency" killings has ceased and the local population then enjoy a peaceful existence by purely deploying military force. It is always achieved by utilisation of enforcement agencies and political dialogue (carrot & stick).

[Scoop1]

The insurgency tactic to keep the military/police distracted and tied down with escort/patrols is going to be an ongoing success. Understand the children need to have an education, but looks as though nothing is going to change. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been announced that more specialist counter insurgency army personnel are being deployed, with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution?

"with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution"? There is no such thing as a political solution, when you are dealing with coward muslim extremist's as i have said previously they only know one way, violence and killing of inocent people that is their breeding and belief, so, GIVE TO THEM!! like never before, thats the only way to fix a muslin problem, get rid of them once and for all, and Thailand will be better for it

scoop

Good to see your complete lack of knowledge on how conflicts such as happening in the Deep South have been resolved. Please provide info on where "insurgency" killings has ceased and the local population then enjoy a peaceful existence by purely deploying military force. It is always achieved by utilisation of enforcement agencies and political dialogue (carrot & stick).

yes thats true, "a complete lack of knowledge", just like Israel and Palestine, how may times have there been political dialogue between those two countries, and how long does the cease fire last, the facts are, that wherever there is muslim extremists there is cowardly violence,and killing of innocent people, what part of that dont you understand, they are INNOCENT PEOPLE !!!!!, defenceless children and teachers . Maybe you should go down there and open some political dialogue with them and see how you end up, its very very simple, simple1, if they dont get what they want they resort to their typical methods of dialogue, killing innocent people

cheers

scoop

[simple1]

The insurgency tactic to keep the military/police distracted and tied down with escort/patrols is going to be an ongoing success. Understand the children need to have an education, but looks as though nothing is going to change. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been announced that more specialist counter insurgency army personnel are being deployed, with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution?

"with a redoubled effort to seek a political solution"? There is no such thing as a political solution, when you are dealing with coward muslim extremist's as i have said previously they only know one way, violence and killing of inocent people that is their breeding and belief, so, GIVE TO THEM!! like never before, thats the only way to fix a muslin problem, get rid of them once and for all, and Thailand will be better for it

scoop

Good to see your complete lack of knowledge on how conflicts such as happening in the Deep South have been resolved. Please provide info on where "insurgency" killings has ceased and the local population then enjoy a peaceful existence by purely deploying military force. It is always achieved by utilisation of enforcement agencies and political dialogue (carrot & stick).

yes thats true, "a complete lack of knowledge", just like Israel and Palestine, how may times have there been political dialogue between those two countries, and how long does the cease fire last, the facts are, that wherever there is muslim extremists there is cowardly violence,and killing of innocent people, what part of that dont you understand, they are INNOCENT PEOPLE !!!!!, defenceless children and teachers . Maybe you should go down there and open some political dialogue with them and see how you end up, its very very simple, simple1, if they dont get what they want they resort to their typical methods of dialogue, killing innocent people

cheers

scoop

We are not talking about the Arab/Israeli conflict. But just on that Egypt and Jordan have achieved lasting peace with Israel as an outcome of political dialogue. Both countries have Islamic extremists elements. So just answer the question "provide info on where "insurgency" killings has ceased and the local population then enjoy a peaceful existence by purely deploying military force"

Edited November 30, 2012 by simple1

[osiboy]

It's easy to jump to conclusions, especially when the word "Muslim" is involved.

You need to read up a bit on the history of the region to really understand their grievance.

Of course you CANNOT condone violence, and I'm not suggesting that it's ever justified to use violence against innocent civilians.

PERHAPS if the views of both sides were made clear in the media rather than just focusing on calling them "insurgents" or "militants" there may be a path to peace and reconciliation.

Comparing anything going on in this region with the issues in other parts of the world just because there are Muslim people involved is just showing your ignorance.

I totally disagree.

They are Muslims.

Granted the violent ones are a small percent and most Muslims are not violent.

But, killing teachers and farmers is just NOT RIGHT.

They are insurgents.

They are militants.

That is the plain and simple sad truth of the matter.

I agree with Scoop.

If hey can't live peacefully where they are (and it's obvious that they can't) send them back !

Send them back ????? You don't have a clue what you are talking about do you!

They didn't come to Thailand... it was the border that moved. They just want to live where their families lived for generations before them.

so do the north american indians and the aboriginal aussies, the difference is these ppl were there first , the muslims of patani came after hindus and muslims , which is the case in many countries being as islam is a relatively new religion compared to buhddism ,hindu or even christianity , but we dont all go around murdering ppl just becouse we dont /wont negotiate or that we are arrogant enough to think our religion is the only one that is true or right , IF pattani was given muslim status where would the other religions go ? very rare to see a church or other religious temples in a muslim country .......they want to have their cake and eat it these muslims .........if pattani was cut in half , i garantee the violence wouldn't stop, they would insist on having all of it.........empathy,reasoning ......whats that ? Edited November 30, 2012 by osiboy

[simple1]

It's easy to jump to conclusions, especially when the word "Muslim" is involved.

You need to read up a bit on the history of the region to really understand their grievance.

Of course you CANNOT condone violence, and I'm not suggesting that it's ever justified to use violence against innocent civilians.

PERHAPS if the views of both sides were made clear in the media rather than just focusing on calling them "insurgents" or "militants" there may be a path to peace and reconciliation.

Comparing anything going on in this region with the issues in other parts of the world just because there are Muslim people involved is just showing your ignorance.

I totally disagree.

They are Muslims.

Granted the violent ones are a small percent and most Muslims are not violent.

But, killing teachers and farmers is just NOT RIGHT.

They are insurgents.

They are militants.

That is the plain and simple sad truth of the matter.

I agree with Scoop.

If hey can't live peacefully where they are (and it's obvious that they can't) send them back !

Send them back ????? You don't have a clue what you are talking about do you!

They didn't come to Thailand... it was the border that moved. They just want to live where their families lived for generations before them.

so do the north american indians and the aboriginal aussies, the difference is these ppl were there first , the muslims of patani came after hindus and muslims , which is the case in many countries being as islam is a relatively new religion compared to buhddism ,hindu or even christianity , but we dont all go around murdering ppl just becouse we dont /wont negotiate or that we are arrogant enough to think our religion is the only one that is true or right , IF pattani was given muslim status where would the other religions go ? very rare to see a church or other religious temples in a muslim country .......they want to have their cake and eat it these muslims .........if pattani was cut in half , i garantee the violence wouldn't stop, they would insist on having all of it.........empathy,reasoning ......whats that ?

Not true, the only Islamic state that is purely Islamic is Saudi Arabia. Many other Islamic counties over the centuries have permitted Christian & Jewish peoples and places of worship. e.g. Until recently countries such as Egypt (9% Christian), Iraq (1 million Christians), Iran (Assyrian Christian), Syria (10% Christian). In the past 30 years or so due wars and sectarian conflict many have had to flee persecution.

[Zatoichi]

Militants view the school system as an effort by Bangkok to impose Buddhist culture on the south.

Utter rubbish, the objection is to education in general.

Education is promoted by Islam and some of the first universities and libraries were established in Islamic countries. e.g. The University of Fez claims to have had a continuous existence since 859 AD. Where I live in Pattaya, the local Muslim children attend the government schools or if the parents can afford to do so attend private Thai schools. They absolutely encourage the children to have an education. For education regards Islam they attend school at the mosque on Saturday.

It is terrible that more than 60 teachers have been murdered during the past five years in the Deep South. I understand the local language is not used in the schools and the "insurgents" see the curricula as a tool for eroding their culture. This objection no way justifies the killing of teachers. Hopefully a member of TV who has deeper knowledge can confirm if this is correct/incorrect; not just babble on with generalised misinformed comments about Muslims in Thailand.

I'll quote you as a whole but it's not going to work as by the time I finish the number of embedded quotes will exceed the software limit, if you and TV don't mind I shall quote the salient points using indent and do my best to keep the context.

Hopefully a member of TV who has deeper knowledge can confirm if this is correct/incorrect

I'm a religious/ non religious apologist which some know and quite a few have guessed. I'm a member of a number of Southern US support groups which help people who have been disavowed by family, friends and work for saying they don't believe in a particular god or gods. Whilst I do support work for other unrelated groups this is my main focus. In order to do this I have had to spend over 20 years researching the field extensively though members Ulysses G and Jingthing have better knowledge in some areas, no question.

Education is promoted by Islam and some of the first universities and libraries were established in Islamic countries. e.g. The University of Fez claims to have had a continuous existence since 859 AD.

Whre did this information come from? Who were the scribes? I put it to you that this information was plundered during centuries of conquest which resulted in a library that was unintelligible to the Islamic world and education that did come from it was not in any way going to the understanding of the Islamic world. Had they understood it then it would no doubt have been reduced to ashes.

I understand the local language is not used in the schools and the "insurgents" see the curricula as a tool for eroding their culture.

It has nothing to do with the 'language' per se but everything to do with the curricala. Evolution, reasoning and scientific dialectic are Haraam. It such things are taught in school then they have to attempt to stop it or be deemed a Kafir or Kuffar.

This is what Thailand and rest of the world are dealing with.

[Edit] Indent did not work so changed colour. Sorry.

Now let me pre-empt this by saying. I'm not a scholar I did kinda lousy in high school (when I finally discovered girls grades went out the window) and I dropped out of college a year in. I did however spend the last 12 years working and living in the middle east, forming tight local bonds. While I personally respect Islam, I am not a Muslim, or a follower of any Judeo-Christian faith.

Now that being said I can confidently say;

What "notmyself" said is just a flat out lie. Some backwards elements in Islam, as well as Christianity, and other Judeo Christian faiths, shun science. That's a no brainier, everyone knows that. But to say Islam as a whole, views education as haram is a lie. Islam has a beautiful history filled with renaissance scientists and new discoveries and advancements in astronomy and medicine Just Google "Muslim Scientists" and you get a list as long as my arm. Fast forward too today, and all I need to do is look up. Right above my response window is some add for Amity University in Dubai, admissions opening in January, sponsored by Abu Dabi Commercial Bank, with 125 scholarships for women.

Nahh man, this isn't about Islam Vs. Buddhism, it's about a dying culture turning to violence to maintain their identity, and perhaps regain their freedom.

I see it right here in Iraq with the Kurds wanting to secede from Iraq, since the British grouped them all into Iraq after beating down the ottoman empire.

So to here in Thailand, they are talking about Pattani. I'm sure everyone knows that it used to be the Sultanate of Pattni, and included a area that covered several other provinces of Thailand, like Yala and Narathiwat. They have been Muslim for ages, they were already Muslim when Ibin Battuta visited 600yrs ago. They had their own language, monarchs, and culture. And while they had paid tribute to Ayutthaya throughout several periods in history, what kept things peaceful was the fact that they always maintained their cultural identity. Then when they were annexed and torn asunder they fought, and kept fighting and are still fighting today.

Bringing peace with dignity, when annexing different countries, with different people, who have different, cultures, languages and religions, is never a bloodless or quick endeavour So let us call a spade a spade, the people are fighting in the south because they want to maintain their old cultural identity against the changing times. Not simply because they are Muslims I think their means suck, but lets not let religious bigotry muddy the reality of what this is truly all about.

[simple1]

I hope Zatoichi doesn't mind me adding to his interesting post. There is another member of TV who is a freelance journalist who covers the Deep South, he is of the firm opinion that disputes over power, smuggling & corruption is adding a lot of fuel to the conflict.

[Zatoichi]

I hope Zatoichi doesn't mind me adding to his interesting post. There is another member of TV who is a freelance journalist who covers the Deep South, he is of the firm opinion that disputes over power, smuggling & corruption is adding a lot of fuel to the conflict.

Excellent point. I don't know that much about it. however it looks allot like what I see in Iraq as well territory rights for illicit activities, and the power and wealth that comes with their control, is always a factor. They can mask their violent maneuverings under the guise of religion or politics, but under it all, the motivations may be more insidious.

[notmyself]

What "notmyself" said is just a flat out lie. Some backwards elements in Islam, as well as Christianity, and other Judeo Christian faiths, shun science.

You are putting the proverbial cart before the horse on this. Reason being the Devil's whore is a central tenet of religion in general, the Abrahamic religions even more so and with the cult of Muhammadian Islam it is paramount. You mention elements so let us go onto that....

One chef follows the book and puts a 4lb joint of beel in a preheated (170C) oven for 25 mins per lb plus 25 minutes. The other chef skewers the joint of beef with a inch wide stanless steel rod and roasts at 230C for 15 mins per lb plus 15 mins. Which one is the radical chef? The Taliban and such like are doing exactly what it says on the tin, Christian Creationists are doing the same and so called 'ultra orthodox' Jews are doing the same also.

The Muslim people in the restive south are just doing what their good book says, nothing more.

[Zatoichi]

What "notmyself" said is just a flat out lie. Some backwards elements in Islam, as well as Christianity, and other Judeo Christian faiths, shun science.

You are putting the proverbial cart before the horse on this. Reason being the Devil's whore is a central tenet of religion in general, the Abrahamic religions even more so and with the cult of Muhammadian Islam it is paramount. You mention elements so let us go onto that....

One chef follows the book and puts a 4lb joint of beel in a preheated (170C) oven for 25 mins per lb plus 25 minutes. The other chef skewers the joint of beef with a inch wide stanless steel rod and roasts at 230C for 15 mins per lb plus 15 mins. Which one is the radical chef? The Taliban and such like are doing exactly what it says on the tin, Christian Creationists are doing the same and so called 'ultra orthodox' Jews are doing the same also.

The Muslim people in the restive south are just doing what their good book says, nothing more.

I call BS. Show me.

Otherwise your just a ill informed bigot shooting off random nonsense.

[notmyself]

I call BS. Show me.

Otherwise your just a ill informed bigot shooting off random nonsense.

A salient point? Here you go http://www.listen2quran.com/default.aspx

Read (listen) up because you need to.

[simple1]

In the threads 'debating" the conflict in the Deep South there is a constant mantra that the main motivation is Jihadism aligned to Arab fundamental extremists. In the paper below, written by a Colonel in the Royal Thai Armed Forces, who graduated from the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies in Australia, he states the following:

"There are three ways of understanding the underlying causes of the conflict in southern Thailand. The first is to see it as an ethno‐nationalist conflict; the second to see it as a religious conflict; and the third is to see it as having its roots in the region’s poverty and unemployment. This section argues that religion and poverty have roles to play, they are not the main causes of the conflict. It is instead the strong sense of Malay ethnic identity that is the strongest driver behind the conflict."

For the full report go to http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

[notmyself]

In the threads 'debating" the conflict in the Deep South there is a constant mantra that the main motivation is Jihadism aligned to Arab fundamental extremists. In the paper below, written by a Colonel in the Royal Thai Armed Forces, who graduated from the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies in Australia, he states the following:

"There are three ways of understanding the underlying causes of the conflict in southern Thailand. The first is to see it as an ethno‐nationalist conflict; the second to see it as a religious conflict; and the third is to see it as having its roots in the region’s poverty and unemployment. This section argues that religion and poverty have roles to play, they are not the main causes of the conflict. It is instead the strong sense of Malay ethnic identity that is the strongest driver behind the conflict."

For the full report go to http://www.defence.g...d_Nurakkate.pdf

Cooooooooooooool, job done. I wonder if this very well known idiocy has been acted on before?

Edited December 1, 2012 by notmyself

[Zatoichi]

I call BS. Show me.

Otherwise your just a ill informed bigot shooting off random nonsense.

A salient point? Here you go http://www.listen2qu...om/default.aspx

Read (listen) up because you need to.

Ok so I guess it's the ill informed bigot then.

That's just a link to Quran, audio with subtitles. That would be like me saying Jesus was slain by a giant flying spaghetti monster, and when people call BS I hand em a copy of the Bible.

Lazy, weak, and hateful.

[notmyself]

I call BS. Show me.

Otherwise your just a ill informed bigot shooting off random nonsense.

A salient point? Here you go http://www.listen2qu...om/default.aspx

Read (listen) up because you need to.

That's just a link to Quran, audio with subtitles. That would be like me saying Jesus was slain by a giant flying spaghetti monster, and when people call BS I hand em a copy of the Bible.

But you would have provided me (FOC?) with the means to know that what you are saying is not true. I seriously doubt that you have even read the Quran. Read (listen) to it, you may be surprised.

[Scott]

I think it's prudent to be civil to one another on this thread.

It's a complex problem.

Please stay on topic.

[simple1]

In the threads 'debating" the conflict in the Deep South there is a constant mantra that the main motivation is Jihadism aligned to Arab fundamental extremists. In the paper below, written by a Colonel in the Royal Thai Armed Forces, who graduated from the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies in Australia, he states the following:

"There are three ways of understanding the underlying causes of the conflict in southern Thailand. The first is to see it as an ethno‐nationalist conflict; the second to see it as a religious conflict; and the third is to see it as having its roots in the region’s poverty and unemployment. This section argues that religion and poverty have roles to play, they are not the main causes of the conflict. It is instead the strong sense of Malay ethnic identity that is the strongest driver behind the conflict."

For the full report go to http://www.defence.g...d_Nurakkate.pdf

Cooooooooooooool, job done. I wonder if this very well known idiocy has been acted on before?

If you read the study he said the military fully subscribe to the pillars of Nation, Religion and King. To date the military has rejected a political resolution based upon autonomy for the Deep South, thereby amongst other factors, ongoing conflict

[johnnywishbone]

I spent a year less than 100km from Mecca.

If I never see another Muslim, it will be too soon.

[Zatoichi]

I spent a year less than 100km from Mecca.

If I never see another Muslim, it will be too soon.

*shrug* hate if ya wanna hate I guess. Not my baggage.

I spent the last 12 years living, working, loving, and playing around the gulf, Iraq, Kuwait, Emirates, Oman ect. When I wasn't there I was here in Thailand doing the same. And while I'm not Muslim, I have a healthy respect for Islam.

But really, this isn't about Islam. As simple1, myself, and others pointed out, there's much, much more at play here than just. "My God vs Your god" Cultural identity crisis, money, control over smuggling routes, power and more. Truly, take religion out of the equation, and you see the same thing happening throughout history, all around the Globe from Ireland, America, to Hong Kong. Now it's Thailand's turn to see how she will handle it.

I gotta say though, could be worse, much worse. At least the drama has been primarily contained to the south and your not scared to go down to MBK in Bangkok.

[philw]

I spent a year less than 100km from Mecca.

If I never see another Muslim, it will be too soon.

*shrug* hate if ya wanna hate I guess. Not my baggage.

I spent the last 12 years living, working, loving, and playing around the gulf, Iraq, Kuwait, Emirates, Oman ect. When I wasn't there I was here in Thailand doing the same. And while I'm not Muslim, I have a healthy respect for Islam.

But really, this isn't about Islam. As simple1, myself, and others pointed out, there's much, much more at play here than just. "My God vs Your god" Cultural identity crisis, money, control over smuggling routes, power and more. Truly, take religion out of the equation, and you see the same thing happening throughout history, all around the Globe from Ireland, America, to Hong Kong. Now it's Thailand's turn to see how she will handle it.

I gotta say though, could be worse, much worse. At least the drama has been primarily contained to the south and your not scared to go down to MBK in Bangkok.

Excellent and well said.

[technologybytes]

The western media has been hell bent on spreading Islamaphobia, and masses are truly hypnotized.

I meet lots of decent and intelligent people who have been brainwashed to believe that Muslims are evil and want to take over the world, it's pointless trying to talk sense to them (though I always make a point of trying).

Bottom line, there are good and bad in all religions. This debate really is not about religion anyway, it's about people who don't want to be told what to do by a government that they feel does not have their interests in mind. When they feel they have exhausted all normal lines of complaint, sadly they resort to violence, as it typical amongst humans the world over.