Another Sorry Story

[oldsailor35]

What do you base the comment "that alone makes it other driver's fault". Not in Thailand it doesn't. You knowledge is based on what exactly?

Basic logic and the rules of the road everywhere in the world.

If you run into the back of someone, it's your fault.

Even if they jammed on the brakes without warning, if you hit them it's because you were following too closely or going too fast. Always your fault. End of story.

But he ran into the side of the Aussie who suddenly turned across the front of him as he was about to overtake.

[oldsailor35]

His riding skills and road positioning are at the very least questionable, and in my mind the root cause of this unfortunate accident.

A speeding driver ploughed into the back of him. That's why there are laws against speeding and tailgating. You are really tying yourselves in knots trying to absolve the Thai driver of responsibility for reasons known only to yourself.

Speeding YES, but he was in an overtaking mode and the person in front turned into his path without making sure that it bwas safe ! So the driver in front should be at least 80%

[Tropicalevo]

All of what you say is true, but the story here is as much about the alleged corrupt handling of the incident by the authorities as the tragic accident itself .

The problem is that we have only seen one side of story. I am not saying that the unfortunate bloke is not telling the truth - but there is more to this one I am sure.

The BKK Post did a good article today under the Opinion Section (I have the link if you want to read it). It was headed 'Crisis of Tourist Safety'. One section of the article states that the reports on A Current Affair and in The Sun are somewhat vague on details such as dates and times _ and could easily have been embellished for viewerships and readerships used to a regular diet of sensationalised news. One problem is that such stories are so easy to take at face value.

Let us look at the accident a different way.

Police arrive at the scene. Farang couple are already off to hospital. Thai rider says "They came out of nowhere - I could not avoid them."

The police suggest that if the Aussie rider gives them some money (this may or may not have happened) then the police will not charge him with drunken driving.

Later - they realise that the Thai rider was not telling the truth (there's a new one?) What are the police to say then? They let the guy go and say 'let's forget it'.

I am not saying that this happened either.

Please do not think that I believe that the Thai guy is innocent. Some police here are operating under different moral rules sometimes. What I am trying to say though is that we have only heard from an Australian TV documentary in this case. The Thai police have said - OK - lets look into it further. But we should not assume anything until the results are known.

Would the TV documentary have even been considered if it was an Aussie guy driving into a Thai guy and the police did the same thing to the Thai guy? Of course not.

[ydraw]

What I am trying to say though is that we have only heard from an Australian TV documentary in this case.

No, you've also seen CCTV of the incident and heard from Thai police that the chief of police is under investigation. And yet you're still trying to blame the victim. Not sure what's wrong with you.

Edit: After seeing your other thread it's apparent what's going on here: You just really dislike Australians.

Edited December 3, 2012 by ydraw

[brizzle]

What ever the mistakes of the Australian couple ,crash helmets,pulling over from the left etc etc,the fact remains that the girl would still be alive if the Thai motorcycle driver had not been driving like a madman.

I have had a farang couple pull in front of my fortuner,from the left side when I assume all they wanted to do was to look and admire a sea view. It required a point blank /instant reaction on my part to avoid a possible fatal collision. I avoided them by a coat of paint....but then again I was driving safely and within the law. From the film the distance to impact that the Thai driver had was FAR greater than mine...but then again so was his speed.People have suggested that maybe the Australian had been drinking...would it be politically incorrect to suggest that the Thai had been drinking also??

[chooka]

All of what you say is true, but the story here is as much about the alleged corrupt handling of the incident by the authorities as the tragic accident itself .

The problem is that we have only seen one side of story. I am not saying that the unfortunate bloke is not telling the truth - but there is more to this one I am sure.

The BKK Post did a good article today under the Opinion Section (I have the link if you want to read it). It was headed 'Crisis of Tourist Safety'. One section of the article states that the reports on A Current Affair and in The Sun are somewhat vague on details such as dates and times _ and could easily have been embellished for viewerships and readerships used to a regular diet of sensationalised news. One problem is that such stories are so easy to take at face value.

Let us look at the accident a different way.

Police arrive at the scene. Farang couple are already off to hospital. Thai rider says "They came out of nowhere - I could not avoid them."

The police suggest that if the Aussie rider gives them some money (this may or may not have happened) then the police will not charge him with drunken driving.

Later - they realise that the Thai rider was not telling the truth (there's a new one?) What are the police to say then? They let the guy go and say 'let's forget it'.

I am not saying that this happened either.

Please do not think that I believe that the Thai guy is innocent. Some police here are operating under different moral rules sometimes. What I am trying to say though is that we have only heard from an Australian TV documentary in this case. The Thai police have said - OK - lets look into it further. But we should not assume anything until the results are known.

Would the TV documentary have even been considered if it was an Aussie guy driving into a Thai guy and the police did the same thing to the Thai guy? Of course not.

Actually there have been two sides put forward, the Thai police and media have responded (been all over the thai news) The case has been re opened, police stood down and the victims family informed.

Edited December 4, 2012 by chooka

[Tropicalevo]

Actually there have been two sides put forward, the Thai police and media have responded (been all over the thai news) The case has been re opened, police stood down and the victims family informed.

Yes the case has been reopened and a more full investigation will be carried out. (Which is what should have happened in the first place.) But no facts have been presented yet.

At this point in time I have only seen 'facts' presented by the dubious TV network (and then syndicated around the place). I have not seen any details from the police side. These will come out (hopefully) after the investigation.

As I said earlier - we have only seen one side of the story. Hopefully we will see the other side soon.

[samuibruno]

if this is indeed another thai cover up/blame scenario

then you have to deal with it in the same manner

thai style justice is all that really works

[ydraw]

At this point in time I have only seen 'facts' presented by the dubious TV network

That "dubious" TV network is the #1 commercial network in Australia. It's like saying NBC is dubious.

[Tropicalevo]

At this point in time I have only seen 'facts' presented by the dubious TV network

That "dubious" TV network is the #1 commercial network in Australia. It's like saying NBC is dubious.

and you think that it isn't?

By the way - my Australian friends laughed at your assumption that I dislike Australians. I have a number of good friends from that wonderful county. I even lived there for a while and employed hundreds of the little darlings..

It is just that I dislike biased one-sided reports that pretend to be presenting the news, the whole news and nothing but the news. Unlike some people, I do not automatically believe what is shown on TV or in the newspapers. I try and get a well rounded view of what happens.

Anyway - feel free to say "I told you so" if the police are proven to have been corrupt on this one

[ydraw]

Yeah, I'm sure it will come as a shock to everyone that police in Samui are corrupt.

It was proven by the CCTV footage that the police refused to acknowledge for days.

It was further proven by the fact that the police chief has been transferred.

You are the only holdout still insisting that it's the Australians' fault.

[carmine]

At this point in time I have only seen 'facts' presented by the dubious TV network

That "dubious" TV network is the #1 commercial network in Australia. It's like saying NBC is dubious.

and you think that it isn't?

By the way - my Australian friends laughed at your assumption that I dislike Australians. I have a number of good friends from that wonderful county. I even lived there for a while and employed hundreds of the little darlings..

It is just that I dislike biased one-sided reports that pretend to be presenting the news, the whole news and nothing but the news. Unlike some people, I do not automatically believe what is shown on TV or in the newspapers. I try and get a well rounded view of what happens.

Anyway - feel free to say "I told you so" if the police are proven to have been corrupt on this one

I've always found your posting very reasonable and i agree about disliking one sided reporting. However, this case is such a disgrace its shameful and beggars belief. Mindyou, atleast the officers concerned have apparently been "moved."

[Tropicalevo]

Yeah, I'm sure it will come as a shock to everyone that police in Samui are corrupt.

It was proven by the CCTV footage that the police refused to acknowledge for days.

It was further proven by the fact that the police chief has been transferred.

You are the only holdout still insisting that it's the Australians' fault.

You are going for a full house? None of your statements are accurate.

It was proven by the CCTV footage that the police refused to acknowledge for days. There is no proof of corruption here - just incompetence

It was further proven by the fact that the police chief has been transferred. Again, no proof. This is standard practice in Thailand when investigating a department

I am not sure what a holdout is in this context but I believe that both riders are at fault

You obviously misunderstand my motives.

The main issue of the documentary was that the Thai Police are corrupt. This is in part based on who is to blame for the accident and a probable lack of sympathy for the deceased girl's boyfriend.

I am not against Australians.

I do not believe that the accident was totally the Australian guy's fault

I have suggested a few things that may have made the Thai police respond in the way that they did.

I am glad that there could now be a proper investigation so that facts (not emotions) can be aired. (The docummentary was very long on emotion, very short on facts relating to the incident).

From a personal point of view - when I was involved in an accident where someone died, I was not that driven to apportion blame - I was more upset that a father did not go home to his kids that day!

Also - personally - I have had a number of dealings with Thai police, and I have I only been asked for money once in 12 years. (Then the policeman gave half of it back - I was supposed to haggle.)

So for me - to quote Bernard Trink - 'nuff said

[ydraw]

So basically, you're sticking by your story that Thai police are not at all corrupt, and it was all just a big misunderstanding that he was asked to pay to clear his name. Gotcha.

Edited December 7, 2012 by ydraw

[carmine]

So basically, you're sticking by your story that Thai police are not at all corrupt, and it was all just a big misunderstanding that he was asked to pay to clear his name. Gotcha.

There are some, thankfully only a few, that think this way as i encountered on here the other day, but to be fair tropo is not one of those types and is always very reasonable.

However if you find some of the attitudes as delusional and irritating as i do you should stop posting on this forum as i will be from now on.

[oldsailor35]

I find it very hard to say who's right or wrong when only one side of the story is being told. Still it's another sorry motorbike accident.

Isn't that the whole point !!! only one side is being told the side made up by the police ......

'CCTV cameras captured the moment a local driver, allegedly travelling at 80km/h, careered straight into the couple as they waited to turn into their resort on a motorcycle, A Current Affair reports.

"We came to a stand still waiting for an on-coming scooter to go past," Mr Keith said.'

Watch closely the video ! They were moving from the centre of the lane to do a right turn with no indicator working. To the (speeding) Thai they were just a couple of falang weaving around and he was doing the right thing (except for speeding) and overtaking them on the right. He did not hit from behind, but in fact "T" boned the rear passenger who like the driver, had no helmet on...............say no more !

[oldsailor35]

At this point in time I have only seen 'facts' presented by the dubious TV network

That "dubious" TV network is the #1 commercial network in Australia. It's like saying NBC is dubious.

Maybe not dubious. But extremely biased !

[chooka]

My wife tells me that the Thai has admitted to and been charged with speeding but now they need the aussie to come back and give evidence in court. I guess the prosecution will have to foot the bill. Speeding seems the lesser of possible charges will have to wait and hear more.

[oldsailor35]

This story is about four weeks old. Just wondering why it never appeared in local news. Also first time in mainstream Aus news.

No mention of Australian embassy / consulate involvement either.

Not saying it didn't happen, but Channel Nine is well known for exaggerating & fabrications of stories for ratings.

.

Did you see the video ??? what do you mean exaggerating ....did accident not happen / ...was a life not lost because ( from the video) a young Thai driving very fast hit the couple from behind ..

how can one exaggerate a loss of life .....

Clearly it cannot be the couple's fault .. they were hit from behind

RUBBISH ! they were "T" boned just in front of the rear wheel. So how can you think that this is a hit from behind, it was the r/h side that was struck.

[oldsailor35]

I find it very hard to say who's right or wrong when only one side of the story is being told. Still it's another sorry motorbike accident.

Isn't that the whole point !!! only one side is being told the side made up by the police ......

'CCTV cameras captured the moment a local driver, allegedly travelling at 80km/h, careered straight into the couple as they waited to turn into their resort on a motorcycle, A Current Affair reports.

"We came to a stand still waiting for an on-coming scooter to go past," Mr Keith said.'

What Mr Keith said he thought he was doing and what he was actually doing, needs looking at closely.

[oldsailor35]

May she rest in peace. Very unfortunate accident.They were hit by another bike,at 80 kmh, that's a hard hit.I don't know the extent of her injuries, was she wearing a helmet?

Very very sad.

NO ! neither were, but that is common for visitors !

[chooka]

May she rest in peace. Very unfortunate accident.They were hit by another bike,at 80 kmh, that's a hard hit.I don't know the extent of her injuries, was she wearing a helmet?

Very very sad.

NO ! neither were, but that is common for visitors !

and locals, including the BIB

[Tchooptip]

He can't seriously push all the blame on the other rider, he pulled out from one one side of the road and cut across to the other without even looking behind to see if anything was coming and was at no point stationary. No indicator! when turning he was way off the correct place to be turning (one side of road to other!). He couldn't possibly be an experienced rider driving like that, does it say in the report if he has a bike license, no sound on this computer. Seems like the other guy was going to fast to react but to give him full blame is wrong, I don't know what the speed limit is on that section of road but lots of the other trucks and bikes travelling at a similar speed. I do think the ozzie guy could have easily prevented this by doing what any experienced bike rider does by always checking behind several times if necessary before turning. What was his rush it was a busy road. Maybe he was too focused on what was coming towards him or had a drink who knows. Would anyone just change lanes on a motorway without checking your mirrors, indicating and checking your blind spot. Did she die from head injuries? Didn't see any helmets on the cctv.

Just my opinion.

Your opinion... is absolutely right!