Sex And Celibacy

[nokia]

Sex and Celibacy

Buddhism views sex as a natural part of human life, but also something that is associated with craving. As the Buddhist path involves overcoming craving this also means becoming less oriented towards sex. In most Buddhist traditions full-time practitioners have been celibate monks and nuns, and in traditional societies this was the only alternative to family life.

In modern Western society, however, there is far more flexibility in social roles than in the traditional societies where Buddhist forms have developed. The FWBO has recognised and taken advantage of this to develop a new kind of Buddhist Order which is based on shared commitment to following the Buddhist path, but which does not prescribe a particular life-style. This enables individuals involved in the FWBO to find creative and flexible ways of working out the essential Buddhist principles of overcoming craving in the particular conditions of their own lives. Some Order members are married, some are single, and some are celibate; some are gay and some are straight. None of these options is in and of itself seen as being better than any other: the same ethical and spiritual principles apply in each case.

The practice of celibacy is increasingly emphasised within the FWBO, as something to work towards by becoming increasingly contented and self-aware. A growing number of members of the Western Buddhist Order have become anagarikas, meaning that they have adopted a monastic lifestyle based on chastity, simplicity, and fewness of possessions.

---From FWBO website

What do you think of The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order and their views?

[sabaijai]

Very controversial to say the least. Search 'FWBO' in Wikipedia.com

[suegha]

I don't know about the specifics you raise, however, I have one point that always occurs to me when thinking about celibacy.

Surely being celibate 'increases' your sexual cravings?

[robitusson]

There are specific techniques, meditations and commitments the practicioner does which reduce the rising of sexual energy and transform it when it does rise.

[wix]

What do you think of The Friends of the Western Buddhist Order and their views?

They are controversial to say the least.

Have a look at the The FWBO-Files

Sangharakshita certainly wasn't celibate and his sexual behaviour could not be considered ethical either.

[khunlungphudhu]

I don't know about the specifics you raise, however, I have one point that always occurs to me when thinking about celibacy.

Surely being celibate 'increases' your sexual cravings?

Celibacy, as with sexual prowess, gets easier with practice.

As with most things, practice makes perfect.

[nokia]

thanks folks, FWBO was placed under Buddhist Cult Advisory Service for having such controversial teachings.

i believe Celibacy is only for singles, and who intend to be monks for the rest of their life. Am i correct?

It would be difficult for a normal person to be celibate without going through monkhood, with so much temptations on the outside world....

I dont think there any TV members who are celibate but are not monks.

[N&M]

I read somewhere about a 'tantric' method. Where you can basically make an orgasm last forever. So if you could do this, all you would need is the first sexual encounter and then you could be celibate for a long time while still enjoying orgasm.

Having your cake and eating also kind of.

[Wes Turner]

I don't know about the specifics you raise, however, I have one point that always occurs to me when thinking about celibacy.

Surely being celibate 'increases' your sexual cravings?

Celibacy, as with sexual prowess, gets easier with practice.

As with most things, practice makes perfect.

anyone who has to practice celebacy is there is something wrong with them, i'm serious. Its nature, why hold it back???? if you did that with goiing to the toilet you would die of internal poisoning.

[khunlungphudhu]

The cries of disbelief from the young!

Wisdom does come from age!

I have been celebate now for five or more years. My age helped, though I am not too old to change, but being surounded by eighty year old wrinklies makes life so much easier, LOL!

And I still believe I am more likely to die from tobacco addiction than 'internal poisoning'.

Being celebate, through choice, I have found my life to be so very much easier I doubt that I will go back to being 'active' again.

So few problems it's unbelievable.

[robitusson]

I don't know about the specifics you raise, however, I have one point that always occurs to me when thinking about celibacy.

Surely being celibate 'increases' your sexual cravings?

Celibacy, as with sexual prowess, gets easier with practice.

As with most things, practice makes perfect.

anyone who has to practice celebacy is there is something wrong with them, i'm serious. Its nature, why hold it back???? if you did that with goiing to the toilet you would die of internal poisoning.

Ever tried it? Celibacy I mean, not stopping the toilet.

[Suthep_Steve]

In defence of the FWBO.

I lived for a number of years in Birmingham, UK which is or was then a large centre of FWBO activity. Sangharachita lived there (and may still) while I was there as did a large percentage of the "Inner circle" members of the FWBO. I never had the chance to see Sangharachita but I did meet one of his closest disciples who was as it happens is a fully ordained Buddhist monk with vows of chastity etc.

I was most impressed by him and on the rare occasions I visited there main centre in Moseley Birmingham I was always impressed by the spirituality and sincerity of the people involved. The FWBO is by no means main stream but I believe they have a sincere aproach and I would not try and stop anyone from going to one of there meetings. Buddhism is new in the West and Buddhism has always adapted to any new country that it has entered.

There have been reports of sexual improtiety amoung order members and about Sangharachita. I believe that the FWBO has put it's house in order over these. These reverlations largely came from the Guardian newspaper in the UK. Coming from a female reporter who is a devout Catholic and took it on herself to have a pot shot at a number of Buddhist groups in the UK at the time. The organisation which I follow most closely was also attacked.

If you are looking for dirt you can always find it especially when you google for it. Devadata saw faults in the Lord Buddha and tried to convince others of his point of view. If you are interested in the FWBO I adivice you to approach it with an open mind and give yourself a year or two to talk with them, practise with them and study along there lines before coming to any kind of commitment but that would be my advice for any worthy relgious organisation.

[sleepyjohn]

The Guardian Article was quite some years ago.

Since then, perhaps three years ago, an order member exposed Sangharakshita and a coterie around him as, previously at least, predatory homosexuals who abused their position. By this time Sangharakshita was quite sick, and had handed over the reins to others.

I have spoken to the most senior order members of the FWBO, who I believe are not of the same ilk, and they have accepted this as fact, and made considerable efforts to carefully deal with the problem.

They have led question and answer sessions among order members and mitras at the local centres.

The senior member I knew best said they intended to talk to S. about the facts as learned, but they were waiting for an improvement in his health.

I believe the guys running things there now really are very good.

I was involved with the FWBO for some years and on the ordination list. I eventually withdrew, and studied further alone and with monk friends, and taught meditation myself.

I believe the FWBO has a lot of good aspects....excellent meditation teaching, a structure allowing multi level study, an accessible open door.

The downside? I found Sangharakshita has a good grasp of the dharma but is unnecessarily long winded in his bookwriting. I disliked the way he was "over-revered", typical of a lot of religious groups(I might say I don't think he tried for that). Also like many religious groups things tended to become a bit dogmatic.

All in all quite a few good people, but not for me.

Edited February 14, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[nokia]

The cries of disbelief from the young!

Wisdom does come from age!

I have been celebate now for five or more years. My age helped, though I am not too old to change, but being surounded by eighty year old wrinklies makes life so much easier, LOL!

And I still believe I am more likely to die from tobacco addiction than 'internal poisoning'.

Being celebate, through choice, I have found my life to be so very much easier I doubt that I will go back to being 'active' again.

So few problems it's unbelievable.

Sir, would you have consider celibacy when you were half your age?

It would be a challenge to quit at the prime of life.

[chownah]

Celibacy is not a health risk as far as I know and if someone has a reference for some information that indicates that it is then I would really appreciate knowing. As for the difficulty of giving up sexual activity....the more difficult it would be for you to give it up is a good measure of how attached you are to it. The Buddha taught that suffering comes from desire and to end suffering you must stop desire before it arises. This teaching is about all desires, not just sexual desire. Indulging in sex and justifying this by saying that it is healty or normal is fine...but it is unlikely that this will help to bring an end to suffering. If you want to find out more about this on a personal level, then you might try being mindful of what is happening during sex....and by this I don't mean to just stay awake...I mean to be actively mindful....I'll bet that you can't do it from start to finish.

[camerata]

i believe Celibacy is only for singles, and who intend to be monks for the rest of their life. Am i correct?

It would be difficult for a normal person to be celibate without going through monkhood, with so much temptations on the outside world....

It depends what you mean by "normal." Anyone who wants to be celibate could not be described as normal anyway. You'd have to have very strong reasons for choosing to be celibate.

As far as I remember, before I came to Thailand (i.e. in my teens and early 20s) I was often celibate for periods of up to a year - not through choice, but more a lack of opportunity since I worked shifts and didn't have much social life. If I hadn't been looking for a relationship, if I had been an ultra-serious Buddhist, I don't think celibacy would have been a problem. It is, after all, just avoiding sexual intercourse and it isn't one of the 5 Precepts. Plus it has the advantage of keeping you out of relationships, that are usually a hassle one way or another.

For males, ego is a major factor in wanting to have sex, and especially in having multiple or casual partners. I think you can go a long way in Buddhist practice by eliminating the ego component and, if you want to share you life or have children, sticking to a faithful monogamous relationship. That way you can avoid hurting yourself or your partners.

Giving up all sexual activity, as with the 8 Precepts, is another matter entirely. Personally, I wonder how much this really advances one towards nibbana.

[nokia]

Folks, does celibacy include abstinence from self stimulation?

[khunlungphudhu]

The cries of disbelief from the young!

Wisdom does come from age!

I have been celebate now for five or more years. My age helped, though I am not too old to change, but being surounded by eighty year old wrinklies makes life so much easier, LOL!

And I still believe I am more likely to die from tobacco addiction than 'internal poisoning'.

Being celebate, through choice, I have found my life to be so very much easier I doubt that I will go back to being 'active' again.

So few problems it's unbelievable.

Sir, would you have consider celibacy when you were half your age?

It would be a challenge to quit at the prime of life.

No, I was then too attached to the prosect of leaving an heir!

And please do not think I am knocking the young, I loved every moment of being so.

[robitusson]

Folks, does celibacy include abstinence from self stimulation?

Of course. Celibacy removes the self-seeking involved in sex, it doesn't matter if you're alone or having sex with a partner, youre seeking ego-gratification, whether it be positive or negative, either way.

[camerata]

To clarify a little, the word celibacy means only "abstinence from sexual intercourse." For some reason, in Buddhism it is generally used to mean "abstinence from any sexual activity." The original meaning of the word celibate was "unmarried."

Edited February 15, 2006 by camerata

[chownah]

I googled for the definition of "celibate" and got everything from being unmarried to abstaining from any sexual activity whatever....and several things inbetween. In one definition it mentioned the multiplicity of definitions and advised against using the word unless the context was clear so that the meaning would be understood.

[suegha]

What's wrong with self satisfaction? Surely if you didn't, it would come out anyway??? Ahem! In it's own time...

[nokia]

From the doc's point of view, it's a healthy way of release for men & women, and you wont catch HIV/VD from doing it. So there's nothing wrong with it.

Nearly everybody does it and it's silly to make people feel guilty about it. SO it's difficult to agree with the R.catholic view which considers it a grave sin, and a seriously disordered act.

But anything that stems from excessive desire is bad, and will cause suffering from buddhist view.

Firstly, who's gonna judge? (I dont think any chief abbot is coming to your house to do that)

Secondly, where's the suffering apart from the pleasure?

Would any senior pursuing nirvana like to expound on it from the Law of Cause & Effect,The Four Noble Truths(cause & end of suffering), or Eightfold path(particularly Right Thought)?

P.s. I'm sure many here are parents or even grandparents, how did you advise your sonnie about wanking? Do it in the privacy of bedroom/bathroom but not in the living room?

[sabaijai]

I don't think there's a single answer for this question from the standpoint of lay Buddhists at least. On the level of kamma, it would all come down to the intention behind the act. Kusala or akusala?

For monks the act is a violation of one of the 227 monastic recepts and requires that the monk declare the violation to the Sangha.

[nokia]

I don't think there's a single answer for this question from the standpoint of lay Buddhists at least. On the level of kamma, it would all come down to the intention behind the act. Kusala or akusala?

For monks the act is a violation of one of the 227 monastic recepts and requires that the monk declare the violation to the Sangha.

It's interesting to know that it's a monastic violation and have to be declared/confessed to the abbots or fellow monks? So the monks have to overcome it during their monkhood or keep on declaring...

The 227 monastic precepts can probably be summarised by the Eightfold Path to quench desires & overcome suffering.

Although the act may be deemed as skilful, intelligent,happy or healthy, the lustful thoughts generated during the act cannot be a cause for Mental Purity(Right Thought).While we all want to be healthy(aarogya) & (sukha-vipaaka), there are certain elements of Bondage in it. Anti-(anavajja) & anti-(niddaratha)

Since an ordained monk who follow the 227 precepts is Closer to nirvana than any lay buddhists, wouldnt someone prefer to be a monk at an older age of 70-80s, rather than earlier, when his desires start to wane, physical strength lessened and when Vanaprastha ashrama should make way for sannyasa ashrama?

---Glossary of terms for newbie like me---

Sangha is a sanscrit word meaning "spiritual community".

Literally, kusala can be differently rendered as skilful, intelligent, expert; good, right, virtuous, meritorious, beneficial; lucky, happy, healthy and prosperous, as the context demands.

Akusala can, therefore, be translated into English as the opposite qualities from kusala such as unskillful, bad and so on.Like the concept of dhamma, no single English word can convey or render exactly what kusala denotes.

Kusala is a cause for moral action and mental purity whereas akusala for evil conduct and mental impurity. Akusala is described as a source of the arising of karma (kammaana"m samudayaaya) while kusala of its destruction (kammaana"m nirodha).Buddhaghosa in his commentaries further gave a fivefold connotation of kusala, namely, (i) free of illness or health (aarogya), (ii) unstained, clean and clear (anavajja), (iii) based on wisdom or intelligence (kosala-sambhuuta), (iv) freedom from bondage (niddaratha), and (v) conductive happiness or well-being (sukha-vipaaka).

Desires are present in all stages of life: brahmacharya ashrama, grihastha ashrama, vanaprastha ashrama, but the objects of desire change according to one's age. In childhood one desires toys, games and sports. In youth one desires wealth, women and progeny. In the later stages of life one does not continue with the same desires. Grihastha ashrama, householder life, is followed by vanaprastha ashrama, retirement. Retirement and old age succeed youth and middle age, so the objects of desire must change accordingly.

Vanaprastha ashrama should make way for sannyasa ashrama. Sannyasa is necessary because it provides an opportunity to give your desires a new direction. It is a turning point. I do not claim to be free of desire, but I have given a new turn to my desires. During youth and middle age you lead a life of bhoga, pleasure, but when old age comes the desires never wane; they still play havoc. Therefore, at that time the shastras suggest you turn towards sannyasa life. Either you shave your head and enter an ashram or open a hospital and involve yourself in a life of service. Once your mind is engrossed in the work of the hospital, the desires will change their direction and form.

[camerata]

It's interesting to know that it's a monastic violation and have to be declared/confessed to the abbots or fellow monks? So the monks have to overcome it during their monkhood or keep on declaring...

Worse that that! Normally, the most junior monk will be the last in the line on alms round. But any monk who confesses to masturbation will be put at the back of the line and it will be obvious to everyone. See Phra Farang.

Since an ordained monk who follow the 227 precepts is Closer to nirvana than any lay buddhists, wouldnt someone prefer to be a monk at an older age of 70-80s, rather than earlier, when his desires start to wane

I don't think it is necessarily true that a monk is nearer nibbana than a lay person. It really depends on the monastery and whether the monk is following the precepts skillfully or just observing them because he has to. According to Ajahn Chah, it takes about 5 years of monastic life (and this is the strict monastic life of the Thai Forest Tradition) to get any significant and lasting benefit. The author of Venerable Father (a monk at Ajahn Chah's monastery) found this to be true. Presumably, if one is serious about nibbana and able to choose the right monastery, monastic life is the way to go.

Another thing Ajahn Chah said was that if we've lived for 20 years, it's likely to take another 20 years of practice to undo the mental conditioning we've acquired. So it's obviously an advantage to start serious practice and become a monk as early as possible.

Having said that, I think there is still a lot that can be done as a lay Buddhist. From the perspective of the Forest Tradition (and perhaps Theravada in general), it's suffering that teaches us about Dhamma, and as we all know there is plenty of suffering in lay life. So there are plenty of opportunities for lay people to advance along the path. Rather than avoiding suffering we should be learning to use it skillfully.

Henepola Gunaratana said we should try celibacy when we are still young because when we are older it will be too easy and the experience won't teach us anything. I'm not sure if he was talking about monastics or about people in general, but I would think that celibacy in one's youth would make it incredibly difficult to meditate.

[matthew78]

Camerata wrote:

I would think that celibacy in one's youth would make it incredibly difficult to meditate.

As it happens...I found it hard (in my mid-20s) to control my sexual urges while staying at Bhante G's center in West Virginia for just ten days. That is to say, to "confess", that on the 8th day I satisfied the urge alone in my kuti. There. Back of the line!!!!

It's now three years later and the sexual urges have only gotten more intense, and I'm in Bangkok....In theory I'd like to live a much more mindful, cool, calm and collected lifestyle and pursue 'dhammic goals' but the hormonal explosions I keep experiencing are making it quite difficult.

[Sheryl]

My meditation teacher (very much based in the Theravada tradition) advises against "forced"celibacy saying that it is apt to produce mental tensions that are conterproductive but insists on avaoidance of sexual misconduct (i.e. no sex with another person outside of a committed relationship) and says that if that and the other precepts are observed carefully along with regular serious meditation practice and cultuvation of the paramittas (compassion etc) one will eventually arrive at a state of natural celibacy.

This has proven true in my experience & also many others I know. It certainly strikes me as a better approach than trying to prematurely enforce celibacy.

I've been "celibate" since the age of 40 (I'm now 53) although I tended not to think of it that way in the beginning because to me, saying one is celibate implies having made a determination never to have sex, and that's not how it happened. I made a determination not to have sex outside of a serious comitted relationship. None materialized, years past and the time came when I realized that I didn't want one to materialize as I was so content as is. But as I said before, this was a natural evolution for me and I was ready for it. It helps that I came of age in the 60's-70's and so had left little undone in the sexual realm and, like a lot of my contemporaries, had wasted a lot of time and generated a far amount of misery trying to achieve "liberation"via sex. This wealth of experience made it a lot easier to give up sex. In the beginning, when I did have occasional temotations, I would just review my own past experience and based on that project the likely long term results of acting on my present impulse...being sure to take the fantasy past the sex stage to the awkwardness afterwards etc etc. And also to reflect on all the dhukka aspects of sex (easier for women to do than men...just recollecting an lIUD insertion is enough to diffuse any sense of desire!). But these sort of things I needed to do only rarely and not at all in the past say 5 years or so.

An unexpected benefit has been a lot of insight gained into my past sexual behavior and the whole sex dynamic, which I could not have seen while still caught up in it.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Sheryl