Poll On Land Ownership Route

[Little Mouse!]

Hi all,

Does a Thai wife lose her ownerships once she married a foreigner and uses his last name?

Or is it better to keep her own family name when she is in Thailand?

[Dragonman]

Hi all,

Does a Thai wife lose her ownerships once she married a foreigner and uses his last name?

Or is it better to keep her own family name when she is in Thailand?

Since 1999 a thai lady married to a foreigner can own as much land as she wants as long as both parties sign at the Land Office to say the property is ONLY the wife's. In fact it has never been the law that a thai lost ownership of land purchased before marriage!

It makes no difference keeping her family name, as if she didn't declare she had a foreign husband she would be committing an offence under Land Laws.

[Little Mouse!]

Hi all,

Does a Thai wife lose her ownerships once she married a foreigner and uses his last name?

Or is it better to keep her own family name when she is in Thailand?

Since 1999 a thai lady married to a foreigner can own as much land as she wants as long as both parties sign at the Land Office to say the property is ONLY the wife's. In fact it has never been the law that a thai lost ownership of land purchased before marriage!

It makes no difference keeping her family name, as if she didn't declare she had a foreign husband she would be committing an offence under Land Laws.

Thanks Dragonman.

What if she declared that she had a foreign husband and changed her family name to his, will that affect her ownerships?

Also, can he own anything in Thailand?

[Dragonman]

Hi all,

Does a Thai wife lose her ownerships once she married a foreigner and uses his last name?

Or is it better to keep her own family name when she is in Thailand?

Since 1999 a thai lady married to a foreigner can own as much land as she wants as long as both parties sign at the Land Office to say the property is ONLY the wife's. In fact it has never been the law that a thai lost ownership of land purchased before marriage!

It makes no difference keeping her family name, as if she didn't declare she had a foreign husband she would be committing an offence under Land Laws.

Thanks Dragonman.

What if she declared that she had a foreign husband and changed her family name to his, will that affect her ownerships?

Also, can he own anything in Thailand?

No, under the New Constitution a thai lady married to a foreigner must have equal rights irrespective of name. No effect on any ownerships!

Foreigners can only own Condos directly, unless you've got 600,000 quid in the bank Of course there are Company purchases, etc. which you will find plenty of threads on.

[Little Mouse!]

Hi all,

Does a Thai wife lose her ownerships once she married a foreigner and uses his last name?

Or is it better to keep her own family name when she is in Thailand?

Since 1999 a thai lady married to a foreigner can own as much land as she wants as long as both parties sign at the Land Office to say the property is ONLY the wife's. In fact it has never been the law that a thai lost ownership of land purchased before marriage!

It makes no difference keeping her family name, as if she didn't declare she had a foreign husband she would be committing an offence under Land Laws.

Thanks Dragonman.

What if she declared that she had a foreign husband and changed her family name to his, will that affect her ownerships?

Also, can he own anything in Thailand?

No, under the New Constitution a thai lady married to a foreigner must have equal rights irrespective of name. No effect on any ownerships!

Foreigners can only own Condos directly, unless you've got 600,000 quid in the bank Of course there are Company purchases, etc. which you will find plenty of threads on.

Okidoki, thanks again Dragonman

[JimmyGreaves]

Thanks all for the insight on this topic, very interesting numbers.

I have just gone the Small Trading Company over 40% route, will let you know how it progresses.

[think_too_mut]

I paid 500K baht for the land and a house with no intention of owning or doing anything with it.

My "Isaan palace'.

If you can't afford that much to lose, reconsider your targets.

Building on that, it's a place wife and her family enjoy, my baby too...but not me.

Ownership of that? Cmon, it's all peanuts. Let them live in something better than a corrugated iron shed.

[sramkok-pratum]

Through thai relation, we bought our land and build the house ( no financing involved) for our life security. In case we can't afford house payment in US.And i don't want to end up like my parents in law , they bought their brand new house in 1986, 5 bedroom but only 2 bath (wierd)2900sqf. all four kids help out with $6-700 each specially the oldest dauther and second dauther with her husband live there .now she 43 single with 2 jobs all her life , she take care for everythings. my husband (youngest son) and his brother ,we moved out from that house almost 12-13 years ago to buy our own place but we always help out them. we bought our home build in 1951 3 bed 2 bath, we add one bed and bath (no permit) and rent all 3 bedroom for students. In 1994 my parents in law refinace cash out to remodel the house from northridge earthquake' results. so they back into 30 years mortgage again. Last year second dauther got a baby and they want swimmng pool for all the kids. they cashed out equity for build it. I can't believe some people will do that if they still can't afford their own payment. We didn't know at that time that they building the pool. If they still keep refi and cash out they will never pay off their house. And i have to go through that rent the room out just for cover our expense.while they enjoy cashing out. After my husband found out about swimming pool he agrees with me to buy land and build house ( even it will be small and far from city ) in thailand for our retirement or safe nest. And i think it's so stupid having swimming pool that have to heat it up everytime for 8-10hours before and play for 2-3 hours specially you r not that rich. Sorry off topic , i just want to release my stress out

[Carmine6]

Wow, good move on your part to have a plan. Sounds like your in-laws will lose their home eventually since they can't afford the mortgage without help. Really, you may want to stop helping them out at all so that they figure out they need to sell and move to a more reasonable place. If you're having to rent your house out and they still want help to live their lifestyle, I say it's time for some tough love. Now would be the time since there would likely be a good profit and they can trade down in Northridge very easily.

Through thai relation, we bought our land and build the house ( no financing involved) for our life security. In case we can't afford house payment in US.And i don't want to end up like my parents in law , they bought their brand new house in 1986, 5 bedroom but only 2 bath (wierd)2900sqf. all four kids help out with $6-700 each specially the oldest dauther and second dauther with her husband live there .now she 43 single with 2 jobs all her life , she take care for everythings. my husband (youngest son) and his brother ,we moved out from that house almost 12-13 years ago to buy our own place but we always help out them. we bought our home build in 1951 3 bed 2 bath, we add one bed and bath (no permit) and rent all 3 bedroom for students. In 1994 my parents in law refinace cash out to remodel the house from northridge earthquake' results. so they back into 30 years mortgage again. Last year second dauther got a baby and they want swimmng pool for all the kids. they cashed out equity for build it. I can't believe some people will do that if they still can't afford their own payment. We didn't know at that time that they building the pool. If they still keep refi and cash out they will never pay off their house. And i have to go through that rent the room out just for cover our expense.while they enjoy cashing out. After my husband found out about swimming pool he agrees with me to buy land and build house ( even it will be small and far from city ) in thailand for our retirement or safe nest. And i think it's so stupid having swimming pool that have to heat it up everytime for 8-10hours before and play for 2-3 hours specially you r not that rich. Sorry off topic , i just want to release my stress out

[JimmyGreaves]

Any more members want to add to this poll as it was started before the government reviews?

Edited January 17, 2007 by jflundy

[chuck6660]

Any more members want to add to this poll as it was started before the government reviews?

The wife and I have bought 4 rai of land in Isaan and a house in BKK (bht 1.2.mil), all in my wifes name. Like many respondants, if all goes to shit...she can keep it, less headaches for me and I can afford it!!

[buriramboy]

got 36 rai outside buriram (although only chanote for 20 rai, supposed to be getting other chanote this year!!!!!!!!) for growing rubber trees and in daughters (only 3 1/2)name, benefit of this no money can be borrowed on it and the land can not be sold till my daughter is 20, then up to her. Obviously i keep the chanote here with me in Pattaya.

BB

[dsfbrit]

House and just under 1 Rai of land in Pattaya in majority farang shareholder company.

Set this up 3 years ogo, I guess its 'worth' about 5-6 million Baht - not that want to sell it even if I could.

I will switch this to 30 year lease (land) with my Thai wife if/when I have to.

I will keep house in my name.

I would have gone the lease route in the first place, but I figured if we get divorced - lest face it 30 years is a long time - I would have more problems with a lease.

However, with the chaos in the new legislation - it seems like it may be some time yet before I have to do anything regarding the 'illegal' company, so will just sit tight for now.

Interesting poll by the way

[thaigene2]

Really interesting poll. The Scotsman's posts are worth pinning (IMHO).

[x846nua]

Interesting poll i know a english man who died in thailand having lived there for over 15 years when he died he was surrounded by a thai family who were heartbroken although now a few years later have come to terms with his death and look qite happy from the outside.The wife of the englishman told me a month or two back all the successful family buisness the house the car was in her name right the way through there 20 year marrige and she regularly has members of his family over which i have had confirmed by them that she pays for.He originally set up the buisnesses and the house from his own money.Paronia as regards thai wifes can kill the marriage before it starts but then again a fool and his money is easily parted my wife owns a property in thailand 4 millon baht nowt to do with me and our child has inheritance rights .

[JimmyGreaves]

Nice to see trust is still flourishing!

[camel_jockey]

Hello,

My wife(Thai) and I(Aussie) have a 18 month old son, can we buy land in his name?

That way if everything turned brown he would end up with said land, yes or no?

Cheers

[Geppis72]

House and just under 1 Rai of land in Pattaya in majority farang shareholder company.

Set this up 3 years ogo, I guess its 'worth' about 5-6 million Baht - not that want to sell it even if I could.

I will switch this to 30 year lease (land) with my Thai wife if/when I have to.

I will keep house in my name.

I would have gone the lease route in the first place, but I figured if we get divorced - lest face it 30 years is a long time - I would have more problems with a lease.

However, with the chaos in the new legislation - it seems like it may be some time yet before I have to do anything regarding the 'illegal' company, so will just sit tight for now.

Interesting poll by the way

I think lots of us IF and WHEN will be necessary will switch to leasehold.

In the worst case we will have bit of time to do it and arrange it.

But in my case more difficult because we (me and my wife) are both foreign.

Still hope for something good come up (freehold) under 1 rai, or something restored in term of

investment quota or....I will give land to somebody and rent land from him with penalties in contract who

can protect me and avoid to kick my h..s

[Arkady]

Hello,

My wife(Thai) and I(Aussie) have a 18 month old son, can we buy land in his name?

That way if everything turned brown he would end up with said land, yes or no?

Cheers

Yes, but you cannot build anything on it, as a minor cannot apply for a building licence. You can buy in your wife's name and transfer to your son later, if your wife agrees and you don't mind two lots of transfer fees.

BTW most of the leasing and mortgage structures described in earlier posts seem unsafe to me. If you lease from your wife, a Thai court can judge that you had undue influence in persuading her to enter into the agreement and void it. If you lease from a company set up with nominees for the purpose of getting around the Land Code, the lease can be voided and the company dissolved. Then the foreign shareholders own the property jointly with the Thai shareholders but cannot register their interest with Land Department and have to sell their stake within a year. The Thai shareholders can sit it out in thie situation give you nothing or just a token for your interest. The mortgage structure could be used as evidence that a girlfriend has acted as a nominee in purchasing land. In the case of a mortgage to a wife, it contradicts the foreign spouse's declaration to the Land Office that his wife is buying the land with her own money and he has no claim on it.

[qualtrough]

We are a trusting lot, aren't we.

I am surprised how many have put the property in a Thai name.

I remember the story in late 80's of a foreigner who bought a house and

placed it in his wife's name.

A few short months later he was found dead, at the bottom is a well.

Mother-in-law had had him murdered!!

It was reported in the Bangkok Post at the time.

Shezaam! Shiat like that never happens back home!

At any rate, our land is in my wife's name because it was gifted to us by her parents. We have two kids, and had wills made up with Tilleke and Gibbin in the event we die before they do. 12 years now and the wife hasn't killed me yet, but there's time...

[khunandy]

I have bought property in my wife's name. That was done for several different reasons. The first is that losing it wouldn't affect my life style financially. The second is that if our marriage would turn to sh!t I would have no interest in the land anyways. The third is that paying an accountant to pay taxes to the government for a company that is bogus does NOT appeal to me at all.

I do own a condo freehold in my name. The condo is worth more than the land. My vehicle is also in my name. My thoughts are NOT to spend more than I can afford to lose.

same same

[Arkady]

House and just under 1 Rai of land in Pattaya in majority farang shareholder company.

Set this up 3 years ogo, I guess its 'worth' about 5-6 million Baht - not that want to sell it even if I could.

I will switch this to 30 year lease (land) with my Thai wife if/when I have to.

I will keep house in my name.

I would have gone the lease route in the first place, but I figured if we get divorced - lest face it 30 years is a long time - I would have more problems with a lease.

However, with the chaos in the new legislation - it seems like it may be some time yet before I have to do anything regarding the 'illegal' company, so will just sit tight for now.

Interesting poll by the way

I think lots of us IF and WHEN will be necessary will switch to leasehold.

In the worst case we will have bit of time to do it and arrange it.

But in my case more difficult because we (me and my wife) are both foreign.

Still hope for something good come up (freehold) under 1 rai, or something restored in term of

investment quota or....I will give land to somebody and rent land from him with penalties in contract who

can protect me and avoid to kick my h..s

Perhaps you can adopt a Thai child and transfer to them. Don't think anything very good is going to come up for this type of situation. Best to hope for is that they backtrack on Annex 3 of the FBA which might give less reason for the MoC to investigate the companies, most of which fall under the Annex 3 category of "all other services not mentioned elsewhere in the act", if you ignore their dealing in land which puts them in Annex 1. Nothing good will happen re land ownership. This problem started last March with the Interior Ministry's letter. Guidelines re enforcement may still be clarified. There is no talk of a grace period to restructure land ownership and it seems unlikely. The grace periods are only for Annex 1 and Annex 2 businesses not involving land. Watch out for the 90 day amnesty for Thai nominees effective from the date the new law will be published in the Royal Gazette. They will be encouraged to shop you to avoid prosecution and to grab their 51% or more share of your property.

[Kimera]

I have bought property in my wife's name. That was done for several different reasons. The first is that losing it wouldn't affect my life style financially. The second is that if our marriage would turn to sh!t I would have no interest in the land anyways. The third is that paying an accountant to pay taxes to the government for a company that is bogus does NOT appeal to me at all.

I do own a condo freehold in my name. The condo is worth more than the land. My vehicle is also in my name. My thoughts are NOT to spend more than I can afford to lose.

same same

Thats the secret if you cant afford to LOSE it then dont buy it, I purchased a property in the thai partners name with a separate 'legal' document that it was my money she was a tennant and willing it to her on my death and to our daughter on hers !!! good eh NOT worth anything. But really what does it matter my daughter will benefit whatever happens

[Arkady]

I have bought property in my wife's name. That was done for several different reasons. The first is that losing it wouldn't affect my life style financially. The second is that if our marriage would turn to sh!t I would have no interest in the land anyways. The third is that paying an accountant to pay taxes to the government for a company that is bogus does NOT appeal to me at all.

I do own a condo freehold in my name. The condo is worth more than the land. My vehicle is also in my name. My thoughts are NOT to spend more than I can afford to lose.

same same

Thats the secret if you cant afford to LOSE it then dont buy it, I purchased a property in the thai partners name with a separate 'legal' document that it was my money she was a tennant and willing it to her on my death and to our daughter on hers !!! good eh NOT worth anything. But really what does it matter my daughter will benefit whatever happens

Yes, your document is worse than useless. It is prima facie evidence that both of you have broken the law. It would be better for your partner to write a separate will which, if necessary, can be executed without drawing attention to the illegal aspects of the original transaction. Wills in Thailand can be registered with the ampur while the legatee is still alive, as in some European countries like Spain, but not the UK. Other types of will are also executable but a registered will would be extremely hard to contest.

[Arkady]

Sorry. Legatee above should read legator (person making the will).

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have bought property in my wife's name. That was done for several different reasons. The first is that losing it wouldn't affect my life style financially. The second is that if our marriage would turn to sh!t I would have no interest in the land anyways. The third is that paying an accountant to pay taxes to the government for a company that is bogus does NOT appeal to me at all.

I do own a condo freehold in my name. The condo is worth more than the land. My vehicle is also in my name. My thoughts are NOT to spend more than I can afford to lose.

same same

Thats the secret if you cant afford to LOSE it then dont buy it, I purchased a property in the thai partners name with a separate 'legal' document that it was my money she was a tennant and willing it to her on my death and to our daughter on hers !!! good eh NOT worth anything. But really what does it matter my daughter will benefit whatever happens

It might be time to revisit the lawyer ( if there was one ), and establish exactly what you signed. I think that the ultimate outcomes are more than likely to be a lot different than those that you envision.

[cloudhopper]

Thai wife bought the land then I leased it from her for 30+30 yrs. The lease specifically states that I own the house and everything else subsequently built on it. (So in case she dies before I do whoever inherits the land from her as stated in her will must abide by the lease as well). The lease was drawn up by a Thai lawyer, but like every contract ever written there's always a f#*ing lawyer and court ready to overturn it any time, so until we take Shakespeare's advice and kill all the lawyers first that's just the way it's going to be, because they rule the world, whether you like it or not!

[chanchao]

> No, under the New Constitution a

What new constitution, by the way? Constitutions on Thailand only last as long as inter-coup interbelli... Will any new constituyion say the same? Only answer to that: "Maybe."

So with "Maybe" being so common in Thai legal matters longer term, I'd say that *ANY* construction depends heavily on 'trust'.

And frankly I'd rather take my chances trusting my wife than any government.

(Note that there's still SOME issues relating to problems for Thais married to foreigners: Apparently it's not possible to obtain government bank loans to finance land when a foreigner is involved somewhere, even when not legally married.)

[Arkady]

Thai wife bought the land then I leased it from her for 30+30 yrs. The lease specifically states that I own the house and everything else subsequently built on it. (So in case she dies before I do whoever inherits the land from her as stated in her will must abide by the lease as well). The lease was drawn up by a Thai lawyer, but like every contract ever written there's always a f#*ing lawyer and court ready to overturn it any time, so until we take Shakespeare's advice and kill all the lawyers first that's just the way it's going to be, because they rule the world, whether you like it or not!

Yes, it can be overturned but is better than nothing and the need for litigation might put an errant wife off from trying it. You don't own the house unless your ownership is registered with the Land Dept. I'm not sure if this is really possible unless you are building a new house that has not been registered. Otherwise it probably needs a separation of the house from the deed and the issue of two new deeds which would be costly. Anyway you are in a difficult situation owning a house on land which you no longer have a lease on i.e. you have no access to your property and the house becomes worthless. You can have her will the property to you as her statutory heir and register the will with the ampur. Technically you are allowed to own land in that situation with permission of the minister which has probably never been given but it allows you to choose who you want to transfer it too in the event of your wife predeceasing you. For those with Thai children, having her will the property to them is the best solution.

BTW what sort of costs including are involved in setting up the lease and registering it with the Land Dept?

[Paul MBMG]

Thai wife bought the land then I leased it from her for 30+30 yrs. The lease specifically states that I own the house and everything else subsequently built on it. (So in case she dies before I do whoever inherits the land from her as stated in her will must abide by the lease as well). The lease was drawn up by a Thai lawyer, but like every contract ever written there's always a f#*ing lawyer and court ready to overturn it any time, so until we take Shakespeare's advice and kill all the lawyers first that's just the way it's going to be, because they rule the world, whether you like it or not!

Yes, it can be overturned but is better than nothing and the need for litigation might put an errant wife off from trying it. You don't own the house unless your ownership is registered with the Land Dept. I'm not sure if this is really possible unless you are building a new house that has not been registered. Otherwise it probably needs a separation of the house from the deed and the issue of two new deeds which would be costly. Anyway you are in a difficult situation owning a house on land which you no longer have a lease on i.e. you have no access to your property and the house becomes worthless. You can have her will the property to you as her statutory heir and register the will with the ampur. Technically you are allowed to own land in that situation with permission of the minister which has probably never been given but it allows you to choose who you want to transfer it too in the event of your wife predeceasing you. For those with Thai children, having her will the property to them is the best solution.

BTW what sort of costs including are involved in setting up the lease and registering it with the Land Dept?

lease registration fee is 1% of rentals due under the term

any unregistered lease reverts to same status as a a 3 year lease

there are a great number of issues in spouses leasing to spouses (some of which have been touched upon) that make usufruct an alternative

in cloudhopper's case, if his wife doies during the first 30 years he has no automatic right to renewal at 30 years (nothing to do with overturning, tha's Thai Supreme Court Case law).

My property is owned via a minority farang company with suitable minority controls and proetctions; yes there's a cost and it depends on the value of the property as to whether or not this is worthwhile. I've seen a few problems with badly set-up companies (plenty of cheap lawyers on the street corners of Bangkok) that folks bring to us to fix (would have been easier and cheaper to come to us in the first place and set it up right) and I've seen dozens of problems with separations, bereavements and divorces. These are all real people's lives and too often the ending is far from happy. One thing that no-one 's mentioned; I have seen one situation where a Thai spouse agreed to sell the property and give the proceeds to the farang who had paid for it on the grounds that this was only fair. No-one has a crystal ball, but do the research and then choose the right thing for your situation.....