British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[AntMan1]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

A bottle of whiskey and 20 diazepam isn't recommended, but its unlikely to kill you.

[AntMan1]

.

Seems odd that two men should die at around about the same time in the same room. Very odd. But if you think about it, and if they were both drug and alcohol users who had both used drugs and alcohol together and had acquired the same tolerance level to the drugs and alcohol perhaps it is not that strange that they both checked out at the same time after a heavy session. A mix of alcohol and barbs along with methadone and some solvent abuse would have probably been sufficient for them to both die. One egging the other on etc.

They both had relatively responsible jobs and after googling the name of one it seems he is a photographer and IT/graphic design teacher with a degree.

Hardly seem likely candidates for being hard drug takers or alcoholics.

[maidu]

But then why WOULD anybody arrange this? If the bodies were on the floor, why not leave them there? What is the suggestion/alibi-factor with the upright positions?

Because you were involved in the drugs in some way, taking, procuring, preparing or just being there. When the two got taken ill, rather than call an ambulance, you put their unconscious bodies back on the chairs to sleep it off. Maybe you have done it before. Maybe there was other evidence that you wanted to remove before the authorities saw the scene. Maybe you wanted to clean up. Maybe you were in a complete panic and were not thinking straight.

Also, there is the possibility that the police, the untrained rescue boys, the security guard, the press put the bodies on the chairs. The police have messed up crime scenes before and have moved bodies around to give photographers a better photo in their opinion. Sitting neatly on the chairs like that is so unlikely and given the reliability of the sources here, I don't believe it.

I agree. More than a few times, a scene has been tampered with because few Thais know of the importance of leaving things as they are at such a scene. They instinctively grab a broom and rag and tidy the place up. Blood or puke on the floor? Oh goodness, can't have that. What would the neighbors think? We'd have ghosts for generations, the re-sale value of the house/apartment would plummet. Bodies on the floor? Oh no, too unsightly - we've got to position them in chairs.

[arlissmichaels]

First of all im not in Thai at the moment. So i have no first hand info. But what Templedog writes sounds like the truth. They were both abusers Richie a former heroin junkie that got Jonathan into all the abuse, I wrote it all earlier in this thread page 4 i think.

Which the majority cared to ignore and went on with there conspiracies and arguments.

Strange place this.

[sirchai]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

The dosage is making the drug.--

[F430murci]

My condolences to friends and family of these 2 men.

This was basically the way I lived 15 - 20 years ago. I even worked in Inlingua for 3 years. This could easily have been myself but I got clean.

I want to say that it is impossible for 2 men like this to overdose on Valium and alcohol - there MUST have been another ingredient in the cocktail.

Valium is not an antidepressant like a couple of poster said. Addict don't take valium to get high - usually used as a substitute when the drug of choice has run out. Alcoholics also use valium for withdrawal.

Like another poster said - I've known many to take very large quantities of valium with no ill effects.

Some just refuse to let things like reality get UN the way of their opinions. You are correct. Something like methadone would typically have to be combined with valium to make it lethal. I asked, but no one answered whether methadone is dispensed by clinics in Bkk for maintenance purposes.

Congratulations on the sobriety. That is awesome.

[F430murci]

Lol, irresponsible to speculate about OD absent mass spec or gas chromograhpy, especially if only substances known are diazepam and alcohol. Lol, some never admit to being wrong.

The LD50 would be a starting point for any medical pathologist or medical doctor, unless perhaps the the intent is to simply classify as an OD without basing diagnosis on any documented proof or medical standard of care.

The guys would very likely be on the other side of the LD50 dose if they are not neophytes in ingesting alcohol or benzos. Let's not let that scientific stuff get in the way though when we can can speculate not only what they drank and took, but how much they ingested.

lol, lol, lol....what exactly am i wrong about?

"let's not get that scientific stuff get in the way"! is speculation on your behalf on the dosage they possibly took and whether they were mixing with a lot of booze or not.

i usually stay out of these type of threads, but suggesting diazepam may have been a factor since it was found in the room, is not exactly tinfoil hat material.

anyway, i don't enjoy people acting in a condescending manner, so carry on.

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

i suggested the possibility of them od'ing on diazepam and boooze, WOW! if that's too far beyond your imagination then so be it, i won't waste anymore time trying to convinvce you that it is a possible reason.

Ciao.

Exactly, and everyone that knows anything at all about Valium will say no way. Forget reading black box warning stuff on PIP or out of PDR.

Not about being beyond my imagination. I merely suggested that you look up LD50 of Diazepam before spreading speculation that Diazepam and alcohol caused the death.

The LD50 for naive users would require each to ingest about 720mgs so rather than one empty blister pack, there should be at least 14 empty blister packs if 10mg or 28 emptiy blister packs if 5mg. Not one!

Alcohol does enhance binding infinity to GABA receptor. Let's attribute 33 percent which is too high, but easy to calculate. That means each would have had to ingest 5 blister packs of 10mg and 10 blister packs of 5mgs.

Truth is, you would realize these numbers are actually very low if you understood LD50.

This demonstrates everything that is wrong with Thai investigation methodology. Civilized countries generally begin investigation like this assuming crime and work backwards to rule out crime.

The Thai police just charge in there, contaminate the crime scene, find a blister pack if Vs and say OD. This is pretty much what you did, but they are supposed to be professionals.

Edited December 9, 2012 by F430murci

[Thai at Heart]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

A bottle of whiskey and 20 diazepam isn't recommended, but its unlikely to kill you.

I think a bit less than that can cause massive problems. it happens.

[amykat]

I did write a post yesterday, but it got deleted due to a quotation problem ...in this post I said, that methadone IS available in Thailand. The reports that they had some bottles (of liquid I believe it is assumed) from a drug rehab place, suggests to me that they had gotten a hold of methadone ...there is also another poster on here who wrote that he believed that as well.

I'm sure many people have no experience with methadone or even know what it is, so that might be why less people are speculating about it. But it is a quite common thing to OD on. I mentioned yesterday that Anna Nicole Smith, her OD, was attributed mostly to methadone and whatever else she mixed her cocktail with that day.

[F430murci]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

A bottle of whiskey and 20 diazepam isn't recommended, but its unlikely to kill you.

I think a bit less than that can cause massive problems. it happens.

Nope. It should also be understood that someone who had developed a tolerance to alcohol or any GABA binding substance can take huge doses of Valuim and appear completely normal. Huge does meaning greater than 100mgs.

I have personally seen alcoholics weaned off alcohol with BAC above .3. They are given huge doses of Valium as the alcohol exits their system to prohibit seizures secondary to DTs.

I very recently observed administration of 140 mgs of Valium to one individual being weaned down from a BAC above .3. He was at least still at .15 when he had taken 140 mgs of Valium during initial stabilization or induction period and probably ingested another round of 100 mgs 10 hours later to keep DTs at bay. Valium has a long half life so he had a fair amount in his system, but he was walking around and talking.

99% of what you hear is someone dying of alcohol poisoning which would have happened regardless as to whether Valium or some other substance was ingested.

Edited December 9, 2012 by F430murci

[F430murci]

I did write a post yesterday, but it got deleted due to a quotation problem ...in this post I said, that methadone IS available in Thailand. The reports that they had some bottles (of liquid I believe it is assumed) from a drug rehab place, suggests to me that they had gotten a hold of methadone ...there is also another poster on here who wrote that he believed that as well.

I'm sure many people have no experience with methadone or even know what it is, so that might be why less people are speculating about it. But it is a quite common thing to OD on. I mentioned yesterday that Anna Nicole Smith, her OD, was attributed mostly to methadone and whatever else she mixed her cocktail with that day.

Liquid methadone is generally consumed once a day at a clinic so it cannot be shared or sold. Does Bkk give take homes?

Methadone has an extremely long half-life. People take it and think a few hours later they are not really feeling it so they may take something else to enhance the effects. The methadone then begins to obtain peak plasma levels around hours 4 - 6 after ingestion and around the same time benzo or other substance reaches peak plasma levels. This can cause respiratory depression to those with high tolerances or who have taken too much.

Methadone is perhaps easiest opiate on which to OD due to slow onset leading people to ingest other substances to acheive a high before peak plasma levels of methadone are reached.

Edited December 9, 2012 by F430murci

[Thai at Heart]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

A bottle of whiskey and 20 diazepam isn't recommended, but its unlikely to kill you.

I think a bit less than that can cause massive problems. it happens.

Nope. It should also be understood that someone who had developed a tolerance to alcohol or any GABA binding substance can take huge doses of Valuim and appear completely normal. Huge does meaning greater than 100mgs.

I have personally seen alcoholics weaned off alcohol with BAC above .3. They are given huge doses of Valium as the alcohol exits their system to prohibit seizures secondary to DTs.

I very recently observed administration of 140 mgs of Valium to one individual being weaned down from a BAC above .3. He was at least still at .15 when he had taken 140 mgs of Valium during initial stabilization or induction period and probably ingested another round of 100 mgs 10 hours later to keep DTs at bay. Valium has a long half life so he had a fair amount in his system, but he was walking around and talking.

99% of what you hear is someone dying of alcohol poisoning which would have happened regardless as to whether Valium or some other substance was ingested.

as a question though, presumably when they are being weaned off the booze, surely they aren't taking this volume of Valium and still consuming alcohol are they?

[amykat]

Methadone is distributed both in liquid form and pill form. I don't know what form it is given in Thailand, could be both. Yes, usually, one would visit a methadone maitenance clinic once a day to get your dose. But maybe (likely) there are very few of these clinics in Thailand, unlike other large first world cities/countries ...so maybe they give you take-away product, or MAYBE, being Thailand, things outside the norm, can be BOUGHT rather easily.

I said this before in this thread, but will say it again, methadone also is well known to cause stomach upset, nausea and vomiting. I would be willing to guess, that if you hadn't taken it for a while (as in you just take this recreationally, based on availability, you are more likey to feel nauseated from it.) So the report that maybe one? of them vomited, while passed out in their chair, would still indicate use of methadone.

Edited December 9, 2012 by amykat

[F430murci]

A bottle of whiskey and 20 diazepam isn't recommended, but its unlikely to kill you.

I think a bit less than that can cause massive problems. it happens.

Nope. It should also be understood that someone who had developed a tolerance to alcohol or any GABA binding substance can take huge doses of Valuim and appear completely normal. Huge does meaning greater than 100mgs.

I have personally seen alcoholics weaned off alcohol with BAC above .3. They are given huge doses of Valium as the alcohol exits their system to prohibit seizures secondary to DTs.

I very recently observed administration of 140 mgs of Valium to one individual being weaned down from a BAC above .3. He was at least still at .15 when he had taken 140 mgs of Valium during initial stabilization or induction period and probably ingested another round of 100 mgs 10 hours later to keep DTs at bay. Valium has a long half life so he had a fair amount in his system, but he was walking around and talking.

99% of what you hear is someone dying of alcohol poisoning which would have happened regardless as to whether Valium or some other substance was ingested.

as a question though, presumably when they are being weaned off the booze, surely they aren't taking this volume of Valium and still consuming alcohol are they?

No. Alcohol is ceased. The point is, alcohol potentiates effects of benzos by increasing affinity for binding to GABA receptor. Someone with a BAC of greater than .30 is going to experience saturation of those receptors rapidly and at a lower dose of the benzo. This means 140 mgs of Valuim is accomplishing about same percentage of saturation as 200 mgs as greater percentage can bind to receptor. Valium at this level is stalized. Alcohol is the danger and dangerous effects of alcohol are not potentiated by Valium so to speak. There is a synergistic effect, but not very pronounced in regard to heart rate or respiratory rate unless extremely high dose of Valium, greater than LD 50, or sufficient alcohol to cause poisoning.

Is this a safe combo? No. This combo, however, may not be nest choice for trying to commit suicide either.

Edited December 9, 2012 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Methadone is distributed both in liquid form and pill form. I don't know what form it is given in Thailand, could be both. Yes, usually, one would visit a methadone maitenance clinic once a day to get your dose. But maybe (likely) there are very few of these clinics in Thailand, unlike other large first world cities/countries ...so maybe they give you take-away product, or MAYBE, being Thailand, things outside the norm, can be BOUGHT rather easily.

I said this before in this thread, but will say it again, methadone also is well known to cause stomach upset, nausea and vomiting. I would be willing to guess, that if you hadn't taken it for a while (as in you just take this recreationally, based on availability, you are more likey to feel nauseated from it.) So the report that maybe one? of them vomited, while passed out in their chair, would still indicate use of methadone.

Done would show up on mass spec so no need to speculate about done. I definitely would accept done causing respiratory depression. Seem like cops would have mentioned Done if that was script found. If Thai authorities conclude death caused only by Valium and alcohol, I would say suspect unless there are about 20 other blister packs laying around that were not photographed.

[amykat]

I am assuming the "prescription bottle" from a drug rehab place, did NOT say what it was, otherwise they might have reported that ...but being Thai journalists, maybe not. If you live here and get any kind of medications here, you might have noticed that labeling seems rather minimal, and sometimes totally lacking!

I am not sure what you mean about "Done" showing up on "mass spec" because obviously no tests have been done yet, and the whole purpose of this thread, is that we all speculate on what happened. I don't know either why you are calling it "Done" as nobody will know what you are talking about, including me, who wondered in some previous post of yours, what you were talking about. I have experience working in the drug rehab world, and also with methadone programs, but as far as I know, at least in my home country, we aren't calling it "Done" so maybe you could use a more standard word so the rest of the "non-heroin addict" readers here, can understand what the hell you are talking about!

Just a small suggestion ...and I would also suggest that you stop your promotion of benzos as some super safe drug that can be taken in massive doses with no ill effects. There are many negative effects, one of which is a "rage" reaction that can cause a person to become almost totally psychotic, and do very strange, and abnormal behavior, including suicide or homicide, or just smashing the hell out of everything in their vicinity. Just google "benzos and rage" and see what you find. Mixing them with alcohol is also not recommended. I feel you are giving out some irresponsible opinions here, and while I would agree, that benzos are not a very good choice to commit suicide with, that isn't really the subject here. If we were on a euthanasia website your opinions might be better placed.

[Dancealot]

it would seem candid commentary on the value of the baseless spceculation to be found on this thread is not appreciated.

One can only conclude that such idiocy is not only condoned it is encouraged around here.

Indeed you are right.

I am getting suspicious now as well. how did you know about the wrapper? Or was it just a lucky guess..;-)

[Bpuumike]

Nembutal? Very quick acting...

[F430murci]

I am assuming the "prescription bottle" from a drug rehab place, did NOT say what it was, otherwise they might have reported that ...but being Thai journalists, maybe not. If you live here and get any kind of medications here, you might have noticed that labeling seems rather minimal, and sometimes totally lacking!

I am not sure what you mean about "Done" showing up on "mass spec" because obviously no tests have been done yet, and the whole purpose of this thread, is that we all speculate on what happened. I don't know either why you are calling it "Done" as nobody will know what you are talking about, including me, who wondered in some previous post of yours, what you were talking about. I have experience working in the drug rehab world, and also with methadone programs, but as far as I know, at least in my home country, we aren't calling it "Done" so maybe you could use a more standard word so the rest of the "non-heroin addict" readers here, can understand what the hell you are talking about!

Just a small suggestion ...and I would also suggest that you stop your promotion of benzos as some super safe drug that can be taken in massive doses with no ill effects. There are many negative effects, one of which is a "rage" reaction that can cause a person to become almost totally psychotic, and do very strange, and abnormal behavior, including suicide or homicide, or just smashing the hell out of everything in their vicinity. Just google "benzos and rage" and see what you find. Mixing them with alcohol is also not recommended. I feel you are giving out some irresponsible opinions here, and while I would agree, that benzos are not a very good choice to commit suicide with, that isn't really the subject here. If we were on a euthanasia website your opinions might be better placed.

Don't be so sensitive. Nothing I say will turn anyone into a benzo additct and I am not suggesting anything about suicide. Hopefully, they will run toxicology. That is the only true way to determine cause of death. Working in treatment is honorable, but a bit far from 8 years of medical school and two year residency. Again, my only point is very, very doubtful death caused by alcohol and Valium unless acute alcohol poisoning. Be nice if cops investigate and get it right, but crime scene and evidence is probably already contaminated as they found their smoking gun in form of 10 blister pack of crappy generic low quality India Valium.

[Heng]

Not all international schools have the highest of standards. And there are all kinds of folks in more important/harder to get to positions leading double lives.

[animatic]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915256

Nowhere that I have seen on this thread does it say that the Thai woman saw the two sitting there, left them & went to bed. The door was opened by force the next morning by the security guard.

Unless I have missed something?

#180 from Tazwa

"According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology"

Full post: http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915287

animatic, you certainly seem to be tarring all Thais with the same brush with your post. Perhaps you should re-read it.

That was there to be read in another source, not linked on the TVF page.

We can use information from it but not quote or atribute, etc.

I read it clearly, or would never have posted about it.

Edited December 10, 2012 by animatic

[chrisinth]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915256

Nowhere that I have seen on this thread does it say that the Thai woman saw the two sitting there, left them & went to bed. The door was opened by force the next morning by the security guard.

Unless I have missed something?

#180 from Tazwa

"According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology"

Full post: http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915287

animatic, you certainly seem to be tarring all Thais with the same brush with your post. Perhaps you should re-read it.

That was there to be read in another source, not linked on the TVF page.

We can use information from it but not quote or atribute, etc.

I read it clearly, or would never have posted about it.

Thanks animatic, that was pointed out earlier by Tazwa; I had not seen the other reference.

C

[sirchai]

From the drugs found in the apartment it seems more likely at least one of the men was a recovering drug addict. That drug addicts often take overdoses of medication given to them to help them get off drugs is something every medical practitioner knows. Some drug addicts will even share their medication with equally addicted friends.

That could very well be the case here, particularly as the drug rehabilitation medication was found on the table beside the two men — empty.

Heroin addicts (or Ex) do like to take anything else that makes them feel good, which doesn't mean it would make you feel good.

A long time ago, there were some guys trying to help heroin and Yabaa addicts in Pattaya. Some of them had to be doctors to prescribe- sometimes large quantities- of Methadone for addicts. As usual, some of them just got that to sell it to have money for drugs.

.

Fact is that two men from different countries (again) died under bizarre circumstances.

Doesn't make it easier that they're teaching here for a long time.

Edited December 10, 2012 by sirchai

[wolf5370]

Sorry my last attempt to reply went astray, it somehow got embedded in the original comment. Apologies.

...how do you even ADMINISTER CO2 (or any other gas-) poisoning unless the victims live in a CELLAR ? You would have to airtighten windows, shut off and block air ducts from aircon and then of course, not the least of obstacles, bring the gas in and disperse it, the victims already there, you yourself wearing a gas mask ! In one of the INSPECTOR FRENCH books, if I may swing my specialized knowledge around (...) this was done by a hose from outside a bullseye, this method might work because the victim slept in a ship´s cabin that was welded throughout and tight except for the bullseye. But in an apartment...?

I don't think anyone who suggested Carbon Monoxide (CO not CO2) meant it was deliberate - the usualy way is for a blocked flew. It has been cold lately, maybe they turned on a heater that has not been used a while (though one would think this would be obvious in the scene).

Given their positions (and assuming CCTV shows no third party) it would suggest they were unconscious or at least disabled before vomitting (otherwise one would begin before the other, and movement would be seen). To me this smells much more of accident/misadventure, than foul play.

The GF would be the first point of call for the BiB, and she would know that. Her reason for not being there may easily be reasonable (like work perhaps) - and not taking a key is hardly evidence of a crime either. After 14 years a motive should,be easy to find as it woul dbe related to a change in circumstances - it would require one (unless insanity is involved) as people just do not plan such things over such huge timespans. To me, it is too complicated and error prone to have been a planned murder.

If I was to make a guess (and lets be honest we have only the 'evidence' based in a small report - so we are all hypothesising) I would suggest accidental poisoning - possibly from a bad/tainted batch of recreational drugs.

Edited December 10, 2012 by wolf5370

[Roel]

For all those that already convicted the Thai wife because 'she had no key' and 'she had gone out all night' here is new reporting from another news source. It says: Charlie came to visit his friend Jonathan that night and they locked themselves in the living room. Being her partner of 14 years the Thai wife surely knew the guys were doing drugs, so she left them alone. When she wanted to go to sleep she knocked on the door of the living room. No answer and she assumed they had dozed off and went to sleep in the bedroom. When she woke up the next morning still no answer when she knocked on the door so she got worried and asked a security guard to open it for her.

Not sure if I am allowed to mention the news source on here, let alone a link?

Perhaps the victims' friend who posted earlier on here and said he had been on the phone with the Thai wife can confirm this version of what really has happened?

[sirchai]

I did write a post yesterday, but it got deleted due to a quotation problem ...in this post I said, that methadone IS available in Thailand. The reports that they had some bottles (of liquid I believe it is assumed) from a drug rehab place, suggests to me that they had gotten a hold of methadone ...there is also another poster on here who wrote that he believed that as well.

I'm sure many people have no experience with methadone or even know what it is, so that might be why less people are speculating about it. But it is a quite common thing to OD on. I mentioned yesterday that Anna Nicole Smith, her OD, was attributed mostly to methadone and whatever else she mixed her cocktail with that day.

Liquid methadone is generally consumed once a day at a clinic so it cannot be shared or sold. Does Bkk give take homes?

Methadone has an extremely long half-life. People take it and think a few hours later they are not really feeling it so they may take something else to enhance the effects. The methadone then begins to obtain peak plasma levels around hours 4 - 6 after ingestion and around the same time benzo or other substance reaches peak plasma levels. This can cause respiratory depression to those with high tolerances or who have taken too much.

Methadone is perhaps easiest opiate on which to OD due to slow onset leading people to ingest other substances to acheive a high before peak plasma levels of methadone are reached.

If Bangkok doesn't give "take homes' in large quantities, then Chonburi hospital might do so. Therefore it can easily be bought and shared.

[Tanlic]

If they had been poisoned/taken drugs, etc, they would have stumbled around for a bit and been found dead on the floor, not sat bolt upright in a chair. They would have tried to phone somebody for help.

BIB, check their mobiles/landline for any outgoing/incoming calls, that's your first line of inquiry (after the girlfriend).

Well I just read an atricle on the drug and apparently when overdozing an uspet stomache and slipping into a coma is common place.

I've no idea how the guys died but to start saying it couldn't be this or that and they would stumble around is just complete nonsense.

However I'd say sitting relaxing and slipping into a coma go hand in hand with this drug and perhaps it was just a simple case of overdosing.

Just because they never found 20 empty pkts doesn't mean they hadn't already swallowed a large number beforehand elsewhere.

[sirchai]

If they had been poisoned/taken drugs, etc, they would have stumbled around for a bit and been found dead on the floor, not sat bolt upright in a chair. They would have tried to phone somebody for help.

BIB, check their mobiles/landline for any outgoing/incoming calls, that's your first line of inquiry (after the girlfriend).

Well I just read an atricle on the drug and apparently when overdozing an uspet stomache and slipping into a coma is common place.

I've no idea how the guys died but to start saying it couldn't be this or that and they would stumble around is just complete nonsense.

However I'd say sitting relaxing and slipping into a coma go hand in hand with this drug and perhaps it was just a simple case of overdosing.

Just because they never found 20 empty pkts doesn't mean they hadn't already swallowed a large number beforehand elsewhere.

"I've no idea how the guys died but to start saying it couldn't be this or that and they would stumble around is just complete nonsense."

"Just because they never found 20 empty pkts doesn't mean they hadn't already swallowed a large number beforehand elsewhere."

That's nonsense, indeed.--

[Sing_Sling]

Really horrible news. And reported even more horribly. Aren't there any decent writers in Thailand? Several repetitions, spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes plague this article. RIP. Wow...strange.

Yes, let's concentrate on the language, not the issue

Very odd for them both to die at the same time

[maidu]

over 55 hours since the news broke. No new data from investigators? Oh, that's right, almost forgot, there are no real investigators (or investigations) in Thailand. Even if there were, they wouldn't want farang talking about this case. Better if we all forget about it, and go back thinking of Thailand as the ideal tourist destination, with flowers and blue skies, and colorful coral reefs and miles of trashless beaches, and smiling stewardesses as far as the eye can see.