How Is The Bangkok Condo Market Now, Compared To Two Years Ago?

[HC82]

I left Thailand about two years ago and still own my condo there. I'm curious how the market is doing? Have prices gone up or down? Is it easier or harder to sell now? Do people think things are looking positive or negative for the future?

I'm wondering if I should try to sell now or wait for a better time when demand and prices might be better, or if that time is now.

I own a condo in Trendy on Sukhumvit 13 if that helps.

Thanks!

[usernamex]

The condo market, as far what I have learned, is doing quite well. There are new, mid-level places (between 2 and 6 mil Baht range) popping up all the time and at first glance one may thing there is getting oversupply but in fact the market is making up for poor demand throughout the most of the 2000s. I bought a place in Lat Phrao for 4.2 million Baht almost 2 years ago (Feb 2011, new unit in a new building) and I could sell it now for about 5 mill. One factor is how good the management of the building is. Im by no means a real estate expert but I would hold on to it as I expect it will be appreciating over the next couple of years.

[DrFloyd]

The condo market is still fuelled full steam by all the dirty money created by the Thai economy .

As long as there are no effective laws against money laundering in this country, chances are the Thai condo market will keep doing well .

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I bought a place in Lat Phrao for 4.2 million Baht almost 2 years ago (Feb 2011, new unit in a new building) and I could sell it now for about 5 mill.

Ah, the "could" word. That one seems to crop up everywhere when it comes to property, especially in Thailand. "You could sell this for 5MB", "You could get 50K per month rent for this" etc. etc.

I like to hear "have sold" rather than "could sell", or "have rented" rather than "could rent". Bird in the hand etc.

[usernamex]

Sorry I will rephrase, it is valued at 5 million Baht.

[iluvbeaches]

I think the key to real estate here that many people forget is they buy property at prices where a small group of foreigners like to buy/rent. I don't see the point of limiting your rental and resale options to this.

If you instead buy at Thai prices in Thai owned condos you can own it and later sell to a Thai or foreigner, as some like to venture out of sukhumvit.

That's why I don't think it's reasonable to invest in tourist areas as the interest is too low and may change. Good and growing locations in capitals always have a local population who want to live there.

But I still think too many people dump all their money into real estate and have to sell at a loss rather than holding on to it for minimum 5-10 years. Selling when the opportunity arises and rental income along the way. Just my thoughts.

[london]

HC82,

depending on where you are in Bangkok, prices have either remained steady or at best are up around 15%.

If you are looking at selling, really, you are making that decision as you would have need for the funds now.

No-one can predict the future, you have to make as informed a decision as you can.

For me, it all boils down to your actual return on your investment. If you can better that, then sell. If you can't, then hold.

[bangkokburning]

Say all the owners of condos...

Depends on everything really...location, quality of building and unit itself. Must be 5000 empty condos or condos in consyruction between Huay Kwang and PraRam9 alone. All asking well over 2.5m for tiny boxes. No one biting it appears.

[Khun Jean]

Still buying anything with cash that you have lying around is better then leaving it in bank.

Inflation will eat away the value of cash money at an incredible rate.

Thailand has had its share of devaluations and high inflation, gold is loved by Thais for this reason.

I guess having land and other real estate is for some as good as gold.

Thais are the biggest buyers, foreigners are only noticeable in a few locations.

Not only look at rising prices as an appreciation, see it more accurately as a devaluation of money.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Khun Jean

[HC82]

Ok thanks for all the feedback. I had no idea of the state of the market.

Around the same time I bought my condo I also bought some mutual funds that invest heavily in the Thai stock market. Those are up well over 50% in the same time period! I was hoping there was a similar gold rush in real estate, but it appears that isn't the case. I think I will just hold it for some more years and pray one day there is huge demand and price increases for Bangkok real estate

[eeeya]

Prayer plays no part in a sound investment strategy.

Prayer is for gamblers

[smutcakes]

Good luck selling a Condo in Trendy!

Problem now in Bangkok is oversupply, and probably 80% are buying to let, so massive oversupply of condos for rent, pushing rents/yields down to ridiculous levels if you are lucky enough to rent it out in the first place.

[ExpatOilWorker]

http://www.prakard.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=11

[HC82]

Prayer plays no part in a sound investment strategy.

Prayer is for gamblers

k thx for your input

[HC82]

Good luck selling a Condo in Trendy!

Problem now in Bangkok is oversupply, and probably 80% are buying to let, so massive oversupply of condos for rent, pushing rents/yields down to ridiculous levels if you are lucky enough to rent it out in the first place.

Ya when I bought my place there was a tenant ready to pay 40k/month (maybe it was a lie but I was paying 33.5k in the same building and would have gladly paid 40k to upgrade) and last year when I tried to rent it out, I couldn't find anybody at 40k. Then no takers at 35k, 30k, 25k...finally bit the bullet and rented it to a guy who paid all cash for a year for 18k/month!!!

Such a bargain for him but I just hated paying common area fee's every six months and getting nothing in return. I know a Thai owner would rather have nothing than to lose face for the price I took but I don't care about face lol

Edited January 1, 2013 by HC82

[HC82]

Hopefully when the Regent (or whatever they renamed it) is finished and the Hyatt Regency opens it will revitalize the area and values will go up. I still think Soi 13 is a hidden gem. It's nothing like the surrounding areas, very quiet and clean, but you are steps away from any kind of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, transportation etc that you could ever want.

[SantiSuk]

I think the key to real estate here that many people forget is they buy property at prices where a small group of foreigners like to buy/rent. I don't see the point of limiting your rental and resale options to this.

If you instead buy at Thai prices in Thai owned condos you can own it and later sell to a Thai or foreigner, as some like to venture out of sukhumvit.

That's why I don't think it's reasonable to invest in tourist areas as the interest is too low and may change. Good and growing locations in capitals always have a local population who want to live there.

But I still think too many people dump all their money into real estate and have to sell at a loss rather than holding on to it for minimum 5-10 years. Selling when the opportunity arises and rental income along the way. Just my thoughts.

The higher end of sukhumvit has condos with predominantly Thai or non-falang investors/owners. I have a condo near BTS OnNut which is 90% (my guess) occupied by Thais, some of whom rent from foreign investors mostly from HK/Sing/Japan. It has taken almost a year from completion of the building for 95% sales to be acheived, so I dont think Bangkok is any longer in the classic bubble market of selling-out off plan. I would expect prices to stabilise over the next cycle and as long as the world crawls out of recession and the Thai economic/political scene stays calm, I doubt there will be a bust. i agree with HC82 that rentals are pitiful as a return on current prices but that is symptomatic of the current environment of very low cash deposit savings rates and (still) a risk aversion to equity invetsments. The Asian wealthy are creaming it and the cash has to go somewhere - their penchant for very long term views on accumulating property are legend

The new young middle class in Bangkok is expanding very rapidly and looking to break away from family homes in their mid to late twenties. They are the ones buying/renting in OnNut. Give it another 2 or 3 years and another boom will probably come along.

Would I be building up a property portfolio here if I could? Maybe a bit - for the family not personal gain, but for personal gain in the medium term I am more inclined to beat the herd of the next big cycle movement and put money into equities. Property is certainly no place for short-term specualtive money, particularly here where second-hand property is regarded as used goods.

Disclosure: I've always disliked property as an investment class. So illiquid and so many ownership responsibilities. I cannot understand people's fascination with it, unless you buy into a fund

Edited January 1, 2013 by SantiSuk

[HC82]

I've always disliked property as an investment class. So illiquid and so many ownership responsibilities. I cannot understand people's fascination with it, unless you buy into a fund

Illiquidity can also be a good thing. It can prevent you doing something stupid with the money. Sorta like putting your money into a CD so you don't touch it. This is particularly good when passing the wealth to the next generation is important. Would you rather leave your 15 year old kid $5 million in cash or $5 million in condos?

The other perk is that you, or family members, can live in it, regardless of what happens to the market...

[trogers]

Hopefully when the Regent (or whatever they renamed it) is finished and the Hyatt Regency opens it will revitalize the area and values will go up. I still think Soi 13 is a hidden gem. It's nothing like the surrounding areas, very quiet and clean, but you are steps away from any kind of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, transportation etc that you could ever want.

I wonder whether building a 6-star hotel next to Nana Entertainment Complex will upgrade the neighborhood, or will downgrade the hotel to 3-star...

[iluvbeaches]

Say all the owners of condos...

Depends on everything really...location, quality of building and unit itself. Must be 5000 empty condos or condos in consyruction between Huay Kwang and PraRam9 alone. All asking well over 2.5m for tiny boxes. No one biting it appears.

Don't think I agree with that assessment. My building is near huay kwang and I would estimate 90% occupied, all owners except me are Thai. Some foreigners rent but less than sukhumvit. Mainly owners and a few renters. I'm back in my home country for the next year and renting it for 10k a month to a Thai now but I will definitely hold on to it for at least 4-5 years then see where the market is.

Some of the over priced ones like the higher end Rhythm by Ap seems not to have sold well but Ideo and life condos seem pretty full judging by the clothing hangers on the balconies.

[HC82]

Hopefully when the Regent (or whatever they renamed it) is finished and the Hyatt Regency opens it will revitalize the area and values will go up. I still think Soi 13 is a hidden gem. It's nothing like the surrounding areas, very quiet and clean, but you are steps away from any kind of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, transportation etc that you could ever want.

I wonder whether building a 6-star hotel next to Nana Entertainment Complex will upgrade the neighborhood, or will downgrade the hotel to 3-star...

Common misconception. It's not 'next to' Nana. That is Soi 4. This is Soi 13. You have to cross the road and then go past soi 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 before you reach it - quite a long journey. Certainly long enough for the scum to wear off.

It is however right next to Soi 11, but that's a pretty nice soi with some great restaurants, nice hotels etc on it, nothing like Soi 4.

[HC82]

If you disagree, then Siam Paragon and Chula are 'next to' Patpong and they seem to be doing alright.

Edited January 2, 2013 by HC82

[trogers]

Hopefully when the Regent (or whatever they renamed it) is finished and the Hyatt Regency opens it will revitalize the area and values will go up. I still think Soi 13 is a hidden gem. It's nothing like the surrounding areas, very quiet and clean, but you are steps away from any kind of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, transportation etc that you could ever want.

I wonder whether building a 6-star hotel next to Nana Entertainment Complex will upgrade the neighborhood, or will downgrade the hotel to 3-star...

Common misconception. It's not 'next to' Nana. That is Soi 4. This is Soi 13. You have to cross the road and then go past soi 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 before you reach it - quite a long journey. Certainly long enough for the scum to wear off.

It is however right next to Soi 11, but that's a pretty nice soi with some great restaurants, nice hotels etc on it, nothing like Soi 4.

Take a stroll down Sukhumvit from soi 3 to Soi 19 after 9pm with your young kids and explain to them what they will see. Who are those ladies in sexy attire hanging about smiling at passing guys? Who are those dark skinned guys striking up conversations with passerbys? What do those stalls sell with their mix of plastic toys and boxes of medicine? Why do those stalls sell DVD movies with sexy people on the covers that are not shown in the local theatres?

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Take a stroll down Sukhumvit from soi 3 to Soi 19 after 9pm with your young kids and explain to them what they will see. Who are those ladies in sexy attire hanging about smiling at passing guys? Who are those dark skinned guys striking up conversations with passerbys? What do those stalls sell with their mix of plastic toys and boxes of medicine? Why do those stalls sell DVD movies with sexy people on the covers that are not shown in the local theatres?

Who cares?

If anyone with young children is bothered by this, maybe they should just move to Disneyland where they belong instead of expecting everyone else to alter their lifestyles just to suit them and their blinkered view of what life is about?

[trogers]

Take a stroll down Sukhumvit from soi 3 to Soi 19 after 9pm with your young kids and explain to them what they will see. Who are those ladies in sexy attire hanging about smiling at passing guys? Who are those dark skinned guys striking up conversations with passerbys? What do those stalls sell with their mix of plastic toys and boxes of medicine? Why do those stalls sell DVD movies with sexy people on the covers that are not shown in the local theatres?

Who cares?

If anyone with young children is bothered by this, maybe they should just move to Disneyland where they belong instead of expecting everyone else to alter their lifestyles just to suit them and their blinkered view of what life is about?

Take a stroll down Sukhumvit from soi 3 to Soi 19 after 9pm with your young kids and explain to them what they will see. Who are those ladies in sexy attire hanging about smiling at passing guys? Who are those dark skinned guys striking up conversations with passerbys? What do those stalls sell with their mix of plastic toys and boxes of medicine? Why do those stalls sell DVD movies with sexy people on the covers that are not shown in the local theatres?

Who cares?

If anyone with young children is bothered by this, maybe they should just move to Disneyland where they belong instead of expecting everyone else to alter their lifestyles just to suit them and their blinkered view of what life is about?

No need to be near Disneyland. They will reside somewhere between Phrompong and Thonglor leaving bachelors seeking a particular lifestyle to reside in this area. Thus the hope of "...will revitalize the area and values will go up" is unlikely to come about.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

No need to be near Disneyland. They will reside somewhere between Phrompong and Thonglor leaving bachelors seeking a particular lifestyle to reside in this area. Thus the hope of "...will revitalize the area and values will go up" is unlikely to come about.

No reason why the area shouldn't become popular with more bachelors (or liberal couples for that matter), thus putting the prices up. People without children generally have more money available to spend on other things, including renting or buying condos.

[HC82]

Hopefully when the Regent (or whatever they renamed it) is finished and the Hyatt Regency opens it will revitalize the area and values will go up. I still think Soi 13 is a hidden gem. It's nothing like the surrounding areas, very quiet and clean, but you are steps away from any kind of entertainment, shopping, nightlife, transportation etc that you could ever want.

I wonder whether building a 6-star hotel next to Nana Entertainment Complex will upgrade the neighborhood, or will downgrade the hotel to 3-star...

Common misconception. It's not 'next to' Nana. That is Soi 4. This is Soi 13. You have to cross the road and then go past soi 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 before you reach it - quite a long journey. Certainly long enough for the scum to wear off.

It is however right next to Soi 11, but that's a pretty nice soi with some great restaurants, nice hotels etc on it, nothing like Soi 4.

Take a stroll down Sukhumvit from soi 3 to Soi 19 after 9pm with your young kids and explain to them what they will see. Who are those ladies in sexy attire hanging about smiling at passing guys? Who are those dark skinned guys striking up conversations with passerbys? What do those stalls sell with their mix of plastic toys and boxes of medicine? Why do those stalls sell DVD movies with sexy people on the covers that are not shown in the local theatres?

[IMA_FARANG]

I bought a place in Lat Phrao for 4.2 million Baht almost 2 years ago (Feb 2011, new unit in a new building) and I could sell it now for about 5 mill.

Ah, the "could" word. That one seems to crop up everywhere when it comes to property, especially in Thailand. "You could sell this for 5MB", "You could get 50K per month rent for this" etc. etc.

I like to hear "have sold" rather than "could sell", or "have rented" rather than "could rent". Bird in the hand etc.

I bought a place in Lat Phrao for 4.2 million Baht almost 2 years ago (Feb 2011, new unit in a new building) and I could sell it now for about 5 mill.

Ah, the "could" word. That one seems to crop up everywhere when it comes to property, especially in Thailand. "You could sell this for 5MB", "You could get 50K per month rent for this" etc. etc.

I like to hear "have sold" rather than "could sell", or "have rented" rather than "could rent". Bird in the hand etc.

------------------

Precisely.

Price you purchased unit for ..... 2,5 million Baht.

Currebt value of unit ...... 5 million Baht (but not yet sold)

Profit ..... nothing (or loss of 2.5 million Bant if you wish to figure it that way).

Why .... because you haven't sold it yet.

Bird in the hand as you say.

[eeeya]

I closely watched a higher end new condo in thong lo. From release off the plan, to re sale mid build by speculators and finally at completion of the build (where speculators would have to pay up full)

Id have to say that it was all pretty unteresting profit wise for the off the plan buyer.

A contact I saw with buy and sell price over a two year period yielded about 200k profit for a 7 m condo.

The only benefit I could see was the down payment was minimal and monthly payments were about half by the time the condo was completed.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

A contact I saw with buy and sell price over a two year period yielded about 200k profit for a 7 m condo.

Does that take into account all fees and taxes, and loss of interest on the instalments paid during construction?