Uproar As U S Newspaper Publishes Gun Owner Details Online

[Baloo22]

Hmmm, are you saying gun ownership is wrong? It's a constitutional right, so is neither legally nor morally wrong.

You do know the constitution has been amended many times, don't you?

FYI: The constitution has been amended 27 times since it's inception in 1787. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights and were added in 1791. The last one was added in 1992.

Amending any document 27 times in 226 years seems a rather rare occurrence to me.

It is rather more of a rare occurrence that any nation would be silly enough to try and govern itself on the contents of a document written 250 years ago, a time since when, we have seen the industrial revolution, leaps ahead in terms of technology and armed warfare and the introduction of global financial systems. I guess though when many European countries have houses older than the US constitution you have to hang on to whatever history you can. The gun laws are grossly out dated, simple as that, they were written 250 years ago be men in a different world, with different circumstances and if those founding fathers were all alive today and asked to write a constitution for the USA it would be drastically different to the one they wrote 250 years ago..

In the final analysis, our Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, has served us well. For over 220 years we have held Congressional elections every two years, and elected Presidents every four years. This includes during great national trials such as the four years of our Civil War, the great Depression, and World War Two. For over 220 years, we have had no dictators and no military coups. Take a look around our world and you will find that this is rare.

If you really want, I can provide list of contrasting examples from Europe!

[OzMick]

It is rather more of a rare occurrence that any nation would be silly enough to try and govern itself on the contents of a document written 250 years ago, a time since when, we have seen the industrial revolution, leaps ahead in terms of technology and armed warfare and the introduction of global financial systems. I guess though when many European countries have houses older than the US constitution you have to hang on to whatever history you can. The gun laws are grossly out dated, simple as that, they were written 250 years ago be men in a different world, with different circumstances and if those founding fathers were all alive today and asked to write a constitution for the USA it would be drastically different to the one they wrote 250 years ago..

Many of the right wing gun advocates also claim to be christians, and firmly believe texts many times older, even if many are contradictory or just plain silly. Lucky for them the First Amendment to "Thou shall not kill" allows exceptions for those your government doesn't like, Asian kids knocking on the wrong door, trespassing blacks and Latinos, etc.

Forgiveness of sin is also very popular and much cheaper than the old system of selling indulgences.

[Baloo22]

Why is it that among Western democratic countries US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government and attempt to block all controls to access semi/automatic weapons, limits on ammunition purchases and magazine capacity.

As mentioned earlier, even much of modern, democratic Europe was under dictatorial control relatively recently.

...

The Nazi regime rose out of a functioning—though deeply flawed—democracy, so even regular elections are an uncertain barrier to tyrannical rulers.

...

But even a perfectly stable democracy is no guarantee against the future. Not content to engage in mass murder within their own borders, totalitarian armies have exported mayhem to neighboring countries.

http://reason.com/ar...s-bred-defian/5

Honestly, dude...get a grip! Comparing the USA of 2012 to the Germany of 1933 is downright stupid and I am sick of reading this crap! Check your facts! It is not even the usual comparing apples to oranges! It is comparing apples to elephants!

Wrong again! Koheesti point is on topic and well-made. It is a valid comparison.

Our Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, has served us well. For over 220 years we have held regular elections of our government's leaders. For over 220 years, we have had no dictators and no military coups. A large amount of credit for that goes to our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and the wise citizens who drafted both of them.

[F430murci]

You do know the constitution has been amended many times, don't you?

FYI: The constitution has been amended 27 times since it's inception in 1787. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights and were added in 1791. The last one was added in 1992.

Amending any document 27 times in 226 years seems a rather rare occurrence to me.

It is rather more of a rare occurrence that any nation would be silly enough to try and govern itself on the contents of a document written 250 years ago, a time since when, we have seen the industrial revolution, leaps ahead in terms of technology and armed warfare and the introduction of global financial systems. I guess though when many European countries have houses older than the US constitution you have to hang on to whatever history you can. The gun laws are grossly out dated, simple as that, they were written 250 years ago be men in a different world, with different circumstances and if those founding fathers were all alive today and asked to write a constitution for the USA it would be drastically different to the one they wrote 250 years ago..

Relax. The current administration doesn't pay any attention to the Constitution anyway.

So bitter. Why do gun guys seems so angry and bitter. Warrior gene?

RE: your other post

Not about control. About safety and common sense. Interestingly, it is Republicans that typical try to force their values and beliefs upon others. Liberals typically endorse freedom of thought and independence. Republicans and Chistian right want to tell people how to live, how to think, what to do with their bodies, and etc. Republicans react to fear and insecurity, need structure, and want to be told what to do, how to think and how to live.

Studies vave shown that liberals are freer thinkers and have higher IQs than religious and conservative people. So I don't buy your Democrats only try to control and don't adhere ti or "pay attention to the Constitution."

"Moving on. Now what about IQ and racism, prejudice and bigotry? They are all linked as well. According to Psychological Science, those who score lower on IQ charts in adolescence tend to grow up to have Conservative views and may develop prejudiced beliefs as well."

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/13/1131220/-Religious-and-Conservative-people-have-lower-IQs-than-their-counterparts

Edited December 29, 2012 by F430murci

[GentlemanJim]

Relax. The current administration doesn't pay any attention to the Constitution anyway.

Well if you guy's would have had the balls to run with Ron Paul then in January you would probably be investing a President who would have adhered strictly to the constitution and would be capable of getting the US out of it's current financial predicament, that is assuming non of the big corporation folks didn't whack him first with any of those guns bought under the 2nd Amendment.

Wrong again! Koheesti point is on topic and well-made. It is a valid comparison.

Our Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, has served us well. For over 220 years we have held regular elections of our government's leaders. For over 220 years, we have had no dictators and no military coups. A large amount of credit for that goes to our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and the wise citizens who drafted both of them.

Utter baloney, you need to go and re-check your history. I guess you mean know successful military coups! or doesn't a civil war count as one of those?......convenient. The UK has had a similar record of regular elections and guess what.........no constitution.

And here we have th master piece ion TV that shows us exactly the problem with the US now.

What you anti-gun nuts don't seem to realize about the gun control issue being pushed by the Democrats is...

It isn't about guns, it is about CONTROL.

.............It's those that don't want guns that are the nuts!! (looks for a smiley of shaking head in hands!)

[thaibeachlovers]

[You do know the constitution has been amended many times, don't you?

FYI: The constitution has been amended 27 times since it's inception in 1787. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights and were added in 1791. The last one was added in 1992.

Amending any document 27 times in 226 years seems a rather rare occurrence to me.

For all those getting their knickers in a twist about the morality of gun ownership, for a start, it has nothing to do with the constitution ( but at present Americans have a constitutional erg legal right to own guns ). There is nothing immoral about owning a gun, but using it to kill innocents would be immoral.

Cars kill more people than guns- are they immoral?

Knives kill- empty the kitchen drawer.

A ball point pen can kill- ban them.

People kill with fists- shall we ban the human race?

All this talk about nutcases and no one has brought up the primary reason the founding fathers guaranteed the ownership of guns- it is to prevent the tyranny of the government.

American freedom isn't guaranteed by a piece of paper ( the supreme court does not uphold the constitution in every case ). American freedom is kept because the government knows it can't win against an armed population.

Why is it that among Western democratic countries US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government and attempt to block all controls to access semi/automatic weapons, limits on ammunition purchases and magazine capacity. Even statements that banning weapons may lead to a Civil War with all the horror that would create. Police associations that are for gun control legislation are accused of being corrupt. A very weird place...

<US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!

Post modified to allow posting.

[Scott]

This thread is getting way ooooffff-topic. There are a number of threads on the issue of guns in the US. This one is about a newspaper running a list of people with a PERMIT to own a gun--not everyone who has a permit, has a gun. I also believe it is specific to having a handgun.

Please stay on the topic, further off-topic posts will be deleted.

[gl555]

<US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!

Post modified to allow posting.

Very true. The Rodney King riots is a good example. The Koreans in Koreatown defended themselves with guns from mob attacks and looting.

[thaibeachlovers]

Relax. The current administration doesn't pay any attention to the Constitution anyway.

Well if you guy's would have had the balls to run with Ron Paul then in January you would probably be investing a President who would have adhered strictly to the constitution and would be capable of getting the US out of it's current financial predicament, that is assuming non of the big corporation folks didn't whack him first with any of those guns bought under the 2nd Amendment.

Wrong again! Koheesti point is on topic and well-made. It is a valid comparison.

Our Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, has served us well. For over 220 years we have held regular elections of our government's leaders. For over 220 years, we have had no dictators and no military coups. A large amount of credit for that goes to our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and the wise citizens who drafted both of them.

Utter baloney, you need to go and re-check your history. I guess you mean know successful military coups! or doesn't a civil war count as one of those?......convenient. The UK has had a similar record of regular elections and guess what.........no constitution.

And here we have th master piece ion TV that shows us exactly the problem with the US now.

What you anti-gun nuts don't seem to realize about the gun control issue being pushed by the Democrats is...

It isn't about guns, it is about CONTROL.

.............It's those that don't want guns that are the nuts!! (looks for a smiley of shaking head in hands!)

<The UK has had a similar record of regular elections and guess what.........no constitution.>

But it does have Magna Carta and common law.

Besides, I lived there for over 10 years, and it is a very, very dangerous place with gangs of stupid young thugs beating up anyone that stands up against them. If the good guys had guns, I reckon the moron thugs would think twice about attacking them.

I was more in fear for my life in London because of the criminals ( none of whom have a problem obtaining guns ) than I am in Bangkok.

Gun control only affects the law abiding, not the criminal.

Sorry Scott. Posted this before I saw your post.

Edited December 29, 2012 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On topic.

Apparently, people without a gun in the house are upset about the list being published because now the criminals know who is unarmed, and which houses to break into!

[Scott]

From the article, it is difficult to ascertain if it contains ALL people with a gun or just those who have a permit for a handgun. Might want to be careful, you might find yourself facing a rifle.

[thaibeachlovers]

From the article, it is difficult to ascertain if it contains ALL people with a gun or just those who have a permit for a handgun. Might want to be careful, you might find yourself facing a rifle.

It will be interesting to see if the rate of breakins on "unarmed" houses ( according to the list ) will increase in future and the rate on "armed" houses decreases.

If that can be proven, I'd imagine that the newspaper will be facing lawsuits by those that got broken into.

[F430murci]

From the article, it is difficult to ascertain if it contains ALL people with a gun or just those who have a permit for a handgun. Might want to be careful, you might find yourself facing a rifle.

It will be interesting to see if the rate of breakins on "unarmed" houses ( according to the list ) will increase in future and the rate on "armed" houses decreases.

If that can be proven, I'd imagine that the newspaper will be facing lawsuits by those that got broken into.

With a 1/2 million guns being stolen in any given year, it may be the houses with guns that will be targeted, especially if they have .223s or valuable guns.

[chuckd]

From your quoted post...

Studies vave shown that liberals are freer thinkers and have higher IQs than religious and conservative people. So I don't buy your Democrats only try to control and don't adhere ti or "pay attention to the Constitution."

"Moving on. Now what about IQ and racism, prejudice and bigotry? They are all linked as well. According to Psychological Science, those who score lower on IQ charts in adolescence tend to grow up to have Conservative views and may develop prejudiced beliefs as well."

http://m.dailykos.co...ir-counterparts

The Daily Kos???

About the founder:

Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (/ˈmɑrkoʊs muːˈliːtsəs/; born September 11, 1971), often known by his username and former military nickname "Kos" (kōz), is the founder and publisher of Daily Kos, A BLOG FOCUSING ON LIBERAL AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES. He is also a weekly columnist at the Washington, D.C. newspaper, The Hill, and a contributing columnist at Newsweek.[1]

Moulitsas currently resides in Berkeley, California, with his wife and two children.[2]

http://en.wikipedia....arkos_Moulitsas

(Caps added)

[F430murci]

From your quoted post...

Studies vave shown that liberals are freer thinkers and have higher IQs than religious and conservative people. So I don't buy your Democrats only try to control and don't adhere ti or "pay attention to the Constitution."

"Moving on. Now what about IQ and racism, prejudice and bigotry? They are all linked as well. According to Psychological Science, those who score lower on IQ charts in adolescence tend to grow up to have Conservative views and may develop prejudiced beliefs as well."

http://m.dailykos.co...ir-counterparts

The Daily Kos???

About the founder:

Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (/ˈmɑrkoʊs muːˈliːtsəs/; born September 11, 1971), often known by his username and former military nickname "Kos" (kōz), is the founder and publisher of Daily Kos, A BLOG FOCUSING ON LIBERAL AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES. He is also a weekly columnist at the Washington, D.C. newspaper, The Hill, and a contributing columnist at Newsweek.[1]

Moulitsas currently resides in Berkeley, California, with his wife and two children.[2]

http://en.wikipedia....arkos_Moulitsas

(Caps added)

Haha, do you think a conservative Rush Limbaugh type would tout these facts.

Attack studies or message not messenger. Very common knowledge.

Check out percentage of Harvard students that are liberal or percentage of country's professors that are liberal.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2005/4/7/study-finds-academia-may-favor-liberals/

[DocN]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

[chuckd]

From your quoted post...

Studies vave shown that liberals are freer thinkers and have higher IQs than religious and conservative people. So I don't buy your Democrats only try to control and don't adhere ti or "pay attention to the Constitution."

"Moving on. Now what about IQ and racism, prejudice and bigotry? They are all linked as well. According to Psychological Science, those who score lower on IQ charts in adolescence tend to grow up to have Conservative views and may develop prejudiced beliefs as well."

http://m.dailykos.co...ir-counterparts

The Daily Kos???

About the founder:

Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (/ˈmɑrkoʊs muːˈliːtsəs/; born September 11, 1971), often known by his username and former military nickname "Kos" (kōz), is the founder and publisher of Daily Kos, A BLOG FOCUSING ON LIBERAL AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES. He is also a weekly columnist at the Washington, D.C. newspaper, The Hill, and a contributing columnist at Newsweek.[1]

Moulitsas currently resides in Berkeley, California, with his wife and two children.[2]

http://en.wikipedia....arkos_Moulitsas

(Caps added)

Haha, do you think a conservative Rush Limbaugh type would tout these facts.

Attack studies or message not messenger. Very common knowledge.

Check out percentage of Harvard students that are liberal or percentage of country's professors that are liberal.

http://www.thecrimso...favor-liberals/

Any linked article that begins with this sentence is hardly an unbiased source, including all information contained therein.

"Liberals and Atheists are smarter than Religious Conservatives. Who knew!"

Now please tell me how the author can make the claim that Liberals and Atheists are smarter than all "Religious Conservatives" is anything other than ludicrous. Surely, somewhere out there in never-never land it is possible that ONE (or more) religious conservative could be located that is smarter than ONE (or more) liberal atheist.

I read your link and found it laughable.

Now, let me pose a hypothetical question to all you anti-gun zealots out there.

Suppose you and a friend were walking down the street and were were accosted by a criminal carrying a weapon threatening you with bodily harm.

Would you rather be accompanied by a citizen with a legal gun or a lawyer or newspaper editor carrying the latest issue of "The Harvard Crimson"?

Edited December 29, 2012 by chuckd

[chuckd]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

Not being from any of those countries mentioned I hesitate to bring this up since I have no knowledge of the facts, but I will ask the question anyway.

Which of those countries ( Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada) guarantee by law or constitution their citizens the right of Freedom of Speech?

[15Peter20]

Hmmm, are you saying gun ownership is wrong? It's a constitutional right, so is neither legally nor morally wrong.

You do know the constitution has been amended many times, don't you?

FYI: The constitution has been amended 27 times since it's inception in 1787. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights and were added in 1791. The last one was added in 1992.

Amending any document 27 times in 226 years seems a rather rare occurrence to me.

For all those getting their knickers in a twist about the morality of gun ownership, for a start, it has nothing to do with the constitution ( but at present Americans have a constitutional erg legal right to own guns ). There is nothing immoral about owning a gun, but using it to kill innocents would be immoral.

Cars kill more people than guns- are they immoral?

Knives kill- empty the kitchen drawer.

A ball point pen can kill- ban them.

People kill with fists- shall we ban the human race?

All this talk about nutcases and no one has brought up the primary reason the founding fathers guaranteed the ownership of guns- it is to prevent the tyranny of the government.

American freedom isn't guaranteed by a piece of paper ( the supreme court does not uphold the constitution in every case ). American freedom is kept because the government knows it can't win against an armed population.

America - so forward thinking in some ways. So backward in others.

The ability to evolve and develop depends on the ability to change. I suggest that the reason for which you say people can keep guns in America (to somehow 'trump' the democratic process Americans are so proud of in the face of some kind of undefined rogue government behavior) is completely at odds with the way modern countries operate.

Are we talking about the US or Myanmar here?

[sunshine51]

From the article, it is difficult to ascertain if it contains ALL people with a gun or just those who have a permit for a handgun. Might want to be careful, you might find yourself facing a rifle.

At that close a range it doesn't really matter...

[simple1]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

Not being from any of those countries mentioned I hesitate to bring this up since I have no knowledge of the facts, but I will ask the question anyway.

Which of those countries ( Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada) guarantee by law or constitution their citizens the right of Freedom of Speech?

Australian Five fundamental Freedoms below: Note freedom of speech does not include incitement of hate that some US citizens seem to view as a fundamental right

http://www.immi.gov....ve-freedoms.htm

Edited December 29, 2012 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[Scott]

English is the only language permitted other than the Thai language forum.

[DocN]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

Not being from any of those countries mentioned I hesitate to bring this up since I have no knowledge of the facts, but I will ask the question anyway.

Which of those countries ( Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada) guarantee by law or constitution their citizens the right of Freedom of Speech?

Okay, so again and only in English and I guess we have to do without quotes then!

Article 5 of the German constitution grants the freedom of speech and expression, the free admission to public sources for information and the freedom of broadcasting without censorship!

I can not speak for other countries, but...here we go!

[Scott]

An off-topic exchange has been deleted. Continued off-topic posting will result in suspensions.

[sunshine51]

This thread has turned into not a thread concerning a newspapers publication

of who owns guns but a thread that bashes the US because of it's gun laws.

Let's get this straight from my POV...The USA has it's gun laws. The rest

of the world has theirs. That's all there is to it. If you non Americans don't like

the US gun laws that's your problem but don't come screaming to the US

if some other nation invades you and ask the US for help because you cannot

defend yourselves. They're America's laws...and nobody else's...regardless

of what the rest of the world thinks or expounds.

Edited December 29, 2012 by sunshine51

[simple1]

This thread has turned into not a thread concerning a newspapers publication

of who owns guns but a thread that bashes the US because of it's gun laws.

Let's get this straight from my POV...The USA has it's gun laws. The rest

of the world has theirs. That's all there is to it. If you non Americans don't like

the US gun laws that's your problem but don't come screaming to the US

if some other nation invades you and ask the US for help because you cannot

defend yourselves. They're America's laws...and nobody else's...regardless

of what the rest of the world thinks or expounds.

Aren't American citizens ardent supporters of free speech no matter how much you may disagree with a POV? To link criticism of US gun laws with refuting international defense alliances is OTP, don't you think? Or are you just having some fun on a lazy afternoon...

[DocN]

This thread has turned into not a thread concerning a newspapers publication

of who owns guns but a thread that bashes the US because of it's gun laws.

Let's get this straight from my POV...The USA has it's gun laws. The rest

of the world has theirs. That's all there is to it. If you non Americans don't like

the US gun laws that's your problem but don't come screaming to the US

if some other nation invades you and ask the US for help because you cannot

defend yourselves. They're America's laws...and nobody else's...regardless

of what the rest of the world thinks or expounds.

Aren't American citizens ardent supporters of free speech no matter how much you may disagree with a POV? To link criticism of US gun laws with refuting international defense alliances is OTP, don't you think? Or are you just having some fun on a lazy afternoon...

The thing that I find most irritating, is how all those "pro- gunners", those law abiding citizens, always only pick the laws, regulations and freedoms, that are convenient for them and their POV.

I absolutely think this newspaper- article is stupid and senseless and not one bit constructive!

It's rubbish, it proves nothing and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

At the same time, I also believe, that publishing the photos, names and adresses of pedophiles is absolutely the same thing.

Just imagine what harm you are doing, if a guy is fighting his "demon" and doing well...and you stigmatize him again and again!

Freedom of speech?

More a paranoid action due to a false feeling of security.

But ask right-wing America about that, what do you get?

"I don't want these monsters to live among us!"

The problem here is, that a lobby is a lobby!

It doesn't start with the rich weapon- sellers, it stars with Johnny Average!

And all are conveniently swaggering around the laws and limitations of their own, personal piece of freedom and not having a look at the whole picture.

[beechguy]

This thread has turned into not a thread concerning a newspapers publication

of who owns guns but a thread that bashes the US because of it's gun laws.

Let's get this straight from my POV...The USA has it's gun laws. The rest

of the world has theirs. That's all there is to it. If you non Americans don't like

the US gun laws that's your problem but don't come screaming to the US

if some other nation invades you and ask the US for help because you cannot

defend yourselves. They're America's laws...and nobody else's...regardless

of what the rest of the world thinks or expounds.

Aren't American citizens ardent supporters of free speech no matter how much you may disagree with a POV? To link criticism of US gun laws with refuting international defense alliances is OTP, don't you think? Or are you just having some fun on a lazy afternoon...

The thing that I find most irritating, is how all those "pro- gunners", those law abiding citizens, always only pick the laws, regulations and freedoms, that are convenient for them and their POV.

I absolutely think this newspaper- article is stupid and senseless and not one bit constructive!

It's rubbish, it proves nothing and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

At the same time, I also believe, that publishing the photos, names and adresses of pedophiles is absolutely the same thing.

Just imagine what harm you are doing, if a guy is fighting his "demon" and doing well...and you stigmatize him again and again!

Freedom of speech?

More a paranoid action due to a false feeling of security.

But ask right-wing America about that, what do you get?

"I don't want these monsters to live among us!"

The problem here is, that a lobby is a lobby!

It doesn't start with the rich weapon- sellers, it stars with Johnny Average!

And all are conveniently swaggering around the laws and limitations of their own, personal piece of freedom and not having a look at the whole picture.

It isn't the same thing, the gun owners aren't breaking any laws, the pedophiles have been convicted by the legal system.

People like you are the one's missing the whole picture, you don't have a clue about who is doing most of the homicides, or the weapons being used, or how they got there.

But of course once again, this is Thai Visa and no need to let facts get in the way is there.

Edited December 29, 2012 by beechguy

[chuckd]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

Not being from any of those countries mentioned I hesitate to bring this up since I have no knowledge of the facts, but I will ask the question anyway.

Which of those countries ( Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada) guarantee by law or constitution their citizens the right of Freedom of Speech?

Okay, so again and only in English and I guess we have to do without quotes then!

Article 5 of the German constitution grants the freedom of speech and expression, the free admission to public sources for information and the freedom of broadcasting without censorship!

I can not speak for other countries, but...here we go!

Does the Neo-Nazi party (if there is such a thing) have the same rights to freedom of speech as other political parties?

I honestly don't know and am curious.

Thank you.

[DocN]

"US citizens believe they need to be armed to protect themselves against their government>

Indeed they do. They only have to look at the limitations on freedom that exist in Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada to see what happens to people that cannot guarantee their freedom.

Another reason to support gun ownership. During riots and natural catastrophes business owners have saved their property from looting by lying on their roof with assault rifles. No doubt the anti gun lobby would be happy to see their businesses destroyed!"

Okay...I am from Europe! Germany, to be precise!

If this is off- topic, please PM me, what "limitations of freedom" there are!

I would really like to know!

But please: the freedom to buy a gun of whatever size and firepower does NOT count!

Name ONE other limitation of freedom.please!

Just ONE!!!

Not being from any of those countries mentioned I hesitate to bring this up since I have no knowledge of the facts, but I will ask the question anyway.

Which of those countries ( Australia, New Zealand, UK / Euro zone, Scandinavia and Canada) guarantee by law or constitution their citizens the right of Freedom of Speech?

Okay, so again and only in English and I guess we have to do without quotes then!

Article 5 of the German constitution grants the freedom of speech and expression, the free admission to public sources for information and the freedom of broadcasting without censorship!

I can not speak for other countries, but...here we go!

Does the Neo-Nazi party (if there is such a thing) have the same rights to freedom of speech as other political parties?

I honestly don't know and am curious.

Thank you.

There are some extreme right wing parties and I guess, it is okay to call them Neo Nazis.

There have been many attempts to make them illegal. Some attempts were successfull others not so much.

There even have been Neo Nazis in some local or regional parliaments (Germany being a Federation as you may know?!), but non made it to the Federal Parliament since the 50's , I think, but I would have to check that.

It always is tricky: of course under the constitution, they would have to have their freedom of speech...but if you are having anti-constitutional passages in your parties- program...well...