Parliamentary Review Of The New Family Migration Rules

[Tony M]

This will be of interest to many UK sponsors who are unable to meet the new financial requirements in the Immigration Rules. I'm surprised nobody has posted this before as it affects many people, and is time sensitive. There is also an e-petition that some people may have already signed.

http://www.appgmigra.../family-inquiry

http://epetitions.di...petitions/34835

There is an online questionnaire which is not easy to find. This is the link :

http://www.appgmigration.org.uk/content/family-inquiry-online-evidence-submission

Edited January 3, 2013 by Tony M

[theoldgit]

I'm surprised nobody has posted this before as it affects many people, and is time sensitive.

You just can't get the staff.

[Tony M]

They should be paying me......................................

There have been other recent developments ( of sorts). First, a quote from the House of Lords :

“I agree with my noble friend that no area is more complex than the whole business of the Immigration Rules and the procedures surrounding them.”

Those Lords can't be asleep all of the time, then.

The above quote was made during a debate to amend the change to the Immigration Rules that will end the right of appeal against family visit visa refusals. Sadly, the amendment wasn’t passed, and the right of appeal will soon be scrapped.

The debate was long, but here is an extract to give the flavour :

Lord Taylor of Holbeach said ( amongst other things) :

“Clause 26 removes the right of appeal against the refusal of a visa to visit family members, except where the appeal is brought on racial discrimination or human rights grounds. I had hoped that in the five months since we considered this matter in Committee, and in the light of the arguments that we advanced then, the Government would have had second thoughts about this clause. It is disappointing to see no sign of that on the Order Paper.

I shall explain why we felt the need to return to this matter. The Government's hostility to the right to family life is exemplified by the making of new Immigration Rules making it far more difficult and expensive for spouses and elderly dependent relatives to join heads of households in the UK, reducing the number by an expected 35%, over which the Immigration Minister is already crowing. Clause 26 turns the screw further by preventing appeals that would have been successful under the law as it now stands. I pointed out in Committee that if the argument for Clause 26 was that the number of appeals had risen to far greater levels than were expected when the right of appeal was restored in 2000, as was argued before the Home Affairs Select Committee, the obvious remedy was to get UKBA's decisions right in the first place. Almost one-third of them are overturned, according to my noble kinsman Lord Henley in Committee, involving the taxpayer in a great deal of unnecessary expense. My noble kinsman said that taking away the right of appeal would lift the burden of processing 50,000 appeals from visa staff, but that was based on the assumption that officials would continue to reject bona fide applications at the same rate as they have in the past. We are told constantly that UKBA is undergoing processes of reform, which will enable them to be more accurate in the first decisions that they make.

After the case of Alvi, which your Lordships have discussed, the information required to be submitted with the visa application is now set out in detail in the rules themselves, so that in theory, there should be fewer cases where an applicant has omitted a particular document. However, considering the volume and complexity of the rules, which was mentioned by my noble friend Lord Lester on the previous amendment, it is inevitable that some applications will be refused for that reason. The Government suggest that persons who have omitted a document should put in a new application rectifying the omission at a cost of £78. That may be a trivial sum to my noble friends on the Front Bench, but it is a lot of money to a poor farmer in Gujarat or Sylhet.”

Edited January 3, 2013 by Tony M

[Tony M]

You have until the end of this month to submit any suggestions.

[theoldgit]

I'm going to bump this up throughout the month, I would urge anybody who may be affected to express your views on the online survey.

Even if you're not affected, but have a view, I would urge to to make your view known.

[Tony M]

I'm going to bump this up throughout the month, I would urge anybody who may be affected to express your views on the online survey.

Even if you're not affected, but have a view, I would urge to to make your view known.

Good idea. Thanks.

[theoldgit]

I'm moving this up again, please make your views known.

[Jay Sata]

I'm moving this up again, please make your views known.

I'm afraid you'll find the bulk of the UK voters are not going to quibble with the changes and their MP's and members of the House of Lord's are also in support.

I've been married to a Thai for around 15 years and we live for most of the year in the UK but I support any law that will prevent further migration unless it is not a burden on society. The issues with UK mass immigration centre on the abuse of the system by in the main economic migration from the Indian subcon.

The current rules pretty much allow you to bring your wife to the UK as long as you can support her and any dependants.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Jay Sata

[theoldgit]

@ Jay Sata, the purpose of this thread is to alert people to the all party review currently taking place. Whilst it doesn't affect me, I believe the new rules to be discriminatory and will have my say.

If you believe the new rules to be fair and reasonable, then maybe you should say so to the committee, everyone is entitled to their view.

[Jay Sata]

Point taken. I've sent my letter.

[7by7]

Jay Sata,

You are correct when you say that the bulk of the UK population aren't interested in this; simply because it does not effect them.

Most of those that are interested will welcome it as they see it, as you do, preventing immigrants from being a burden upon society.

But both they and you are wrong.

Under the old rules immigrants could not claim public funds, except those based upon NI contributions they had made, until they had ILR. If they had a British spouse or partner then although that spouse or partner could claim any and all public funds to which they were entitled, they could not claim any extra due to their immigrant spouse or partner living with them.

This has not changed.

What has changed is that the old rules looked at the complete financial circumstances of the family when assessing whether or not they could maintain themselves without recourse to public funds whereas the new rules just set a minimum figure which does not take into account the outgoings of the family.

So, for example, a British husband who earns £18599 p.a. with minimal outgoings is now unable to meet the financial requirement and have his foreign wife live with him in the UK.

But a British husband who earns £18600 p.a. and has debt repayments of £5000 p.a. can!

Is that fair?

The Tories made a manifesto commitment to reduce immigration and they see family migration as an easy target; but as family migration accounts for only about 10% of all migration into the UK these measures will have little effect on the total figures!

[Jay Sata]

The whole business of immigration from both the EEC and elsewhere is a very hot political potato in the UK currently. The popular press have focused on the topic almost daily and to be fair there are now cities such as Leicester where the original population are in the minority.

News articles focus on immigrants from India and Africa living entirely on state funds and in housing in London that people who have worked all their life cannot afford.

It's a sad reflection that this has affected genuine people born in the UK who having met a partner elsewhere in the world find they are now not allowed to bring him or her here.

The financial barrier has to be placed somewhere and I feel the current numbers are correct. However as you say borrowing should also be part of the assessment.

Can I just mention that on the other side of the coin us farangs are not granted any rights in Thailand.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Jay Sata

[hotwinter]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

[Jay Sata]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

All of these changes affect people on a personal level. However as a UK taxpayer I'm concerned about funding people who have no ability

to support a lifestyle with an immigrant family who will draw money from the public purse. The numbers quoted by the Border Agency are a minimum to support you and a partner.

I've paid my taxes for over 40 years and like most UK residents I am not prepared to fund newcomers who can not support themselves.

My argument is aimed at the spongers who have entered the UK from Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and are now enjoying a lifestyle

without work while old hard working thrifty people are robbed of their homes to end their days in care.

[Tony M]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

What do you mean by that ? There have been some recent minor changes to the requirements. They might not be any good to you, but if you can explain your problem someone might be able to give some advice based on the new rules.

[7by7]

News articles focus on immigrants from India and Africa living entirely on state funds and in housing in London that people who have worked all their life cannot afford.

What news articles? You must read a different set of papers than I.

What state funds? As I said before, immigrant families and the immigrant family members of a British citizen were not entitled to public funds under the old rules and are not entitled to public funds under the new rules. This includes access to social housing. Nothing has changed there.

.............. as a UK taxpayer I'm concerned about funding people who have no ability

to support a lifestyle with an immigrant family who will draw money from the public purse. The numbers quoted by the Border Agency are a minimum to support you and a partner.

I've paid my taxes for over 40 years and like most UK residents I am not prepared to fund newcomers who can not support themselves.

My argument is aimed at the spongers who have entered the UK from Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and are now enjoying a lifestyle

without work while old hard working thrifty people are robbed of their homes to end their days in care.

Your prejudices are showing again, and, as is usually the case, prejudice is blinding you to the facts.

I repeat: immigrant families and the immigrant family members of a British citizen were not entitled to public funds under the old rules and are not entitled to public funds under the new rules. This includes access to social housing. Nothing has changed there.

This was and is the case for all immigrants from outside the EEA. Whether they came or come from Africa, the Indian sub continent, Thailand, the USA, Australia, anywhere outside the EEA.

When one does see the type of article you refer to in the papers, usually in the more rabid ultra right wing ones such as the Mail and Express, their ire, and yours, is directed at the wrong target.

It is not families who entered the UK under the family immigration rules who receive these benefits; it's asylum seekers.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the UK's asylum policy, and it's too big a subject for this topic, asylum seekers are not effected by these new rules.

Edited January 13, 2013 by 7by7

[hotwinter]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

What do you mean by that ? There have been some recent minor changes to the requirements. They might not be any good to you, but if you can explain your problem someone might be able to give some advice based on the new rules.

my wage vary alot so taking my lowest month (out of 6) x 12 doesnt add up to 18600. i was going to apply in december after earning £12500 in 6 months to find out one of my months was around £20-50 (i cant remember) under the required amount. even tho i earn way over the £18600 a year.

im hoping i can apply next month but if not i will have to wait till the end of may to apply (a full working year). i earn enough, i could of been living here with her next month if it wasnt for this stupid way of working out income. not much i can do but wait it out and keep working

[hotwinter]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

All of these changes affect people on a personal level. However as a UK taxpayer I'm concerned about funding people who have no ability

to support a lifestyle with an immigrant family who will draw money from the public purse. The numbers quoted by the Border Agency are a minimum to support you and a partner.

I've paid my taxes for over 40 years and like most UK residents I am not prepared to fund newcomers who can not support themselves.

My argument is aimed at the spongers who have entered the UK from Africa and the Indian Subcontinent and are now enjoying a lifestyle

without work while old hard working thrifty people are robbed of their homes to end their days in care.

i have no idea why you quoted me and said all this? ive got enough money and without doubt paid plenty of tax lol

[Tony M]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

What do you mean by that ? There have been some recent minor changes to the requirements. They might not be any good to you, but if you can explain your problem someone might be able to give some advice based on the new rules.

my wage vary alot so taking my lowest month (out of 6) x 12 doesnt add up to 18600. i was going to apply in december after earning £12500 in 6 months to find out one of my months was around £20-50 (i cant remember) under the required amount. even tho i earn way over the £18600 a year.

im hoping i can apply next month but if not i will have to wait till the end of may to apply (a full working year). i earn enough, i could of been living here with her next month if it wasnt for this stupid way of working out income. not much i can do but wait it out and keep working

I thought that might be what you meant. If your total annual income in the last 12 months was more than 18,600, then you meet the financial requirement. If you need detailed info, then PM me.

[Lucie]

I am saddened by some of the posts on this thread, by people who seem to be taking a one-size-fits-all attitude to immigration.

Whether or not we agree with the current rate of immigration from within the EU, I think it's worth noting that the UK currently has many people entering the country legally from the EU, and yet here is my case:

I married a Thai man 9 years ago, and we have 2 children. We have always lived in Thailand, but recently I have started to feel that I really have to go home. My husband is quite happy with this plan. BUT we can't. Because I earn 25,000 Baht per month, and not the 77,000 Baht per month that would be necessary to apply for a visa. And in North Devon, where we would live, jobs paying 18,600 pounds a year are thin on the ground, to say the least.

I have a supportive family, who have supported my husband and I on several previous visit visas, and who would support us again, with accommodation and anything else we need until we could afford to move out. But we can't apply for a visa. I am, essentially, being refused the right to live in my own country. Or, to put it another way, being forced to choose between my husband and my country.

I am devastated, so please would all of you who "agree with a curb on any further immigration for those who can't support themselves" please think before you write.

[hotwinter]

i have filled in the questionaire

i really hope it makes a difference to the points i have made, mostly being the way the income is worked out over 6 months, which has affected me

What do you mean by that ? There have been some recent minor changes to the requirements. They might not be any good to you, but if you can explain your problem someone might be able to give some advice based on the new rules.

my wage vary alot so taking my lowest month (out of 6) x 12 doesnt add up to 18600. i was going to apply in december after earning £12500 in 6 months to find out one of my months was around £20-50 (i cant remember) under the required amount. even tho i earn way over the £18600 a year.

im hoping i can apply next month but if not i will have to wait till the end of may to apply (a full working year). i earn enough, i could of been living here with her next month if it wasnt for this stupid way of working out income. not much i can do but wait it out and keep working

I thought that might be what you meant. If your total annual income in the last 12 months was more than 18,600, then you meet the financial requirement. If you need detailed info, then PM me.

hi mate, thank you but i have not been in my job for 12 months yet. i started back at work in the UK in may. so i can only put in the last six months currently under the current rules. fingers crossed i will have 6 months worth that meet the requirements at the end of this month

[Tony M]

I am saddened by some of the posts on this thread, by people who seem to be taking a one-size-fits-all attitude to immigration.

Whether or not we agree with the current rate of immigration from within the EU, I think it's worth noting that the UK currently has many people entering the country legally from the EU, and yet here is my case:

I married a Thai man 9 years ago, and we have 2 children. We have always lived in Thailand, but recently I have started to feel that I really have to go home. My husband is quite happy with this plan. BUT we can't. Because I earn 25,000 Baht per month, and not the 77,000 Baht per month that would be necessary to apply for a visa. And in North Devon, where we would live, jobs paying 18,600 pounds a year are thin on the ground, to say the least.

I have a supportive family, who have supported my husband and I on several previous visit visas, and who would support us again, with accommodation and anything else we need until we could afford to move out. But we can't apply for a visa. I am, essentially, being refused the right to live in my own country. Or, to put it another way, being forced to choose between my husband and my country.

I am devastated, so please would all of you who "agree with a curb on any further immigration for those who can't support themselves" please think before you write.

I'm sorry to hear that, Lucie. I do hope that you have completed the online questionnaire to make your views known.

[theoldgit]

I am saddened by some of the posts on this thread, by people who seem to be taking a one-size-fits-all attitude to immigration.

I agree Lucie, but that's exactly what the UKBA are doing with these new rules.

I urge you to do what Tony M suggests and to make your views known via the online questionnaire, if you haven't done so already.

[billd766]

I have just signed the petition and submitted the written questioaire as well.

[bobrussell]

The government have little control over EU immigration. They can control (by draconian means) family migration from outside the EU.

The general public don't see any difference between immigrants, full stop.

Sadly the numbers that will be controlled by the income requirement changes will be small whilst the impact on individual British Citizens can be massive!

[theoldgit]

As usual the government of the day goes for the easy targets which gives the appearance, to the Great British Public, that the issue is being addressed.

The government don't care care about the Brits that are affected by the rules in the full knowledge that the electorate care even less.

[kateharper]

Thank you to "Tony M" for posting this thread. I wouldn't have known about this parliamentary review if i hadn't have checked on here, thanks to Thai Visa!

I am currently right in the midst of these new, may i say, ridiculous, settlement visa rules. I am married to a Thai man, we've been married a year and together 4 and a half! I was living in Thailand for 7 years before we decided to make the move back to the UK. Well what we thought would be a fairly simple procedure, as we'd applied for a tourist visa before turned out to be a nightmare! We literally applied just after the new rules were put into place. We don't meet the financial requirements as i was working in Thailand as an ESL teacher, i was going to move back to the UK to get a job, hopefully earning the required 18,600 a yr! Then i found out i was pregnant! So we were really stuck! I could no longer move back and look for work, we couldn't get the 60,000 pounds in savings together either, surprise!

We then had to go to a lawyer and ask for help/advice. We applied and are currently waiting for the decision to be delivered to my husband back in Thailand. I am in England now, as we both decided that the baby would be better off being born in the UK. We are expecting a "No" and will appeal with our lawyers asap, I'm due 26th March!

Has anyone been in this similar situation? Has anyone successfully appealed a visa since the new rules were introduced??

Lucie - I feel your sadness and totally empathize! It's a disgrace that we are forced to make that decision for simple falling in love with someone outside of the EU.

JaySata - I am also saddened by your views, but you are entitled to them, however the "spongers" you are talking of are not included in family visit or settlement visas. As 7by7 said, family members and spouses are not entitled to benefits anyway! That is not why my husband wants to come here!!!! He wants to come and support his family and start a new , working, life in the UK because that is where our family are! He is a skilled artist and would find work no problem, he just isn't being given a chance!!!

Thanks (sorry for the rant)

Kate Varewdee

[Tony M]

Kate, do you mean that you applied for a settlement visa knowing, or believing that it would be refused ? Surely that is an expensive exercise ?

You say that you used a lawyer. Is that a lawyer in Thailand or in UK ? Is he an immigration lawyer ? Did he advise you to apply, even though you knew thae application would probably be refused, or did you decide to do that ?

I think most people here would agree that the current requirements are discriminatory in various ways, and that they need amending ( or rescinding). I certainly hope that all goes well for you.

What date did you apply ? Decisions are coming thorugh today on applications made on 25th and 26th October last year.

[kateharper]

Yes we did, in order to appeal the decision we had to apply initially. I was weary at first but my parents were in contact with Kings Chambers lawyers who advised us on the best way to go about getting my husband a visa.

They are based in the UK and plan to hire a big shot immigration QC, i forget his name, to appeal the case. The lawyers did say there was "a slight" chance that we could get it first time around, but we're not getting our hopes up.

Thanks for your kind words, we are in for a crazy few months think.Thanks also for bringing attention to the Parliamentary review, it looks very promising. I sent out my evidence today. Here's hoping we get somewhere!

We applied on the 16th October, i got an e-mail through on Monday saying they had looked into it (as they had gone over the 12 weeks) and found the decision has been made, my husband is on stand by in Thailand waiting for his passport now.

[Lucie]

Thanks for the words of support from several people. Kate, I hope that your husband can at least get a visit visa to be present for the birth of his child! Good luck, and please let us know what happens with your appeal.

I have signed the petition, and have already got a lot of friends to sign it. Actually, I have been surprised by how many UK residents, who are unaffected by these rules, have voiced not just their support for the petition, but their outrage at the rules.

Here's the link again to the petition for anyone who hasn't yet signed. Please do so even if you are not affected!

http://www.change.org/petitions/theresa-may-new-uk-immigration-laws-are-tearing-families-apart-change-them-now

Thanks all!