Cars Bring Bangkok To Standstill

[NoshowJones]

I actually saw an articulated truck driver use his indicators today, I was riding behind on my motorbike when I made this very unusual sighting. Is it possible it wasn't a Thai who was driving this truck?

The articulated truck drivers are usually the most professional drivers on the road in my opinion. I assume you mean the petrol tanker, container truck drivers. Trucks pulling trailers are a different story.

They are indeed, in the UK anyway, I was one. But not in Thailand. A lot of them are drugged up to stay awake, another thing, look at the inside lane on many Thai highways, some of them are in a dreadful state because of overladen trucks, what is professional about these "drivers"? No, if you are looking at professional truckers, don't look in Thailand.

[BrianCR]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Never mind the good side of Thai driving - what about the bad!!

[BrianCR]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

You believe that? This is Thailand mate, 100 baht and you';ve got the right number!!

[chiangmaikelly]

Two schools of thought as I see it. Those who think it is a bad idea but have not a clue why and have minimal advanced education and none in any form of formal economics and those who think it is a good idea who have PhD's in economics and many years of experience in Asian economics.

I have explained to you on many occasions, on various threads on this topic, why i think the idea was ill-conceived and badly thought out, and every time i do, you respond with something that complete ignores those issues, and instead you just repeat your mantra: the intention was to sell more cars, more cars have been sold, it worked!, everyone's a winner, case-closed type celebratory proclamations, that would i'm sure make government spokespeople beam with pride.

Anyway, for the last time of repeating, here are a few of my concerns:

1) Small Japanese cars already sell like hot cakes here, and it is quite possible that when looking at the bigger picture in a few years time, the same number of cars will have been sold as would have without the scheme, just that there will be a big spike last year and a dip that begins later on this year when the scheme ends. And for the sake of having that spike, millions of baht in lost tax revenue. Are we really sure these cars didn't already have customers in the wings, that have simply opened their cheque books a few months earlier than they otherwise would have done?

2) Why not help create a new market for an industry that needs help? And if not, if the government is so set on the motoring sector, why not a product that really pushes forward the green issue. For example, rather than setting a maximum limit for engine size at 1.5l, why not set a limit for minimum mpl that helps speed up into the market a new greener product, not the same old products that need no help being sold? Or if the limit is to do with engine size, why not make it a bit more radical - 1.2 or 1.0l for example? Less number of cars sold, perhaps yes, but smaller greener cars that may not have otherwise found custom.

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

4) The stipulation of it being the person's first car was largely a complete waste of time, as it was easily abused simply by putting the car in the name of an old aunt who couldn't drive and had never bought a car.

The scheme should have been restricted in a different way, perhaps in a way that excludes the wealthy and that rewards the working classes. I'm not sure how this could be done, but what i do know is, from many people in my area, the first car stipulation really was a waste of time, and all it has meant is that now thousands of people are driving around in new cars that they are paying for, but that don't belong to them, rather some distant relative.

I don't think the scheme was all bad, and i give the government credit for at the very least, sticking to a pre-election promise, even if the entire premise of the pre-election promise was simply to win votes, but i can see problems and flaws, and i think with a bit more forethought, a much better scheme could have been devised. That's all i'm saying.

1. Would cars have sold without the scheme? Who cares. You'll never prove it one way or the other. Useless to discuss.

2. The green issue is for wackadoodle Western types. This is Asia. Green does not sell in Asia with the exception of Australia and Japan and I'm not really sure about Japan. At any rate no matter how much you jump up and down you will not fit Thailand into an Australian mold.

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

4. Thais don't care. So why even discuss it. It sounds like a personal problem. Get with the program.

The absolutely only reason I post about this issue at all is to drive home the point that most negative posts here have nothing to do with reality. You make an attempt and I would not classify your post as one of the insulting generalizations meant only to degrade the Thai people and government. Although I really don't see what it has to do with the OP. You seem to want to debate the first buyer incentive program rather than the OP which is “Cars bring Bangkok to a standstill.” The first buyer program is over. What's the point?

[culicine]

One problem here is that a car is very often more highly regarded than a house or condo. This is why people have repayments on a car that can be up to 90% of their income. They live with relatives & probably have their food & utilities paid for.

It's the opposite attitude to the so-called advanced countries: car first, house second rather than house first & car second.

It's all about face. They can show off their ride to their friends, but most often the friends won't visit their house. Our school car park is full of new cars owned by Thai teacher; the repayments much be equivalent to or more that their monthly salaries. Incredible. Mine was about 1/10 of our family income, paid off 4 years ago.

[chiangmaikelly]

One problem here is that a car is very often more highly regarded than a house or condo. This is why people have repayments on a car that can be up to 90% of their income. They live with relatives & probably have their food & utilities paid for.

It's the opposite attitude to the so-called advanced countries: car first, house second rather than house first & car second.

It's all about face. They can show off their ride to their friends, but most often the friends won't visit their house. Our school car park is full of new cars owned by Thai teacher; the repayments much be equivalent to or more that their monthly salaries. Incredible. Mine was about 1/10 of our family income, paid off 4 years ago.

If a teacher can borrow money at 1% how much can he loan it out at?

[wprime]

Not bad, 45 years old and our PM can still stop traffic!

[LaoPo]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

You believe that? This is Thailand mate, 100 baht and you';ve got the right number!!

Oh yes, it's the ONLY way out of this huge misery and it's not exactly science; it's done in many places around the world.

Wait until it takes 5 hours to reach work for Government officials...than they will start thinking

[MESmith]

I actually saw an articulated truck driver use his indicators today, I was riding behind on my motorbike when I made this very unusual sighting. Is it possible it wasn't a Thai who was driving this truck?

The articulated truck drivers are usually the most professional drivers on the road in my opinion. I assume you mean the petrol tanker, container truck drivers. Trucks pulling trailers are a different story.

They are indeed, in the UK anyway, I was one. But not in Thailand. A lot of them are drugged up to stay awake, another thing, look at the inside lane on many Thai highways, some of them are in a dreadful state because of overladen trucks, what is professional about these "drivers"? No, if you are looking at professional truckers, don't look in Thailand.

I was talking about the articulated truck drivers. They seem to me to be a lot more professional than the other idiots driving the overladen, speeding, manic trucks you see everywhere here.. Seen a few idiots driving trucks in UK. Obviously you wouldn't have

[sunshine51]

Traffic problems in BKK??? What traffic problems....?

2013 models out now!

Edited January 10, 2013 by sunshine51

[rixalex]

1) Small Japanese cars already sell like hot cakes here, and it is quite possible that when looking at the bigger picture in a few years time, the same number of cars will have been sold as would have without the scheme, just that there will be a big spike last year and a dip that begins later on this year when the scheme ends. And for the sake of having that spike, millions of baht in lost tax revenue. Are we really sure these cars didn't already have customers in the wings, that have simply opened their cheque books a few months earlier than they otherwise would have done?

1. Would cars have sold without the scheme? Who cares. You'll never prove it one way or the other. Useless to discuss.

Is this the opinion of a Phd in Economics? Can't be proven, end of discussion? What a ridiculous thing to say. Economics is all about that that can't be proven, but about balances of probabilities.

Nobody can prove that the upturn in car sales during this scheme was because of the scheme, but on the balance of probabilities, it is highly likely that it was. And likewise, if looking at the number of small Japanese cars that were sold from 2008 to 2010, and those sold from 2011 to 2013, shows little change, on the balance of probabilities, it probably means that the effect of the scheme was overall to have sold the same number of cars, but with a peak during the scheme and then a dip.. or to put it another way, no real benefit and a massive loss of tax revenue to boot.

[rixalex]

2) Why not help create a new market for an industry that needs help? And if not, if the government is so set on the motoring sector, why not a product that really pushes forward the green issue. For example, rather than setting a maximum limit for engine size at 1.5l, why not set a limit for minimum mpl that helps speed up into the market a new greener product, not the same old products that need no help being sold? Or if the limit is to do with engine size, why not make it a bit more radical - 1.2 or 1.0l for example? Less number of cars sold, perhaps yes, but smaller greener cars that may not have otherwise found custom.

2. The green issue is for wackadoodle Western types. This is Asia. Green does not sell in Asia with the exception of Australia and Japan and I'm not really sure about Japan. At any rate no matter how much you jump up and down you will not fit Thailand into an Australian mold.

The great thing about slashing 100,000 baht off the price of a car is you no longer have to sell benefits like how green the car is. The massive discount takes care of that. Plus of course, being green and buying a fuel efficient car, not only has benefits for the environment, it has benefits for your wallet at the pump station, and if you have noticed how many LPG/CNG gas converted cars there are about, you would know that Thais love saving money at the pumps as much as the rest of the world does. No jumping and down needed to sell green cars, just perhaps a bit of exposure and promotion to turn people on to the benefits.... 100,000 baht saving would easily do that.

[rixalex]

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true... but however the payment is made, my point was that by configuring the scheme this way, it did nothing to help those who could afford a 500k car, but who couldn't afford a 600k car. It helped those who could of afforded the car at the full price. If the Democrats had come up with this scheme, we would be hearing all about how they were as usual just helping the middle classes.

[rixalex]

4) The stipulation of it being the person's first car was largely a complete waste of time, as it was easily abused simply by putting the car in the name of an old aunt who couldn't drive and had never bought a car.

The scheme should have been restricted in a different way, perhaps in a way that excludes the wealthy and that rewards the working classes. I'm not sure how this could be done, but what i do know is, from many people in my area, the first car stipulation really was a waste of time, and all it has meant is that now thousands of people are driving around in new cars that they are paying for, but that don't belong to them, rather some distant relative.

I don't think the scheme was all bad, and i give the government credit for at the very least, sticking to a pre-election promise, even if the entire premise of the pre-election promise was simply to win votes, but i can see problems and flaws, and i think with a bit more forethought, a much better scheme could have been devised. That's all i'm saying.

4. Thais don't care. So why even discuss it. It sounds like a personal problem. Get with the program.

I was pointing out a flaw. Thais don't care is not an argument against that flaw... at least not a rationale or an educated argument.

As for me having a personal problem, no, not at all, i don't think this was by any means the worst scheme a government has ever come up with, and as i say, i applaud the government for having delivered on a promise. It's just that i think the scheme was far from perfect, and i have given careful explanations as to why. Your inability to accept any criticism whatsoever of this scheme and to defend it at every turn, leads me to believe you are in some way invested, emotionally or otherwise, in either the policy or the government... or perhaps both.

[Keesters]

Self inflicted. Can't blame anybody but themselves.

[rubl]

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true... but however the payment is made, my point was that by configuring the scheme this way, it did nothing to help those who could afford a 500k car, but who couldn't afford a 600k car. It helped those who could of afforded the car at the full price. If the Democrats had come up with this scheme, we would be hearing all about how they were as usual just helping the middle classes.

Too lazy to search again, but in October/November 2012 the first refund was made with more than THB 3 million to 47 people. Big show, etc. That really suggests a full refund as the maximum per car is 100,000

(edit: obviously 2011 was the wrong year, corrected to 2012)

Edited January 11, 2013 by rubl

[NoshowJones]

I actually saw an articulated truck driver use his indicators today, I was riding behind on my motorbike when I made this very unusual sighting. Is it possible it wasn't a Thai who was driving this truck?

The articulated truck drivers are usually the most professional drivers on the road in my opinion. I assume you mean the petrol tanker, container truck drivers. Trucks pulling trailers are a different story.

They are indeed, in the UK anyway, I was one. But not in Thailand. A lot of them are drugged up to stay awake, another thing, look at the inside lane on many Thai highways, some of them are in a dreadful state because of overladen trucks, what is professional about these "drivers"? No, if you are looking at professional truckers, don't look in Thailand.

I was talking about the articulated truck drivers. They seem to me to be a lot more professional than the other idiots driving the overladen, speeding, manic trucks you see everywhere here.. Seen a few idiots driving trucks in UK. Obviously you wouldn't have

So you don't want any PMs from me, what's your problem? As it happens, I tried to send you a nice civilised one, but if that's the way you feel about it. You know what you can do.

[chiangmaikelly]

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true... but however the payment is made, my point was that by configuring the scheme this way, it did nothing to help those who could afford a 500k car, but who couldn't afford a 600k car. It helped those who could of afforded the car at the full price. If the Democrats had come up with this scheme, we would be hearing all about how they were as usual just helping the middle classes.

Too lazy to search again, but in October/November 2012 the first refund was made with more than THB 3 million to 47 people. Big show, etc. That really suggests a full refund as the maximum per car is 100,000

(edit: obviously 2011 was the wrong year, corrected to 2012)

3 mil divided by 47 is not 100,000

[rubl]

3. I don't think the rebate is paid 100% after one year.

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true... but however the payment is made, my point was that by configuring the scheme this way, it did nothing to help those who could afford a 500k car, but who couldn't afford a 600k car. It helped those who could of afforded the car at the full price. If the Democrats had come up with this scheme, we would be hearing all about how they were as usual just helping the middle classes.

Too lazy to search again, but in October/November 2012 the first refund was made with more than THB 3 million to 47 people. Big show, etc. That really suggests a full refund as the maximum per car is 100,000

(edit: obviously 2011 was the wrong year, corrected to 2012)

3 mil divided by 47 is not 100,000

Bravo, old chap, you can count, but can you read and understand? I indicated that with a maximum rebate of 100,000 (depending on car type and value) and 47 people receiving THB 3.57 million, there is the suggestion that the rebate is paid in full.

Furthermore a long time ago, like on the 29th of December, 2012 I posted a link on this in a related topic. A topic btw where we also had a discussion.

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5972450

Next I assume you'd like to know the exact amount each of the 47 people received, the bank which transfers the money into accounts, the dates that's done and whether rain may cause delay?

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

[DaveHKT]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

This system used to be followed in Lagos, Nigeria when I was there many years ago. No problem for me, the company simply allocated me 2cars/drivers so I could travel downtown every day.

[chiangmaikelly]

I have heard rumours about people who bought on finance having the rebate paid in instalments but everyone i know who has taken advantage of this scheme, has been paid in one lump sum, and they all bought of finance, so i don't know whether it is true... but however the payment is made, my point was that by configuring the scheme this way, it did nothing to help those who could afford a 500k car, but who couldn't afford a 600k car. It helped those who could of afforded the car at the full price. If the Democrats had come up with this scheme, we would be hearing all about how they were as usual just helping the middle classes.

Too lazy to search again, but in October/November 2012 the first refund was made with more than THB 3 million to 47 people. Big show, etc. That really suggests a full refund as the maximum per car is 100,000

(edit: obviously 2011 was the wrong year, corrected to 2012)

3 mil divided by 47 is not 100,000

Bravo, old chap, you can count, but can you read and understand? I indicated that with a maximum rebate of 100,000 (depending on car type and value) and 47 people receiving THB 3.57 million, there is the suggestion that the rebate is paid in full.

Furthermore a long time ago, like on the 29th of December, 2012 I posted a link on this in a related topic. A topic btw where we also had a discussion.

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5972450

Next I assume you'd like to know the exact amount each of the 47 people received, the bank which transfers the money into accounts, the dates that's done and whether rain may cause delay?

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

I really appreciate all that I really do. Is there anything in all those links an threads that actually says all the people get paid 100% of the rebate all at one time after the first year if the car is financed?

[rubl]

Too lazy to search again, but in October/November 2012 the first refund was made with more than THB 3 million to 47 people. Big show, etc. That really suggests a full refund as the maximum per car is 100,000

(edit: obviously 2011 was the wrong year, corrected to 2012)

3 mil divided by 47 is not 100,000

Bravo, old chap, you can count, but can you read and understand? I indicated that with a maximum rebate of 100,000 (depending on car type and value) and 47 people receiving THB 3.57 million, there is the suggestion that the rebate is paid in full.

Furthermore a long time ago, like on the 29th of December, 2012 I posted a link on this in a related topic. A topic btw where we also had a discussion.

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5972450

Next I assume you'd like to know the exact amount each of the 47 people received, the bank which transfers the money into accounts, the dates that's done and whether rain may cause delay?

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

I really appreciate all that I really do. Is there anything in all those links an threads that actually says all the people get paid 100% of the rebate all at one time after the first year if the car is financed?

If I read for you and tell you, will you believe me? Don't think so. May I suggest you go to the source, mind you most in Thai only I'm afraid

http://www.excise.go.th/index.php?id=1&L=1

http://firstcar.excise.go.th/

On the other hand, just applying some common sense and logic, one might say that with 47 people receiving 3.57m or nearly 76k each with 100k a maximum, the probability of each having received the full rebate of what they were entitled to is approaching 1 (on a scale from 0 to 1) with the probability of reaching the wrong conclusion about 0.025 (using the common t-distribution statistical method, that is).

[planr]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

This system used to be followed in Lagos, Nigeria when I was there many years ago. No problem for me, the company simply allocated me 2cars/drivers so I could travel downtown every day.

This system is widely regarded as a failure in just about every city in the world that has tried it, for the very reason DaveHKT mentions. Many people will just go out and buy a new car to get around it.

[chiangmaikelly]

3 mil divided by 47 is not 100,000

Bravo, old chap, you can count, but can you read and understand? I indicated that with a maximum rebate of 100,000 (depending on car type and value) and 47 people receiving THB 3.57 million, there is the suggestion that the rebate is paid in full.

Furthermore a long time ago, like on the 29th of December, 2012 I posted a link on this in a related topic. A topic btw where we also had a discussion.

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5972450

Next I assume you'd like to know the exact amount each of the 47 people received, the bank which transfers the money into accounts, the dates that's done and whether rain may cause delay?

http://www.thaivisa....cheme-thailand/

I really appreciate all that I really do. Is there anything in all those links an threads that actually says all the people get paid 100% of the rebate all at one time after the first year if the car is financed?

If I read for you and tell you, will you believe me? Don't think so. May I suggest you go to the source, mind you most in Thai only I'm afraid

http://www.excise.go...ex.php?id=1&L=1

http://firstcar.excise.go.th/

On the other hand, just applying some common sense and logic, one might say that with 47 people receiving 3.57m or nearly 76k each with 100k a maximum, the probability of each having received the full rebate of what they were entitled to is approaching 1 (on a scale from 0 to 1) with the probability of reaching the wrong conclusion about 0.025 (using the common t-distribution statistical method, that is).

My wife's sister is a government officer and she says they pay it in installments. I have seen nothing that would lead me to disbelieve her. Just one person who's wife has received 100% to come on Thai Visa and say they have received 100% on a financed auto would cause me to call my sister in law and question her again.

[bigbamboo]

Couldn't Yingluck ask her policeman brother's advice about his traffic control theory?

[rixalex]

My wife's sister is a government officer and she says they pay it in installments. I have seen nothing that would lead me to disbelieve her. Just one person who's wife has received 100% to come on Thai Visa and say they have received 100% on a financed auto would cause me to call my sister in law and question her again.

i know of three people, all bought on finance. The third one received the lump sum of 64,000 baht just last week for their Nissan March. And by the way, none of them have used, or intend to use, this money to repay their loans. Another flaw of the scheme. Why not devise the scheme so that those who do have outstanding loans on the car, be made to use the tax rebate to pay back some of the money owed?

[bkkjames]

Maybe they can bring back an ex gov to fix sister's mess in only 6 months?

[LaoPo]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

This system used to be followed in Lagos, Nigeria when I was there many years ago. No problem for me, the company simply allocated me 2cars/drivers so I could travel downtown every day.

This system is widely regarded as a failure in just about every city in the world that has tried it, for the very reason DaveHKT mentions. Many people will just go out and buy a new car to get around it.

I'm quite interested in the details about your claim that ODD & EVEN is "widely regarded as a failure" since in the cities where it is implemented in China it's a success. I don't know about other countries.

In China, buying cars is limited per household and there is no other way to cope with the immense problem.

Mega cities like Bangkok or the ones elsewhere grew so fast that they didn't expect car ownership to grow so fast as well.

The problems for parking are also huge so the only way out is a strict limitation of the NUMBERS OF CARS ON THE ROADS, combined with other steps for parking and limited ownership per household.

Of course there are always ways out for people with money but the majority can't afford a second or third car.

One of my bets investing, making money, would be investing (via shares) in parking garages in mega cities in Asia.

Edited January 11, 2013 by LaoPo

[ALFREDO]

The interesting thing is that the dealers don't actually ask if people have a license. To get a gun you need plenty of licenses, but a car none. I wonder what Toyota or Honda head office would make of a press story that they are selling cars to people without licenses and thus void insurance.

Purchasing and owning a car and driving a car has to be the same person, why?

How, rich people make that than, who have chauffeurs-drivers?

I think, a lot of Thai wives and GF's of Falangs and Expats could not purchase a car than with their spouses money!

Most have no driver license!

My GF has none, but a car since 6 years and she never drives herself! So, no problem!

(Ex GF since 10 years and no license!)

My, I think civilized Western country, -Austria-, has no problem with it, when you buy a car and register it in your name.

Regardless if you have a driving license or not!

Must the "Company XXXX Ltd." who buys and registers a car in her name, also drive the car?

Would be impossible anyway!

Regarding insurance, not the owner is insured, but the car and the owner has to take care, that only drivers with a licence use the car!

PS: The 31.12.2012 is the deadline, for the "Tax payback"-after a year, deal, to order a car, as far as I understand.

The possible delivery date of the car, can be late as March 2013!

No new orders for that scheme can be made anymore!

Edited January 11, 2013 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help.

What i do know is, from many people in my area, the first car stipulation really was a waste of time, and all it has meant is that now thousands of people are driving around in new cars that they are paying for, but that don't belong to them, rather some distant relative.

True, is that many used that scheme only to get a new car, got rid of the old car and a trustworthy "front man=woman" who fit the provisions,

is now the presented owner.

Bill or monthly installments paid by the "old" car owner.

500.000 or 600.000 Baht, for a car, why? You can go a step lower. Why need a Jazz?

Installments started with a first payment of 15 % 60.000 Baht and car prices start with 380.000 - 430.000 Baht for "Eco cars, with small engines"

E-20 Gasoline.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ALFREDO