Help: Time To Buy A New Laptop

[vagabond48]

I have a Dell Latitude that I bought over 5 years ago back in the states. It has served me well but over the last 2 couple of years, it has been getting slower and slower. Even if I find a fixable problem, I think it is time to relegate my PC to backup position and buy myself a new one. In CM, I went to the local computer center, and was surprised to see the different memory and graphic options that are now available so I hope I can get some useful advice from the experts here.

I use the computer primarily to browser the internet. I use FF and usually have 5 to 10 open tabs as well as 4 to 8 apps running.

I am not a patient man so I want very fast (not lightning) processing power.

I listen to quality music so I want great audio digital interpretation by the PC.

I watch movies that I download. I may want to connect the laptop to a future LCD TV as well.

Of course, I do the normal computing stuff.

I am currently using XP Pro. Should I stick to W7 or go to W8? I have never used Linux so I don't know if I am ready for it. I also countless Gs of music and financial records on disk and backup on dvd and don't know if I would have problem reading them on Linux? I do like the idea of not using windows just as I avoided using IE and used Netscape up to FF.

Thanks

[Fookhaht]

"I use the computer primarily to browser the internet. I use FF and usually have 5 to 10 open tabs as well as 4 to 8 apps running.

I am not a patient man so I want very fast (not lightning) processing power.

I listen to quality music so I want great audio digital interpretation by the PC.

I watch movies that I download. I may want to connect the laptop to a future LCD TV as well.

Of course, I do the normal computing stuff."

Hmmmm. You're describing exactly what an Apple Mac computer does best--without all the virus/malware stuff that eventually slows down most PC's.

After using PC's since 1982, I finally bit the bullet (price) and sprang for a MacBookPro three months ago. Best decision of my computing life. I can have 6 or7 applications running, tons of windows open, cinematic-quality music playing on external speakers, and not detect a millisecond of pause in the operation of my laptop. With two monitors and a full-sized wireless keyboard, it more than adequately doubles as my desktop PC when I'm in my home office.

The learning curve for learning a new operating system is pretty fast, as Apple provides a myriad of transition tools from the PC environment (clever marketing, of course). I must admit that the every thing new I've had to learn turns out to be more user-friendly than the PC environment (use of mouse, trackpad, keyboard shortcuts, the way the software responds, etc.). Whatever you plug into it (external hard drive, monitor, almost any USB device) it "just works." No setup hassle.

Apple has just thought out everything so much better from the user's standpoint. For the first time in 31 years of computing, I feel like I am controlling my computing environment, not the other way around.

An absolute dream.

[This advertisement in no way sponsored by Apple Corporation nor its subsidiaries.]

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[NeverSure]

IMHO not matter the CPU speed, RAM rules. IOW, without gobs of ram, no processor will be fast with what you describe doing. I'm doing all you're doing with 8 gigs, no problem. With 4 I noticed a lag.

No advice on the OS. I have Win8 and I hate it. Maybe I'm just used to 7. 8 is on the back burner and I'm using 7 now.

Others will tell you where best to shop.

[Fookhaht]

IMHO not matter the CPU speed, RAM rules. IOW, without gobs of ram, no processor will be fast with what you describe doing. I'm doing all you're doing with 8 gigs, no problem. With 4 I noticed a lag.

No advice on the OS. I have Win8 and I hate it. Maybe I'm just used to 7. 8 is on the back burner and I'm using 7 now.

Others will tell you where best to shop.

I'm doing all that on the MAC with 4 gigs, and no lag. I think it has something to do with the quad-core processor.

[NeverSure]

"I use the computer primarily to browser the internet. I use FF and usually have 5 to 10 open tabs as well as 4 to 8 apps running.

I am not a patient man so I want very fast (not lightning) processing power.

I listen to quality music so I want great audio digital interpretation by the PC.

I watch movies that I download. I may want to connect the laptop to a future LCD TV as well.

Of course, I do the normal computing stuff."

Hmmmm. You're describing exactly what an Apple Mac computer does best--without all the virus/malware stuff that eventually slows down most PC's.

After using PC's since 1982, I finally bit the bullet (price) and sprang for a MacBookPro three months ago. Best decision of my computing life. I can have 6 or7 applications running, tons of windows open, cinematic-quality music playing on external speakers, and not detect a millisecond of pause in the operation of my laptop. With two monitors and a full-sized wireless keyboard, it more than adequately doubles as my desktop PC when I'm in my home office.

The learning curve for learning a new operating system is pretty fast, as Apple provides a myriad of transition tools from the PC environment (clever marketing, of course). I must admit that the every thing new I've had to learn turns out to be more user-friendly than the PC environment (use of mouse, trackpad, keyboard shortcuts, the way the software responds, etc.).

Apple has just thought out everything so much better from the user's standpoint.

An absolute dream.

[This advertisement in no way sponsored by Apple Corporation nor its subsidiaries.]

You probably finally got enough memory. The slowing down of Windows is a myth. That happens only to people who don't use Windows Defender, a good antivirus program and an anti-spyware program all of which are free. Windows is simply targeted by more malware writers because it has the vast majority of the market.

You just paid a ton of money for an operating system that was first introduced in 1969 as Unix. Your hardware is probably Intel based just like a PC. There is nothing "quality" or special about the box itself that can't be had with Windows.

[Fookhaht]

The slowing down of Windows is a myth. That happens only to people who don't use Windows Defender, a good antivirus program and an anti-spyware program all of which are free.

I endured "the myth" for 31 years, using safe computing practices, using more anti-virus programs than I can remember, and doing the obligatory "hard-drive reformat" every 6 to 12 months (thereby losing countless workdays in the process, and always losing some critical program-related data on "C' drive that was left out of the back-up.).

With all the alleged "same hardware" and a more contemporary O/S, it's a shame that no PC or O/S manufacturer has been able to take the PC to the "next level" as Apple has, huh?

Windows is simply targeted by more malware writers because it has the vast majority of the market.

Extricating myself out of this "loop" has been worth every baht spent.

P.S. Suppose this is the first PC vs. Apple debate which has ever erupted on TV? Perhaps my 4gb is not enough memory to download the threads. . . .

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[NeverSure]

The slowing down of Windows is a myth. That happens only to people who don't use Windows Defender, a good antivirus program and an anti-spyware program all of which are free.

I endured "the myth" for 31 years, using safe computing practices, using more anti-virus programs than I can remember, and doing the obligatory "hard-drive reformat" every 6 to 12 months (thereby losing countless workdays in the process, and always losing some critical program-related data on "C' drive that was left out of the back-up.).

Windows is simply targeted by more malware writers because it has the vast majority of the market.

Extricating myself out of this "loop" has been worth every baht spent.

I'm running Win7 on this machine and have been for 2 years. Nothing has slowed down. There is also malware written for Mac but not nearly the protections are available against it. If something got seriously bad, I'd use an image I made about a year ago, and then install last night's backups. It would all take less than 30 minutes.

No one formats a hard disk and starts all over any more. Maybe they did years ago, but now Windows will make an image with a scheduler. It will also make one manually to any drive or share you wish. It takes about 15 minutes per 100 gig of data to image a HDD. All that's needed is the %system% drive, often the C: drive. I have last night's image, and a year old image, both on separate physical hard disks. Of course they have all of the drivers, my favorite proggies - a complete image of the functioning drive.

[HardenedSoul]

I'd absolutely love to buy a Mac. They're gorgeous, powerful and, by most accounts, reliable. But would I buy one in Thailand? Hell no.

No official Apple store; just a bunch of shifty resellers the quality of service from whom has been described by many as "abysmal".

If your Mac goes wrong, do you really want to traipse to a reseller, risk being the subject of an arbitrary verdict on whether or not your problem is covered by your warranty and then, if it's an issue that needs major parts, have to wait weeks until it's returned. What if you rely on that Mac for work or entertainment? Major inconvenience.

Better, I think, to go back to Dell. If it goes wrong, you call support and depending on the warranty you opt for, they send a techie with brand new parts to your door within a couple of days. No bullshit.

[Fookhaht]

No one formats a hard disk and starts all over any more. Maybe they did years ago, but now Windows will make an image with a scheduler. It will also make one manually to any drive or share you wish. It takes about 15 minutes per 100 gig of data to image a HDD. All that's needed is the %system% drive, often the C: drive. I have last night's image, and a year old image, both on separate physical hard disks. Of course they have all of the drivers, my favorite proggies - a complete image of the functioning drive.

Hmmm. You're describing Apple's "Time Machine" but without all time loss and fuss.

[Fookhaht]

I'd absolutely love to buy a Mac. They're gorgeous, powerful and, by most accounts, reliable. But would I buy one in Thailand? Hell no.

No official Apple store; just a bunch of shifty resellers the quality of service from whom has been described by many as "abysmal".

If your Mac goes wrong, do you really want to traipse to a reseller, risk being the subject of an arbitrary verdict on whether or not your problem is covered by your warranty and then, if it's an issue that needs major parts, have to wait weeks until it's returned. What if you rely on that Mac for work or entertainment? Major inconvenience.

Better, I think, to go back to Dell. If it goes wrong, you call support and depending on the warranty you opt for, they send a techie with brand new parts to your door within a couple of days. No bullshit.

The first four years in Thailand I had a new Dell. The cover/monitor literally fell off the thing one day when I opened it, with the hinge cracking off and the wires pulling out of the laptop body. I waited for months for help while Dell batted me from one dealer and shop to another. It was my primary work computer and I was exasperated. I finally gave up and junked the thing.

In contrast, I took the Mac to an authorized dealer for the inability to connect with our university wifi (turned out it was a problem with the router), and while I waited at the shop they called an Apple technician to come directly to the shop and analyze the problem. I was out in just over an hour. Later, I found out that I didn't have to do that. They gave me the technician's phone number, and said just have him come directly to my office instead for an initial assessment of any problem. This isn't a BKK experience (hub of all Thai technology). I live upcountry.

In the three months I've had my Mac, the service already trumps my experience with Dell.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[NeverSure]

Apple's quality dwindling: My MacBook Pro sob story

OS 10.5 - Mac OS Leopard is running slow... (Mac Forums) "or at least much much slower than when i first used the machine.

is there anything i can do to fix this? like when i used to defrag in windows or something like that?

nowadays i usually boot up in windows xp because it runs at warp speed on my mac.

...seriously i never thought id want to go back to windows, but its happening!"

[Fookhaht]

Apple's quality dwindling: My MacBook Pro sob story

This 5-year old story is indeed sad. I wonder how many similar stories you could pull from the PC annals over the last five years? I wonder if 5 years is long enough for Apple to get its act together regarding its MacPro servicing? Got anything a little more contemporary to throw at us?

OS 10.5 - Mac OS Leopard is running slow... (Mac Forums) "or at least much much slower than when i first used the machine. is there anything i can do to fix this? like when i used to defrag in windows or something like that? nowadays i usually boot up in windows xp because it runs at warp speed on my mac. ...seriously i never thought id want to go back to windows, but its happening!"

The above poor user is committing the fatal flaw of running a Mac. They can't let go of their PC/Windows environment.

So what do they do? The first thing they do is install a Windows O/S onto their Mac (yes, can be done for another $200-$300 USD). The only problem is that now they have opened up their Mac to all the miseries and pitfalls of running a Windows O/S machine, including all the malware and viruses targeting the PC market. Then they experience the same Windows miseries and wonder what's wrong with their new Mac with its supposed virus/malware-free O/S. What they don't understand is that they've hooked an intravenous Windows bag to it, expecting it to operate without all the Windows O/S problems.

If you buy Mac, run a Mac O/S and bury your Windows past. Make a clean break. Stop using the Microsoft crutch, just because you can't learn a new O/S. When you invite Windows O/S into your Mac, you invite all the inherent problems in the Windows operating systems as well.

----------------------------------------------------

Another typical problem with Mac users, not necessarily related to the above links, is getting lazy about not rebooting the computer periodically (every few weeks or months at least.) You normally just close the cover of a Mac and it "goes to sleep," parking the hard drive and suspending all apps/processes. You can transport it, leave it for a month, etc. When you open it up, you just open the cover and continue where you left off.

Most users get lazy, and never turn the thing off, (therefore never rebooting), and not clearing up any lagging problems. When they do this (only sleep & no rebooting) they have to lie in the lazy bed they made.

In 3 months' constant use (8-10 hours per day), I've had to turn the thing off and on only once in order to clear up a non-stop software loop. Simple problem. Simple cure.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[vagabond48]

Fookhaht, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your new apple but can you please start your own thread to toot about it. Thanks

Btw, my Dell Lattitude XP Pro, 1G, now 1.5G, has worked pretty well for the last 5 years. Yes, it has slowed up the last 2 years but I probably should have reloaded the OS 2 years ago. I have probably pushed it too hard, using today's larger and more complicated apps. Then, there is the hard disk drive that has been used for about 10,000 hours.

[happysanook]

Fookhaht, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your new apple but can you please start your own thread to toot about it. Thanks

Btw, my Dell Lattitude XP Pro, 1G, now 1.5G, has worked pretty well for the last 5 years. Yes, it has slowed up the last 2 years but I probably should have reloaded the OS 2 years ago. I have probably pushed it too hard, using today's larger and more complicated apps. Then, there is the hard disk drive that has been used for about 10,000 hours.

don't waste your money on a Mac. and unless you plan on playing highly graphic intensive modern games, you won't need a high end GPU either. the integrated GPU on modern Intel CPUs can easily handle any standard use (medium gaming, 1080p playback, DVDs etc...). make sure you get at least 4gb RAM and windows 7 64 bit. You're good to go.

Sent from my K-TOUCH W806 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 13, 2013 by happysanook

[JSixpack]

For what you're doing, vagabond48, any major brand w/ at least an I3 processor and 4 GB of ram should do. I no longer like Acer, suggest Toshiba, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, etc.

And you only need to run Linux. I would try it if I were you (ask your vendor or look on the 'net to be sure your model will run Linux OK). Will take a little getting used to--not as much as you think--and it's SO stable and virus-free. Otherwise, it's Win 7.

[Fookhaht]

Fookhaht, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your new apple but can you please start your own thread to toot about it. Thanks

Vagabond, you asked a general question (What kind of laptop should I buy?), and I responded with a specific answer.

Next time, please make your limitations clear in your OP, instead of slapping my tooter out of my hands after-the-fact (e.g. "Please, no Apple suggestions." "No Lenovo suggestions," "No Toshiba suggestions," etc, etc.). I just thought I might have a little credibility with you, having computed on PC's since IBM's first PC came out over 30 years ago. It's obvious now, it means nothing.

Nevertheless, thanks for finally expressing your belated conditions to this discussion. I will respect your wishes. {Tucking tail between legs, retrieving tooter, looking for Apple thread...}

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[prestburypark]

On my first Mac after PC's and Windows since Win95, back in 1996 if I remember correctly?

God its so fast to boot, runs sweet, light as feather (MacBookAir). Was pricey (=60.000 Baht)and I bought in Uk , but if you can possibly spring for one it will win you over. Hope you find what your looking for..I always went Sony Vaio but don't know if they are available here,

Good Luck,

PP

[Fookhaht]

On my first Mac after PC's and Windows since Win95, back in 1996 if I remember correctly?

Oh oh! Thread hijack!

Prestburypark, your comments, however sincere, are not wanted here. Please read back a post or two. The PC gang is a closed-minded society (unlike us enlightened ones). However, I have had the perverse pleasure of having typed all these unwanted, unappreciated posts on my Sent-From-Heaven MacBookPro. Can you see the difference? Only The Enlightened can.

I am NOT bitter!

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[BlackPuddingBertha]

On my first Mac after PC's and Windows since Win95, back in 1996 if I remember correctly?

God its so fast to boot, runs sweet, light as feather (MacBookAir). Was pricey (=60.000 Baht)and I bought in Uk ,.....

Spend that much on a PC and you will get something that works better than a Mac. It will also cost much less to fix when it goes wrong and most software you want for it will be cheaper too, if not free.

[NeverSure]

Linux hails from Unix and is a lightweight and fast OS. Linux is open source meaning free to any developer who wants to put his own flavor on it. That's why it's cheap and it's just fine for those who like it. Who knows, some day it may take over PC's the way it did smartphones and tablets. Google's Android is Linux. Mac is and has been Unix, but they charge ten prices for it.

In all cases the hardware is essentially the same.

The only issue is getting software for it. Since Windows owns 90 percent of the market, software developers target it first, and then maybe the others.

Linux has few malware developers targeting it, and like Windows and Mac, has a built in firewall against it.

[NeverSure]

I chuckle. People complain about the price of a gennie copy of Windows, but do they complain about the cost of a Mac? Oh no, they brag about it hahaha.

[vagabond48]

Btw, when I bought the Dell XP Pro, 1G was the minimum standard for memory so I got that. Even though I plan to get 4G now, I wanted to know what is the equivalent minimum memory for W7 as compare to XP?

happysanook just mention windows 64 bit. My Dell was 32 bit.

Is there any advantages or disadvantages to going to 64 bit?

I know that 32 bit is limited to 4G of memory while 64 bit will take "a heck of a lot more".

Any other useful reasons to use 64 bit?

Is 64 bit backward compatible?

I use portable program apps like firefox, thunderbird, keypass, sumatra as well as loads of free apps like avast, zone alarm, media monkey and others.

[vagabond48]

Fookhaht, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your new apple but can you please start your own thread to toot about it. Thanks

Vagabond, you asked a general question (What kind of laptop should I buy?), and I responded with a specific answer.

Next time, please make your limitations clear in your OP, instead of slapping my tooter out of my hands after-the-fact (e.g. "Please, no Apple suggestions." "No Lenovo suggestions," "No Toshiba suggestions," etc, etc.). I just thought I might have a little credibility with you, having computed on PC's since IBM's first PC came out over 30 years ago. It's obvious now, it means nothing.

Nevertheless, thanks for finally expressing your belated conditions to this discussion. I will respect your wishes. {Tucking tail between legs, retrieving tooter, looking for Apple thread...}

Yes, I neglected to mention I am looking for a windows based PC although, I DID NOT mention that I was open to an alternative to windows but man, you are way too touchy. I thought my "request" was polite and not offensive. Btw, the highlight was not intentional. I copy/pasted your name which was highlighted on the web page and the rest of what I wrote remained highlighted. I was too lazy to change it.

[Fookhaht]

[Disclaimer: No Apple references in below post]

There are 3 most obvious advantages of 64-bit processors over their 32-bit counterparts: extended address space, capacity increase and bigger number of general-purpose registers.

The extended 64-bit address space theoretically allows the processor to work with 16 Ebytes (2^64) of physical memory within the flat memory model. Although contemporary 64-bit processors can adress only 1 Tbyte (2^40) of memory in practice, it is still much higher than in case of 32-bit addressing. A larger amount of available memory in its turn allows you to eliminate or greatly reduce sluggish operations of data swapping to the disk.

The bigger number of registers and increase of their size allow the processor to handle large memory areas simultaneously, to handle variables and arrays more effectively and to pass function arguments in registers instead of the stack.

Keep in mind that you must port your program using the 64-bit version of the compiler and consider changes of the data model (new type capacities) to get a real performance gain on a 64-bit processor. Launching an application not adapted for the 64-bit platform might on the contrary cause great performance loss depending on the specifics of the architecture of the processor being used.

But the greatest performance gain from moving to the 64-bit platform awaits those applications which handle large data arrays - these are CAD/CAE-like programs, data managers, programs to work with digital media and applied scientific applications. The performance gain might be of several hundred percent for this kind of software.

---Source: viva64.com

If the above discussion is too complicated, then your perceived need for 64 bit is probably too overblown as well. From what you've posted, 32-bit will handle all your computing needs.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[Fookhaht]

Fookhaht, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your new apple but can you please start your own thread to toot about it. Thanks

Vagabond, you asked a general question (What kind of laptop should I buy?), and I responded with a specific answer.

Next time, please make your limitations clear in your OP, instead of slapping my tooter out of my hands after-the-fact (e.g. "Please, no Apple suggestions." "No Lenovo suggestions," "No Toshiba suggestions," etc, etc.). I just thought I might have a little credibility with you, having computed on PC's since IBM's first PC came out over 30 years ago. It's obvious now, it means nothing.

Nevertheless, thanks for finally expressing your belated conditions to this discussion. I will respect your wishes. {Tucking tail between legs, retrieving tooter, looking for Apple thread...}

Yes, I neglected to mention I am looking for a windows based PC although, I DID NOT mention that I was open to an alternative to windows but man, you are way too touchy. I thought my "request" was polite and not offensive. Btw, the highlight was not intentional. I copy/pasted your name which was highlighted on the web page and the rest of what I wrote remained highlighted. I was too lazy to change it.

Thank you for your sincere comments. I wasn't offended, but admittedly a bit peeved that you let the thread bleed on for so long before making your intentions clear. Nothing like wasting a ton of time on someone you thought might be reading your posts with even a slight modicum of consideration for the arguments presented.

After being awakened by your polite chastisement, I hoped you could read my subsequent posts in the spirit of joking.

Best of luck to your search!

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[vagabond48]

Thanks. I was in IT programming and management for over 30 years. I am interested in the personal home day to day advantages of a 64 bit solution. Since I am someone who likes to use things until they wear out, I just wanting to see if a 32 bit solution that maxes out to 4G mem will last me 4 to 5 years.

Edited January 13, 2013 by vagabond48

[The Dude]

the dude recs getting an HP windows 7 puter - no experience with windows 8 but dont count it out. owned 5 HPs and delighted with all

[Fookhaht]

Thanks. I was in IT programming and management for over 30 years. I am interested in the personal home day to day advantages of a 64 bit solution. Since I am someone who likes to use things until they wear out, I just wanting to see if a 32 bit solution that maxes out to 4G mem will last me 4 to 5 years.

Well, by golly, you probably wrote that article! As someone with similar experience, and who likewise is interested in longevity of use, I would give an unqualified YES! The backwards-compatibility issue is still unclear to me, however. Perhaps another poster with more experience can enlighten us.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Fookhaht

[The Dude]

the dude has bros who dig apple massively but the dude never dug em.

[happysanook]

[Disclaimer: No Apple references in below post]

There are 3 most obvious advantages of 64-bit processors over their 32-bit counterparts: extended address space, capacity increase and bigger number of general-purpose registers.

The extended 64-bit address space theoretically allows the processor to work with 16 Ebytes (2^64) of physical memory within the flat memory model. Although contemporary 64-bit processors can adress only 1 Tbyte (2^40) of memory in practice, it is still much higher than in case of 32-bit addressing. A larger amount of available memory in its turn allows you to eliminate or greatly reduce sluggish operations of data swapping to the disk.

The bigger number of registers and increase of their size allow the processor to handle large memory areas simultaneously, to handle variables and arrays more effectively and to pass function arguments in registers instead of the stack.

Keep in mind that you must port your program using the 64-bit version of the compiler and consider changes of the data model (new type capacities) to get a real performance gain on a 64-bit processor. Launching an application not adapted for the 64-bit platform might on the contrary cause great performance loss depending on the specifics of the architecture of the processor being used.

But the greatest performance gain from moving to the 64-bit platform awaits those applications which handle large data arrays - these are CAD/CAE-like programs, data managers, programs to work with digital media and applied scientific applications. The performance gain might be of several hundred percent for this kind of software.

---Source: viva64.com

If the above discussion is too complicated, then your perceived need for 64 bit is probably too overblown as well. From what you've posted, 32-bit will handle all your computing needs.

but 32bit will not allow full access to all 4gb of RAM...with several tabs opened, a movie and several other programs open, he will need it...hence the 64 bit suggestion.

Sent from my K-TOUCH W806 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 13, 2013 by happysanook