Thai Mum Sells Child Bride For B2,000

[Mudcrab]

I think the most telling statement is that the thought they hadn't done anything wrong because others had done it too.

That in and of itself says it all.

Agree - they can still vote at elections though, which is why I think everyone should be required to pass some sort of IQ test or similar before being allowed to vote.

when did you last vote in a Thai election?

[smotherb]

Shameful, absolutely shameful. Sterilise the parents and give them 20 years each. Or sell them to a nice caring hi-so Thai chinese family for 10 years hard domestic labour.

~~~it still violated the law which protects children below the age of 15~~~

So children over 15 can be sold by their parents to rapists with impunity? Bravo to the other villagers for raising the alarm and not sweeping it under the carpet.

TV poster reactions never cease to amaze me. One would assume you are all world travelers, yet your knowledge of the world is so limited. Low ages of consent, child marriages, selling children for sex and other such activities are rather commonplace in this world, especially in Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Latin America. Even in most of Europe, the age of consent is 15 or under--13 in Spain, 14 in Portugal, Italy, Austria, Germany, most of the Balkans and the former Soviet bloc. Even in stodgy old England the age of consent is 16. And, the decadent Yanks range from 16-18 dependent upon the State. Don't take my word for it, do the research and see. Condemning the very impoverished or culturally archaic to sterilization or death seems extraordinarily severe when the motive for selling a child into marriage may be the hope of a better life for the child or the ability to support the younger siblings. Why don't you exchange your rancor for exertion into solving these problems.

Sorry Kanaga, I agree with you, I am not sure how this got posted to you

[Nisa]

Oh here we go.

Now it is not only happening elsewhere and we should not be so hard about it...there are places, it is much worse, so...just forget about this marginal case.

Hmmmm...okay...now before I say, what I want to say, I need to make one thing very clear: I don't want anything bad to happen to any of you.

Does anybody here remember the movie "A time to kill" with Matthew McConnnaughey, Sandra Bullock and Samuel L. Jackson? It was about a black man, who shot the rapists of his daughter. They happened to be white and the drama played out in Mississippi.

In his final statement to the jury, McConnaughey as the lawyer of Samuel L. Jackson, painted a heartbreaking picture, about a rape victim, asking them to imagine her, broken, bleeding...and in the end he said "No imagine her to be white!"

To all you apologists and "it happens everywhere"- guys, who want those of us to "grow up", who feel this is wrong (here...and everywhere else, by the way)...maybe you should imagine that girl to be your daughter, niece, granddaughter...and now, imagine someone being very compassionate about it and someone else is commenting to that guy "Oh come on...don't be so worked up about it! It doesn't only happen here..."

Yes...it happens!

Everywhere!

And that doesn't make it right!

Not one bit!

Not in this case or in any other!

Try empathy, for a change!

Oh please stop ... empathy???? As if you ever show this towards Thais as a whole because you are too busy talking about your superiority. You nor anyone else is likely to lose any sleep over this and the only impact on our lives regarding this OP is the communications we have here. Be it some sicko mowing down classrooms full of kids or a child abused it is tragic but it is the stuff in the news every day and we feel sad for a moment and move on. Once in a while we might read a story and decide to get involved and try to make an impact but coming onto a forum and being a motor-mouth of what is wrong with a society or a people isn't showing empathy but simply showing faux superiority to make oneself feel better. The only empathy many posters show here to a Thai victim is only when it allows them to condemn an even larger group of Thais .... as if you care less about this girl when you mention how common this type of thing is and how you know of similar incidents but make no mention of reporting such criminal acts to authorities or agencies that would provide help ... empathy???? Your sole goal is to discredit anyone who doesn't condemn Thailand and Thais broadly and dares to remind those who do that this is not representative of all Thais or Thailand.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Nisa

[rattler]

This was on the TV news 2 or 3 days ago.

It was like these people were living on a different planet.

Nope just Thailand!!!

[monkeycountry]

I think the most telling statement is that the thought they hadn't done anything wrong because others had done it too.

That in and of itself says it all.

Agree - they can still vote at elections though, which is why I think everyone should be required to pass some sort of IQ test or similar before being allowed to vote.

when did you last vote in a Thai election?

Don't see why that is relevant? But never, as I am not Thai, and therefore not allowed.

By the way, the vote test is relevant for all countries imo, and not limited to Thailand.

Edited January 14, 2013 by monkeycountry

[cdnvic]

Voting rights are not the topic here.

[khunken]

All you are doing is blindly stating a sweeping view of Thai culture that IMO is off the mark. This is not an isolated case and while it may be 'sensational' to you is should be reported. Not acceptable to the overwhelming majority of Thai people? Rubbish. There is still a mentality here (in the remote areas) that young girls can be traded, forced into marriage, sold to brothels & massage parlours (much the same) & rape allowed if the girl 'knows' the perpetrator.

This is not knocking Thailand but it one of the aspects of the country that is ripe for change.

So you are arguing with me about it not being common or acceptable by the vast majority of Thais but pointing out in "remote areas" there are still a few who believe such things????

No I'm not - please don't twist my meaning. The majority of Thais still live in the countryside, unlike most western countries. The view of those Thais would come a lot closer to the 'vast majority' that you so flippantly toss out.

Also, the mysogynistic viewpoint I mentioned about rape is still prevelant here among all classes of Thais - what we get in the media is just the tip of the iceburg. It's all very well defending all things Thai but a more panoramic view would recognise that there are problems here that shouldn't be ignored.

Thailand has MANY MANY problems as does everywhere and there is nobody I know that has said it doesn't. Like other places it has problems with crime, violence and sexual predators. However there has been a number of posts here that have stated things that Thais have no morals and that the OP story is normal or common in Thailand when in fact it is not and selling your daughter is not acceptable by the vast majority of Thais but it certainly happens here and surely happens more than it does it richer and more developed countries such as the UK or US but not also not near the frequency it does in many other countries. The OP is about a sexual predator, immoral parents (likely very poor too) and a child rape. It is not a reflection of all Thai people or even any significant percentage of them in fact the vast majority of Thais would find this story sickening. Unless somebody has not clued you and others in, Thailand is a much less developed and poorer nation than most posters come from and unless you just want to be ridiculous then it is idiotic to believe you are not going to find more problems where route causes are usually poverty and lack of education ... on the other hand you would have to be completely blind not to see the leaps and bounds Thailand has come in the last decades in terms of becoming developed and improving in areas such as child exploitation and women's rights and opportunities.

This is not an argument about how well Thailand is developing or how poor it is or how it compares with other countries. Those are just diversionary tactics.

I will state baldly: the majority of Thais would not find this case sickening at all - many of the more educated Thais might pretend to be disturbed & then do nothing about it. I have lived here for 16 years, by the way so I do tend to be 'clued in'.

I love the country, the Thai people & living here. Yes, some posts in this thread are ignorantly & broadly anti-Thai. But yours are far too much the other extreme & you seem to take exception to any criticism of Thai customs which are accepted even though illegal.

I suspect that we are not far apart, Nisa, on our respective views of this country. Mine is a tad less rosy than yours.

[DocN]

Oh here we go.

Now it is not only happening elsewhere and we should not be so hard about it...there are places, it is much worse, so...just forget about this marginal case.

Hmmmm...okay...now before I say, what I want to say, I need to make one thing very clear: I don't want anything bad to happen to any of you.

Does anybody here remember the movie "A time to kill" with Matthew McConnnaughey, Sandra Bullock and Samuel L. Jackson? It was about a black man, who shot the rapists of his daughter. They happened to be white and the drama played out in Mississippi.

In his final statement to the jury, McConnaughey as the lawyer of Samuel L. Jackson, painted a heartbreaking picture, about a rape victim, asking them to imagine her, broken, bleeding...and in the end he said "No imagine her to be white!"

To all you apologists and "it happens everywhere"- guys, who want those of us to "grow up", who feel this is wrong (here...and everywhere else, by the way)...maybe you should imagine that girl to be your daughter, niece, granddaughter...and now, imagine someone being very compassionate about it and someone else is commenting to that guy "Oh come on...don't be so worked up about it! It doesn't only happen here..."

Yes...it happens!

Everywhere!

And that doesn't make it right!

Not one bit!

Not in this case or in any other!

Try empathy, for a change!

Oh please stop ... empathy???? As if you ever show this towards Thais as a whole because you are too busy talking about your superiority. You nor anyone else is likely to lose any sleep over this and the only impact on our lives regarding this OP is the communications we have here. Be it some sicko mowing down classrooms full of kids or a child abused it is tragic but it is the stuff in the news every day and we feel sad for a moment and move on. Once in a while we might read a story and decide to get involved and try to make an impact but coming onto a forum and being a motor-mouth of what is wrong with a society or a people isn't showing empathy but simply showing faux superiority to make oneself feel better. The only empathy many posters show here to a Thai victim is only when it allows them to condemn an even larger group of Thais .... as if you care less about this girl when you mention how common this type of thing is and how you know of similar incidents but make no mention of reporting such criminal acts to authorities or agencies that would provide help ... empathy???? Your sole goal is to discredit anyone who doesn't condemn Thailand and Thais broadly and dares to remind those who do that this is not representative of all Thais or Thailand.

Totally agree!

It is much better, to tell everybody how this is just a no- brainer, it happens everywhere and sometimes worse and Thailand has made amazing steps and is just like the Garden of Eden, so stop whining!

I tell you one thing: you are one of these guys, Nisa!

"Yes, it is horrible...BUT..."

"I am not a racist...BUT..."

"Yes, it is not nice...BUT..."

I may be overly sensible with cases like this.

...and I rather be that, than just some cheap apologist, who always sees "the good" in everything (or rather the less bad) instead of just saying "It is horrible!" PERIOD!

I am NOT Thai- bashing, when I say, that these cases are very well common.

Just because they happen not ib your condo, doesn't mean, the world is perfect!

Yes, Nisa...empathy!

You should try it...it is actually a positive feeling!

[Mudcrab]

Well, these folks have certainly put the 'sin' in sod!

Now we see why, when parents can sell their daughter for 2000 baht, that regardless of how bad things get in this country, they will continue to sell their vote for 300-500 baht.

Firstly the man who committed the rape, needs jailing. Rape is rape end of! Next we all need to reflect on just how poor and desperate some families are. By virtue of the fact everyone on here has access to a computer and can also read it is likely very difficult to empathize in any way with just how desperate and morally bankrupt these parents are. The level of poverty and desperation is off the scale here and I can only assume the mother (and maybe the father) came from a home and upbringing where there was zero affection, likely child abuse and no sense of family belonging. This young girl will do a runner and end up in a bar somewhere and when she has kids the cycle will continue. This is all a reflection on decades of corrupt self serving politicians who have never given a dam_n about society or the people. No particular party, they are ALL to blame. Here Thailand is about to enter ASEAN and there are still children being sold by PARENTS!! for $60. How are the government supposed to stem the tide of human trafficking, when parents are implicit in the crimes! Shocking! as are many of the other stories on this thread. Welcome to 2013 or should that be 1213.

RAPE is RAPE when proven in a court of law. Over the years I have heard of many cases where the girl shouts rape for many reasons...one being caught in the act by a parent. I realise this is not what happened here but lets be careful in making sweeping generalisations

...but of course you had to bring this thing to the table!?

of course...I like to keep an open mind amongst the "we gave 'em a fair trial before we hung 'em brigade. I am as revolted by the case as you are.

[cdnvic]

Voting rights are not the topic here.

This was a warning, not an invitation to debate.

[Andre0720]

A time to Kill...

I watched that movie again, 2 days ago.

The little girl was gang raped and left for dead. Very heartbreaking movie.

In this case, the girl is 13, legal age for marriage in some countries. But then, regardless of age, women are not quite fond of rape. At age ten, is it rape or just plain abuse?

In a previous post, I referred to Saudi Arabia, mainly because of a recent article about a judge refusing to annull a marriage between a kid and an older Saudi man. Just as long as the man waited till the kid was 13 before having sex. How about that?

Lots of horible things happening in this world. One poster included a link to an article showing that these horrors happen in countries where the salary is $2 a day. Anybody doing something to subsidize some of these poor people, so that we see fewer of these stories. I do a share....

[harryfrompattaya]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

[Nisa]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

Completely different topic than child rape or selling a child into sex or marriage which are illegal. Although Sin Sod is not illegal it is also not required by law and doesn't have anything to do with buying a child or even a non-consensual adult. If making a good impression on your future wife's parents, paying a dowry where might be custom or asking for permission to marry is considered the selling of a human than you are by all means encouraged to work against such practices but I just don't see how raping a child or selling a child to be raped is related.

[harryfrompattaya]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

Completely different topic than child rape or selling a child into sex or marriage which are illegal. Although Sin Sod is not illegal it is also not required by law and doesn't have anything to do with buying a child or even a non-consensual adult. If making a good impression on your future wife's parents, paying a dowry where might be custom or asking for permission to marry is considered the selling of a human than you are by all means encouraged to work against such practices but I just don't see how raping a child or selling a child to be raped is related.

It is all money just fellow the money It is report by noted authories that Sin Sod is buying a women Both are wrong that 2 wrongs do not make right. Sorry you do understand. I think you paid Sin Sod and you wife is telling you it is different

[Nisa]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

Completely different topic than child rape or selling a child into sex or marriage which are illegal. Although Sin Sod is not illegal it is also not required by law and doesn't have anything to do with buying a child or even a non-consensual adult. If making a good impression on your future wife's parents, paying a dowry where might be custom or asking for permission to marry is considered the selling of a human than you are by all means encouraged to work against such practices but I just don't see how raping a child or selling a child to be raped is related.

It is all money just fellow the money It is report by noted authories that Sin Sod is buying a women Both are wrong that 2 wrongs do not make right. Sorry you do understand. I think you paid Sin Sod and you wife is telling you it is different

You seem to think incorrectly since my wife is not from Issan or a part of Thailand where this is tradition. Having an adult of legal age who wants to marry you and then performing the customs to carry out that marriage is not only not selling another person and absolutely unrelated to the selling or raping of a child ... It would be the same as saying an engagement ring makes your future wife a XXXXX and in some way is related to child prostitution?

Edited January 14, 2013 by metisdead
: Inappropriate language removed.

[Andre0720]

Nisa would be correct in his understanding.

Sin Sod: The Thai “Dowry”

Sin Sod is a longstanding Thai custom where a groom ceremonially gives their bride’s family a cash gift on the day of their wedding. Sin Sod is often mistranslated as “dowry,” a word which actually refers to the custom of a bride’s family making a paying the groom’s family. Although Sin Sod is popularly referred to as “Thai Dowry,” “Thai Bride Price” is a more accurate description of the practice.

Paying a Sin Sod for your bride’s hand in marriage is a cultural custom, but not a legal requirement. When you register your marriage, the registrar will not ask you to show that you paid a bride price

[harryfrompattaya]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

Completely different topic than child rape or selling a child into sex or marriage which are illegal. Although Sin Sod is not illegal it is also not required by law and doesn't have anything to do with buying a child or even a non-consensual adult. If making a good impression on your future wife's parents, paying a dowry where might be custom or asking for permission to marry is considered the selling of a human than you are by all means encouraged to work against such practices but I just don't see how raping a child or selling a child to be raped is related.

It is all money just fellow the money It is report by noted authories that Sin Sod is buying a women Both are wrong that 2 wrongs do not make right. Sorry you do understand. I think you paid Sin Sod and you wife is telling you it is different

You seem to think incorrectly since my wife is not from Issan or a part of Thailand where this is tradition. Having an adult of legal age who wants to marry you and then performing the customs to carry out that marriage is not only not selling another person and absolutely unrelated to the selling or raping of a child ... It would be the same as saying an engagement ring makes your future wife a whore and in some way is related to child prostitution?

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

Edited January 14, 2013 by metisdead
: Inappropriate language removed.

[Andre0720]

Harryfrompattaya

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

************

Perhaps you have not yet understood the different cultures between Thailand and your home country.

In Thailand, a Sin Sod is NOT buying a wife.

It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter....

Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your former customs.

Rejecting Thailand's customs might trigger posts suggesting for you to go back home, where everything is normal...

[Thai at Heart]

We are not Thai and we have to do our part to stop this.

I am sorry to say I known of expats who paid for brides ie Sin Sod.

I am not going to talk to them and we should all do the same as they brought a bride it doesn't matter how old the bride was or even if she was HI So They are aiding in the selling of women.

Completely different topic than child rape or selling a child into sex or marriage which are illegal. Although Sin Sod is not illegal it is also not required by law and doesn't have anything to do with buying a child or even a non-consensual adult. If making a good impression on your future wife's parents, paying a dowry where might be custom or asking for permission to marry is considered the selling of a human than you are by all means encouraged to work against such practices but I just don't see how raping a child or selling a child to be raped is related.

It is all money just fellow the money It is report by noted authories that Sin Sod is buying a women Both are wrong that 2 wrongs do not make right. Sorry you do understand. I think you paid Sin Sod and you wife is telling you it is different

If done in the right way, and freely, sin sod is not buying a person.

Paying 2000 baht to marry a 13 year old is rape.

[Nisa]

Last time .... If an adult women wants to and agrees to marry you and you choose to follow a custom that is practiced, as long standing custom, by some in Thailand of giving a gift (cash) to the family as part of the process then it is in no way shape or form the selling of another human and it not the least bit illegal ( probably not anywhere) as would be the selling of another human. And it certainly is not related to the raping of a child or the selling of a child for sex which is illegal.

I have no wish to debate the issue of Sin Sod with you but this news story has absolutely nothing to do with Sin Sod and is about the illegal act of child rape and the illegal act of prostituting a child and then the accused being so stupid to believe that they could get away with it by saying they made arrangements for the child to be married to the child molester. Without the approval of a court, you can't be married in Thailand unless 17 years old and they had no such permission.

So, this was not Sin Sod since no legal marriage could take place with the child nor had any marriage taken place where Sin Sod, by tradition, would be given on the day of the marriage and not before or after you allow an adult male to rape your 13-year old child.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Nisa

[chooka]

Harryfrompattaya

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

************

Perhaps you have not yet understood the different cultures between Thailand and your home country.

In Thailand, a Sin Sod is NOT buying a wife.

It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter....

Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your former customs.

Rejecting Thailand's customs might trigger posts suggesting for you to go back home, where everything is normal...

"It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter.... " Is this the same as losing a buffalo? Actually I thought the daughter would only be getting married and free to visit the family at will. Edited January 14, 2013 by chooka

[Psych01]

Last time .... If an adult women wants to and agrees to marry you and you choose to follow a custom that is practiced, as long standing custom, by some in Thailand of giving a gift (cash) to the family as part of the process then it is in no way shape or form the selling of another human and it not the least bit illegal ( probably not anywhere) as would be the selling of another human. And it certainly is not related to the raping of a child or the selling of a child for sex which is illegal.

I have no wish to debate the issue of Sin Sod with you but this news story has absolutely nothing to do with Sin Sod and is about the illegal act of child rape and the illegal act of prostituting a child and then the accused being so stupid to believe that they could get away with it by saying they made arrangements for the child to be married to the child molester they sold their daughter. Without the approval of a court, you can't be married in Thailand unless 17 years old.

So, this was not Sin Sod since no legal marriage could take place with the child nor had any marriage taken place where Sin Sod, by tradition, would be given on the day of the marriage and not before or after you allow an adult male to rape your 13-year old child.

The thing that happened to this "child" was very wrong! The parents have not accepted a sinsod for their daughter, they have accepted a bribe, the poor girl will now have issues for the rest of her life, due to a drunken local and her parents.

We "farrang" live in this country -- with our educated beliefs -- poking fingers. Unfortunately, most normal Thais do not have the education system, as we have in our home countries, to know what is legal or illegal. This is the way it works here, it suites the powers that be and there is nothing we, farrang, can do about it.

The U.S has sanctions against Thailand, for it's human trafficking record but, still deals with it on a military basis.

I posted a link earlier about the Law In Thailand and it's penal code. In Thai law, the guy raped the 13 year old girl. The parents then accepted the bribe of 2,000bht for a marriage, that would also have been illegal --unless sanctioned by a judge, so that no one would loose face and to save the girls honour.

Therefore, both parties (parents and the guy) should be arrested and sentenced in my eyes. Thailand hides behind this "loss of face" too much, once this stops they may be able to go forward.

My missus (Thai) is educated, has a degree in accounting and does not agree with what has happened to this "poor innocent girl". She was, married to a Thai man and in total they were together for nine (9) years, they also have a child together aged 6. When I asked her about their wedding she told me that a sinsod was paid, to which he paid a sinsod of 50Kbht along with 3 bar (baht) of gold, my girlfriend took pity on him, as her family wanted 5 bar (baht) of gold. She has, never worked in a bar, I met her whilst I was living and working in an Isaan province, as a teacher. we have now been together for 2 yrs and both live in BKK.

[Nisa]

Harryfrompattaya

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

************

Perhaps you have not yet understood the different cultures between Thailand and your home country.

In Thailand, a Sin Sod is NOT buying a wife.

It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter....

Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your former customs.

Rejecting Thailand's customs might trigger posts suggesting for you to go back home, where everything is normal...

"It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter.... " Is this the same as losing a buffalo? Actually I thought the daughter would only be getting married and free to visit the family at will.

Depends ... will the buffalo be coming back just for occasional dinners and visits or will it still be tending your fields once it goes to its new home

Sorry - couldn't resist and I actually have no idea what the exact origins of Sin Sod is but losing the daughter concept makes sense and I have also heard it to show you are worthy of taking care of the daughter but who knows why the tradition started out as traditions, holidays and all that get warped over time but the only relevant thing is Sin Sod is about marriage not about taking payment to allow some man to sneak into your child's room and rape them in the middle of the night as is the case in the OP.

[Thai at Heart]

Harryfrompattaya

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

************

Perhaps you have not yet understood the different cultures between Thailand and your home country.

In Thailand, a Sin Sod is NOT buying a wife.

It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter....

Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your former customs.

Rejecting Thailand's customs might trigger posts suggesting for you to go back home, where everything is normal...

"It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter.... " Is this the same as losing a buffalo? Actually I thought the daughter would only be getting married and free to visit the family at will.

Depends ... will the buffalo be coming back just for occasional dinners and visits or will it still be tending your fields once it goes to its new home

Sorry - couldn't resist and I actually have no idea what the exact origins of Sin Sod is but losing the daughter concept makes sense and I have also heard it to show you are worthy of taking care of the daughter but who knows why the tradition started out as traditions, holidays and all that get warped over time but the only relevant thing is Sin Sod is about marriage not about taking payment to allow some man to sneak into your child's room and rape them in the middle of the night as is the case in the OP.

I think the issue is, that the pure tradition of how the payment is made has become somewhat muddied. It can become a way to gouge people also.

Maybe it always was like this, but as i said up the page it can be done in a reasonable manner. Problem is, it can also be done in an exploitative way.

A friend of mine was challenged with, 1.8mn or no marriage, by THE BRIDE. She had been married before etc etc.

So, no marriage.....

[Psych01]

I think the issue is, that the pure tradition of how the payment is made has become somewhat muddied. It can become a way to gouge people also.

Maybe it always was like this, but as i said up the page it can be done in a reasonable manner. Problem is, it can also be done in an exploitative way.

A friend of mine was challenged with, 1.8mn or no marriage, by THE BRIDE. She had been married before etc etc.

So, no marriage.....

I have 2 friend who were told they had to pay a sinsod, both are farrang. One was told 1,000,000bht to marry his girlfriend, her father is a high status official not HiSo, she is educated. The other friend, had to pay an amount of money for an "engagement" around 100,000 bht, then when it came to them actually getting married 300,000 bht was mentioned and she was also educated.

The 1st friend did as someone else mentioned in an earlier post and showed the money, even though he did not have the cash. They are still not married but, live together in a house that was/is being paid by the GF's family. The 2nd friend ended the relationship as, the original deal of the sinsod was not being upheld.

Therefore, I agree @Thai at Heart, it has become muddied. In both instances it was one of the parents suggesting the figures for the sinsod.

[dressedingreen]

Ah, okay Nisa, dressedingreen and all the others "it happens everywhere, so don't bother": fine!

We just sit back and relax, don't bother, don't feel sick and disgusted...mai pen rai!

And the next time some red or yellow- mob settles in the city or at the airport, we just let it be. It's a Thai- thing, so don't bother!

And if someone kills someone for 500 baht- they always have done it like that, so...<deleted>?

Just chill out, have a beer and put on the rose tinted glasses.

Just for your information: I guess, most of us know, these kind of things happen elsewhere...

...and why does that not make me feel one bit better?

DocN!

I don't mind you referring to any of my posts. But when you do so please read the post carefully before attributing assumptions to what I have said. Nowhere in my post does it say, or even strongly suggest, that I have a 'don't bother' attitude. Just the opposite. The story I linked to is unequivocal in its condemnation of child brides. I suggested, at the end of my piece, that just posting how angry it all makes the majority of expats who read this forum doesn't actually change anything (the unwritten suggestion being that active support of those agencies that raise awareness and funds to fight this kind of unenlightened practice would be a more helpful way of showing concern).

Your own cliche ridden post adds nothing of any value to the discussion. Just another outburst of unhelpful anger ... until tomorrow's folk devil appears for us to vent over. How many of the following organizations have you contributed money or other help to in your lifetime? The Elders ICRW Hope CWA Care IOWD Population Council EMC Veerni

I'd seriously question your assertion that 'most of us know, these kind of things happen elsewhere'. This topic has had over 200 replies. I suggest you count how many actually refer to the the fact that similar instances occur in other cultures. Ask yourself what you knew about the subject before you stopped by, vented, and carried on with your daily life.

It's easy for any of us to throw a little manufactured anger at an injustice at the time of reading and, feeling we've 'contributed', carry on as usual. It momentarily assuages our annoyance that we can't control the world.

But then what?

DIG

[fang1081009]

Disgusting! Thai culture or just the need of money?

No...!!

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

[johnnycthedog]

Why do you live in Thailand if things that have been done for centuries, so revolt/concern/challenge you and your sensibilities?

Considered opinion quote-

I think it quite important that if I use words you find hard to get your mind around, you ask what I meant rather than put your own spin on what I said. I neither said that, nor did I intend what I did say, to be taken to mean that. The fact is, that my partially argued point was discovered to be moot, because I had forgotten where I was in terms of the debate.

When I come here I expect a lower order of response and am rarely if ever disappointed.

At no stage did I question Thaibreakers right to an opinion, I merely questioned the opinion. Often, we call this thing "debating". It is a new and fun thing. You should try it some time.

My point, for the challenged, was about trying to change a system that has been there for donkey's, based on your/his/western judgement of it's overall level of "goodness" in terms of the impact it has on the life of the Thai people.

End quote.

There are a number of insulting sentences here that would insult most TV posters if aimed at them. I'd guess in Thailand you'd call it the hi-so approach to the masses. In the Western society I'd call it an air of disdain in your comments.

Edited January 14, 2013 by johnnycthedog

[Nisa]

Harryfrompattaya

I agree Rape is terrible a crime and a rapist of child sould forfit his life.

Also Sin Sod paid for any adult Thai is buying a wife.

We are talking about buying a wife not making a xxxxx it is the parents that are doing this by taking money.

************

Perhaps you have not yet understood the different cultures between Thailand and your home country.

In Thailand, a Sin Sod is NOT buying a wife.

It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter....

Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your former customs.

Rejecting Thailand's customs might trigger posts suggesting for you to go back home, where everything is normal...

"It is money paid to the family who is losing a daughter.... " Is this the same as losing a buffalo? Actually I thought the daughter would only be getting married and free to visit the family at will.

Depends ... will the buffalo be coming back just for occasional dinners and visits or will it still be tending your fields once it goes to its new home

Sorry - couldn't resist and I actually have no idea what the exact origins of Sin Sod is but losing the daughter concept makes sense and I have also heard it to show you are worthy of taking care of the daughter but who knows why the tradition started out as traditions, holidays and all that get warped over time but the only relevant thing is Sin Sod is about marriage not about taking payment to allow some man to sneak into your child's room and rape them in the middle of the night as is the case in the OP.

I think the issue is, that the pure tradition of how the payment is made has become somewhat muddied. It can become a way to gouge people also.

Maybe it always was like this, but as i said up the page it can be done in a reasonable manner. Problem is, it can also be done in an exploitative way.

A friend of mine was challenged with, 1.8mn or no marriage, by THE BRIDE. She had been married before etc etc.

So, no marriage.....

While no argument from me and if Sin Sod becomes so important that it becomes more important than the marriage and the wife or husband can't see eye to eye or understand the others position then probably a very good sign they shouldn't get married. However, while this is an interesting subject, my only real intent (originally) was to express how it was not related to the OP and not see this sidetracked to this subject because it seems insulting (even if unintended) on many levels to somehow relate Sin Sod to taking payment for allowing a man to rape your 13-year old daughter .... even if Sin Sod causes many men to feel like they are being bent over unwillingly it just doesn't compare.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Nisa

[RigPig]

Last time .... If an adult women wants to and agrees to marry you and you choose to follow a custom that is practiced, as long standing custom, by some in Thailand of giving a gift (cash) to the family as part of the process then it is in no way shape or form the selling of another human and it not the least bit illegal ( probably not anywhere) as would be the selling of another human. And it certainly is not related to the raping of a child or the selling of a child for sex which is illegal.

I have no wish to debate the issue of Sin Sod with you but this news story has absolutely nothing to do with Sin Sod and is about the illegal act of child rape and the illegal act of prostituting a child and then the accused being so stupid to believe that they could get away with it by saying they made arrangements for the child to be married to the child molester. Without the approval of a court, you can't be married in Thailand unless 17 years old and they had no such permission.

So, this was not Sin Sod since no legal marriage could take place with the child nor had any marriage taken place where Sin Sod, by tradition, would be given on the day of the marriage and not before or after you allow an adult male to rape your 13-year old child.

Did you read this?

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/laws-in-thailand/thailand-criminal-law-text-translation#276

As was posted earlier, peoples perception of sin sod asside it says quite clearly :

"Section 277 Whoever, has sexual intercourse with a girl not yet over fifteen years of age and not being his own wife, whether such girl shall consent or not, shall be punished with imprisonment of four to twenty years and fined of eight thousand to forty thousand Baht. If the commission of the offence according to the first paragraph is committed against a girl not yet over thirteen years of age, the offender shall be punished with imprisonment of seven to twenty years and fined of fourteen thousand to forty thousand Baht, or imprisonment for life"

and

"The offence as provided in the first paragraph, if the offender being the man commits against the girl over thirteen years but not yet over fifteen years of age with her consent and the Court grants such man and girl to marry together afterwards, the offender shall not be punished for such offence. If the Court grants them to marry together during the offender be still inflicted with the punishment, the Court shall release such offender."

Seems pretty clear to me, if she had turned 13 then she is over 13 years of age. Ther is probably a good chance the court would grant "them to marry together" if all partiies are in agreement.

Marrying the girl would allow the scum to go scott free acording to the law.