Smoke, Smog, Dust 2013 Chiang Mai

[mania]

I judge the smoke levels by if i can see the mountain. and i can see it almost 100% clear today....and for the last few days. After the shitty march we had last year, this year has been amazing.

I use the same measure

I was just saying to the wife the same thing

"Hey I can see the mountains pretty good today"

Nice day

[driedmango]

I wonder if this just means burning is being put off until one point where they will torch it all at once ? I really put of my move until the smoke was supposed to be done.. aghh..

[nikster]

It's probably the weather more than anything else, Though the trend over many years is an improving one.

I'm near the cost now (Pattaya-Sattahip area) and its actually more hazy here now.

There is haze on the coast? Really? From what, burning down there? I had planned to escape to the coast by now but this year is exceptional... Just as it started to get bad we got lots of rainfall and now its nice. Its also really cold, 19 degrees this morning...

Anyway if there is haze on the coast there is even less reason to go anywhere.

[nikster]

I wonder if this just means burning is being put off until one point where they will torch it all at once ? I really put of my move until the smoke was supposed to be done.. aghh..

Yeah you bet theyre itching to burn. If it gets dry enough, they surely will. And if not, then there will be lots of underbrush for next year... last year was really bad I think in part because the year prior was very wet so lots of material to burn left over

[RED21]

Coming back from my house in the city to the staff residence where I work, could smell the familiar burning scent just a few meters away from Mae Malai market even with a balaclava on underneath my helmet. A few kilometers ahead near one of the government offices in Mae Taeng was a huge blaze, it was also near the highway... I guess a few pyromaniacs finally had a field day this evening:D. A coworker who just arrived after me said the blaze became huge that she got scared it would reach her car as she was driving on the road. With the police station just nearby (they could probably smell the burning too) it makes you wonder...

Edited March 10, 2013 by RED21

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As a reminder, localized burning of stuff doesn't really affect the air quality in the whole region. This looks like another exceptionally good year, and I'm not expecting a serious air issue later this month. It seems a little like two years ago.

It's probably the weather more than anything else, Though the trend over many years is an improving one.
I'm near the cost now (Pattaya-Sattahip area) and its actually more hazy here now.

There is haze on the coast? Really? From what, burning down there? I had planned to escape to the coast by now but this year is exceptional... Just as it started to get bad we got lots of rainfall and now its nice. Its also really cold, 19 degrees this morning...

Anyway if there is haze on the coast there is even less reason to go anywhere.

Don't know where it comes from.. Industry perhaps? Note that this is the Eastern Seaboard; Thailand has a lot of coast, so in the South it's probably a lot clearer. But again, it's not severe, if I wasn't specifically looking for it I wouldn't even notice. PM10s of 60-80 a day or two ago, but lower again now.

Edited March 11, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As another gentle reminder of how blessed we are this year, this was this week (13 March) in 2007.

(That's an *average* PM10 of about 300 for ya.)

Compared to a very clear day in June:

Perhaps someone can take a shot this afternoon from roughly the same position? (Quite far East of town, on the Middle Ring in between the New Sankypeng Road and the Old Sankypeng Road.I'd do it myself but I'm still in Patters) That's something to be mindful of by the way when people here say "I judge it by how clearly I can see the mountain; that works well for individual comparisons, but it's important to note that some people live damned near Sangkamphaeng, and others walking distance to the mountain on Nimmanhaemin or Huey Kewie. Then they say "Arrrr! I haven't seen the mountain in weeks!" without mentioning they live in Doi Saket or Mae On.

Edited March 11, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[T_Dog]

Looks like we might have a smokey season after all. Air was fairly good when we went to sleep last night but woke up a midnight coughing. Very smokey up in Mae Taeng this morning with visibilities dropping. Worst day of the season so far.

[mania]

Yes it does look & smell pretty bad today

Am thinking no outside exercise for sure.

Unless it burns off a bit later today.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's a little higher by the looks of it, but nothing too concerning. Especially because I'm not seeing insane levels in surrounding provinces. (Bit of a spike there, but then it went down again.) So probably it will clear again in Chiang Mai too, with fairly good dry season values. Not super clear, but also not cause for alarm.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Looks like we might have a smokey season after all. Air was fairly good when we went to sleep last night but woke up a midnight coughing. Very smokey up in Mae Taeng this morning with visibilities dropping. Worst day of the season so far.

I received reliable information on why this is. It's from someone who used to be active in these discussions, but couldn't bother going through all of it again this year. Except I guess to add little bits of wisdom here and there:

---

The cause of the recent change is very obvious this time, the wind direction (at 2000 feet, which is the relevant altitude) has changed from SW to NNW.

This drags in all the muck from burning in Burma (Burna?). Have a look at the fire map and the wind maps for 11 and 13 March.

And the fire map:

Edited March 13, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[TheScribe]

iPad and iPhone users can get rapid updates about their local air quality by scooting over to the Apple app store and downloading the free app "Air4Thai".

Enjoy!

Well, sort of, anyway.

[Tywais]

iPad and iPhone users can get rapid updates about their local air quality by scooting over to the Apple app store and downloading the free app "Air4Thai".

Thanks. Just saw there is one for Android. Air4Thai Android

[Mapguy]

Burma? Maybe and maybe not, Winnie. QED? No.

The wind patterns tend to be variable at this time of year --- and an altitude of 2000' (not very high) may nor may not be pertinent. It has not been established at what altitude and how far PM<10 travels, and, further PM<2.5, which is the really insidious stuff. Lots of variables to consider, even if that is known.

Then, take a look at the Chiang Mai plain and surrounding forrest closer to home. Never mind Burma. Both agricultural and forest fires have been increasing in the same relatively short period. This has been reported both north and south of the city. I am not the least bit surprised by the T-Dog's complaint above about Mae Taeng. If you look closely at the recent plots of major blazes (i.e., those reported by NASA-FIRMS) in the Doi Suthep-Pui area, there has been a definite concentration in that area which appears to be both agricultural and forest. You can almost spit on those major fires from the intersection of Chiang Mai - Mae Rim - Mae Taeng Road (107) with the Pai Road (1095). And those plots don't come close to identifying all the burning.

Yes, there is an international regional problem, but it is rather pointless to point at Burma. You can also point at Laos, of course. But I suggest, if we are into pointing a finger or shaking a fist, we do so first at Thailand. Until there are substantive changes in agricultural methods (and land distribution and use policies of the government), the burning will continue. There are some other reasons, too, but these are significant because they have to do with rice farming (a staple) and land clearance. Those changes are slow in coming. In a comparatively rich country (to Burma and Laos) like Thailand there is still at least a greater chance of mitigating agricultural burning, to begin with. Aside from that, there are some shorter range actions, such as actively enforcing existing law and effectively fighting fires when they occur (in forested areas). One first step would be to nail some of the larger commercial rice farmers. Make some examples!

As an aside, the current populist Thai government policy of rice subsidies is more than fiscally disastrous. Burma, by the way, is hell bent on increasing its rice exports (which fell disastrously in the past several years) to finance itself. So, guess what happens to international trade prices !!

Anyway, the burning has not yet been particularly comprehensive so far this season. The recent rains have spelled temporary relief. Same day-to-day comparisons over the years (as WInnie has presented before) are not particularly useful, but they are interesting to look at. The last set certainly gives you an idea of how nasty it has been from time to time. The year 2007 was a real bummer.

My hunch, unfortunately, is that the worst is yet to come. It ain't over until it's over --- and it ain't over. At least we should be glad not to have been in Beijing, or in Eastern China generally, in January, and that had nothing to do with agricultural burning !! But then, shall we talk about the plant generating electricity in Lampang or about Thailand's industrial areas far to our south? Check out their pollution readings!! Oh, by the way, the farmers burn down Hui Hin way, too!

Otherwise, Winnie, for you to rely upon an apparently very sniffy source for "reliable" information who you say can't be bothered to participate in the discussion here any longer is really beneath you! Makes you sound like the guy with the policeman stepson who is another font of knowledge!

[cloudhopper]

I don't need WX charts I only need to look out my window to see long lines of forest fires to know where the smoke is coming from. The air quality in the Pai valley has markedly deteriorated in the last 2 days.

[dave2]

re

The air quality in the Pai valley has markedly deteriorated in the last 2 days.

chiang mai has got a lot worse in the last four days

pic 1 .. 10 march 13

pic 2 .. 13 march 13

pic 3 .. 5 mins ago 14 march 13 : (

dave2

[MESmith]

Fire locations kmz can be downloaded here & opened in google earth.

In the last 48 hours it shows major concentrations of fires along hwy 108 between MHS & Mae Sariang west of here, & around the Bhumipol Reservoir to the south. ALL clearly in Thailand. Seems to be taking the pi$$ to blame other countries when your own backyard is on fire

[WinnieTheKhwai]

pic 1 .. 10 march 13

pic 2 .. 13 march 13

pic 3 .. 5 mins ago 14 march 13 : (

dave2

When doing comparisons it's best to pick the same time during the day. Late afternoons are usually clearest, and in mornings you also get more moisture in the air.

So I'd pick early afternoons for balance, though it doesn't matter much as long as it's consistent.

BTW, Lampang and Phrae are showing high values now; likely it will get a bit worse in Chiang Mai before it gets better again.

Eastern Seaboard by the way is very good now, after getting a bit hazy last week. Not that anybody here notices, of course.

Edited March 14, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[caffeinetrip]

Instead of everyone just talking and complaining about the air pollution can we please do something about it?

The biggest problem and most immediate fix isn't just the smoke and burning, it's the car smog pollution that is being trapped under the smoke. It is the carbon monoxide that is what is really dangerous to our health. Everyday I see at least 30 tuk-tuks, songthaew's, trucks cars and old motorbikes that have excessive black and white smoke come out of their exhaust systems.

How can we get the government to enforce smog checks of these cars/trucks?

Anyone have a list of emails that we can send suggestions and complaints to?

Anyone up for filming a documentary showing the exhaust smoke coming out of tuk-tuk's and trucks?

[nikster]

Instead of everyone just talking and complaining about the air pollution can we please do something about it?

The biggest problem and most immediate fix isn't just the smoke and burning, it's the car smog pollution that is being trapped under the smoke. It is the carbon monoxide that is what is really dangerous to our health. Everyday I see at least 30 tuk-tuks, songthaew's, trucks cars and old motorbikes that have excessive black and white smoke come out of their exhaust systems.

How can we get the government to enforce smog checks of these cars/trucks?

Anyone have a list of emails that we can send suggestions and complaints to?

Anyone up for filming a documentary showing the exhaust smoke coming out of tuk-tuk's and trucks?

If you want to do something - which is good - you need to educate yourself as to the causes of the smoke.

Before you even do any research, think about it for a second. Do Tuk Tuks and cars drive only in March every year? Or do they drive all year round, regardless? Do they drive more in March than any other time? Or pretty much the same no matter what time of the year it is.

Think about it. Then you'll come to the conclusion that Tuk Tuks and cars are not the problem.

What is seasonal is the LARGE SCALE burning of forests, fields, in the entire region of northern, easter, Thailand, Burma and Laos. Check out the satellite pix.

Once you know the cause of the problem, you can start doing something. Just educate yourself first.

[nikster]

I don't need WX charts I only need to look out my window to see long lines of forest fires to know where the smoke is coming from. The air quality in the Pai valley has markedly deteriorated in the last 2 days.

It's a complete joke that this gets discussed every year. Please people, do a Google search, and look at the Satellite images. In Pai, it's very immediate - all the mountainsides are on fire. But it's important to understand that Pai isn't isolated - this happens all over a very, very large area.

Fires from seasonal burning of forests and fields cause the pollution. End of story.

It's getting bad now, we're about to move out. My wife said she's 50km north of Chiang Mai and can't see any mountains, or anything at all. This will hit CM today or tomorrow. Weather report predicts no rain for the foreseeable future. So CM is about to get hazed big time.

[T_Dog]

You and cloudhopper are both right and it appears Chiang Mai will be saved for another day. Air in Mae Taeng was bad this morning and I had burning eyes and a sore throat. Visibilities were about a half-a-mile but then a south wind came up and now the visibility is about seven miles. The air flow is saving us this year.

Still no sign of enforcement or communication of the issues to those stomping the hills with the matches.

[circusman]

FACINATING !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes, there is an international regional problem, but it is rather pointless to point at Burma. You can also point at Laos, of course. But I suggest, if we are into pointing a finger or shaking a fist, we do so first at Thailand. Until there are substantive changes in agricultural methods (and land distribution and use policies of the government), the burning will continue.

I agree with that. The point of my post wasn't to blame Burma, but to show that a change in the weather occurred, first towards very unseasonally clear conditions, then back to more typical March haze conditions. Can't very well tell Burma to do anything when Thai agricultural practices are very similar.

Instead of everyone just talking and complaining about the air pollution can we please do something about it?

The biggest problem and most immediate fix isn't just the smoke and burning, it's the car smog pollution that is being trapped under the smoke.

No, we can't do anything about it. Especially not things that are immediate or easy. Things are improving over the longer term, but only slowly. And as has been pointed out numerous times, the March haze in the North is not caused by vehicles or industry. Road-side air quality / CO is important, but not the topic here. (Unless you want to tell me that the atrocious air in some years in some very rural areas in Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son (far worse than Chiang Mai) is also caused by cars and tuk tuks. )

Edited March 14, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[nikster]

You and cloudhopper are both right and it appears Chiang Mai will be saved for another day. Air in Mae Taeng was bad this morning and I had burning eyes and a sore throat. Visibilities were about a half-a-mile but then a south wind came up and now the visibility is about seven miles. The air flow is saving us this year.

Still no sign of enforcement or communication of the issues to those stomping the hills with the matches.

I see - that explains it, the air in CM isn't all that bad right now. That is, Suthep is clearly visible. I expected it to be way worse this evening. Didn't happen.

[mania]

Still no sign of enforcement or communication of the issues to those stomping the hills with the matches.

I think the issues are known to all.

I don't think enforcement is possible because what will they enforce?

The end of most of the farming?

What the government needs to offer is an affordable & workable solution.

I do not think they have one & do not know if they ever will.

When one looks at the farm lands up in places like Nan the hills are so steep

all the planting is by hand. No machinery I know of is capable of clearing the

waste from those hills after harvest.

Even if they did develop this machinery who could afford it? Many of the small/medium farmers

which probably represent the majority of farmers sell their whole crop of corn etc.

to a wholesaler who pays 200k baht for the lot & picks it up from them.

They could never afford heavy equipment to clear much less afford to

operate & maintain it. Even if such machinery that could work those hills were available.

It is a terrible thing this pollution but until the government can come up with a workable

solution through an alternative

I do not think they will slit their own throats & make all these folks unemployed

through enforcement.

Hopefully they come up with something.Although having seen the terrain I cannot imagine what that

will be.

Edited March 14, 2013 by mania

[nikster]

iPad and iPhone users can get rapid updates about their local air quality by scooting over to the Apple app store and downloading the free app "Air4Thai".

Enjoy!

Well, sort of, anyway.

Cool!

It's a bit misleading because a PM-10 score of 96 produces a happy green face. Nevermind it exceeds standards for pretty much anywhere world-wide... should be yellow IMO.

Also it doesn't correlate very well with the aqmthai thai reading... not sure what it's doing. But still, great to have this app. Thanks for the tip!

[nikster]

IMO a lot of the burning can be avoided. I don't want to tell farmers how to farm but one can use the waste from the previous crop as fertilizer for the new crop, rather than burning it - my neighbor in Pai did that, worked for him!

And the forests - there's no reason to burn them at all. Ok so they want to grow mushrooms, hunt the (last remaining?) animals, etc - there are reasons, but they're not very good ones. I think the forest fires could be stopped tomorrow with relatively small financial incentives for hill tribes living there - call 'em guardians of the forests and pay them for all area that wasn't burned. They'd get rewarded if they either put out fires or don't set them in the first place that way.

It'll probably take a generation or two.

[mania]

IMO a lot of the burning can be avoided. I don't want to tell farmers how to farm but one can use the waste from the previous crop as fertilizer for the new crop, rather than burning it - my neighbor in Pai did that, worked for him!

I have been to Pai & depending on size of farm

I can see that would be possible.

But in the hills where a lot of farming is done it is hard to convey even with pictures

how steep the hills are. That they climb up & down planting & harvesting with bags is an amazing feat.

Hard to imagine they could then go & clear by hand all the waste, carry & pile it somewhere

& let it compost.

I guess if a person had enough land they could rotate areas & let it compost naturally

while using another section for the next crop.

But then they have a seeded weed filled land that later needs clearing. Back to square one.

[TommoPhysicist]

IMO a lot of the burning can be avoided. I don't want to tell farmers how to farm but one can use the waste from the previous crop as fertilizer for the new crop, rather than burning it - my neighbor in Pai did that, worked for him!

And the forests - there's no reason to burn them at all. Ok so they want to grow mushrooms, hunt the (last remaining?) animals, etc - there are reasons, but they're not very good ones. I think the forest fires could be stopped tomorrow with relatively small financial incentives for hill tribes living there - call 'em guardians of the forests and pay them for all area that wasn't burned. They'd get rewarded if they either put out fires or don't set them in the first place that way.

It'll probably take a generation or two.

The forest burning is to stop forest fires.

When you burn light growth the fire doesn't last long enough or get hot enough to burn the trees.

When you leave it a couple of years, an accidental fire has fuel to get hot enough and take all the trees with it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111111224509AA6NpSz

Edited March 14, 2013 by TommoPhysicist