Mali Rebels Seize Diabaly As French Forces Continue Air Attacks

[News_Editor]

Mali rebels seize Diabaly as French forces continue air attacks < br />

2013-01-16 07:17:13 GMT+7 (ICT)

PARIS, FRANCE (BNO NEWS) -- As French armed forces launched a series of air attacks over the weekend on Mali, rebel forces counterattacked and made their way against government troops, officials said Monday.

France's Minister of Defense Jean-Yves Le Drian said Malian militants were able to take over the small town of Diabaly, defeating government forces in the area. The town is just south of militant strongholds in the north and opens up new routes for them.

Rebel forces reportedly entered the Segou Region's Diabaly, which is located around 350 kilometers (220 miles) northeast of Bamako, the country's capital, during the night and fought Mali's government troops until taking over.

The militants' counterattack comes only a few days after France decided on Friday to deploy armed forces, aiding Malian government troops with aerial attacks in the region against insurgent strongholds, training camps, as well as oil and munition depots.

France used Rafale aircraft and Gazelle helicopters to conduct their attacks, reportedly killing dozens of Islamic rebels, although the exact number was uncertain. However, the deaths of at least 11 civilians were also reported. As a result of the airstrikes, Mali was able to retake control of several areas, including Gao, the main city in northern Mali, and Timbuktu.

While French authorities have assured that their aerial attacks prevented militants from continuing their advance toward the south and into Bamako, the rebel Islamist group, Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MUJAO), said the group would now continue their attacks in Mali, Africa and in Europe, as France 'attacked Islam.' Rebel leaders also called on French forces to carry out ground attacks 'like men.'

Fighting in northern Mali began since January 2012 as insurgent groups have been campaigning for independence and autonomy in the region. In March 2012, President Amadou Toumani Toure was ousted in a coup d'etat for failing to handle the crisis, and by April, much of the region had been completely seized by rebel forces.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2013-01-16

[Steely Dan]

There are ironies here on several levels. Firstly the French intervene to rescue the Malian population, many of whom are Sufi Muslim from an ideology as evil as Nazism, namely hard line Wahabism as practiced by Al-Qaeda or the Taliban. Now in trying to save Mali from 'Hard core Sharia law', as the BBC referred to it France fears a domestic backlash from Al-Qaeda sympathizers living in France, and has thus gone on an elevated anti-terror alert.

So in a nutshell by trying to save a former colony from a 7th century strand of Islam they are fighting against rebels, some of whom likely come from France itself or other western nations, enjoying 21st century lifestyles. Perhaps a look at French immigration policy may be an idea, not to mention an analysis of how people living in French society hate it so much that they would prefer to turn the clock back 14 centuries.

[Hedghog]

Send in the Foreign Legionaires

[Samuimike1]

The West call terrorist in Syria Rebells, in Mali the Rebels Terrorists

[folium]

There are ironies here on several levels. Firstly the French intervene to rescue the Malian population, many of whom are Sufi Muslim from an ideology as evil as Nazism, namely hard line Wahabism as practiced by Al-Qaeda or the Taliban. Now in trying to save Mali from 'Hard core Sharia law', as the BBC referred to it France fears a domestic backlash from Al-Qaeda sympathizers living in France, and has thus gone on an elevated anti-terror alert.

So in a nutshell by trying to save a former colony from a 7th century strand of Islam they are fighting against rebels, some of whom likely come from France itself or other western nations, enjoying 21st century lifestyles. Perhaps a look at French immigration policy may be an idea, not to mention an analysis of how people living in French society hate it so much that they would prefer to turn the clock back 14 centuries.

More likely the French intervention has a lot to do with the simple fact that most of France's electricity (78%) is nuclear generated and most of France's uranium comes from neighbouring northern Niger courtesy of French (Areva) owned and operated mines. In northern Niger there is the same potential powderkeg of disenfranchised northern Tuaregs, supported by Gaddafi over the years and ripe for cordinated insurgency.

Also more sadly, Hollande needs a foreign policy success after the screw up of the attempted hostage release assault in Somalia.

Thirdly the Legion knows this part of the world pretty well having had a fair share of excursions throughout Western Africa over the years.

[sustento]

There are ironies here on several levels. Firstly the French intervene to rescue the Malian population, many of whom are Sufi Muslim from an ideology as evil as Nazism, namely hard line Wahabism as practiced by Al-Qaeda or the Taliban. Now in trying to save Mali from 'Hard core Sharia law', as the BBC referred to it France fears a domestic backlash from Al-Qaeda sympathizers living in France, and has thus gone on an elevated anti-terror alert.

So in a nutshell by trying to save a former colony from a 7th century strand of Islam they are fighting against rebels, some of whom likely come from France itself or other western nations, enjoying 21st century lifestyles. Perhaps a look at French immigration policy may be an idea, not to mention an analysis of how people living in French society hate it so much that they would prefer to turn the clock back 14 centuries.

More likely the French intervention has a lot to do with the simple fact that most of France's electricity (78%) is nuclear generated and most of France's uranium comes from neighbouring northern Niger courtesy of French (Areva) owned and operated mines. In northern Niger there is the same potential powderkeg of disenfranchised northern Tuaregs, supported by Gaddafi over the years and ripe for cordinated insurgency.

Also more sadly, Hollande needs a foreign policy success after the screw up of the attempted hostage release assault in Somalia.

Thirdly the Legion knows this part of the world pretty well having had a fair share of excursions throughout Western Africa over the years.

Aren't facts refreshing?

[Steely Dan]

There are ironies here on several levels. Firstly the French intervene to rescue the Malian population, many of whom are Sufi Muslim from an ideology as evil as Nazism, namely hard line Wahabism as practiced by Al-Qaeda or the Taliban. Now in trying to save Mali from 'Hard core Sharia law', as the BBC referred to it France fears a domestic backlash from Al-Qaeda sympathizers living in France, and has thus gone on an elevated anti-terror alert.

So in a nutshell by trying to save a former colony from a 7th century strand of Islam they are fighting against rebels, some of whom likely come from France itself or other western nations, enjoying 21st century lifestyles. Perhaps a look at French immigration policy may be an idea, not to mention an analysis of how people living in French society hate it so much that they would prefer to turn the clock back 14 centuries.

More likely the French intervention has a lot to do with the simple fact that most of France's electricity (78%) is nuclear generated and most of France's uranium comes from neighbouring northern Niger courtesy of French (Areva) owned and operated mines. In northern Niger there is the same potential powderkeg of disenfranchised northern Tuaregs, supported by Gaddafi over the years and ripe for cordinated insurgency.

Also more sadly, Hollande needs a foreign policy success after the screw up of the attempted hostage release assault in Somalia.

Thirdly the Legion knows this part of the world pretty well having had a fair share of excursions throughout Western Africa over the years.

Without wanting to, or needing to, portray French motives as pure as driven snow their intervention is undoubtedly welcome by a large proportion of the Malian population, both in the north and south. The so called rebels will struggle to paint their struggle as a battle against a colonial oppressor, seeing as the worst the French ever dealt out to their colonies is as nothing compared to the stonings, floggings and amputations which come with hard line literally applied Sharia law.

The French should be worried as they have the kiss of death endorsement from the U.N, however whether by accident or design they are the good guys here compared to the Islamists, who are fighting an ideological war against everyone except those observing their extreme version of Islam.

P.S Any Tuaregs supporting Gadafi would have been of the secular and not Islamist variety, they undoubtedly want autonomy, but as with much of the Arab spring what you want and what you end up getting are miles apart.

[koheesti]

Haven't a lot of Westerners just been taken hostage in Mali or someplace nearby? I expected to see something on the World News forum because that would seem like pretty big news...

[simple1]

Haven't a lot of Westerners just been taken hostage in Mali or someplace nearby? I expected to see something on the World News forum because that would seem like pretty big news...

In Southern Algeria at a gas plant, so far two killed & attackers were unable to escape, still on site

[JemJem]

The no. of troops pledged by some African countries is almost comical (a few hundred soldiers each

by some). How do they plan to overcome a well-established and determined enemy like that ?

I wish France and the allied African forces all the best in beating the Islamists; but sadly, I don't have a good feeling about what's going to happen in that region, unless a lot more manpower is put on the ground.

[Credo]

Some of these wars are unwinable because the terrorists do not care if they destroy everything that they are fighting for. If they can't have it, nobody can.

[koheesti]

Huge Sahara hostage siege turns Mali war global

Governments around the globe were holding emergency meetings to respond to one of the biggest international hostage crises in decades, which sharply raises the stakes over a week-old French campaign against al Qaeda-linked fighters in neighboring Mali.

A group calling itself the "Battalion of Blood" says it seized 41 foreigners, including Americans, Japanese and Europeans, after storming a natural gas pumping station and employee barracks in Algeria before dawn on Wednesday.

The attackers have demanded an end to the French military campaign in Mali, where hundreds of French paratroops and marines are launching a ground offensive against rebels in a campaign that began a week ago with air strikes.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/17/us-sahara-crisis-idUSBRE90F1JJ20130117

[Steely Dan]

Huge Sahara hostage siege turns Mali war global

Governments around the globe were holding emergency meetings to respond to one of the biggest international hostage crises in decades, which sharply raises the stakes over a week-old French campaign against al Qaeda-linked fighters in neighboring Mali.

A group calling itself the "Battalion of Blood" says it seized 41 foreigners, including Americans, Japanese and Europeans, after storming a natural gas pumping station and employee barracks in Algeria before dawn on Wednesday.

The attackers have demanded an end to the French military campaign in Mali, where hundreds of French paratroops and marines are launching a ground offensive against rebels in a campaign that began a week ago with air strikes.

http://www.reuters.c...E90F1JJ20130117

A quick further Irony - Had France and the E.U not been so keen on removing Gadaffi loads of munitions coming out of Libya would never have found their way into Mali. I wonder what's French for Pavlov's dog?

http://www.debka.com/article/22687/Standoff-on-Day-2-of-Algerian-Al-Qaeda-hostage-crisis

[MrWorldwide]

Send in the Foreign Legionaires

Already there, based on the news footage I saw a couple of days ago. Our media simply referred to them as 'French soldiers', but they were Legionnaires. They all speak French, and their officers are almost all drawn from the French Army - beyond that, I don't know how they are integrated with regular French forces.

[simple1]

Send in the Foreign Legionaires

Already there, based on the news footage I saw a couple of days ago. Our media simply referred to them as 'French soldiers', but they were Legionnaires. They all speak French, and their officers are almost all drawn from the French Army - beyond that, I don't know how they are integrated with regular French forces.

French Foreign Legion are commando qualified arm of the French Armed Services; fully integrated into the command structure

[koheesti]

34 of the hostages have been killed...

http://www.reuters.c...E90G0MR20130117

Not worthy of its own World News thread?

Edited January 17, 2013 by koheesti

[Bwanatickey]

The Rebels would have taken over the southern region of Mali.If they had of succeded,it would not have stopped there,northern Nigeria is Muslim and no doubt that region would have embraced the brothers from Mali.Then the southern very corrupt Nigerian Christian south would be quaking in their sandals. Britain has oil interests in Nigeria. So U.K has an interest in stopping this wild fire.

The "French Forgein Legion" are sadly misused by France to do it's dirty work.For many years France have sent them on covert operations in Africa,and most Legioners are very demoralised by being sent to cesspit destinations on missions that other countries would not touch.They are the best warriors in France because they are not French by birth.

[manarak]

The "French Forgein Legion" are sadly misused by France to do it's dirty work.For many years France have sent them on covert operations in Africa,and most Legioners are very demoralised by being sent to cesspit destinations on missions that other countries would not touch.They are the best warriors in France because they are not French by birth.

That's rubbish!

The Legion is the Legion.

An example of misuse for legionaires would be a blue helmet UN mission. Now that's a real misuse.

Edited January 17, 2013 by manarak

[Scott]

34 of the hostages have been killed...

http://www.reuters.c...E90G0MR20130117

Not worthy of its own World News thread?

Thread running here:

[Steely Dan]

Here is an amusing look at the absurdity of the current situation, amusing of course only if you have a very dark sense of humour. Credit to the author for nailing exactly the ironies I observed, plus a few more I didn't.

http://sultanknish.b...1/100-wars.html

The French are in Mali now, being shot at by Islamists armed with the very same weapons that France airdropped into Libya. Either those or the weapons that France sold to Gaddafi in the preceding period when European countries were competing to be his arms dealers. The joke is equally bleak, either way.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Steely Dan

[manarak]

Here is an amusing look at the absurdity of the current situation, amusing of course only if you have a very dark sense of humour. Credit to the author for nailing exactly the ironies I observed, plus a few more I didn't.

http://sultanknish.b...1/100-wars.html

The French are in Mali now, being shot at by Islamists armed with the very same weapons that France airdropped into Libya. Either those or the weapons that France sold to Gaddafi in the preceding period when European countries were competing to be his arms dealers. The joke is equally bleak, either way.

you mean it is a bit like what happend with the USA and Bin Laden?

[F430murci]

Here is an amusing look at the absurdity of the current situation, amusing of course only if you have a very dark sense of humour. Credit to the author for nailing exactly the ironies I observed, plus a few more I didn't.

http://sultanknish.b...1/100-wars.html

The French are in Mali now, being shot at by Islamists armed with the very same weapons that France airdropped into Libya. Either those or the weapons that France sold to Gaddafi in the preceding period when European countries were competing to be his arms dealers. The joke is equally bleak, either way.

So they neither had nor had access to any weapons whatsoever except those that France airdropped. Did they trace the serial numbers of all weapons being shot at them? Sounds like a bit of speculation, but even if they were why us that suprising. Kind of like trusting a bank thief with your money.

[MrWorldwide]

The "French Forgein Legion" are sadly misused by France to do it's dirty work.For many years France have sent them on covert operations in Africa,and most Legioners are very demoralised by being sent to cesspit destinations on missions that other countries would not touch.They are the best warriors in France because they are not French by birth.

That's rubbish!

The Legion is the Legion.

An example of misuse for legionaires would be a blue helmet UN mission. Now that's a real misuse.

They do whatever they are told to do, just as we did when I served in the Australian Army. The whole 'all we want is a glorious death in battle' spiel probably makes for great recruiting propaganda when they are trying to enlist young guys, but every single interview I have ever seen with an (English-speaking) Legionnaire confirms that France uses the Legion as a force of 'expendables'. It seems bizarre given the time and money pumped into their training, but Legion pay-scales tell a different story - combine that with the political implications of French casualties and the Legion suddenly becomes an excellent choice for the nastier jobs.

(Disclaimer: all of the above is the usual 'armchair warrior' talk - I only know what I've seen in docos - happy to hear from anyone with firsthand experience)

[manarak]

The "French Forgein Legion" are sadly misused by France to do it's dirty work.For many years France have sent them on covert operations in Africa,and most Legioners are very demoralised by being sent to cesspit destinations on missions that other countries would not touch.They are the best warriors in France because they are not French by birth.

That's rubbish!

The Legion is the Legion.

An example of misuse for legionaires would be a blue helmet UN mission. Now that's a real misuse.

They do whatever they are told to do, just as we did when I served in the Australian Army. The whole 'all we want is a glorious death in battle' spiel probably makes for great recruiting propaganda when they are trying to enlist young guys, but every single interview I have ever seen with an (English-speaking) Legionnaire confirms that France uses the Legion as a force of 'expendables'. It seems bizarre given the time and money pumped into their training, but Legion pay-scales tell a different story - combine that with the political implications of French casualties and the Legion suddenly becomes an excellent choice for the nastier jobs.

(Disclaimer: all of the above is the usual 'armchair warrior' talk - I only know what I've seen in docos - happy to hear from anyone with firsthand experience)

You talk about the Legion very lightly as if it were just a bunch of mercenaries.

The Legion is a large elite fighting force (about 7500 men) whose primary strength is near-fanatical discipline.

No, they don't "try to enlist young guys". In fact, the Legion receives many applications and selects in average one of eight applications.

Yes, they will do whatever is asked of them.

There have been examples in the past of Legion units fighting (and sometimes winning) until just a handful men were still standing, episodes where they marched with the slow Legion pace into minefields or running machinegun fire. I see the latter certainly as stupidity of the command, but it is also a demonstration of admirable discipline and sacrifice. I'd have the CO court martialed though.

FYI, the command line and about 25% of the force are French.

I don't know what you mean with "expendables".

I my opinion, every military unit and every man is expendable until the mission is accomplished.

And the Legion does just that: fight until the mission is accomplished or until they receive other orders, or, if they are blue helmets, they will let the enemy shoot at them without shooting back if such are the orders.

Maybe that's your idea of cannon fodder.

I call it discipline.

Combat missions are not "nasty jobs" or "dirty work".

Killing the enemy is a soldier's job, that's what they are here for.

The operation in Rwanda was particularly revealing of anti-French media reporting in English speaking countries. While speakers were reporting in rather neutral to critical words about the French military operations, you could see in the footage British and American evacuees shouting "thank you France" while they were being evacuated into French airplanes.

Edited January 19, 2013 by manarak

[folium]

Here is an amusing look at the absurdity of the current situation, amusing of course only if you have a very dark sense of humour. Credit to the author for nailing exactly the ironies I observed, plus a few more I didn't.

http://sultanknish.b...1/100-wars.html

The French are in Mali now, being shot at by Islamists armed with the very same weapons that France airdropped into Libya. Either those or the weapons that France sold to Gaddafi in the preceding period when European countries were competing to be his arms dealers. The joke is equally bleak, either way.

Too true it's an "amusing look at the current situation". If you could provide sources or references which are not islamophobe/agenda driven drivel like GOV, sultan knish or Debka, the discerning folk on this August forum might take your opinions a little more seriously, which would be to all our advantage.

I'll do you a deal. If you start referencing a broader range of sources, I will stop banging on about PIRA murdering scum, sorry elected democratic representatives!! PS some of the scum failed to get the cushy well paid posts in Stormont & Westminster and have continued their criminal and terrorist activities so sadly do not reach the now defunct status f Qaddafi

[MrWorldwide]

Manarak, I believe that I have read many of the same accounts that you have - be they embellished or otherwise - and I want to make a few things clear(er):

- I do NOT consider the Legion to be mercenaries : they do the bidding of one sovereign state, not the highest bidder on a given day.

- I dont question their discipline or their bravery, and I dont recall using the term 'cannon fodder'. I spent 4 years jumping through hoops every time I was told to do so, and I understand WHY it has to be that way.

- when I use the term 'expendable', I am referring to the fact that the French Army appears to use their highly trained, specialist soldiers in a fashion more akin to the 'General Infantryman' in other forces. That is in stark contrast to a unit like the SASR - pick one - where teams are deployed in very specific surveillance / recconnaisance / counter-terrorist roles. Afghanistan is the first conflict since Vietnam where Australian SASR soldiers have found themselves in pitched battles with the enemy since Vietnam - regardless of how well they have acquitted themselves, that isnt their primary role.

- if I can contradiict myself slightly. the Legion contains 'an elite within an elite'. Again, purely FWIR, there *are* units which may be deployed in a manner similar to other special forces recon teams, but many Legionnaires seem to live a life more akin to the role of Rifleman in an Australian Infantry company.

As I said earlier, all of this is armchair warrior speculation - I am far too old and soft to find out for myself (thankfully), but I did spend part of my youth in the Green Machine. When we went out on exercises with the Yanks, we were told that they 'budgeted' for a certain number of deaths (real deaths, not war games 'casualties') due to misadventure (primarily vehicle accidents). These were peacetime exercises in a friendly country, and it drove home to me just how 'expendable' soldiers really are. I served with tradesmen who had, literally, millions of taxpayer dollars pumped into training and equipment to ensure that we could keep helicopters in the air - do the math on a soldier from recruit training to the day they are deemed sufficiently competent to be sent out with an SASR patrol and its mind-boggling. Still, the French (like the Thais..) appear to employ a unique form of logic - I just hope it means they can achieve some sort of military 'victory' and get the hell out before the West has another Afghanistan to deal with.

Edited January 19, 2013 by MrWorldwide

[manarak]

@MrWorldwide

The French Foreign Legion is a large elite infantry corps, not a small elite intervention unit.

Foreign Legionaires are elite general infanterist grunts, not small specialized commandos, inspite of the legion having such groups as well, such as the commando sub-units within the 3 para regiments.

Pitched battles with the enemy is the primary role of the Legion, especially when operations require a high degree of discipline.

The composition of the corps reflects its general infantery/battle purpose:

- 9 infantry regiments (well, 8 1/2 to be precise)

- 3 transport regiments

- 3 engineer regiments

- 3 para regiments

- 2 cavalry regiments (i.e. light and medium tanks)

For small scale operations France has other units for that role, for example:

- GIPN and RAID (police SWAT and counterterrorism)

- GIGN (Gendarmerie SWAT and counterterrorism)

- Marine Para Commandos (French green berets)

- Army Para Commandos

- Combat Frogmen / CASM (navy seal equivalent)

- ECTLO (counter-terrorism unit)

etc.

plus several small military units attached to the secret service of which we never hear anything (such as the 11th shock unit, 11e choc, dissolved in 1993)

Budgeting for deaths by accident... well, that's sadly just the way it works. Nothing can be done about it. The more elite the troop, the less casualties from accidents though :-)

BTW, you can apply to join the FFL until the age of 40 if I'm not mistaken.

I hope the above explains why the French employ the Legion as an infantry unit - because that's what it is.

Or... what "unique form of logic" did you mean?

Edited January 19, 2013 by manarak

[MrWorldwide]

Manarak, my heritage is British, although both sides of my family have been in Australia for over 5 generations. From an Anglo POV, the French are 'unique' - I'll leave it at that. Not trying to start any flame wars, but I think its fairly well accepted that the British and the French are ancient sparring partners. Your explanation of the Legion's General Infantry role does make sense, and I may have been hasty in my assumptions re the cost of their training.

As far as being able to join at 40, I would imagine that is restricted to extremely fit individuals, and Its difficult to imagine anyone getting through basic training without prior military service. I will be 54 in April - I think I'm safely in the 'too old for military service' category

[manarak]

Manarak, my heritage is British, although both sides of my family have been in Australia for over 5 generations. From an Anglo POV, the French are 'unique' - I'll leave it at that. Not trying to start any flame wars, but I think its fairly well accepted that the British and the French are ancient sparring partners. Your explanation of the Legion's General Infantry role does make sense, and I may have been hasty in my assumptions re the cost of their training.

As far as being able to join at 40, I would imagine that is restricted to extremely fit individuals, and Its difficult to imagine anyone getting through basic training without prior military service. I will be 54 in April - I think I'm safely in the 'too old for military service' category

I think Anglo-French banter is a thing of the past. Older guys on either side seem to need it for whatever reason, but if you mention Mers El Kebir to any Frenchmen younger than 35, you will just get a blank stare or he will answer that he doesn't know the names of Paris St Germain's substitutes. Personally, I don't see any reason to disparage the Brits.

:-)

[RubbaJohnny]

I wonder if the Europeans killing Africans understand they are seen rightly or wrongly as insurgents Wonder how Australians would react to Vietnamese forces roaming Strathfield in anything more than a housekeeping role.

Odd isnt it all those nukes all that money and little girls still cannot walk to school in Kandahar