webfact Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Embattled Brit forced to stay in Thailand By Coconuts Bangkok Lee Chestnutt BANGKOK: -- The BBC is reporting that Lee Chestnutt, a British expat, has been denied a return visa to the UK following a three-year legal dispute that he thought had already been concluded. The legal fracas surrounding Chestnutt stemmed from accusations brought by his landlord, who accused the British national of stealing furniture and causing criminal damage to a property he was renting. Though these charges were dropped in 2011, Chestnutt’s landlord appealed the decision, locking Chestnutt in an ongoing legal battle. Chestnutt thought that he had [more...] Full story: http://www.coconutsb...ay-in-thailand/ -- COCONUTS Bangkok 2013-01-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court. And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20589033 Edited January 16, 2013 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloggie Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is this all about a broken chair and a scratch on the table??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puyai Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So the police must of dropped the charges. That surely means there was insufficient evidence to proceed with the case, and for the police to side with the farrang the landlord mustn't have a hope in hell of wining this case. How much money is the landlord after? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 My word, what a collosal waste of time, energy and effort to achieve absolutely nothing. Charges dropped, but appeal lodged? Something missing in the translation I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MunterHunter Posted January 16, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2013 Isnt that what Security Deposits are for? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Surely there must be more to this issue than just some damaged furniture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Briggsy Posted January 16, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2013 Probably is, mate. Somebody is angry and wants their pound of flesh. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) If he was found not guilty by the criminal court the other side can appeal the decision the the appeal courts. They have 30 days to lodge the appeal BUT they can ask the courts for an additional 30 days up to 3 times so they have 120 days from criminal court judgement to lodge the appeal. It generally takes 1 year for a case to go to the criminal courts but an appeal will take at least 1 year and up to 3 years to be heard. If the appeal court overturns the initial criminal courts findings either party can take it to the supreme court. So it seems found not guilty initially but appeal lodged. They can not bypass the appeal court and go straight to the supreme court. Edited January 16, 2013 by Para 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So the police must of dropped the charges. That surely means there was insufficient evidence to proceed with the case, and for the police to side with the farrang the landlord mustn't have a hope in hell of wining this case. How much money is the landlord after? The landlord clearly doesn't want to let this go after having invested much time and expense but why in the world has the Chestnutt let this go on unless the damage was much more extensive then all the time, money and headaches this case has cost him. It appears he has won a number of rounds just to see the landlord appeal and if it is just about some furniture I can't see why a deal was not struck not only initially but also at each appeal to get the landlord to drop the case. Either there is a lot more involved than typical missing and broken furniture or this guy needs to balance his thinking of righteousness and sometimes having to suck up paying a bill that is unfair. Given the information I have seen, I'd have great sympathy for the guy (if innocent) a long while ago but he just seems to be actually spending money now to make his life difficult. An article in The Post says he has lived in Asia 20-years and another link on the BBC shows him with an Asian male partner and the family speaking about "them" returning to the UK. So, maybe he really couldn't care about the issue of going back to the UK previously (or even that much now) and what is more important is winning this peeing contest between his landlord which I am going to assume he didn't get a long with and had problems with before the claimed missing and damaged furniture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If he was found guilty by the criminal court the other side can appeal the decision the the appeal courts. They have 30 days to lodge the appeal BUT they can ask the courts for an additional 30 days up to 3 times so they have 120 days from criminal court judgement to lodge the appeal. It generally takes 1 year for a case to go to the criminal courts but an appeal will take at least 1 year and up to 3 years to be heard. If the appeal court overturns the initial criminal courts findings either party can take it to the supreme court. So it seems found not guilty initially but appeal lodged. They can not bypass the appeal court and go straight to the supreme court. Did you make a type and say "guilty" instead of "not-guilty" ? Maybe I just read things wrong but I don't believe he has been found guilty at any time as it is the landlord who keeps making the appeals. I'd have to go back but not even sure if he was found "not-guilty" or it was tossed for lack of evidence or procedure or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If he was found guilty by the criminal court the other side can appeal the decision the the appeal courts. They have 30 days to lodge the appeal BUT they can ask the courts for an additional 30 days up to 3 times so they have 120 days from criminal court judgement to lodge the appeal. It generally takes 1 year for a case to go to the criminal courts but an appeal will take at least 1 year and up to 3 years to be heard. If the appeal court overturns the initial criminal courts findings either party can take it to the supreme court. So it seems found not guilty initially but appeal lodged. They can not bypass the appeal court and go straight to the supreme court. And what a complete screw up of a system that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurentbkk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 kill someone with gun or car and you got free on bail for few thousand baht and disappear...... brake a chair and scratch a table and you are stuck here and they refuse to let you go ..... what kind of justice is that ? it seems there are 2 justices here one for thais and one for farang . how nice is that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So the police must of dropped the charges. That surely means there was insufficient evidence to proceed with the case, and for the police to side with the farrang the landlord mustn't have a hope in hell of wining this case. How much money is the landlord after? I am not sure the police have much to do with this. It is the court and landlord. It is my understanding in Thailand you can bring criminal charges against somebody yourself ... possibly similar to bringing civil suite against somebody in the west. If it was just the police pressing charges then have a feeling this would have been settled long ago and if the police were involved it would have probably been settled long ago without a court if both parties were willing to be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post laurentbkk Posted January 16, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2013 Best to do when you move here ...... buy your own furniture 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Did you make a type and say "guilty" instead of "not-guilty" ? Maybe I just read things wrong but I don't believe he has been found guilty at any time as it is the landlord who keeps making the appeals. I'd have to go back but not even sure if he was found "not-guilty" or it was tossed for lack of evidence or procedure or something like that. Yes my bad amended. I agree he has to of been found not guilty for the landlord/whoever to appeal. Trust me when I say the police need zero reason to appeal they just screw with you to keep you here longer. And what a complete screw up of a system that is. You want to be on the wrong side of it I know what this guy is facing and going through...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court. And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here. http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033 So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Did you make a type and say "guilty" instead of "not-guilty" ? Maybe I just read things wrong but I don't believe he has been found guilty at any time as it is the landlord who keeps making the appeals. I'd have to go back but not even sure if he was found "not-guilty" or it was tossed for lack of evidence or procedure or something like that. Yes my bad amended. I agree he has to of been found not guilty for the landlord/whoever to appeal. Trust me when I say the police need zero reason to appeal they just screw with you to keep you here longer. The concept of appealing a not-guilty verdict is a bit tough coming from the US but I guess it is not all that uncommon in much of the world. In the US the accused can spend years lodging appeals on conviction but once a not-guilty verdict comes in then the accused can go on TV and write books about how he did the crime and got away with it be immune (with the exception of being charged by another jurisdiction if applicable) from further prosecution. In the case I get the feeling the police are not involved and it is the landlord who refuses to drop the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Did you make a type and say "guilty" instead of "not-guilty" ? Maybe I just read things wrong but I don't believe he has been found guilty at any time as it is the landlord who keeps making the appeals. I'd have to go back but not even sure if he was found "not-guilty" or it was tossed for lack of evidence or procedure or something like that. Yes my bad amended. I agree he has to of been found not guilty for the landlord/whoever to appeal. Trust me when I say the police need zero reason to appeal they just screw with you to keep you here longer. And what a complete screw up of a system that is. You want to be on the wrong side of it I know what this guy is facing and going through...... I have a mate going through something similar. A complaint ha been filed that he has done something, absolutely no evidence submitted from the other side, witnesses to prove that he didn't commit the offence, a ridiculously flimsy complaint that doesn't even mention any offence whatsoever. It is a completely cooked up accusation, with she said on one side, and he said, backed by several witnesses to rebut it. So, what will happen? Not guilty at the court first time around, and then appeal after appeal after appeal from the other side? The right of appeal in civil cases should be limited. What I am not sure about, concerning criminal accusations, is whether they have some kind of a prosecution service, who judge the merit of the case and whether it merits being taken to court. It's all very well to submit a criminal complaint, but surely the whole system would be sped up if someone was to decide whether or not it is possible to pursue. It is a nice idea that anyone and everyone can have their 2 seconds in court, but there are millions of spurious complaints that tie up the system, which are dismissed completely out of hand, only to be appealed and tie everyone up in further knots, dismissed again, and appealed again. Edited January 16, 2013 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court. And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here. http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033 So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right? Regardless if he is Thai or the person pursing the charges is Thai ... most rational people will settle something if it is in their best interest to do so even if it means sucking it up and paying something you don't owe. The other alternative it to suffer greatly for years by not being able to work, not being able to travel and of course spending a hell of a lot more fighting. If what has been reported is true then this surely could have been settled long ago without criminal charges and there have been numerous opportunities to settle since then without any blot on his record while not only cutting his loses but preventing further loses. But if you would rather make your life miserable because you need to prove some false sense of superiority to Thais (not the OP but you) then I guess you shouldn't complain when your life is miserable. And if you even have further issues if it is a women Thai then I can only hope you find yourself in this position a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankold Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Come the 2nd of Feb he could apply to the 50m baht foreigners in distress fund? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklingCascades Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Vindictive little landlord or is there more to this than meets the eye. There are very effective alternate ways to fix things in Thailand - something the Brit may not have explored. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fozfromoz Posted January 16, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 16, 2013 Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court. And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here. http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033 So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right? If he is right, and that seems to be the case, as it was dropped, then this guy has some ticker. Probably to his own detriment he is doing it, but it seems he is a man of principle, so takes them on. Good on him. Give him 11 out of 10. Hope he sticks it right up them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So, what will happen? Not guilty at the court first time around, and then appeal after appeal after appeal from the other side? If he was not guilty at the criminal courts and the police appeal to the appeal court where he is again found not guilty he is free there can be no more appeals from the police. If the appeal court finds him guilty he can then appeal to the supreme court. If he is found guilty a second time at the supreme court he can ask the King to assist. Problem is it takes YEARS to happen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right? Sadly yes it the way things work here. The British Embassy WONT get involved. The various charities are also unable to help. Sometimes its actually better being in prison on remand that out on bail but unable to leave the country or work here. TiT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Seems to me this is a great way of extending your stay without having to worry about visa runs. Have someone take you to cort on a petty charge; have him keep appealing the not guilty verdict and voila you are entitled to stay without worrying about visas. Edited January 16, 2013 by canman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Seems to me this is a great way of extending your stay without having to worry about visa runs. Have someone take you to cort on a petty charge; have him keep appealing the not guilty verdict and voila you are entitled to stay without worrying about visas. Yerh great thinking only one small problem. How is he supposed to support himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) Seems to me this is a great way of extending your stay without having to worry about visa runs. Have someone take you to cort on a petty charge; have him keep appealing the not guilty verdict and voila you are entitled to stay without worrying about visas. Yerh great thinking only one small problem. How is he supposed to support himself? That is the beauty -- the family has been claiming to support him these past years because he can't get a work permit. Edited January 16, 2013 by Nisa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklingCascades Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court. And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here. http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033 So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right? I think what several comments suggest is that the Brit needs to be "pragmatic","realistic". Its possible to wear a morally superior tone whilst compromising legally. It happens in the business world all the time and is part of the price of doing business in emerging-Asia; as Dad reminds us regularly. After all, it hardly pays to win the battle and lose the war (something which seems to have happened in this case) or as some may say what good is cutting my nose to spite my face. Its takes both bxlls and brains to be pragmatic, to be realistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Seems to me this is a great way of extending your stay without having to worry about visa runs. Have someone take you to cort on a petty charge; have him keep appealing the not guilty verdict and voila you are entitled to stay without worrying about visas. Yerh great thinking only one small problem. How is he supposed to support himself? Who says he needs to support himself, the guy may well have more money than sense. Another poster mentioned maybe he is a man of principal, maybe he has ran out of KY jelly and cant be bothered being shafted and playing stupid games anymore. May well be he subscribes to the Thai principal, its better to lose money than lose face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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