Embattled Brit Lee Chestnutt Forced To Stay In Thailand

[BWPattaya]

"He has to wait for a visa to be approved, allowing him to leave Thailand.

But that itself is not without drama, as it will cost him £800 in fines for overstaying a visa he never had."

Minor detail, but Thailand in a nutshell :-D

The maximum for overstay is 20,000 Bt. Whilst he is on a stop list preventing him leaving Thailand the Immigration Dept stamp his passport every 90 days, so he shouldn't have an overstay.

No one needs a visa to allow them to leave Thailand and enter his own country.

[Para]

No one needs a visa to allow them to leave Thailand and enter his own country.

No but how does he leave Thailand? No passport and name on the immigration 'hit list'.

Problem he also has due to all the publicity he cant sneak out the back door and get home. Getting the media involved bites both ways.......

[BWPattaya]

I have just read the Blackpool Gazette story. Apparently he is 41 years old, left his home 20 years ago to develop a web development business, but it is also reported that he is a Chemical Engineer.

I just wonder what the truth is. If we saw the landlord's side of things posters here might not be so quick to judge.

[Nisa]

I have just read the Blackpool Gazette story. Apparently he is 41 years old, left his home 20 years ago to develop a web development business, but it is also reported that he is a Chemical Engineer.

I just wonder what the truth is. If we saw the landlord's side of things posters here might not be so quick to judge.

Do you really think it would matter to many here? Remember he is Thai.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nisa

[Asiantravel]

I have just read the Blackpool Gazette story. Apparently he is 41 years old, left his home 20 years ago to develop a web development business, but it is also reported that he is a Chemical Engineer.

I just wonder what the truth is. If we saw the landlord's side of things posters here might not be so quick to judge.

So what ? Linked in says he has a BEng (Hons), Chemical and Process Engineering

from University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne .

Have you never heard of changing your career path ? Maybe he wanted to try something different? Given a choice based on what I know so far, I would much prefer to give any benefit of the doubt to the defendant

Edited January 17, 2013 by Asiantravel

[nahkit]

I wonder how much pain and money this has cost his mom and dad to support him these years and for him to keep this case going vs. how much the furniture would have cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

Perhaps you could put that question to his landlord?

[Remix4]

I wonder how much pain and money this has cost his mom and dad to support him these years and for him to keep this case going vs. how much the furniture would have cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

Perhaps you could put that question to his landlord?

Exactly!!! Nisa appears to have conveniently missed out the fact that the landlord is the one causing this!

[Nisa]

I wonder how much pain and money this has cost his mom and dad to support him these years and for him to keep this case going vs. how much the furniture would have cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

Perhaps you could put that question to his landlord?

Absolutely no doubt and I have already said (a number of times) the Landlord is a moron for continuing to pursuing this but he actually may gain financially though highly doubtful even if he wins, isn't facing jail time by not settling and to my knowledge isn't dependent on his family's money to support him the last years because of this case nor is he restricted to travel or confined to a foreign country while this is kept going.

Exactly!!! Nisa appears to have conveniently missed out the fact that the landlord is the one causing this!

Really?

This guy has continued to refuse to settle the matter financially with the landlord and it has cost him and his folks more money to fight this while his not being able to have a job, leave the country and has been a nightmare for the parents (their own words) these years.

But go right ahead and continue to act like this is a smart man defending some injustice as opposed to a person who just doesn't know when to cut their loses and settle with the landlord to make this whole case disappear. If this was a Thai renter and western landlord your take would be completely different.

I have yet to see anyone put forth any rational reason that these two morons have not settled their matter out of court and picking sides is idiotic as it is on every other thread where no matter what there are an abundance of posters who will simply always believe the Thai is guilty and the farang is being extorted or set up.

It really doesn't matter who was right at the start and almost surely they both have fault and legitimate gripe but it is idiotic for this to continue especially for the Farang who has already lost so much and is the one with the most to lose if he doesn't settle. .

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nisa

[chrisrazz]

I have just read the Blackpool Gazette story. Apparently he is 41 years old, left his home 20 years ago to develop a web development business, but it is also reported that he is a Chemical Engineer.

I just wonder what the truth is. If we saw the landlord's side of things posters here might not be so quick to judge.

So what ? Linked in says he has a BEng (Hons), Chemical and Process Engineering

from University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne .

Have you never heard of changing your career path ? Maybe he wanted to try something different? Given a choice based on what I know so far, I would much prefer to give any benefit of the doubt to the defendant

From the available evidence, the landlord's side of things is pretty clear. A remunerative claim for the damage and theft of non existent furniture.

It is common practice all around the world for the rich and powerful to use the legal system to wear down opponents. You only have to look at the litigious USA and it's corporations, which change names, move jurisdictions and any number of legal manoeuvres to avoid responsibility for their actions. (this is another cultural trend that is working its way into other parts of the world) Why would you expect anything different in Thailand, particularly when the matter involves an alleged former police officer and a soft target like a foreign gay couple. Only the target in this case is proving to be little tougher than the the landlord anticipated.

[Para]

I wonder how much pain and money this has cost his mom and dad to support him these years and for him to keep this case going vs. how much the furniture would have cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

Perhaps you could put that question to his landlord?

Exactly!!! Nisa appears to have conveniently missed out the fact that the landlord is the one causing this!

Remix4 don't waste your time fighting the ignorance that is sadly so deeply rooted in all forums. People love to comment without knowing any facts guess its a way to compensate.

If only there was some way to get costs back I mean your mate was nicked and found not guilt but after how many years? Regardless of the outcome there will be no justice.

[nahkit]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

Have you actually read the facts - they are fighting being thrown in jail!

Also I would like to add at this point since you appear to believe that they are doing this "at the expense of their families" that their families are fully behind them and have been since they were arrested!

The families have been picking up all their expenses for them and his family says it has been a nightmare. Had he worked a deal with the landlord this would not have proceeded. If the purpose was to extort money from him and as YOU (no verification or links provided) claim it was 500,000 baht then the landlord would have settled for less because he has also been incurring expenses and headaches from this and in 3.5 years it has cost him and his mate and the families more than 500,000 to live here and fight this case. At each juncture and all during this time he could have settled without admitting any guilt and this would have gone away ... it is the landlord pressing charges. He wins and will never be declared innocent and unlike your claims of him being found not-guilty this too has not happened and the case has just been dismissed (we don't know if lack of evidence or procedural errors or what) and if this latest appeal is thrown out then that is how it ends without a verdict and him, his mate, his family going through near 4 years of pain and expenses that greatly exceeded not only 500k but what he could have settled for. Sounds like a winner all right ... I'd be dam_n proud to be telling people the pain and suffering I put my family through for years just so I could get some justice with some landlord in some less developed nation.

This is not justice but this is pouring salt in a wound and then getting your family to make self inflicted wounds so you can continue picking at the wounds and being sure they stay infected as long as possible..

Can you provide verification/links to show that the landlord would have settled for less? Have you been in touch with him personally?

[harrry]

"He has to wait for a visa to be approved, allowing him to leave Thailand.

But that itself is not without drama, as it will cost him £800 in fines for overstaying a visa he never had."

Minor detail, but Thailand in a nutshell :-D

The maximum for overstay is 20,000 Bt. Whilst he is on a stop list preventing him leaving Thailand the Immigration Dept stamp his passport every 90 days, so he shouldn't have an overstay.

No one needs a visa to allow them to leave Thailand and enter his own country.

Immigration can and often does refuse to provide such visas.

[Jaffm]

Crisrazz,

probably target has morals and will not be bullied by the landlord.

[khunken]

So Mr Chestnutt is dealing with a retired police officer. I know they're not all bad, but with some of the current prominent examples, probably the worst type to deal with.

Up to now I had some sympathy for Nisa's viewpoint about Thais. After this thread I have none. It's almost like the victim is at fault just because the case is Thai vs Farang. From what I've read so far I'll take Remix's version as it doesn't insert highly opinionated rhetoric into the facts.

I wish Mr Chestnutt all the best.

[Nisa]

Have you actually read the facts - they are fighting being thrown in jail!

Also I would like to add at this point since you appear to believe that they are doing this "at the expense of their families" that their families are fully behind them and have been since they were arrested!

The families have been picking up all their expenses for them and his family says it has been a nightmare. Had he worked a deal with the landlord this would not have proceeded. If the purpose was to extort money from him and as YOU (no verification or links provided) claim it was 500,000 baht then the landlord would have settled for less because he has also been incurring expenses and headaches from this and in 3.5 years it has cost him and his mate and the families more than 500,000 to live here and fight this case. At each juncture and all during this time he could have settled without admitting any guilt and this would have gone away ... it is the landlord pressing charges. He wins and will never be declared innocent and unlike your claims of him being found not-guilty this too has not happened and the case has just been dismissed (we don't know if lack of evidence or procedural errors or what) and if this latest appeal is thrown out then that is how it ends without a verdict and him, his mate, his family going through near 4 years of pain and expenses that greatly exceeded not only 500k but what he could have settled for. Sounds like a winner all right ... I'd be dam_n proud to be telling people the pain and suffering I put my family through for years just so I could get some justice with some landlord in some less developed nation.

This is not justice but this is pouring salt in a wound and then getting your family to make self inflicted wounds so you can continue picking at the wounds and being sure they stay infected as long as possible..

Can you provide verification/links to show that the landlord would have settled for less? Have you been in touch with him personally?

First of all -- I am sure it has cost more for him and his partner in money then than 500,000 (a unverified number posted by someone who claims to know info and clearly is siding with tenant) to live here 3.5 years and to fight the case not including the problems with not being able to work during this time or leave the country and the nightmare it has caused the families.

But no I don't have proof the landlord would settle just like we don't have proof of anything about this case but given the expenses of taking a matter to court and given it may be a weak case (if that is the reason charges have been dismissed) and the fact he met with the defendants to discuss settlement logic dictates he would have settled for less ... then add to the fact he could have tried to settle since the case has been ongoing and that 1/2 the case is already gone (again according to a poster here) and all that remains is the criminal complaint by the landlord it seems the landlord would take compensation over only having expenses out of this ordeal.

But of course we don't know if the landlord would settle but can only use some reasonable logic based on reports of an incident that doesn't have much logic for continuing .... By your focusing on this one comment and my reply to it, I hoped I have helped you to further avoid the obvious point that the tenant should have settled this by now given the costs both financially, to his family, his career, his ability to travel as well as a possible criminal record in Thailand.

Edit: Excluding court costs and assuming his and his partner have been able to survive on combined expenses of 20,000 a month then they have already cost them 600,000 in living expenses alone the last 3.5 years and they say it could go on another 5+ years if the landlord wins the latest appeal to not have the charges dismissed.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nisa

[Thaddeus]

I have yet to see anyone put forth any rational reason that these two morons have not settled their matter out of court and picking sides is idiotic as it is on every other thread where no matter what there are an abundance of posters who will simply always believe the Thai is guilty and the farang is being extorted or set up.

.

How about the English chap has done nothing wrong and never had, he has been found innocent twice by the Thai Courts after all. If he turns around and makes an out of court settlement now, that would be tantamount to admitting guilt all along, would you do that if you knew that you had done nothing wrong and had been found innocent twice? ..... I bloody well wouldn't.

The landlord is the one that started this, and he is the only reason for its continuance, because he has suffered damage to his personal property, by being found to be a liar at the first trial and losing, that personal property is his face.

[charlieboz]

Got to agree with Nisa on this; should have settled for an amount long ago. Yeah, it sounds like the renter is right, but he has been stuck here for 3.5 years with this hanging over his head. Sometimes better to eat humble pie and move on

[Asiantravel]

Got to agree with Nisa on this; should have settled for an amount long ago. Yeah, it sounds like the renter is right, but he has been stuck here for 3.5 years with this hanging over his head. Sometimes better to eat humble pie and move on

Got to agree with

Thaddeus on this one! The courts did not find him guilty!

Anyway, how do you or any of us know whether the plaintiff was even prepared to “ settle for an amount “ as you put it. You are just speculating.

So if everyone you come across unjustifiably demands you pay them 500,000 baht you just pay up?

Edited January 17, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Para]

First of all -- I am sure it has cost more for him and his partner in money then than 500,000 (a unverified number posted by someone who claims to know info and clearly is siding with tenant) to live here 3.5 years and to fight the case not including the problems with not being able to work during this time or leave the country and the nightmare it has caused the families.

But no I don't have proof the landlord would settle just like we don't have proof of anything about this case but given the expenses of taking a matter to court and given it may be a weak case (if that is the reason charges have been dismissed) and the fact he met with the defendants to discuss settlement logic dictates he would have settled for less ... then add to the fact he could have tried to settle since the case has been ongoing and that 1/2 the case is already gone (again according to a poster here) and all that remains is the criminal complaint by the landlord it seems the landlord would take compensation over only having expenses out of this ordeal.

But of course we don't know if the landlord would settle but can only use some reasonable logic based on reports of an incident that doesn't have much logic for continuing .... By your focusing on this one comment and my reply to it, I hoped I have helped you to further avoid the obvious point that the tenant should have settled this by now given the costs both financially, to his family, his career, his ability to travel as well as a possible criminal record in Thailand.

Edit: Excluding court costs and assuming his and his partner have been able to survive on combined expenses of 20,000 a month then they have already cost them 600,000 in living expenses alone the last 3.5 years and they say it could go on another 5+ years if the landlord wins the latest appeal to not have the charges dismissed.

Nisa your ignorance of Thai law is now becoming boring.

Once Lee Chestnutt was dumped into the court legal system there is now way out till the court says.

Don't you think for a second he would of chosen to pay it off given the chance its not up to him as he is under the courts jurisdiction.

[LaoPo]

Thailand needs an independent corruption commission to investigate the wealth of every current and former government official, police or military officer and their wives and families.

It will be hard to find independent members for such an independent commission unless you're willing to accept some poor folks to step aboard in such a commission.

But.................................then they will immediately be approached for corruption, once installed

[Remix4]

First of all -- I am sure it has cost more for him and his partner in money then than 500,000 (a unverified number posted by someone who claims to know info and clearly is siding with tenant) to live here 3.5 years and to fight the case not including the problems with not being able to work during this time or leave the country and the nightmare it has caused the families.

But no I don't have proof the landlord would settle just like we don't have proof of anything about this case but given the expenses of taking a matter to court and given it may be a weak case (if that is the reason charges have been dismissed) and the fact he met with the defendants to discuss settlement logic dictates he would have settled for less ... then add to the fact he could have tried to settle since the case has been ongoing and that 1/2 the case is already gone (again according to a poster here) and all that remains is the criminal complaint by the landlord it seems the landlord would take compensation over only having expenses out of this ordeal.

But of course we don't know if the landlord would settle but can only use some reasonable logic based on reports of an incident that doesn't have much logic for continuing .... By your focusing on this one comment and my reply to it, I hoped I have helped you to further avoid the obvious point that the tenant should have settled this by now given the costs both financially, to his family, his career, his ability to travel as well as a possible criminal record in Thailand.

Edit: Excluding court costs and assuming his and his partner have been able to survive on combined expenses of 20,000 a month then they have already cost them 600,000 in living expenses alone the last 3.5 years and they say it could go on another 5+ years if the landlord wins the latest appeal to not have the charges dismissed.

Nisa your ignorance of Thai law is now becoming boring.

Once Lee Chestnutt was dumped into the court legal system there is now way out till the court says.

Don't you think for a second he would of chosen to pay it off given the chance its not up to him as he is under the courts jurisdiction.

Para you are 100% correct!

The only option offered by the court to the accused at the start of the trial (by the Chief Judge) was - plead guilty, pay 500,000 THB and maybe receive a suspended sentence as opposed to jail. Not an option!

The plaintiff was asked by the court to lower the amount he demanded - he refused!

It is not the plaintiffs decision to drop a court case.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Remix4

[Psych01]

I would like to know, what sort of place this "landlord" was renting to him, the type of furntiure etc., etc..

Quite a few years ago, I had a bedsit dwelling (a room not dissimilar to here, without an ensuite etc), I kitted it out with IKEA, bed, wardrobe and chair with a sink. In total to furnish the whole room was around 50kbht, so what has this guy provided above that... Maybe a TV and fridge? Where does the cost of DAMAGES, 500K, come from?

[Remix4]

I would like to know, what sort of place this "landlord" was renting to him, the type of furntiure etc., etc..

Quite a few years ago, I had a bedsit dwelling (a room not dissimilar to here, without an ensuite etc), I kitted it out with IKEA, bed, wardrobe and chair with a sink. In total to furnish the whole room was around 50kbht, so what has this guy provided above that... Maybe a TV and fridge? Where does the cost of DAMAGES, 500K, come from?

It was 2 houses in one compound. The houses were unfurnished since the accused had imported a 40 foot container of furniture from Singapore, where he previously lived. The non-existant items alleged stolen - a teak bed, 2 teak wardrobes, a leather sofa, one set of curtains & one TV console.

As everyone will know landlords always fit out unfurnished houses for lease with high quality, expensive teak furniture and state in the contract its unfurnished!

Edited January 17, 2013 by Remix4

[Para]

Para you are 100% correct!

The only option offered by the court to the accused at the start of the trial (by the Chief Judge) was - plead guilty, pay 500,000 THB and maybe receive a suspended sentence as opposed to jail. Not an option!

The plaintiff was asked by the court to lower the amount he demanded - he refused!

It is not the plaintiffs decision to drop a court case.

Remix4 are you sure you have this right? The trial judge 'offered' Chestnutt that?

dam_n thats screwed up. Its not the judges decision or position to offer a deal like that he has to listen to the case and judge on its merits. Chestnutt chose to fight the charge in the first case.

Sounds like the (ex)police landlord the the judge have a connection and tried to squeeze your friend IMO.

[Mudcrab]

There's always two sides to every story , but are we getting the real one from either side???

Usually three sides to every story...his version....her version...and the truth!

[chrisrazz]

Thailand needs an independent corruption commission to investigate the wealth of every current and former government official, police or military officer and their wives and families.

It will be hard to find independent members for such an independent commission unless you're willing to accept some poor folks to step aboard in such a commission.

But.................................then they will immediately be approached for corruption, once installed

There are surely decent people, who if paid properly, would be immune to corruption. I think the greater danger lies in the actual longevity of those persons involved in such investigations.

[Remix4]

Para you are 100% correct!

The only option offered by the court to the accused at the start of the trial (by the Chief Judge) was - plead guilty, pay 500,000 THB and maybe receive a suspended sentence as opposed to jail. Not an option!

The plaintiff was asked by the court to lower the amount he demanded - he refused!

It is not the plaintiffs decision to drop a court case.

Remix4 are you sure you have this right? The trial judge 'offered' Chestnutt that?

dam_n thats screwed up. Its not the judges decision or position to offer a deal like that he has to listen to the case and judge on its merits. Chestnutt chose to fight the charge in the first case.

Sounds like the (ex)police landlord the the judge have a connection and tried to squeeze your friend IMO.

No - it wasnt the trial judge, it was the Chief Judge (as in top judge for the courts) in a private meeting during the 2nd day of the trial. In fact the trial judges stated that this discussion is not on record and the decision will in no way affect the trial. The 3 trial judges were not present in the room during the meeting.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Remix4

[chooka]

I would like to know, what sort of place this "landlord" was renting to him, the type of furntiure etc., etc..

Quite a few years ago, I had a bedsit dwelling (a room not dissimilar to here, without an ensuite etc), I kitted it out with IKEA, bed, wardrobe and chair with a sink. In total to furnish the whole room was around 50kbht, so what has this guy provided above that... Maybe a TV and fridge? Where does the cost of DAMAGES, 500K, come from?

Thai calculator, the same type J.J the jetski operator uses.

[Mudcrab]

I have just read the Blackpool Gazette story. Apparently he is 41 years old, left his home 20 years ago to develop a web development business, but it is also reported that he is a Chemical Engineer.

I just wonder what the truth is. If we saw the landlord's side of things posters here might not be so quick to judge.

Do you really think it would matter to many here? Remember he is Thai.

TV? Thai vengeance...Thai vindictiveness?

[LaoPo]

OK I bite..

The problem in this case is that we have:

1 a Landlord (Thai)

2 a Tenant (foreigner)

The rental contract was terminated but we don't know all details

The Landlord is not happy but the details are vague WHY he is so unhappy and starts a court case.

The problem for the Tenant (Lee Chestnutt) is that he lives in a foreign country and has to abide Thai laws and now the Landlord uses all his legal rights, whether he's correct or not, and goes all the way to the Thai Supreme Court.

Maybe he did so because he lost face in the first court cases (which he lost) since he was a high ranked Police Officer but that's pure speculation.

Maybe he really thinks he's in his rights; we don't know since so many details are missing in this story and of course, since most of us are Farang, we mainly try and have sympathy for Lee and not for the landlord.

But it's the same when you live/visit in the UK, US, Spain or Australia as a tourist or expat.

I recall a case where a girl from Holland* drove her car in Australia with her girlfriend.

They had an accident on a dangerous road (well known to locals) and the friend of the Dutch girl died

The Dutch girl was not allowed to leave Australia due to the Australian Laws.

In the end she walked free but the cost was very high: she lost her dearest girlfriend and was left with enormous bills. No winners in this case, only people who lost.

I realize it's not the same kind of story but the fact remains that one has to ABIDE LOCAL COUNTRY'S LAWS whether right or wrong

That's Lee Chestnutt's misfortune but let's hope he will finally walk free.

* http://au.news.yahoo...ee-after-trial/

Edited January 17, 2013 by LaoPo