If Not Thaksin Then Who?

[Tippaporn]

Don't you dare to assume that the topic title and description suggest that I am pro-Thaksin. I need to make that perfectly clear for those who don't read everything.

My question stems from not having any experience or knowledge of other governments that came and went before Thaksin became prime minister. Since I know there's quite a few farang out there who have been in Thailand for quite many years I'm curious as to how they would compare Thaksin's regime to that of others. Better or worse?

Granted that may be a hard comparison since I've read that Thaksin is the first premier to serve a full four-year term since 1932. Which is a rather astounding fact. But I'm sure comparisons could be made. What were the reasons that caused the ouster of so many other prime minister's? Is history continually repeating itself in the sense that resolutions to long term problems have yet to be found?

While I'm not pro-Thaksin the question now is who will fill his shoes? Is this a potential case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire?" I imagine that since no one has a crystal ball only time will tell. Perhaps the mere hope of a more capable individual taking control is better than the alternative of keeping an individual known to be corrupt.

Then again, my views on politics is not very optimistic. Especially coming from the U.S. where Bush unbelievably and sadly, in IMHO, won a second term. I don't see too many great leaders anywhere in the world. By 'great' I mean people who possess exceptional wisdom and vision to help guide and sustain them in an increasingly complex political arena where business interests seem to influence policies more so than any other group. After all, most politicians are business people. And people will always tend to look after their own interests.

As for as Thaksin's shrewd move to extend his political longevity I don't believe it will be long lasting regardless of whether or not he wins a re-election. As long as his antics remain the same it will only be a matter of time. Give a man enough rope and he'll eventually hang himself.

For myself, I'll always look forward to a brighter future.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Tippaporn

[BambinA]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

[thaibebop]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

What does that mean?

[Tippaporn]

Yeah, what's the drawbacks of the democratic party?

Also, given politicians are generally self-serving and corrupt to whatever extent do you begin to weigh that against the benefits they've brought, such as a healthy ecomomy?

[thaibebop]

I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but didn't a democrate win the major seat of Bangkok?

[mogoso]

Yeah, what's the drawbacks of the democratic party?

Also, given politicians are generally self-serving and corrupt to whatever extent do you begin to weigh that against the benefits they've brought, such as a healthy ecomomy?

Let me remember who was in power in the late ninties, when the baht fell so badly, the banks were failing under the weight of defaulted loans, the country had a large national debt, and the folks in power were buddies with George Sourus (sp) and oh yes corruption was as bad if not worse. Could it have been the DEMOCRATS, why yes I do believe thats true.

Today more people have jobs, the World Banks been paid off, there are 30 baht doctor visits, more people have a greater hope for the future, and I don't believe the Democrats helped much.

[Tippaporn]

Yeah, what's the drawbacks of the democratic party?

Also, given politicians are generally self-serving and corrupt to whatever extent do you begin to weigh that against the benefits they've brought, such as a healthy ecomomy?

Let me remember who was in power in the late ninties, when the baht fell so badly, the banks were failing under the weight of defaulted loans, the country had a large national debt, and the folks in power were buddies with George Sourus (sp) and oh yes corruption was as bad if not worse. Could it have been the DEMOCRATS, why yes I do believe thats true.

Today more people have jobs, the World Banks been paid off, there are 30 baht doctor visits, more people have a greater hope for the future, and I don't believe the Democrats helped much.

That's exactly the point that's on my mind when I started this thread. It's one thing to denounce Thaksin as corrupt and self-serving and lobby for his removal. But what will the replacement do? Will he be free of corruption or any less self-serving? Probably not. Will he manage the country as well in that he can maintain the current economic well-being or will it all go to hel_l?

Clinton - Bush comes to my mind as an example of the U.S. experiencing a very good ecomomic period under Clinton while it's gone south once Bush got in, IMHO. Since there's a fat chance of ever finding a perfect politician are there then necessary trade-offs? Do you put up with blow jobs in the White House or profiteering from your governmental position as is the case with Thaksin for the good things that they accomplish which also affects people widely? Questions, questions.

[Thaising]

Get involved with your local government. As someone said, " Politics is too important to be left to the politicians."

Never swap your integrity for money, power, or fame.

[Kerryd]

Get involved with your local government. As someone said, " Politics is too important to be left to the politicians."

Never swap your integrity for money, power, or fame.

Are there rules here about foreigners getting involved in local politics (I don't mean running for office, but for example, campaigning for a certain party) ?

I nominate Jai Dee for PM !

(How about Boon Mee for Defense Minister, Spee for Foreign Affairs, Butterfly for Social Affairs and George for Communications Minister ?)

[thaibebop]

Get involved with your local government. As someone said, " Politics is too important to be left to the politicians."

Never swap your integrity for money, power, or fame.

Are there rules here about foreigners getting involved in local politics (I don't mean running for office, but for example, campaigning for a certain party) ?

I nominate Jai Dee for PM !

(How about Boon Mee for Defense Minister, Spee for Foreign Affairs, Butterfly for Social Affairs and George for Communications Minister ?)

There's a government that wouldn't have any problems.

[jackr]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

Better the devil you know?

[Thaising]

Get involved with your local government. As someone said, " Politics is too important to be left to the politicians."

Never swap your integrity for money, power, or fame.

Are there rules here about foreigners getting involved in local politics (I don't mean running for office, but for example, campaigning for a certain party) ?

I nominate Jai Dee for PM !

(How about Boon Mee for Defense Minister, Spee for Foreign Affairs, Butterfly for Social Affairs and George for Communications Minister ?)

There's a government that wouldn't have any problems.

Good idea, if thai government allow us expatriate to nominate one of our TV member as representative in the house. I for one will vote for it.

[thaibebop]

Get involved with your local government. As someone said, " Politics is too important to be left to the politicians."

Never swap your integrity for money, power, or fame.

Are there rules here about foreigners getting involved in local politics (I don't mean running for office, but for example, campaigning for a certain party) ?

I nominate Jai Dee for PM !

(How about Boon Mee for Defense Minister, Spee for Foreign Affairs, Butterfly for Social Affairs and George for Communications Minister ?)

There's a government that wouldn't have any problems.

Good idea, if thai government allow us expatriate to nominate one of our TV member as representative in the house. I for one will vote for it.

I was being sarcastic. The members he mentioned are always fighting in another forum, and I mean non-stop.

[HarryHacker]

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

...is that a typo?

[thaibebop]

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

...is that a typo?

No, I don't think she likes democrates.

[Kerryd]

Good idea, if thai government allow us expatriate to nominate one of our TV member as representative in the house. I for one will vote for it.

I was being sarcastic. The members he mentioned are always fighting in another forum, and I mean non-stop.

Hehehe, that's why I put their names in there. I think it'd be fun watching the fur fly when ever they were in Parliment

[Bryan in Isaan]

Don't you dare to assume that the topic title and description suggest that I am pro-Thaksin. I need to make that perfectly clear for those who don't read everything.

My question stems from not having any experience or knowledge of other governments that came and went before Thaksin became prime minister. Since I know there's quite a few farang out there who have been in Thailand for quite many years I'm curious as to how they would compare Thaksin's regime to that of others. Better or worse?

Granted that may be a hard comparison since I've read that Thaksin is the first premier to serve a full four-year term since 1932. Which is a rather astounding fact. But I'm sure comparisons could be made. What were the reasons that caused the ouster of so many other prime minister's? Is history continually repeating itself in the sense that resolutions to long term problems have yet to be found?

While I'm not pro-Thaksin the question now is who will fill his shoes? Is this a potential case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire?" I imagine that since no one has a crystal ball only time will tell. Perhaps the mere hope of a more capable individual taking control is better than the alternative of keeping an individual known to be corrupt.

Then again, my views on politics is not very optimistic. Especially coming from the U.S. where Bush unbelievably and sadly, in IMHO, won a second term. I don't see too many great leaders anywhere in the world. By 'great' I mean people who possess exceptional wisdom and vision to help guide and sustain them in an increasingly complex political arena where business interests seem to influence policies more so than any other group. After all, most politicians are business people. And people will always tend to look after their own interests.

As for as Thaksin's shrewd move to extend his political longevity I don't believe it will be long lasting regardless of whether or not he wins a re-election. As long as his antics remain the same it will only be a matter of time. Give a man enough rope and he'll eventually hang himself.

For myself, I'll always look forward to a brighter future.

Good objective post, whether you are for or against Thaksin.

I happen to have a good impression of Thaksin, but I have only lived in Thailand for about four years. I am learning a lot every day from the news and from info that is posted on this forum, so I look forward to seeing some answers to your questions in this thread.

I think the opposition has no choice right now but to comply to the democratic process. Undoubtably the PM will be reelected, good or bad. The opposition doesn't have time to organize a political campaign in such a short time. In reality, political opponents have three years to come up with constructive solutions and candidates and solid support. That three years also subjects them to scrutiny, which is only fair. Refusing to comply to this "reelection", in reality a vote of confidence, as the opposition is talking about, could lead to violence and anarchy.

Follow the legal process. Then, as they say - "May the best man win", the one who can lead the country into the "brighter future".

Bryan

Edited February 25, 2006 by Bryan in Isaan

[ColPyat]

Let me remember who was in power in the late ninties, when the baht fell so badly, the banks were failing under the weight of defaulted loans, the country had a large national debt, and the folks in power were buddies with George Sourus (sp) and oh yes corruption was as bad if not worse. Could it have been the DEMOCRATS, why yes I do believe thats true.

Today more people have jobs, the World Banks been paid off, there are 30 baht doctor visits, more people have a greater hope for the future, and I don't believe the Democrats helped much.

You are plain wrong.

In '97 the Chavalit government was in power. The decision to "float" the baht ("when the baht fell so badly") was taken in july 2nd 1997 by the Chavalit government after the government spend about two weeks defending the inevitable devaluation of the Baht by completely emtying Thailand's foreign currency reserve deposits. In turn Chavalit was forced to step down on Nov. 6th after large demonstrations.

Only then the Democrats under Chuan tool over and had to solve the terrible mess. The Democrats had nothing whatsoever to do with the crises other than implementing most solutions of which delayed results the present Thaksin administration benefitted from.

Thaksin was deputy prime minister in the Chavalit government. He resigned after he completely failed to fulfill his self set target of solving Bangkok's traffic jams. There are still persistent allegations that he had two week advance notice of the decision to "float" the baht, and has tremendously profitted from this insider knowledge. Read Phongpaichit and Chris Baker's books.

And to the Original poster:

Yes, i clearly remember both Chuan administrations. It wasn't perfect, but especially the first term, '92 to '95 were much happier days.

[1Lucky]

The current consensus seems to be that TRT will win the new election albeit with a reduced majority.

Is there any chance at all that Thaksin could be replaced as TRT leader? If so - who would the new leader be and would they be an improvement?

Lucky

[bendix]

Thaksin has pulled off a masterstroke of strategy here.

He knows the Thai people. The protestors are by and large, city-dwelling middle class and intellectuals so the state of unrest against him seems a lot bigger than it is. It's noisy, yes ,but unrepresentative.

He remains very popular in the (forgive the generalisation) largely uneducated rural class which forms the majority. As a taxi driver said to me yesterday, Thaksin bad man, but he give poor people 30 baht medicine scheme. He is respected in the rural areas because he is rich. If he is also corrupt they dont seem to mind . . in fact they seem to respect him the more for it, and so long as he does his poor people handouts, they won't complain too much.

Sondhi and the PAD have fallen into his trap perfectly. My prediction is that he will win another majority on 2 April, and will so be vindicated, for good or for bad.

I think Bambina's post sums up the Thai attitude perfectly (although her comments on 'faggots' is a bit curious . . . 'nuff said)

[penzman]

I wouldn't put all my money on his latest strategy (dissolution). Everything he's done lately seems to be blowing up in his face afterwards... Is it a streak of bad luck or poor planning on his part?

We'll soon see. Don't forget that there's plenty of time for Thaksin and the TRT to mess up until the election and plenty more people watching their every move.

[Ulysses G.]

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

...is that a typo?

No, I don't think she likes democrates.

Seems like Bambina would consider that to be a compliment.

[Miaow]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

Great answer Bambina, although i wouldnt go as far as saying i like Thaksin..Congrats to the OP for an objective topic..The political situation here sure is delicate, however, bashing on Thaksin and replacing him by another corrupted politician would't really solve the problem, and even if i'm not fond of Mr Shinawatra, the overall situation did improve as opposed to before his reign, maybe not according to our western standards of democracy, but as free as we want to believe we are, i think the goverment here is not as worst as any western one...It is quite naive to think you can separate power from corruption...

Edited February 25, 2006 by Miaow

[Tippaporn]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

Great answer Bambina, although i wouldnt go as far as saying i like Thaksin..Congrats to the OP for an objective topic..The political situation here sure is delicate, however, bashing on Thaksin and replacing him by another corrupted politician would't really solve the problem, and even if i'm not fond of Mr Shinawatra, the overall situation did improve as opposed to before his reign, maybe not according to our western standards of democracy, but as free as we want to believe we are, i think the goverment here is not as worst as any western one...It is quite naive to think you can separate power from corruption...

Power and corruption generally do go hand in hand. Kind of like being married and going to the bars. You can resist temptation once, twice, three times . . . but if you're exposed to it day in and day out the temptation may become overwhelming.

I do consider the overall economic climate under Thaksin and wonder how much that's worth. Few things rival an extremely bad economy. Unless of course you fall into a sector which remains relatively unaffected.

How does Thaksin cope with keeping the flow of work from moving to China? Or has Thailand suffered similiarly as many westerns countries have? Maybe there's no comparison since most western countries have high tech jobs to sell to China whereas Thailand herself is still importing those jobs.

Edited February 25, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Youbloodybeauty]

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

What does that mean?

Here is a definition: http://members.fortunecity.com/bonzamate/slang-ftoj.htm

Faggot - a homosexual man

BambinA are you an Aussie? Haven't heared "faggot" used for ages.

Cheers YBB

Edited February 25, 2006 by Youbloodybeauty

[thaibebop]

Good idea, if thai government allow us expatriate to nominate one of our TV member as representative in the house. I for one will vote for it.

I was being sarcastic. The members he mentioned are always fighting in another forum, and I mean non-stop.

Hehehe, that's why I put their names in there. I think it'd be fun watching the fur fly when ever they were in Parliment

Yeah, they are a hairy bunch aren't they?

somebody in his party maybe..

actaully i like him , he makes the economy here is improved

people who work like this all cheat .. less or more..

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

What does that mean?

Here is a definition: http://members.fortunecity.com/bonzamate/slang-ftoj.htm

Faggot - a homosexual man

BambinA are you an Aussie? Haven't heared "faggot" used for ages.

Cheers YBB

No, she is pure Thai! Unless she has changed it her avatar is her.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dunno about pure anything

[thaibebop]

Dunno about pure anything

What in this world is?

[think_too_mut]

While I'm not pro-Thaksin the question now is who will fill his shoes? Is this a potential case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire?" I imagine that since no one has a crystal ball only time will tell. Perhaps the mere hope of a more capable individual taking control is better than the alternative of keeping an individual known to be corrupt.

Crystal ball? Time will tell?

Birds are singing Thaksin stays, for now.

If those who believe all politicians are crooks are right, then, I want mine to be the biggest.

[girlx]

but forget the democrat party ... faggot !!

bambi you surprise me! you of all people should be tolerant of different sexual identities.