Long Term Career Advice And The Good Prospects For Expats

[mattk1]

This week in a rare moment of quietness I found myself thinking about my future and where I would like to be in 10 years time.

I am a 27 year old married man with an 8 month old baby currently living in Thailand. I, like most of the younger expats here have a job teaching English at a local school and it suddenly dawned on me that I still have another 38 years of my working life before I reach retirement age in my home country (England). That is a very long time and I really don't want to be masquerading to be a teacher for that long (although I do consider myself pretty good now but that's not the point).

It was at this moment I decided I really need to put together some long term plans and set myself some goals of where I would like my life to be headed. Not just for me but for my family also.

I do like living in Thailand but there are a number of things that worry me and ultimately I know it's not the best idea for a comfortable life. Earning a grand total of 30k Baht per month is not what I call living the dream.

So a bit more about me. My background is in mechanics but I know the trade is declining and most of my old mechanic friends back in England would do anything to get out of it.

I have decided first of all that education is key and while I am not too old to go back to university, this is what I plan on doing later this year in England.

The problem I am facing is how to decide what I want to study. My passion is engineering, aviation especially but I am also very interested in IT and technology. I suppose the reason I am asking this question on here is because I would like to know which, if any of these careers have prospects for foreigners in Thailand?

I like Thailand but I don't love it and if I ask myself honestly, I think I would ideally like to be able to know I can find work in both England and Thailand. And by that I mean not teaching English.

That may sound like a pipe dream but if it is I genuinely don't know. The help and opinions of some of you guys on here would be greatly appreciated.

Anyway I'm not sure if this will get many replies but I figured it would be worth a shot.

Thank you!

[renrut salohcin]

Sorry, I don't have any career advice for you but your post seriously infuriated me. I sincerely hope you are not teaching at my children's school based on what you said about yourself.

You described yourself as a mechanic "masquerading as a teacher" although your self-adulation states that you are now quite good. Wonderful. To be earning as much as 30,000 baht per month you must be one of the best.

Thinking about it, I actually do have some advice for you...stop fraudulently being a teacher.

If you have had some formal training as a teacher, or maybe if you are teaching mechanical engineering then I do apologise.

I realise I am probably going to be shot down now by all the non-qualified "teachers" on this forum, so fire away...if you have the credentials to do so, if you see what I mean.

[mattk1]

renrut salohcin, thank you for the reply. I would like to point out that if I'd not had any formal training to be a teacher then your post may project a valid point, a point of which I would for the most part agree with.

I, however, have completed training in the teaching of English to speakers of other languages and I also come from a family of primary school teacher's. My mother being the headmistress of a school back in England.

I also posess the required Bachelor's Degree that the Ministry of Education require for any foreigner to teach legally here. The fact that this essential degree is in Design is irrelevant to the Thai government and you can in fact, teach here with a degree in any subject. If you have that degree then you are 'qulalified' to teach here.

If that is the only legal requirement of a teacher here, then what would you class as a qualified teacher? I can tell you now that if Thailand wants to attract real teachers, and by that I mean people who were employed as a teacher in their home country, then they will surely have to raise the basic salary to a figure higher than 30k Baht. Would you not agree?

Anyway this post was not designed to start a debate about who qualifies as a teacher and who doesn't so I would appreciate it if you could keep your opinions on that matter to yourself. Or better still start your own thread.

Thank you.

[mccw]

Would you take your family with you back to UK when you study? How are you going to afford it either way?

England is miserable; the cost of living has rocketed and its a poor labour market. Even with a fresh degree not sure how easily a 30year old with no experience will fair. If you have the money to go to university in UK I'd suggest you maybe think of better ways to put that money to work.

You did seem concerned about your families future but I'd just like to put my point of view (as a young man with two kids also) that once you have family life's about what you can provide for them in twenty years + time; not eh rather you can look at yourself and say "I'm living the dream" or not.

For sure they are big life questions but I'd wonder if realistically you'd be better off trying to advance your teaching prospects. Some extra training maybe, in buisiness English or try to move up in to a more administrative role. You could expect to double your salary in a few years. If you have the 9000£ in UK uni fees x3 + living costs maybe you could invest in a home for your family; start to build a rental portfolio or other investments.

[mattk1]

Hi mccw,

Thanks for the reply. I would be taking my wife and baby with me back to the UK, a settlement visa should be ok I've been told due to my circumstances and the length of time we have been together etc. As for the finances, the bank of mum and dad would be helping out but not for free. I most certainly will have to pay them back, and rightly so I hear you say.

I had thought about the lack of experience you mentioned and I do admit it is something that concerns me. I would hate to have commited all that time and money only to find at the end that it was a total waste. Perhaps someone else will reply who has also attended university later in life.

I also agree with what you said about providing for the future and it not being about me 'living the dream'. What I meant by that is that right now we basically live month by month, unable to save or go out to nice places. While the baby is young that's not so much of a problem but when he is older I want to take him out to fun places. How old are your two kids if you don't mind me asking?

Some extra teacher training may be a good option that I hadn't actually thought about, good idea. I can ask my mum for some advice about that.

By the sound of it you have no plans to go back to the UK (if you're from there that is)

[mccw]

Hi mattk1

I'm actually just about to return to Thailand after 4 years of UK life. I was basically in the same position you were before. Married with 1 child and a low income (by UK standards). They, immigration, refused our first aplication on the grounds we couldn't "support ourselves without recourse to public funds". We had to borrow 15grand from my parents and leave it in the bank for six months to show on the statements and do another application. Since then they have tightened up the rules considerably. My wife's kept up to date with it all since she is about to apply for citizenship. Now they have minimum salary requirement of 18k py + 2k per child, you must have already, an offer and of started this job with in 3months of returning to UK to be allowed to bring your wife with you. Otherwise you'll need the equivillant in savings to cover you proposed length of stay, ie 3 years = £60,000. In the bank for at least six months to show statements. A family garrantee/ sponsor isn't good enough anymore.

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments. You could suggest you research and find the property, go back UK for a couple of months and renovate + furnish the place ready for letting and then ask ever so nicely to share the profits. Or some property on the Thai side. Maybe they are thinking could have a nice place to holiday and visit you and you can give for weekly holiday rentals when they are not there. At 90k could be enough for a place for your family aswell in that, so less accommodation costs, could work a repayment in to the rental share profit equation.

Also if couple with or anyway:

Just based on your current experience and qualification you could expect to earn 50-60k pm working at an international school. Where do you live now? A cheaper location like Chiang Mai or chonburi could equal similar salary but lower costs equalling more money aside for savings and investment.

Like I said before, add some extra qualification from Thai uni, like MBA in education or management, ie targeted for your work, to try and move up in the pay scales. (A friend of mine did this after just 3years as a teacher, moved to be head of section, then 2years later got a new job as the administrator of a new language school in china on a very lucrative salary given the cost of living equation = far more than could be achieved in west on similar qualifications. I have friend who are "proper" teachers in UK moved or about to move east due to these factors)

Regarding the education of our kids. Many Brits return to use the free state education, but to be honest it is really shockingly poor. Only 40% of school leavers now get 5 Cs at GCSE. What with the economic outlook and cuts etc I only expect standards to fall further. My boys are at a school cost of £5k py (rising dramatically as they get older); I will send them to one in Thailand for about the same (not rising half as much). I think with following these advise you should be able to afford this also.

I was lucky to get in the property game at the lowest point of the market and have built a little portfolio now to move back comfortably; with the seed capital from bank of mum and dad; I'm very fortunate and I know not everyone has such chances, I don't need to pay it back because we share profits and it keeps growing + will provide for thier retirement also, so everyone's a winner. Basically what I'm saying is- its probably better for you and your parents to invest in something physical that can grow and produce income rather 3years of UZ life with out anything to show for it except for you having another bit of paper on your CV in what is a very tough western jobs market.

-------

I give you idea of my UK living costs:

-Mortgage 860pm (2bed house outside of Brighton) to rent the same would be 1100pm

-£400 on petrol just driving to work

-£800 on food (not living extravagant but the occasional meal out)

-£250pm utilities

-£202 Council Tax

This is bare bones with out clothes for the kids, school fees, pub (I had to give this and drink up entirely), holidays or family days out, etc etc.

You can see that even on a fairly decent starting Grady ate salary of 22-25k py ,even of you landed one right away , there would hardly be any spare for savings, especially if your wife is not working or can only get part time / low paid work. Factor in tax aswell:(

Edited January 26, 2013 by mccw

[mccw]

Learning to speak, read and write Thai proficiently would help also.

[davejones]

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments.

LOL. A London property worth £500,000 would give you rental income of £1300-£1500 per month after expenses. And that's if you owned it outright. If you had a mortgage, you'd be making a loss. Can you please explain how you came up with this figures. I'd buy 10 houses if your figures were true. Sadly, they are not.

[davejones]

England is miserable.

England is not miserable at all. It is a great place to live. That's why so many people want to live there. I'm sure some people who live there are miserable, but they'd probably be miserable anywhere. England is one of the best places I ever lived.

[davejones]

I didn't go to university until I was 26. It transformed my life, and was one of the best things I ever did. It was quite a while ago, and in those days we got grants, so I didn't have any debt at the end of it. But even if you pay fees, you can also work part-time to help pay them off as you go along. Whether it works for you depends on the subjects you take and whether this will help you get a job at the end of it. Buying property has merit, but getting a great job can earn you a massive amount of money very quickly. A few years after uni, I was earning almost £100K a year (in IT). If I'd borrowed money to buy property instead of going to uni, then I think I'd be pretty poor now. It is working that enabled me to buy property later in life. I don't think property investment is a great idea for someone earning the equivalent of £600/month. Have a few void months rent, or some damage to the property, and you could lose the lot very quickly. Don't forget that large parts of rental 'profits' end up being spent on repairs and renovations. In the early years you're more likely to be running a loss on a buy-to let investment. They are long-term investment, not get-rich-quick schemes.

Going to uni and getting a relevant degree sounds like a good option to me. But you have to weigh it up against your other options. Good luck.

Edited January 26, 2013 by davejones

[starship]

Hi.

As another poster mentioned, things are tough in the U.K now and getting tougher by the day. Large businesses are going into administration and putting 1000's out of work every week. Recently Comet, Jessops and others have gone bust HMV are in administration. Lots of public sector jobs have gone in the last year and are continuing to go. All of this puts a large amount of skilled, experienced people in competition for jobs of which there aren't that many.

I came back to U.K over a year ago and it took three month's to get ANYTHING. My niece who graduated from Cambridge last year has a poorly paid graduate job considering her education and prior to that she was messed around by various companies doing unpaid/low paid internships which led to nothing permanent. This is the reality for a lot of graduates in the U.K at present. I do not want to appear a doom monger but only to make you aware of the realities. If you've got plenty of money stashed away or very wealthy parents then maybe it's a possibility to return. As also mentioned visa rules have tightened up a lot. I would not automatically expect that your wife/child would be granted a U.K visa without you having a guaranteed job and thus means to support yourself without recourse to public funds, which in itself is a requirement of a visa to be granted.

You say you're not sure about Thailand as a place to stay. I would suggest that the other advice given to get extra work/improve qualifications to get a more senior/better paid position is good advice. Maybe try to do private teaching which i understand is more lucrative outside and on top of your school teaching. Try changing schools. I know a lot of people moan about 30000bt salaries, i don't think these are going to rise any time soon.Thousands of graduates and others come to Thailand to teach and these rates are being held down by this and the agencies that control a lot of the jobs.I know a guy who teaches at a university and he gets 5% annual increases - try that for instance. Things may not seem that great for you but you have a family to support and things could be a lot worse for you in the U.K even if you were allowed to all come here as a family. It's getting very expensive now in the U.K to live with renting,utilities and food all going up a lot. I know Thailand has gone up too and that is why you need to take steps to stay ahead of inflation and more but things you take for granted like eating outside for 40b each and no washing up you just can't do in England! Don't mention the weather!

Something for you to ponder.

[mccw]

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments.

LOL. A London property worth £500,000 would give you rental income of £1300-£1500 per month after expenses. And that's if you owned it outright. If you had a mortgage, you'd be making a loss. Can you please explain how you came up with this figures. I'd buy 10 houses if your figures were true. Sadly, they are not.

90k deposit easily enough for those returns

In Brighton I brought a house for 205k 2 years ago, 30k more investment and subdivided now yields me gross £3600pm. I could sell it for probably 350-380k. Another place cost 270k, converted at a cost of 10grand now yields about the same gross. I'll convert again it to a single 8bef student house at minimal cost just turning one double to be living room- gross rent will be 2950pm = roughly £2grand profit after costs. I'll sell it to you for £375,000 if you want it?

It's all about property selection and seeing potential- not just chucking money at it.

London the returns are not so great, true

Edited January 26, 2013 by mccw

[rgs2001uk]

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments.

LOL. A London property worth £500,000 would give you rental income of £1300-£1500 per month after expenses. And that's if you owned it outright. If you had a mortgage, you'd be making a loss. Can you please explain how you came up with this figures. I'd buy 10 houses if your figures were true. Sadly, they are not.

An Edinburgh property worth 200k gives an income of 800 per month.

Sadly thats only 4% I got a better return on the SET last year.

[LongTimeLurker]

Study something in the Mechanical Engineering field that is related to oil and gas as that's where the money always seems to be, and power generation to a lesser extent. Even something related to HSE for O&G. Your ME design degree will help, safety in design is a big thing with oil companies these days.

Do you actually have any ME work experience that would help you get you a foot in the door?

[mccw]

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments.

LOL. A London property worth £500,000 would give you rental income of £1300-£1500 per month after expenses. And that's if you owned it outright. If you had a mortgage, you'd be making a loss. Can you please explain how you came up with this figures. I'd buy 10 houses if your figures were true. Sadly, they are not.

An Edinburgh property worth 200k gives an income of 800 per month.

Sadly thats only 4% I got a better return on the SET last year.

Like I said; its all about property and location selection. With the leverage of the mortgage I make around 30% on the cash I put in. + the capital increase = much better than the stock market. Although its true the SET did just have a great 3 years, it could easily turn the other way- while the demand for student housing in london or Brighton isn't going anywhere.

[utalkin2me]

Diesel engines.

[chainarong]

You have already identified the area's of education I would pursue , aviation , next twenty five, fifty years will be growth in this sector, electronics, look at every twenty five years for job change, at your age you possibly have two to go,good luck. I'm lucky, am semi retired, now can pick an choose my work site.

[davejones]

Realistically you'd need this money just to live, then plus tuition fee- that's a lot of debt even if it is to your parents. That money could deposit on a student rental house in London earning 1500£ pm profit after mortgage payments.

LOL. A London property worth £500,000 would give you rental income of £1300-£1500 per month after expenses. And that's if you owned it outright. If you had a mortgage, you'd be making a loss. Can you please explain how you came up with this figures. I'd buy 10 houses if your figures were true. Sadly, they are not.

An Edinburgh property worth 200k gives an income of 800 per month.

Sadly thats only 4% I got a better return on the SET last year.

Like I said; its all about property and location selection. With the leverage of the mortgage I make around 30% on the cash I put in. + the capital increase = much better than the stock market. Although its true the SET did just have a great 3 years, it could easily turn the other way- while the demand for student housing in london or Brighton isn't going anywhere.

You're right that property investment can be very lucrative. I've done very well from it myself. I was just saying it's not possible in London the way you originally said. But now you're talking about property development, which is entirely different. It would be extremely difficult for a first-timer to buyer the right property and renovate it, as you did in Brighton. So I don't think it's good advice for a teacher in Thailand. It's also not something that's suitable for a lot of people. I have seen plenty try, and mess it up completely. But I think property is definitely a good long-term investment. But you can never tell. Things can change quickly.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

You described yourself as a mechanic "masquerading as a teacher" although your self-adulation states that you are now quite good. Wonderful. To be earning as much as 30,000 baht per month you must be one of the best.

Thinking about it, I actually do have some advice for you...stop fraudulently being a teacher.

The OP does have the merit of being able to string together four words to make a sentence, which is a hell of a lot more than many other farangs working as "teachers" I have come across here can do. It's more than a lot of posters on TV can do also. And I wont even mention real estate agents etc.

So, unlike most other farangs trying to live/work/scratch a living in Thailand who haven't been brought in on a fixed contract by a multinational, he seems to be both competent and suitably qualified for his job. If I had children (God forbid) I would not object to him teaching them.

[mattk1]

Hi guys,

I am very pleased I asked this question on here with all the very helpful replies! It has certainly given me a lot to think about and I like the fact the some of you are against going back to the UK and some of you are for it. As for me, I'm stil undecided but I know as long as I have my family with me I can be happy anywhere when it comes down to it.

Mccw, thank you for the detailed reply. I had no idea about the changes that have been made to the process of applying for a settlement visa and it's a bit worrying. So many other expats I've spoken to have all said it should be easy for my wife but I guess they were unaware of the new conditions. I can understand why they have done this, probably too many past cases of people abusing the system. I will have to just cross each bridge as I come to it I guess. By the way I wish your wife the best of luck with her citizenship.

The idea of buying property is something I've thought about before but for some reason I was under the impression property development as a way to make money had took a nosedive. When I was still in the UK I used to love watching Property Ladder and a lot of the other copy shows but this was back before the financial mess happened. I do have a lot to think about now and will start getting some ideas down on paper. My parents may be able to help if I put it to them in a similar way that you did. It sounds to me like you have spent the last 4 years working hard to get yourself sorted out and I am very pleased to hear its worked out well for you!

As for learning to speak Thai, I have already booked on to a 10 hour course to get me started. I have been self studying and passively learning since I've been here but I realised I am one of those people who needs formal training if I'm to get anywhere near a good standard.

To davejones, thanks for your reply. A true success story by the sound of it, well done! The figures you are earning now are pretty impressive and you give the university route an extra point in the weighing up what decision I will make. Are you working in Thailand now or back in the UK? Also what degree did you complete specifically, IT is definitely an option I would be interested in at university.

To starship, thanks for your reply. Yes it is very sad news to hear of all these big stores closing down. I do keep up with the news over here and I was especially sad to hear about HMV. Even more so because I still have vouchers at home! Don't think I will be getting any use out of them any time soon.

It's shocking to hear about your hardship to find a job when you returned to England, and your niece must be feeling pretty low after all that hard study to land herself a low paid graduate job. I wish her the best of luck and to keep her chin up. Perhaps work outside of Europe would be more prosperous for her? What are your plans back in the UK if you don't mind me asking? Are you there as a stop gap and preparing to come back here or are you now settled down?

Back to what you said about the visa for my wife, I have read through the UKBA website and I now understand that it isn't going to be a straight forward task at all. Things really have tightened up but I may be ok with the employment situation if needs must. I have an uncle who is the boss of a machining company who could help me out if I asked him. It wouldn't be ideal but it would enable to us at least get over there.

To longtimelurker, thank you for the reply. I have chatted to a few other expats out here who are working in the oil and gas trade but everytime I ask them about jobs and how to get in, they tell me it's a closed shop and they can't even get family members in! I know they earn good money but they also complain about being away from their families. I would have to take that into account also if I did manage to find a way in. I have actually already applied for some O&G jobs and will continue to look, you just never know what might happen.

To chainarong, thanks for the reply. Aviation certainly does interest me and I today I emailed Virgin Atlantic about their Aviation Engineering Program. They offer training at their establishment in Crawley. It will cost money, I think around £7k from what I read but will wait for them to get back to me. I'm basically enquring about anything and everything and the suggestions I've received on here have been really helpful. What is it you do if you don't mind me asking? Tell me to mind my own business if you like of course, I won't take offence.

To blackpuddingbertha, thank you for the support! I would hope the poster who said that will now realise that although I don't hold a degree in education, I do take my job seriously and give 100% to my students. I often go beyond my call of duty to make sure the kids I teach are understanding what I'm teaching.

[mccw]

Thanks Mattk1

You sound like a good bloke and I wish you the best of luck in what ever you choose to do.

Just to be clear about the property, I'm suggesting renovating and subdividing (maybe a stud wall here and an extra door way there) not anything major complicated. The point being to take a cheap run down 3 bed and split say a large 5.5m up living room in to 2 rooms = 5 bedrooms and dining room or large open plan diner kitchen to be the living room. So 3bed house comes to be 5bed, so for rental you get a lot more per month with the same money just a 3 bed would have cost. Nothing complicated or difficult about it, you just need to view many many properties to find the right size/ layout that works. Ex council houses are good because they have big room sizes and are cheaper price but the student tenant will pay almost the same rent as another house. The increased rental yield is what raises the capital value of the house when selling it on to rental investors.

"Development" in the traditional sense, like the homes under hammer, property ladder, etc, is a difficult game right now I'm not involved in, but did a couple before the crash. It seems because of those program's people now buy at auction to save money renovate and live in, so they can out bid / push prices up for developers because they don't need to make a big profit out of it. Also house prices could drop on economic outlook- we're about to head in to a storm I think. If you can time it right and snap up a distressed place all the better; but if your the wrong side of it then this rental way I'm suggesting will still give you great monthly returns and you can afford to sit tight and sell at your lesuire later if you need to when markets turned; but the buy, fix and sell way leaves you holding / paying a mortgage and risk stuck loosing money or broke, not recommending that at all.

The idea for a short course in some practical industry related skill is not a bad one. You could combine it with the property idea. Ie buy a house with the view to renovate, sub dived for student rental; but live in it while your in UK studying (so savings on rent) and do as much of the work yourself as you can (another good thing with student rental is it can be acceptable standard ie doesn't need to be perfect like a point to wow for a sale. Just a lick of paint and laminate floors will put your place ahead of more than half of the student rental market, haha, seriously.

From all my research Brighton is one of if not the most lucrative and high demand place in the whole of the UK. It's a nice place to live also.

Specifically the ex council areas of Bevendean and Moulscoombe up near the Uni of Sussex.

I don't know too much about the Thai jobs market so I keep my advise mostly to this what I know about. But to see what's available I guess you can research the jobs openings in press and agencies. Just from browsing I see IT, like web and programmers;at 40-60k pm, you may aswell stick with the teaching.

But, at 29 myself, I'd be interested to hear of the lucrative professions open to those with the right training myself.

From talking to Oil and Gas people they say the Asians are educated and will do the same work for half the money now and the older westerners are only in the game because they were there in the early days and have lots of experience now. I guess the same applies to most technical professions. Pilots are in high demand though; friend of mine completed his training for Cathay pacific a couple of years ago; he was 26 when he applied, had a degree from UK then spent a few years traveling with odd jobs, nothing related; but he passed the aptitude test to get on the training course and now he's earning 50k £ plus staying all over the world at companies expense. Great for him as no family but; Personally these jobs involving weeks or months every year away from my family I think I'd rather find a different way to make money or accept less to be stay together.

[mccw]

(Crawley is easily commutable from Brighton)

[fletchsmile]

Mattk1

One option you may want to consider instead of going back to university to do another degree is a PGCE to become a teacher. You have some interest in teaching already, and you said you also have a degree. The training can be a year. I thought about it myself at one point. The following website may be of interest, as well as the FAQs on the second link. there's loads of good info on there

http://www.education...d-training/pgce

http://www.education...eacher.aspx#a23

Some ways it may fit you include, you can apply for bursaries. You don't necessarily need to pay up front. After 1 year you'd have a profession. You could then continue teaching in the UK. They mentioned a starting salary of GBP 23k, and you'd probably start building pension rights of 1/80 i.e for every year you work you get 1/80 of salary etc.

The interesting thing about it, is if you had formal training and a real UK teaching qualification + Uk real experience, then a job in a few years back in Thailand in an international school would be an option. That would probably pay THB 90k up (or say 3 times now) and very reasonable compared to where you are now. Also they often let you send your kids to the same school for free. That's a massive bonus, and worth say THB 300k - 500k or more per year per child. So you might have an OK life in Thailand with a good international school education for your kids thrown in for free.

If something you were interested in, I guess you'd have to look for something connected to your first degree if secondary school teaching a subject. For primary school I guess your degree wouldn't matter too much.

Best wishes anyway

Fletch

Edit: BTW

(1) On the state pension, the retirement age is moving upwards from 65. 68 or more is a more likely retirement age for you to get a state pension, so 41 years+ away not 38.

(2) On a 1/80th pension scheme. This is in addition to the state scheme, and is for teachers in govt schools. What it means is that if your salary is 24k, for every year you've worked at retirement age you get 1/80th or 300k. So work 5 years and that would be 1,500 per year at retirement age. (Obviously your salary will go up over the years, but that's the basic concept) That would be waiting for you even if you come back to Thailand in addition to whatever state pension you might get.

Edited January 27, 2013 by fletchsmile

[Ruperts]

If you're interested in IT you could start learning a couple of programming languages in your spare time without even leaving your current job. Once you've got to grips with it you could start offering yourself out as a freelancer online. It will be slow and poorly paid to begin with, but with enough determination you could build yourself a decent reputation and get repeat customers. Then when you've built a reasonable portfolio of work you can look at applying for full time programming positions if you don't want to carry on as a freelancer. If successful, you won't have to leave Thailand, but personally I would be wary of the long term viability of such a career.

What's your current degree in? Could you not start a career based on that? The job market in the UK is not great but with some geographical flexibility and persistence you should be able to find an entry level position and build from there.

Otherwise if you want to go back and learn something else, consider a post-graduate conversion course rather than a new degree. You can do these in a varierty of subjects. They are shorter and more vocational than a standard degree. Another thing to consider, if you already have a degree then I'm not sure how much student finance you are entitled to. The fees aren't prohibitive if you can get student loans to cover them, but if you can't get the loans then you're talking about a large upfront investment.

Both of the last two options rule out Thailand for a good while. I think you need to decide what's more important to you - building a long term stable career, or living in Thailand. The two aren't mutually exclusive of course, but they do clash especially at the bottom of the ladder. Look five years into the future, do you still want to be struggling as a teacher on a 30k salary in Thailand, or do you want to have become qualified and gained a good amount of experience in a solid profession which will serve you well for the rest of your life, and which may eventually lead you back to Thailand or at least somewhere close? It's a no-brainer for me - short term pain for medium/long term gain. It will be difficult to begin with especially with your wife and child to consider, but nothing worth having ever comes easy.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ruperts

[ClareQuilty]

To be earning as much as 30,000 baht per month you must be one of the best.

Friend, qualified teachers get around 100,000-160,000 baht a month. 30,000 is a kind of pittance, typically attracting someone who is already retired with a pension to live on, or perhaps a backpacker just doing a 'year abroad' for a lark before heading back to his 'real life', with regular remittances from mum in the meantime.

[mccw]

PGCE is a good idea

[mattk1]

Just to be clear about the property, I'm suggesting renovating and subdividing (maybe a stud wall here and an extra door way there) not anything major complicated.

This is all excellent advice mccw, thank you very much for going into so much detail. I have actually printed your post which will help me put forward the idea to my parents. I think my mum will like the idea but the problem will be convincing my dad. He is very old school in the way he thinks and is very stubborn but wants the best for us all so I reckon I could get him on board with the idea. I will let you know how that goes, and if it's ok I may need to ask you a couple more specific questions about the property idea?

From talking to Oil and Gas people they say the Asians are educated and will do the same work for half the money now and the older westerners are only in the game because they were there in the early days and have lots of experience now.

This is totally true. I was talking with some of the other teachers at the school I work in and one of them has a friend working in the O&G industry. He gave him a call this afternoon to see if he could find anything out and basically said the same thing as you did. It really is by the sound of it a closed shop and only the guys who've been here long enough have a chance. Unless there is more opportunity elsewhere in South East Asia? Who knows, I will continue asking anyone and everyone I meet haha!

Pilots are in high demand though;

Now that would a nice job for me. Think of the discount I could get on flights, lol. I have just recently booked a ticket back to the UK in April for me my wife and the baby and it came in at nearly £1800. That is a lot of money in my books.

Hi there fletchsmile, thank you for the reply. You have offered some excellent advice in regard to doing my PGCE. As it happens my sister has not long started her PGCE back in England. Last year before she attended the interview and the tests you must complete before being accepted, she said that if she unsuccessful then she would come out to Thailand and teach for a year to get some experience.

I can't remember the full details of the allowance she was entitled to but what I can remember is that it worked out she was almost just as well off from working her full time job as a hospital receptionist. This is another avenue I will check out, the only issue I can think of is sorting out how I could my wife and baby to come with me. With the new visa rules and conditions it is something I will have to give a lot of thought to. Like someone said earlier though, not everything is easy and some things just have to work hard for. Are you out here working in an international school yourself?

To ruperts, hi and thank you for your reply! Nice idea about learning some programming. A friend of mine who is keen on this also (but not a professional) reckons if I learnt the programming app code software (I forget the name now) I could be onto a good thing. Are you involved with IT too?

if you want to go back and learn something else, consider a post-graduate conversion course rather than a new degree. You can do these in a varierty of subjects. They are shorter and more vocational than a standard degree.

Cheers for that information which I was not aware of. This could prove to be a valuable time saver depending on which route I decide to go down. As for the student loans, I am also not sure what I may be entitled to. I would have to speak to someone from the providing company to see where I would stand with regard to this. I wish I had enrolled in a course before the fees went up but such is life and there's no point moaning about it now.

"I think you need to decide what's more important to you - building a long term stable career, or living in Thailand."

I used to be in the mindset that I would do anything to stay in Thailand but to be honest that has all changed now. I dol like living here but the weather, as much as some people love the heat, I am not so good at dealing with it. It's fine if you can sit around on a beach all day or in a nice AC hotel, but when you must work it starts to drain you very quickly. I am loving the weather right now where as most of the Thai's I see are all wrapped up in coats, lol. Short-term pain for long-term gain is definitley the fram of mind I am in now that I am number three in the rank of priorities - my son and wife being ahead of me of course.

Nicely put Clare Quilty, thank you!

[fletchsmile]

....

Hi there fletchsmile, thank you for the reply. You have offered some excellent advice in regard to doing my PGCE. As it happens my sister has not long started her PGCE back in England. Last year before she attended the interview and the tests you must complete before being accepted, she said that if she unsuccessful then she would come out to Thailand and teach for a year to get some experience.

I can't remember the full details of the allowance she was entitled to but what I can remember is that it worked out she was almost just as well off from working her full time job as a hospital receptionist. This is another avenue I will check out, the only issue I can think of is sorting out how I could my wife and baby to come with me. With the new visa rules and conditions it is something I will have to give a lot of thought to. Like someone said earlier though, not everything is easy and some things just have to work hard for. Are you out here working in an international school yourself?

....

I'm not working in an international school. I came out this way with a background in accountancy, risk, banking and finance, so already had a trade. In this region I started in Singapore - a great hub, and then ended up in other Asian countries. This is a good way round to start in Asia - in the hubs and then bringing expertise to satellite countries like Thailand, Indo etc

My brother and sister-in-law are both in teaching the UK. I have a TEFL myself from Ban Phe, which I did during a career break, about 10 years back and have always had an interest in teaching. A couple of years back I looked into the PGCE route for the following reasons:

- I enjoy teaching and coaching people

- Much better work life balance - 13 weeks holiday instead of 4, and not counting the shorter daily hours - so more time with family

- We have 2 kids, I'd be able to use my teaching skills to better support them in their education

- The possibility of free education in a quality establishment if teaching in an international school - School fees are our biggest outlay these days. In Thailand we paid around THB 350k each a year for 2 youngsters. For the schools I would pick later that would be easily over THB 500k each and more likely THB1.5mio+ all in. To pay that out of earnings after tax your looking at a value pushing THB 1mio each or THB 2mio you'd need to earn! So the accountant in me sees that

- So really the salary they pay, at say 100k/month up starting out in international school in Thailand, although not fantastic is more than reasonable with free schooling, better work life balance, enjoyment and personal reward thrown in.

Both my brother and sister-in-law said a PGCE is very hard work. That wouldn't have bothered me, given the hours I used to do sometimes, and especially if you know it's for the family.

The wife and kids would need support while studying. Plus with a foreign wife she would need support settling, which you have to be mindful of while trying to study.

Also they said a new PGCE isn't as good as someone who did a 4 year teacher training BEd like they did (well they would really ), which I can see makes sense. The first couple of years are the hardest they say after qualifying, with a relatively low salary, which mccw points out an estimate of 24k-30k needed to just get by. But compared to a university degree you'd be earning after year 1. A couple of years later the work is easier and you're in the swing. Then the experience is there and then maybe back in Thailand with a trade.... I'd expect if you described your route to teaching, the dedication, and your Thai wife and commitment to Thailand, then that would be of interest to schools here. There is often quite high turnover in teaching even in international schools, so showing a family commitment to stay is good for them to

A tough few years in the UK for a more secure future... For me it was more about the lifestyle than money though, and the idea of doing something I enjoyed, particularly if holidays and work linked to the kids.

The other thing to do of course, is keep doing a professional job teaching while looking for something else. Plenty of people fail, but plenty of people make it sticking it out, networking, making contacts and friends and then taking a job in a completely different field, combined with hard work, dedication and professional attitude as someone people can trust

Edited January 28, 2013 by fletchsmile

[yoshiwara]

You have a Design degree? Where from and what class? 2:1, 2:2? How rigorous was the content? and why didn't you follow through on graduation?

[simon43]

I agree with many of Fletchsmile's comments. My own background and BSc/MSc degrees are in telecoms, and I worked for many successful years in that industry sector.

In 2002, I moved from the UK to Thailand and built some small hotels in Phuket. Those businesses do provide my Thai wife and ex with incomes, but I found myself with a lot of spare time on my hands.

Many years ago I obtained a TEFL qualification and 'stored it away' for a rainy day.

Last year, at 53 years old, I thought about teaching to fill my time, but the salaries on offer in Thailand for unqualified teachers, (ie, without a national teaching certificate [QTS in the UK], or Masters in education), were pitiful, and those salaries were taxed, plus additional expense for work permit etc.

So I decided to teach outside of Thailand, where expenses are less and salaries are more. I currently teach in Myanmar, where I teach both primary age and adults. I work hard, am a competent teacher, and my average monthly take-home salary is about 80,000 baht, tax-free.

Now, having realised that my teaching skills can support me very well for many years to come, (provided that I am flexible about teaching location), I've decided to create a more solid base for my new career by studying for a higher degree in education.

Did you know that as an EU citizen, there is an educational MA by distance-learning available for you to study for the attractive tuition fee of exactly zero baht!?

This is a real MA course, not some degree mill. Google 'MA Adult Learning & Global Change' . I'm due to start this MA in a few months from now.

There are other 'real' educational qualifications that you can study online, which will certainly help you (at your tender age!) to assure yourself of a reasonably-paid career.

If I can do this at 53 years old, then you should find it easy

Simon