How Thaksin Rules Thailand With Skype And Instant Messenger

[Pimay1]

Have I missed something here?

Seems to me like Mr Thaksin enjoys the support of about 1% of the ex-pat community in Thailand and the other 99% think he's some kind of power crazy criminal looking for the star spot in the next James Bond film.

I've lived in Thailand, before, during, after, and back again to the Shinawtra era. My experience is that we (ex-pats and Thais alike) were and still are better off under Mr Thaksin's leadership than any other government during the past 30 years. If you don't agree, can anyone give me any good reasons to think otherwise?

There are some points to be made here.

1.Thai Visa (TV) has many expatriate members, most of whose political opinions are unknown.

2.I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

3.There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

4.Look at Thai Visa's advertisers and that will tell you a great deal about the core membership.

5.There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case.There are some exceptions but not many

6.Conversely the unelected elites seem to attract a great deal of support from less well educated expatriates of the lower and lower middle classes.Again there are some exceptions.

7.I would be cautious about attributing Thailand's performance to politicians of any stripe.The more important factors are a dynamic private sector and a very capable higher bureaucracy, particularly in the key economic and financial departments.

Please tell us which one or multiple categories above you consider yourself to fit into jayboy. Or if none of the above just where do you fit in?

[scorecard]

Have I missed something here?

Seems to me like Mr Thaksin enjoys the support of about 1% of the ex-pat community in Thailand and the other 99% think he's some kind of power crazy criminal looking for the star spot in the next James Bond film.

I've lived in Thailand, before, during, after, and back again to the Shinawtra era. My experience is that we (ex-pats and Thais alike) were and still are better off under Mr Thaksin's leadership than any other government during the past 30 years. If you don't agree, can anyone give me any good reasons to think otherwise?

There are some points to be made here.

1.Thai Visa (TV) has many expatriate members, most of whose political opinions are unknown.

2.I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

3.There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

4.Look at Thai Visa's advertisers and that will tell you a great deal about the core membership.

5.There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case.There are some exceptions but not many

6.Conversely the unelected elites seem to attract a great deal of support from less well educated expatriates of the lower and lower middle classes.Again there are some exceptions.

7.I would be cautious about attributing Thailand's performance to politicians of any stripe.The more important factors are a dynamic private sector and a very capable higher bureaucracy, particularly in the key economic and financial departments.

Please tell us which one or multiple categories above you consider yourself to fit into jayboy. Or if none of the above just where do you fit in?

Well jayboy, IMHO your point #5 is correct if you mean that many expats agree the gap between the rich and the poor is way too big, many Thai's have a pretty dismal quality of life (survival and not much more for many), and IMHO many expats would agree that there is severe lack of justice, and lack of opportunity to be heard and to contibute, and often very obvious double standards.

But IMHO that doesn't mean the vast majority of expats (you seem to be saying 99%) would agree with the red shirt tactics over the last several years, in fact IMHO most expats would agree they have never displayed any detailed objective nor any structured approach to gaining change - in fact the red shirt tactics are not much more than a paid mob. And a smokescreen.

On the other hand are there some red shirt followers who could provide and probably keen to provide some structured and logical discussion? Yes of course, but where are they?

IMHO they are deliberately swamped by the loud mouth folks on stage who espouse nothing more than hate messages whilst playing doctored tapes. And please don't suggest madame thida as a logical beacon.

Edited January 29, 2013 by scorecard

[Buchholz]

All governments cheat and steal in office, some more than others. They all make appointments to suit including members of their own families, parties and affiliated organisations. The Democrats have been caught with their hand in the till more than once in the 90's and are still have Chuan behind the scenes (who incidentally has a corruption conviction to his name and Abhisit is his acolyte) and the military took their recent junta spending to uncontrolled and unparalleled levels.

Actually, the Democrats didn't take military spending "to uncontrolled and unparalleled levels".

They actually reduced military spending.

http://www.google.co...of gdp thailand

Just hypocritical scurrilous hot air.

Can we see your evidence for that scurrilous accusation or it is just hot air as usual?

Edited January 29, 2013 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case

Without point 6 and especially the almost obligatory 'unelected elites' your post would be a much better one. Of course if you feel strongly about that particular point I'm sure I can dig up some highly respectable gentlemen who supported the 'red-shirt' cause. Wasn't there a nice Aussie bloke and a equally well behaved Englishman ?

Jeff Savage and Conor Purcell were both excellent examples of the senior corporate executives from the higher status and better educated expat community living in a separate world that never participated on Thaivisa and were quite sympathetic to the Red Shirt case.

[jayboy]

I will reply in one post.

Rubi Yes I agree that there were some rather strange farang out on the streets with the redshirts.But in a sense that's what one would expect.If I had been asked five years ago what kind of farang would support the redshirt movement I would have said working/lower middle class, those who had Isaan/Northern families and a scattering of left leaning intellectuals.It hasn't turned out that way.

Whybother.With that kind of response I suppose I have to say my Point 6 comes to mind.

Pimay1.It's irrelevant where I fit in.I was making a general observation

Scorecard.I think you misunderstand me.There is a significant difference between rich and poor in Thailand but that's only partly what drives the redshirts.In my view it's at least as much about the breakdown of deference and political enfranchisement.Thailand's rural hinterland is greatly more prosperous these days and revolutions (I use the word loosely) take place when things are getting better not when there is a quiescent and silent lumpenproletariat.I am certainly not saying 99% of expatriates support redshirt aims/tactics.Most wouldn't really be qualified to give more than a tabloid type opinion anyway.What I am saying is that the elite (yes I understand the irony of using that word) expatriates are much more sympathetic to redshirt aims or at very least take a much more nuanced approach than the one note right wing cyber warriors on this forum.(I accept there aren't that many of them)

Buchholz.You seem a bit muddled here but see my respnse to Rubi which addresses your comment

[Lancelot]

The charges brought by the coup makers where and are legit....

Pray do share with us the legitimate, unbiased charges

Here's one: http://www.thaivisa....gainst-thaksin/

Former PM Thaksin not appearing for a court case does not excuse the fact that he was removed from office by an illegal coup.

[scorecard]

I will reply in one post.

Rubi Yes I agree that there were some rather strange farang out on the streets with the redshirts.But in a sense that's what one would expect.If I had been asked five years ago what kind of farang would support the redshirt movement I would have said working/lower middle class, those who had Isaan/Northern families and a scattering of left leaning intellectuals.It hasn't turned out that way.

Whybother.With that kind of response I suppose I have to say my Point 6 comes to mind.

Pimay1.It's irrelevant where I fit in.I was making a general observation

Scorecard.I think you misunderstand me.There is a significant difference between rich and poor in Thailand but that's only partly what drives the redshirts.In my view it's at least as much about the breakdown of deference and political enfranchisement.Thailand's rural hinterland is greatly more prosperous these days and revolutions (I use the word loosely) take place when things are getting better not when there is a quiescent and silent lumpenproletariat.I am certainly not saying 99% of expatriates support redshirt aims/tactics.Most wouldn't really be qualified to give more than a tabloid type opinion anyway.What I am saying is that the elite (yes I understand the irony of using that word) expatriates are much more sympathetic to redshirt aims or at very least take a much more nuanced approach than the one note right wing cyber warriors on this forum.(I accept there aren't that many of them)

Buchholz.You seem a bit muddled here but see my respnse to Rubi which addresses your comment

And I would perhaps respond my making exactly the same comment again jayboy, but I won't waste my time.

[rubl]

Rubi Yes I agree that there were some rather strange farang out on the streets with the redshirts.But in a sense that's what one would expect.If I had been asked five years ago what kind of farang would support the redshirt movement I would have said working/lower middle class, those who had Isaan/Northern families and a scattering of left leaning intellectuals.It hasn't turned out that way.

Jayboy old chap, you have a tendency to talk in terms favoured by left-leaning intellectuals in England and maybe even in other countries.

As someone educated at one of Englands finer universities (no, not Hull) you should have understood my reference to the two farang 'hooligans' parading as red-shirts was a bit tongue-in-cheek. What was serious was my observation that your constant urge to throw-around some semi-intellectual phrases as 'unelected elite', 'up or down classes', etc., doesn't really help discussions here. It distracts to a point where your opinion written here gets thrown out because of the 'slogan like' phrases rather than be accepted as a reasonably sound, well phrased and thought through observation. IMHO of course, but comments from others seem to indicate I'm not far off the mark.

Actually, re-reading the point 6 with 'unelected elites' and having an eye on the topic 'How Thaksin rules Thailand via skype', I still think you meant 'non-red-shirt sympathetics', but maybe just maybe you referred to Thaksin when you wrote

'6.Conversely the unelected elites seem to attract a great deal of support from less well educated expatriates of the lower and lower middle classes.Again there are some exceptions."

Edited January 29, 2013 by rubl

[whybother]

Pray do share with us the legitimate, unbiased charges

Here's one: http://www.thaivisa....gainst-thaksin/

Former PM Thaksin not appearing for a court case does not excuse the fact that he was removed from office by an illegal coup.

You asked for legitimate unbiased charges. There are plenty of them.

The fact that he was removed from his care-taker PM position by a coup (is there such a thing as a legal coup? why bother with calling it illegal?) doesn't mean that he isn't a criminal.

[whybother]

I will reply in one post.

Rubi Yes I agree that there were some rather strange farang out on the streets with the redshirts.But in a sense that's what one would expect.If I had been asked five years ago what kind of farang would support the redshirt movement I would have said working/lower middle class, those who had Isaan/Northern families and a scattering of left leaning intellectuals.It hasn't turned out that way.

Whybother.With that kind of response I suppose I have to say my Point 6 comes to mind.

Pimay1.It's irrelevant where I fit in.I was making a general observation

Scorecard.I think you misunderstand me.There is a significant difference between rich and poor in Thailand but that's only partly what drives the redshirts.In my view it's at least as much about the breakdown of deference and political enfranchisement.Thailand's rural hinterland is greatly more prosperous these days and revolutions (I use the word loosely) take place when things are getting better not when there is a quiescent and silent lumpenproletariat.I am certainly not saying 99% of expatriates support redshirt aims/tactics.Most wouldn't really be qualified to give more than a tabloid type opinion anyway.What I am saying is that the elite (yes I understand the irony of using that word) expatriates are much more sympathetic to redshirt aims or at very least take a much more nuanced approach than the one note right wing cyber warriors on this forum.(I accept there aren't that many of them)

Buchholz.You seem a bit muddled here but see my respnse to Rubi which addresses your comment

... and my response to that would be a simple BS.

It's complete BS that anyone can label most supporters or objectors of any side as educated or uneducated, rich or poor, or anything else.

[jayboy]

I will reply in one post.

Rubi Yes I agree that there were some rather strange farang out on the streets with the redshirts.But in a sense that's what one would expect.If I had been asked five years ago what kind of farang would support the redshirt movement I would have said working/lower middle class, those who had Isaan/Northern families and a scattering of left leaning intellectuals.It hasn't turned out that way.

Whybother.With that kind of response I suppose I have to say my Point 6 comes to mind.

Pimay1.It's irrelevant where I fit in.I was making a general observation

Scorecard.I think you misunderstand me.There is a significant difference between rich and poor in Thailand but that's only partly what drives the redshirts.In my view it's at least as much about the breakdown of deference and political enfranchisement.Thailand's rural hinterland is greatly more prosperous these days and revolutions (I use the word loosely) take place when things are getting better not when there is a quiescent and silent lumpenproletariat.I am certainly not saying 99% of expatriates support redshirt aims/tactics.Most wouldn't really be qualified to give more than a tabloid type opinion anyway.What I am saying is that the elite (yes I understand the irony of using that word) expatriates are much more sympathetic to redshirt aims or at very least take a much more nuanced approach than the one note right wing cyber warriors on this forum.(I accept there aren't that many of them)

Buchholz.You seem a bit muddled here but see my respnse to Rubi which addresses your comment

... and my response to that would be a simple BS.

It's complete BS that anyone can label most supporters or objectors of any side as educated or uneducated, rich or poor, or anything else.

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

[whybother]

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

You've got no idea whether I fit into one of your categories or if I'm an exception to one of them.

[jayboy]

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

You've got no idea whether I fit into one of your categories or if I'm an exception to one of them.

It's fairly straight forward to determine intellect,social class and analytical ability over time,especially with prolific posters.However I don't want to dwell on this.

[philw]

I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case

Without point 6 and especially the almost obligatory 'unelected elites' your post would be a much better one. Of course if you feel strongly about that particular point I'm sure I can dig up some highly respectable gentlemen who supported the 'red-shirt' cause. Wasn't there a nice Aussie bloke and a equally well behaved Englishman ?

Jeff Savage and Conor Purcell were both excellent examples of the senior corporate executives from the higher status and better educated expat community living in a separate world that never participated on Thaivisa and were quite sympathetic to the Red Shirt case.

Absolutely agree with you BX and equally, how encouraging it is that the current PM has international recognition with her meetings with numerous world leaders, royalty and perhaps some sense of an accord with Prem.

Not quite derailed by a couple of insignnificant farang nutters, eh??

[whybother]

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

You've got no idea whether I fit into one of your categories or if I'm an exception to one of them.

It's fairly straight forward to determine intellect,social class and analytical ability over time,especially with prolific posters.However I don't want to dwell on this.

It pretty straight forward to see BS too.

[Buchholz]

I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case

Without point 6 and especially the almost obligatory 'unelected elites' your post would be a much better one. Of course if you feel strongly about that particular point I'm sure I can dig up some highly respectable gentlemen who supported the 'red-shirt' cause. Wasn't there a nice Aussie bloke and a equally well behaved Englishman ?

Jeff Savage and Conor Purcell were both excellent examples of the senior corporate executives from the higher status and better educated expat community living in a separate world that never participated on Thaivisa and were quite sympathetic to the Red Shirt case.

Absolutely agree with you BX

It's good to see we can agree on the characteristics that match jayboy's description of farang Red Shirt sympathizers, but..

BX?

Is that some sort of new abbreviation?

.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Buchholz

[Tatsujin]

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

You've got no idea whether I fit into one of your categories or if I'm an exception to one of them.

It's fairly straight forward to determine intellect,social class and analytical ability over time,especially with prolific posters.However I don't want to dwell on this.

Oh, I'd love to hear your analysis of "who" or "what" we all are in your opinion based on our previous postings. There may be some "general" things you can glean, but other than that it's pure guesswork.

I bet you don't even come close to getting me correct. What social class am I from? What education did I receive? How old am I? What work do I do here? How long have I lived here?

Edited January 30, 2013 by Tatsujin

[hellodolly]

Have I missed something here?

Seems to me like Mr Thaksin enjoys the support of about 1% of the ex-pat community in Thailand and the other 99% think he's some kind of power crazy criminal looking for the star spot in the next James Bond film.

I've lived in Thailand, before, during, after, and back again to the Shinawtra era. My experience is that we (ex-pats and Thais alike) were and still are better off under Mr Thaksin's leadership than any other government during the past 30 years. If you don't agree, can anyone give me any good reasons to think otherwise?

There are some points to be made here.

1.Thai Visa (TV) has many expatriate members, most of whose political opinions are unknown.

2.I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

3.There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

4.Look at Thai Visa's advertisers and that will tell you a great deal about the core membership.

5.There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case.There are some exceptions but not many

6.Conversely the unelected elites seem to attract a great deal of support from less well educated expatriates of the lower and lower middle classes.Again there are some exceptions.

7.I would be cautious about attributing Thailand's performance to politicians of any stripe.The more important factors are a dynamic private sector and a very capable higher bureaucracy, particularly in the key economic and financial departments.

The term "BS" comes to mind.

TonyR101

conveniently omits that during Thaksins tenure the whole world was doing great. Yingluck could have done an acceptable job. Probably never before had the economy offered so many chances for corruption. (not saying Thaksin partook of it )

[hellodolly]

The charges brought by the coup makers where and are legit....

Pray do share with us the legitimate, unbiased charges

Here's one: http://www.thaivisa....gainst-thaksin/

Former PM Thaksin not appearing for a court case does not excuse the fact that he was removed from office by an illegal coup.

You seem to have a problem with reality you8 asked for an example and received one. What has it got to do with a coup? Me thinks you are using red shirt schooling 101 here. Not exactly a strong starting point.

[hellodolly]

I do not really recognise the rather simplistic spin on my comments.True there are many exceptions but general patterns can be identified, as indeed you have demonstrated with your responses.

You've got no idea whether I fit into one of your categories or if I'm an exception to one of them.

It's fairly straight forward to determine intellect,social class and analytical ability over time,especially with prolific posters.However I don't want to dwell on this.

Oh, I'd love to hear your analysis of "who" or "what" we all are in your opinion based on our previous postings. There may be some "general" things you can glean, but other than that it's pure guesswork.

I bet you don't even come close to getting me correct. What social class am I from? What education did I receive? How old am I? What work do I do here? How long have I lived here?

Not sure if he could match me either. but one does get an idea of a poster if they have seen the poster's comments often enough. for instance I am defiantly anti red shirt and anti PT. I also think Thaksin is not only a convicted crimanal but a world class criminal nothing petty about him.

Now the one thing I have learned about jayboy is he has a lot of good points but he mixes them in with his own bias and when found out disappears from the thread. This indicates to me he comes from a world where every thing must be tightley controlled.

But ha this is Thai Visa and who knows if a poster is showing us the same face they show every one around them.

[whybother]

Not sure if he could match me either. but one does get an idea of a poster if they have seen the poster's comments often enough. for instance I am defiantly anti red shirt and anti PT. I also think Thaksin is not only a convicted crimanal but a world class criminal nothing petty about him.

Now the one thing I have learned about jayboy is he has a lot of good points but he mixes them in with his own bias and when found out disappears from the thread. This indicates to me he comes from a world where every thing must be tightley controlled.

But ha this is Thai Visa and who knows if a poster is showing us the same face they show every one around them.

It's easy to get an idea of peoples opinions and biases from their posting, and you can get an idea of other details like age and location, but to know their social and education background ... pfft.

[AleG]

It's easy to get an idea of peoples opinions and biases from their posting, and you can get an idea of other details like age and location, but to know their social and education background ... pfft.

Of course us unemducated yokels can't, it takes a person of exceptional brilliance to do so.

[Tatsujin]

It's fairly straight forward to determine intellect,social class and analytical ability over time,especially with prolific posters.However I don't want to dwell on this.

Oh, I'd love to hear your analysis of "who" or "what" we all are in your opinion based on our previous postings. There may be some "general" things you can glean, but other than that it's pure guesswork.

I bet you don't even come close to getting me correct. What social class am I from? What education did I receive? How old am I? What work do I do here? How long have I lived here?

Not sure if he could match me either. but one does get an idea of a poster if they have seen the poster's comments often enough. for instance I am defiantly anti red shirt and anti PT. I also think Thaksin is not only a convicted crimanal but a world class criminal nothing petty about him.

Now the one thing I have learned about jayboy is he has a lot of good points but he mixes them in with his own bias and when found out disappears from the thread. This indicates to me he comes from a world where every thing must be tightley controlled.

But ha this is Thai Visa and who knows if a poster is showing us the same face they show every one around them.

I am not really anti-anything . . . or perhaps more accurately I am anti-everything . . . I think both the "reds" and the "yellows" are as bad as each other and I think Thaksin is a thief of the highest magnitude. But that's just my opinion.

As for what "face" people show on here, I think many have an "online" persona which isn't always reflective of their real life persona. For the others, their online persona is exactly what they are in real life.

[Nickymaster]

Since the last few pages are all of topic, I might as well ad something (of topic).

There are basically 2 groups of posters on TV.

One group supports the rule of law and is educated, another group supports Thaksin is un-educated and brainwashed by their Thai wife/gf.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Nickymaster

[jayboy]

It's easy to get an idea of peoples opinions and biases from their posting, and you can get an idea of other details like age and location, but to know their social and education background ... pfft.

I would argue precisely the opposite.Age and location one can only make an intelligent guess at.Over time however a poster's education and social class is easy to grasp.I don't even think this is even particularly controversial.Perhaps one should add a caveat to theeffect it is easier to be precise about a culture one is very familiar with, in my case British.But it applies across the board, at least with native English speakers.

[jayboy]

Since the last few pages are all of topic, I might as well ad something (of topic).

There are basically 2 groups of posters on TV.

One group supports the rule of law and is educated, another group supports Thaksin is un-educated and brainwashed by their Thai wife.

If you say so though your case would be more compelling if you could make the statement without laughable errors of grammar and syntax.

[Nickymaster]

It's easy to get an idea of peoples opinions and biases from their posting, and you can get an idea of other details like age and location, but to know their social and education background ... pfft.

I would argue precisely the opposite.Age and location one can only make an intelligent guess at.Over time however a poster's education and social class is easy to grasp.I don't even think this is even particularly controversial.Perhaps one should add a caveat to theeffect it is easier to be precise about a culture one is very familiar with, in my case British.But it applies across the board, at least with native English speakers.

"at least with native English speakers" aahh, thanks buddy.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Melyn]

It's easy to get an idea of peoples opinions and biases from their posting, and you can get an idea of other details like age and location, but to know their social and education background ... pfft.

I would argue precisely the opposite.Age and location one can only make an intelligent guess at.Over time however a poster's education and social class is easy to grasp.I don't even think this is even particularly controversial.Perhaps one should add a caveat to theeffect it is easier to be precise about a culture one is very familiar with, in my case British.But it applies across the board, at least with native English speakers.

I'm a Welshman.

What's my culture?

[scorecard]

I am not sure there is such a thing as the expatriate "community" in Thailand because the numbers are so huge.Retired/reformed sex tourists (a larger number than often conceded) and senior corporate executives live in completely separate worlds

There are thousands of expatriates (for example senior managers who have no interest in visa runs etc) who do not participate in Thai Visa or are even aware of its existence.

There is a curious paradox in that that the higher status and better educated expatriates, while dubious to say the least about Thaksin, are quite sympathetic to many aspects of the redshirt case

Without point 6 and especially the almost obligatory 'unelected elites' your post would be a much better one. Of course if you feel strongly about that particular point I'm sure I can dig up some highly respectable gentlemen who supported the 'red-shirt' cause. Wasn't there a nice Aussie bloke and a equally well behaved Englishman ?

Jeff Savage and Conor Purcell were both excellent examples of the senior corporate executives from the higher status and better educated expat community living in a separate world that never participated on Thaivisa and were quite sympathetic to the Red Shirt case.

Agree, great examples!

[Nickymaster]

Since the last few pages are all of topic, I might as well ad something (of topic).

There are basically 2 groups of posters on TV.

One group supports the rule of law and is educated, another group supports Thaksin is un-educated and brainwashed by their Thai wife.

If you say so though your case would be more compelling if you could make the statement without laughable errors of grammar and syntax.

OMG, since when does that have anything to do with education? So if your English is not good you are uneducated. You are laughable.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Nickymaster