‘ Many Foreigners Working Illegally’, Say Thai Officials

[chrisrazz]

I'm not a tour operator, but i am looking into the possibility of starting a tour business with a Thai friend. He was to be the guide, though not qualified he knows the target market and has contacts to fulfill our ideal. Guides have to undergo a training course, must be licensed and must be Thai nationals. The solution to this problem is to hire a licensed Thai tour guide just to sit on the bus and provide the necessary credentials in the event of any questions. This would hardly cost the earth. In fact, in the process of developing our business we are thinking of selecting a local and paying for their training in order to get a trustworthy and reliable person that fits our business model, though in reality my friend will be the real guide as his English is excellent and he has worked with foreigners for many years.

So, to the Russian tour agents. Hire a Thai national with the license to sit on the bus with your Russian 'interpreter' posing as a tourist, problem solved. As with all things red tape, the greater the complexity, the easier it is to find a loop hole. After all, that's the bread and butter for all the legal firms offering visa services etc that advertise on this very website.

Edited January 29, 2013 by chrisrazz

[RisqEM]

The Russian business owners should organize their own strike…protest the Thais and note their cheating ways.

Would be hilarious!

[animatic]

This is now ' high profile' so there will be a general crack down this winter/spring.

Anytime a farang is seen doing a job some one will drop a baht in a phone and

try to remove the competition, even if they have no ability to do the job,

they feel entitled to the job.

So folks, carry your work permit or at least up to date copies if you are on the job.

[Tboy928]

"The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out – but they also asked officials to check the legality of the businesses."

Once again the Phuket taxi and tuktuk mafia can do what they want, and once again the Phuket authorities bow to their outrageous demands.

Anyone remember when the Phuket taxi and tuktuk mafia with the help of the Phuket authorities illegally forced THAI tour operators to hand over their customers from cruise ships and american warships. I am surprised the Phuket taxi and tuktuk mafia don't just stand outside one of the local banks and ask for the money in the vault. I am sure the Phuket authorities will show up and arrange some kind of settlement whereby the bank only has to give them half the money in the vault!

Phuket authorities and the taxi/tuktuk mafia are a disgrace to the human race!

Right, they human trash , greedy like hell , and do not care if tourist come back or not !! i tell all my guest ,DO not take them, take normal taxi if find or taxibike if can. to see a meter taxi in Patong is more rear than to se a Elephant in the street.

[billydwa]

Quit complaining about the Thai way. If you do not like it leave.

[OldeBellPedr]

According to Thai law, no foreigners are allowed to work as tour guides in Thailand whether they have a work permit or not. But tour companies in the islands desperately need Russian speaking guides because they have entire boatloads of Russian customers booking daily tours. The majority of the Russian visitors speak very limited English (and not many Thais are fluent in Russian) so many of these companies rely on Russians to lead tours. This could be big problems for the tour companies, which are mainly owned by well-meaning Thais. Personally I think the law that says foreigners can't be tour guides is dumb.

not many Thais are fluent in English either!

[wolf5370]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

I suppose these greedy morons also want the Russian tourists who pay their rip off charges out as well? Idiots.

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. I would imagine some of this money makes its way back to Phuket. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

I was thinking the same about Thai businesses in the US.. (mostly restaurants) (some tour operators). I hear about 25 percent of the Thai people who work there don't have a work visa or their visa has expired and they are in the US illegally. What would happen if the US, England, Australia and those other countries closed those Thai businesses down? Would that make those taxi drivers in Phuket happy? My guess these protestors have never been outside Thailand and really don't give a shit about anybody but themselves..

I used to own a Thai restuarant in the Uk and hired Thais. This is going back a little over 15 years ago. Many were students that are legally allowed to work in the UK if they have stident visas (and temporary NI cards they get witha quick visit to the local job centre). All completely legal and easy. We did have a chef though that was very good that had over stayed his student visa by 7 years! About this time they brought a law in that business owners hiring illegals faced a 5000 pound plus 5 year sentence for each and every illegal employee - we had to fire him. We were never checked, but friends in the business had had raids - one even had a regular kitchen worker that was illegal but luckily was out shopping for stock when they raided! It is just too dangerous to hire illegals - and not realy worth it as there are a plethra of Thai students all across the UK - certainly with respect to catering anyway. However, they also make it much easier to do it legally (and pay taxes and NI for them) there - not so here, where red tape and obstacles are in place (this is not unusaul for any banana repilic styled place - like Thailand - more hurdles means more opportunities for bribes and fees and even 'specialist' agencies - In Ethiopia it costs four years average wages and at least a year to start a company - unless bribes or connections expedite it - this is what happens when Governemnt care nothing for the ecconomy only lining their own pockets).

[Jayroo]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

I suppose these greedy morons also want the Russian tourists who pay their rip off charges out as well? Idiots.

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. I would imagine some of this money makes its way back to Phuket. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

If they close down all the Russian companies, then I suspect that all the Russian tourists will disappear as well.

and the problem is? this sounds great to me.

[Jayroo]

Can't they get the Russian business out of walking street?

and what is your problem with russian business on walking street?

they suck, as they are very rude, over-priced, aggressive, and run buy abhorrent, anti social people that most likely funded by the russian mafia.

[Jayroo]

How about an immedeate crack down on meter taxis working illegally and not using their meters

Thankyou!

[flamesfan]

Well...a big part of the problem is how difficult it is to form a company and or obtain a work permit.

Because of the "Thai Way" of doing things many foreigners simply take the chance and operate a business or work illegally while knowing that something can be "arranged" if and when they are arrested.

If the means of getting a work permit and or forming a company was not so dam_n frustrating and bureaucratic and considerably costly then less foreigners would be operating a business illegally or working illegally.

Meantime, like another person pointed out...this will involve some cash payments made to the police to smooth things out...as always.

Better than kicking everyone out of town and or throwing them in jail.

You have hit the nail.........smack in the middle.

I operate a business in Chiang Mai, and i followed all the laws as required and yes it is not the cheapest ways but it prevents any major problems in the future. Work permits should be mandatory for all foreigners working in Thailand as I have. There are too many people thinking this is easy street!! Wake up! This is not our country so follow their rules! Thailand is what it is, a country engulfed by corruption. Just do not get caught up in it!!

[hgma]

It's not complicated at all. Just arrest all the illegal workers and businesses. Problem solved.

Phuket might well be a deserted place.

Edited January 29, 2013 by hgma

[GoodThaiGirl]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

I have a hard time believing any of this. Russia is an extremely dangerous place for dark-skin foreigners. Mobs of skinhead gangs attack Asians, Indians, Africans, Arabs and just about anyone who appears non-white on a daily basis in broad daylight. Most of the time they get away with murder and/or a small slap on the wrist. Knowing how most Thais love their country dearly, I doubt any are going to the cold, un-hospitable and dangerous Russia.

have you been to russia and witnessed that?

if true, the same happens in thailand. how many foreigners get nabbed and beat up? I see almost everyday at the bumrungrad and camilian foreigners with totally beat up legs and face.

that's not an excuse to defend mafia. what needs to be done is to make better laws about transportation, over charging, and immigrant workers.

why not make a law according to countries?

for example, Thais get a 90 days Visa visa on arrival to go to Brazil, how nice? same for Brazilians in thailand...

BUT, americans need visa to go to Brazil.

see, why not do the same with work permits? if Thais can work freely in Russia, why not let Russians work "more" freely in Thailand?

just a fair-fair game.

I am Thai.

I do speak very good Russian.

I have been to russia and many countries in Europe, of course not only as a tourist but a long term visitor without making money and being a **rik in the country.

To be honest I dont like "Too Relaxing" laws in Thailand as they make things not organized and clean like those call themselves "developed countries".

but common guys

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THAILAND to become the country where you coming from????

Well, I dont mind to put a bit of nonsense laws like in England or raise more TAX or let the government make money from gun like the US... but let's

not turn this country to be RUSSIA as those Russians and russian businesses and other stupid expats do.

THAILAND is THAILAND and there is NO LAND like THAILAND.

If you want to change please respect and ask the locals if they want to.

or if you CHOOSE this land to spend the rest of your peaceful life....just GET ON WITH IT. : )

[Whidbeyboy]

What if the foreigners made a protest and complained about the mafia taxi drivers, tuk-tuk and song-teaos that charge exuberating ripped off amounts?

I'm not saying that I approve the illegal workers, but it's not honest thai workers protesting, it's the mafia taxi that are protesting, they are dishonest, over charge, and many are cheaters...

The russians might be overtaking the business because they charge competitive price. Those dishonest taxi drivers don't like competitive markets, they wanna be mafia monopoly and charge as much as they want, you take a taxi or walk!

So much for the free market. It all comes down to people who think they are mking less money due to the competition. In the states the person that makes the most money is the one that people trust and takes care of thier customers. This may be hard for many Taxi drivers from what I read all the time. My wife won;t even take a taxi at night as to worry about being assaulted by one. If that happened in the states they would lose thier job in a New York second. It's just not heard of here.

[Whidbeyboy]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

I have a hard time believing any of this. Russia is an extremely dangerous place for dark-skin foreigners. Mobs of skinhead gangs attack Asians, Indians, Africans, Arabs and just about anyone who appears non-white on a daily basis in broad daylight. Most of the time they get away with murder and/or a small slap on the wrist. Knowing how most Thais love their country dearly, I doubt any are going to the cold, un-hospitable and dangerous Russia.

have you been to russia and witnessed that?

if true, the same happens in thailand. how many foreigners get nabbed and beat up? I see almost everyday at the bumrungrad and camilian foreigners with totally beat up legs and face.

that's not an excuse to defend mafia. what needs to be done is to make better laws about transportation, over charging, and immigrant workers.

why not make a law according to countries?

for example, Thais get a 90 days Visa visa on arrival to go to Brazil, how nice? same for Brazilians in thailand...

BUT, americans need visa to go to Brazil.

see, why not do the same with work permits? if Thais can work freely in Russia, why not let Russians work "more" freely in Thailand?

just a fair-fair game.

I am Thai.

I do speak very good Russian.

I have been to russia and many countries in Europe, of course not only as a tourist but a long term visitor without making money and being a **rik in the country.

To be honest I dont like "Too Relaxing" laws in Thailand as they make things not organized and clean like those call themselves "developed countries".

but common guys

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THAILAND to become the country where you coming from????

Well, I dont mind to put a bit of nonsense laws like in England or raise more TAX or let the government make money from gun like the US... but let's

not turn this country to be RUSSIA as those Russians and russian businesses and other stupid expats do.

THAILAND is THAILAND and there is NO LAND like THAILAND.

If you want to change please respect and ask the locals if they want to.

or if you CHOOSE this land to spend the rest of your peaceful life....just GET ON WITH IT. : )

Many people move from one counrty to another and will establish an area they are known for, llike little China, or little Russia. If you think Thailand will become Russia you are seriously ignorant. We have millions of Mexicans in America, but it is still America. That can never change, nor will Thailand.

[MAJIC]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

I suppose these greedy morons also want the Russian tourists who pay their rip off charges out as well? Idiots.

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. I would imagine some of this money makes its way back to Phuket. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

If they close down all the Russian companies, then I suspect that all the Russian tourists will disappear as well. They protesters haven't though this one through. If the Russian companies can't work in Phuket, they will work somewhere else, and take the tourists with them. But there probably needs to be some sort of crackdown on illegal workers.

I doubt the Russians are taking Thai jobs,unless there are a surplus of Russian speaking Thais seeking work in the Tourist industry?

[HeavyDrinker]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

I have a hard time believing any of this. Russia is an extremely dangerous place for dark-skin foreigners. Mobs of skinhead gangs attack Asians, Indians, Africans, Arabs and just about anyone who appears non-white on a daily basis in broad daylight. Most of the time they get away with murder and/or a small slap on the wrist. Knowing how most Thais love their country dearly, I doubt any are going to the cold, un-hospitable and dangerous Russia.

have you been to russia and witnessed that?

if true, the same happens in thailand. how many foreigners get nabbed and beat up? I see almost everyday at the bumrungrad and camilian foreigners with totally beat up legs and face.

that's not an excuse to defend mafia. what needs to be done is to make better laws about transportation, over charging, and immigrant workers.

why not make a law according to countries?

for example, Thais get a 90 days Visa visa on arrival to go to Brazil, how nice? same for Brazilians in thailand...

BUT, americans need visa to go to Brazil.

see, why not do the same with work permits? if Thais can work freely in Russia, why not let Russians work "more" freely in Thailand?

just a fair-fair game.

I am Thai.

I do speak very good Russian.

I have been to russia and many countries in Europe, of course not only as a tourist but a long term visitor without making money and being a **rik in the country.

To be honest I dont like "Too Relaxing" laws in Thailand as they make things not organized and clean like those call themselves "developed countries".

but common guys

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO CHANGE THAILAND to become the country where you coming from????

Well, I dont mind to put a bit of nonsense laws like in England or raise more TAX or let the government make money from gun like the US... but let's

not turn this country to be RUSSIA as those Russians and russian businesses and other stupid expats do.

THAILAND is THAILAND and there is NO LAND like THAILAND.

If you want to change please respect and ask the locals if they want to.

or if you CHOOSE this land to spend the rest of your peaceful life....just GET ON WITH IT. : )

LOL!

[khunsiam]

if Thais can work freely in Russia

No, they can't. It must be said that getting a work permit in Russia is a nightmare.

For god sake, who wants to work in Russia?? I got some ideas what to do with that continent but surely that will be deleted..

a bunch of entertainers from the Ladyboy show in Lamai (Samui) went over there for a tour a few years ago, the whole thing set up by a belgian Samui expat, quite an experience.

[3SoiDogNight]

They come to New Zealand, to my city, where winters get down to 0 and summers rarely go above 23 or 24. They work for restaurant owners, typically always Thai, who pay them under the table (tax evasion), pay them irregularly and scam them out of hours work - their own countrymen. There are hundreds of restaurants in Auckland, the largest city alone.

If there shall be a war on Russians, well, it may be the Aussies next, or maybe the Germans.. maybe Mr. Ma-an will request a ban on Brastwurst sausages as Thai Sai Oua sausages which are local are losing demand due to the quality of the German sausages..

The market is either open (for investors and workers alike) or it is closed and xenophobic, you cant have both.

Russia is an extremely dangerous place for dark-skin foreigners.

There is a certain degree of xenophobia in Russia, true, but it is mostly directed towards those who are perceived as potential danger by the Russian society: massive low-class labour immigration from certain Central Asian countries and people from the Northern Caucasus with their clan mentality. I've never witnessed any aggression towards S-E Asians. I traveled around Russia with my Thai friend for 4 weeks about an year ago and encountered no instances of phobia or aggression based on his ethnicity.

Saying 'Russia is an extremely dangerous place for dark-skin foreigners' is simply untrue.

I've just given you 1st hand personal experience as a tourist which is backed up by every news outlet in the world including Russia's very own Russia Today news along with BBC, Al Jezzera, CNN, FOX, NBC and many other publications. There is no denying it and my comments are very true. Perhaps you should read up on this before being so quick to deny the problem. Even my friends that work for Thai Airways don't venture out in to Moscow on their flights to Moscow. Many upstanding people such as shop owners, tourist, diplomats and even a 9 year old girl have been stabbed to death by Russian skinhead gangs and walked after seeing a judge. Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Thais have been attacked frequently in Russia.

Regardless, none of this is the main point of the topic. I just simply had to correct someone and that one Thai business that was being showcased in Russia certainly has connections and is protected. That is the exception, not the rule.

The crooked taxi driver that wants an extra 200 baht pales in comparison to the problems foreigners face in Russia.

As far Thais in New Zealand, your country is very safe unlike Russia.

I fully support Thailand's efforts to crack down on these Russian 'businesses'.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many farangs that come to Thailand have this over idealistic view of 'how things should be' when you're nothing more than a guest here in Thailand. If some Thais want to be corrupt here in their homeland, that is their business. Poke your nose in your own business. There is not a single perfect nation on this planet. My home country (United States) is FAR from perfect so I'm not at liberty to judge Thailand's imperfections and none of you other farangs who perpetually bellyache are at liberty to judge Thailand either because I know dam_n well your home countries have serious issues as well.

Edited January 29, 2013 by 3SoiDogNight

[Thai at Heart]

Quit complaining about the Thai way. If you do not like it leave.

Oh billy, that is just so constructive.

Will you be around to turn our the lights say in phuket?

[diehard60]

This is not just in phuket. I think you would find it many (if not all) parts of the country. I have worked here for 20 years as a teacher and always have had to have the CORRECT documents. All these scum that don't have it should be thrown out of the country. Simple.

[saroq]

Every country has the right to protect its citizen from foreigners working illegally and from foreign businesses that operate illegally. But a cynical person would say that the tuk tuk drivers are really trying to drive out people who provide a service and operate a business which prevents them from getting their cut of the scams.

Edited January 29, 2013 by saroq

[Thai at Heart]

Every country has the right to protect its citizen from foreigners working illegally and from foreign businesses that operate illegally. But a cynical person would say that the tuk tuk drivers are really trying to drive out people who provide a service and operate a business which prevents them from getting their cut of the scams.

Then they can start making sure all the domestic businesses are operating completely legally too, right?

[Globeman]

The Thai protestors were not concerned about whether the Russians were operating legally or not – they just wanted them out

I suppose these greedy morons also want the Russian tourists who pay their rip off charges out as well? Idiots.

There are a surprising number of Thai businesses including restaurants etc operating in Russia. I would imagine some of this money makes its way back to Phuket. How about if the Russians decide to kick out all the hardworking Thais in Russia in retaliation because they want them out?

Third world mentality at its worst.

If they close down all the Russian companies, then I suspect that all the Russian tourists will disappear as well. They protesters haven't though this one through. If the Russian companies can't work in Phuket, they will work somewhere else, and take the tourists with them. But there probably needs to be some sort of crackdown on illegal workers.

And a revamping of work permit qualifications - as in make it a little easier and less arbitrary - so people aren't tempted to skip the work permit process. Show me a case where a Russian illegal worker is taking a job from a Thai... i ran a business here for years with three illegal farangs working for me. Though they were essential to the business making money (and for several reasons could not be replaced by Thais), I had to take the risk. And this is the point many miss with their simplistic solutions - Thais would have cost me half as much, and I wouldn't have hired them instead if they were able to do the job (advanced language skills being a precondition)... but the draconian paranoid work permit rules made it impossible for me to legally hire any more foreigners besides myself.

[metisdead]

Posts containing vulgarities and profanities have been removed.

[noitom]

Before Thais shoot themselves in the foot and run a "Thai style crackdown," they should think through the great tourist service that these Russian speakers provide. It would be typical of Thais to stage a phony crackdown on these "illegals" and it would be typical of the newspaper to run the propaganda on it. Naturally, the Thais would be flabbergasted when the Russians started complaining that The Thai tour services had no Russian speakers. Then they would be scurrying about, promising to "upgrade" Russian language studies. What a preposterous circus this is. Thailand, the endless source of the gang who couldn't shoot straight stories.

[rattler]

The more I read the more I dislike Thai "culture" like most things here its just an illusion with a seedy greedy selfish vicious underbelly.

Edited January 30, 2013 by rattler

[rfukata]

"Russian businesses who are, they say, undercutting the market and taking business from locals."

I think the Russian business's are charging normal prices/fares and protecting their interest, its the locals who fleece the tourists in

droves.

[Trentham]

There are more Illegal businesses than illegal workers, First close near all the boy/girl bars, tip of the iceberg--for prostitution is illegal for starters. Who comes out with these statements-- walking street was mentioned, european go go girls, selling themselves, enough said, boring all this illegal rubbish, Most things here are illegal -or are run on similar lines.

Gogos are not illegal and prostitution does not take place in gogo bars.

Prostitution takes place everywhere in Thailand

[Somtamnication]

This the one and ONLY time I will jump on the tuk tuk and taxi mafia´s bandwagon and commend them.

I have had to deal with nothing but rude, drunk, angry Russians at my workplace. They have no manners, are very loud and rude to my staff for no reason other than to either not get an answer they want or just simply newbies at travelling around the world and not knowing how to talk to locals here.

Never mind that Thai staff know but basic tourism English. When the Russians start speaking, not even I can undersand what the hell they are saying, particularly over their top of the lungs English.

Case in point: Their room has two bars out of three for wifi signals. All can connect, but they want 3 bars. Couple on both sides of their room? 2 bars on the wifi signal. I knocked on their rooms to investigate if it was something worse. Both couples apologized for "disturbing us". "No, no, you are not disturbing, we just want to see if you too are having wifi problems". All wonderful people.

The Russians? "Your f,,,,,,,ing wifi no good. In Russia wifi better. Fire your staff. Their English bad very. They not listen, not like to work with hotel". Assh0les!